Great Michael Vick Column (1 Viewer)

[Smack Tripper]

I usually hate Lupica, but this was a home run from him, and certainly out of character, he's usually overly and endlessly critical of "thug" athletes. Even he can see the BS of this whole deal. From today's NY Daily News:

NFL shows its got a double standard for Michael VickSunday, March 29th 2009, 2:07 AM Ernst/Getty Michael VickCommissioner Roger Goodell says that Mike Vick must show remorse if he wants to play again. Is Goodell kidding? This is the NFL. There isn't a rogue's gallery like it in all of professional sports. Pacman Jones was full of remorse, too. How did that work out for everybody?Goodell may not want Vick back in his league, and who knows if there is an owner and a general manager willing to take a chance on Vick. But Vick is about finished doing his time. He has lost most of his money and two years out of his career for what was a truly hideous crime.Now he has either changed or he hasn't. And maybe if you do something like Vick did, if you allow things such as dogfighting and torturing dogs to happen, then there is some kind of black spot on your heart that maybe never goes away.But an on-demand act of contrition is for show and nothing else. Maybe the other thing that Vick lost in prison was his talent. But he doesn't have to say anything now, or bow and scrape. He can either play or he can't. He will get a chance to earn a living in Goodell's league or he won't. Somebody will give him a chance or he won't ever get a second chance, although even Mike Tyson got a second chance when he got out of prison.According to Goodell, though, Vick doesn't just have to answer to the law of the land, he still has to answer to a much higher authority: the National Football League.You wonder how much remorse will be enough, and if it will be as much remorse as Donte Stallworth of the Browns will have to show if it turns out he was over the legal limit for alcohol two weeks ago when the car he was driving at 7 in the morning struck and killed a 59-year-old man named Mario Reyes on the MacArthur Causeway in Miami.Plaxico Burress carried a loaded and unlicensed handgun into a Manhattan nightclub last season and was lucky he shot only himself when the gun went off after he'd had a few, and now we read this past week that despite the toughest gun laws in the country that there may be a plea bargain in the works. Though Mike Bloomberg, our mayor for life, said at the time of the incident that it would be a "mockery of the law" if Burress wasn't prosecuted as big as he could be under New York laws for which Bloomberg fought mightily.Maybe there should be a sliding scale of NFL remorse, depending on the crime and how bad the crime is for business.This is no defense of what Mike Vick did, or a demand for the New York Jets or anybody else to give him a job. The crimes to which he pleaded guilty and did his two years are permanently one of the dark corners of all pro football history. The images will stay with him the rest of his life and the rest of his career if he is allowed to have one. His fall from athletic grace truly is Tyson-like. Now the Dept. of Labor wants to talk to him about $1.3 million he may or may not have illegally withdrawn from the pension fund of a company he started.Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.But he has done his time. And you know what? Eventually somebody is going to sign him, because he is still young and it is impossible to believe that two years away from football have robbed him of all his talent. There was talk that the 49ers were interested and that the Bears might be interested. They should at least be curious about what Vick still has, the way the Jets should be.You take on a lot if you even give Vick a tryout. In terrible economic times, when Goodell is talking about extending the season as a way to make sure the money keeps rolling in, the team that finally does sign Vick is going to have to show some rope, because you get the idea that PETA thinks Vick should never be allowed to take another snap.Only that's not the way it works in sports, or in this country, for that matter. Think about it: If this were the old days and Vick were a baseball player, George Steinbrenner would have been first in line to give him a second chance.

 

[Adebisi]

This is a terrible article on several levels. Lupica does nothing to help Vick here.

 

[Avery]

But an on-demand act of contrition is for show and nothing else. Maybe the other thing that Vick lost in prison was his talent. But he doesn't have to say anything now, or bow and scrape. He can either play or he can't. He will get a chance to earn a living in Goodell's league or he won't. Somebody will give him a chance or he won't ever get a second chance, although even Mike Tyson got a second chance when he got out of prison.

Isn't an "on-demand act of contrition" always for show? Athlete's do it all the time. Read an apology written by their publicist saying how sorry they are for doing whatever jackassery they did. Clearly, it's the off-season for NY sports if this is getting Lupica up in arms.Also the comparison the Stallworth and Burress is misplaced. If either of them play in the NFL again, I'm sure we will see numerous "on-demand acts of contrition" from both of them. BFD.

 

[TwinTurbo]

His fall from athletic grace truly is Tyson-like.

That about sums it up. And he will get a second chance, just like Tyson.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Lupica's absolutely right. This isn't what happened to the last guy who was caught red-handed and found to be operating and funding an interstate dogfighting operation where he confessed to the actual killing of animals essentially with his bare hands and lied to the face of the commissioner about it.

 

[Da Guru]

Just like any business the NFL can do whatever they want. If they feel that Vick would not be a good fit back in the league that is their call.

Vick can play football in Canada and earn a nice living.

 

[Ozymandias]

Just like any business the NFL can do whatever they want. If they feel that Vick would not be a good fit back in the league that is their call.Vick can play football in Canada and earn a nice living.

Canada won't let felons in.Maybe Australia?

 

[VTjkru]

Just like any business the NFL can do whatever they want. If they feel that Vick would not be a good fit back in the league that is their call.Vick can play football in Canada and earn a nice living.

I've said that many times in other Vick threads but there's a handful of people who feel as if the NFL is the only way to make living out there for anyone. If Vick can't play in the NFL he may as well not even live anymore.

 

[Stealthycat]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.Vick served his time. If he can sign on to an NFL team, he has every right to do so without having a bunch of Goodell and NFL stipulations. Let the NFL team signing him and the contract dictate that IMO

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.Vick served his time. If he can sign on to an NFL team, he has every right to do so without having a bunch of Goodell and NFL stipulations. Let the NFL team signing him and the contract dictate that IMO

How many guys with domestic violence charges are good enough for this league too?

 

[bcr8f]

"if you allow things such as dogfighting and torturing dogs to happen"

He lost credibility right there. He masterminded it he didn't just allow it and last I heard didn't do any time for it. Probation(?) give me a break.

He deserves at minimum a 1 year suspension for cruelty.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Didn't see a double standard, just a reall tough one. No problem with that.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

"if you allow things such as dogfighting and torturing dogs to happen"He lost credibility right there. He masterminded it he didn't just allow it and last I heard didn't do any time for it. Probation(?) give me a break. He deserves at minimum a 1 year suspension for cruelty.

Yeah, but I mean, guys beat their wives and girlfriends? Which is crueler in the scheme of things?

 

[Jason Wood]

"if you allow things such as dogfighting and torturing dogs to happen"He lost credibility right there. He masterminded it he didn't just allow it and last I heard didn't do any time for it. Probation(?) give me a break. He deserves at minimum a 1 year suspension for cruelty.

Yeah, but I mean, guys beat their wives and girlfriends? Which is crueler in the scheme of things?

I'm never one to run from saying the NFL is full of disreputable people and, therefore, we really shouldn't confuse our appreciation for their on field talents with thinking they're great human beings.That said, the thing Goodell has to work with vis-a-vis Vick that he usually doesn't with other players arrested for things is a conviction. And a Federal one at that. We can't dismiss the difference. Goodell, as an attorney, I'm sure appreciates the legal system and the fact that someone convicted of a Federal crime and sent to Leavenworth is different than someone arrested who subsequently has the charged dropped or is acquitted.

 

[bcr8f]

"if you allow things such as dogfighting and torturing dogs to happen"

He lost credibility right there. He masterminded it he didn't just allow it and last I heard didn't do any time for it. Probation(?) give me a break.

He deserves at minimum a 1 year suspension for cruelty.

Yeah, but I mean, guys beat their wives and girlfriends? Which is crueler in the scheme of things?

I'm never one to run from saying the NFL is full of disreputable people and, therefore, we really shouldn't confuse our appreciation for their on field talents with thinking they're great human beings.That said, the thing Goodell has to work with vis-a-vis Vick that he usually doesn't with other players arrested for things is a conviction. And a Federal one at that. We can't dismiss the difference. Goodell, as an attorney, I'm sure appreciates the legal system and the fact that someone convicted of a Federal crime and sent to Leavenworth is different than someone arrested who subsequently has the charged dropped or is acquitted.

Very true and he doesn't want to ban Michael from playing. That could open a lot of lawsuits.To NY/NJMFDIVER

Which is more cruel attaching electrodes to an animal and hosing them down while shocking them or hitting a woman?

I'm not one to say which one is worse but although I hate men hitting women I would say the torture. If the woman is tortured I would change my vote, but torture is more cruel that just hitting a person. Hitting a child, child pornography are worse than both in my opinion.

Sorry but torturing an animal is cruel no matter how you try and rationalize it. According to the law killing an animal isn't cruel, but starving or beating them is. Electrocuting them to intimidate other dogs(what he was doing) certainly is.

And like Jason Wood said he was jailed for a felony.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.

He also brutally murdered some dogs. Some may say that's hideous, even if not on the level of rape or the murder of a human. Apparently Lupica thinks those acts were hideous and you don't. Not saying he's right and you're wrong as to whether Vick's actions were hideous or not, but I don't think one should question whether anyone (Lupica) can think that what Vick did was hideous.

 

[Keepers]

For most of this article I was trying to figure out whether it was for or against Vick playing again in the NFL.

 

[brednbuddah]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

 

[Jason Wood]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

Who says he won't get his chance? And why should Goodell give this a second thought until Vick is actually a free man?

 

[bcr8f]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

Who says he won't get his chance? And why should Goodell give this a second thought until Vick is actually a free man?

He'll meet with Goodell after his time is served and will need to convince him he belongs in the NFL.He isn't banned.

 

[brednbuddah]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

Who says he won't get his chance? And why should Goodell give this a second thought until Vick is actually a free man?

I´m not saying he won´t get a second chance, just that he´s deserving of one (just not on my team though )I don´t know what Lupica is thinking... There´s no way I want to see Vick in a Jets uniform.

 

[Jason Wood]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

Who says he won't get his chance? And why should Goodell give this a second thought until Vick is actually a free man?

He'll meet with Goodell after his time is served and will need to convince him he belongs in the NFL.He isn't banned.

That's exactly my point. I'm not sure what Lupica's point is in the first place. Vick isn't even at the point yet where he can start going through the process of figuring out his place in the NFL. Lupica speaks as though he's tried to get back and Goodell is stonewalling him. I don't see that as an accurate portrayal of the facts in any form, do you?

 

[bcr8f]

Vick has done things to himself that are dumber than a bag of hammers, and allowed unspeakable cruelty to be visited on defenseless animals. The pictures we saw of those dogs are not the type that go away - whether you are a dog-lover and dog-owner or not - now that Vick has done his time and wants to come back. These were bums running that ring, and Vick was one of them and maybe he can't ever pay enough of a price, including having to file for Chapter 11 last year, to suit you. Fine with me.

But he has done his time.

I am a dog lover, I´ve owned dogs most of my life. I´ve read the ¨Vick Dogs¨ article in SI and seen the special on television. It was disturbing to say the least, however, the man has served his time. He´s lost millions and will be viewed as a monster by most of society long after football is done with him. I believe he´s deserving of a second chance in the NFL.

Who says he won't get his chance? And why should Goodell give this a second thought until Vick is actually a free man?

He'll meet with Goodell after his time is served and will need to convince him he belongs in the NFL.

He isn't banned.

That's exactly my point. I'm not sure what Lupica's point is in the first place. Vick isn't even at the point yet where he can start going through the process of figuring out his place in the NFL. Lupica speaks as though he's tried to get back and Goodell is stonewalling him. I don't see that as an accurate portrayal of the facts in any form, do you?

I don't either. Lupica seems to want an early indication of whether he can play again but he has to finish one step before he can start another.One step at a time is how I see it.

 

[GregR_2]

...

NFL shows its got a double standard for Michael VickSunday, March 29th 2009, 2:07 AM ...Maybe there should be a sliding scale of NFL remorse, depending on the crime and how bad the crime is for business....

Reading this line was what convinced me the writer just doesn't get it. Of course this, and any player discipline matter, is all about how bad what the player has done is for business. The same as it is when any other company that isn't the NFL disciplines one of their employees.NFL players may get paid to perform athletically, but they are also getting paid to sell their employers product. If the NFL determines that having Mike Vick in the league is worse for their business than having someone who committed domestic violence, then we should expect they are going to behave accordingly. If having a 10+ time repeat offender but never convicted Pacman Jones in the league draws more negativity to the league than does ramming your car into a vehicle holding your wife and child, the league is going to respond to how it affected their business rather than by what sentence the justice system should have given them.I'll agree that Vick is being judged by a different standard than other NFL offenders have. Not that his offense wasn't hideous, but there are others just as hideous who were treated different. But it is the public and not the NFL that is employing that different standard. The NFL doesn't exist to be a second justice system, and despite all the complaints we hear, that isn't what they try to do. They are holding their players accountable for how their actions affect their clients perception of their business, the same as any other company does.

 

[Stealthycat]

I'm sure he will have a probabtion of some kind at a legal level - but if the man wants to work (NFL is his job) and an employer (NFL Team) wants to hire him? Thats between them, their contract etc.

Vick did his time. Let it go.

As for cruel? How many millions of animals are run over and maimed by automobiles every year? How many animals are left or tosses aside because their owners abandoned them or allowed their pets to reproduce (didn't spay or neuter them)? How many animals die every year at the paws of your pets?

"cruelty" to animals is perspective ....... and I agree fighting dogs is wrong, and Vick lost almost everything. His time is done - he's lost more than most here can imagine ...... let him rebuild it if he can.

let it go

 

[GregR_2]

I'm sure he will have a probabtion of some kind at a legal level - but if the man wants to work (NFL is his job) and an employer (NFL Team) wants to hire him? Thats between them, their contract etc.Vick did his time. Let it go.As for cruel? How many millions of animals are run over and maimed by automobiles every year? How many animals are left or tosses aside because their owners abandoned them or allowed their pets to reproduce (didn't spay or neuter them)? How many animals die every year at the paws of your pets?"cruelty" to animals is perspective ....... and I agree fighting dogs is wrong, and Vick lost almost everything. His time is done - he's lost more than most here can imagine ...... let him rebuild it if he can.let it go

Accidentally running over an animal with a car is on par with choosing to torture an animal to death? That my dog that was kept in my yard got ahold of a bird and killed it... is an act equally heinous to intentionally electrocuting a dog, or slamming it into the ground repeatedly until it died, or sicking it on another dog with the intent that it kill the other dog?It's one thing to say the guy did his time and should be allowed to work. But you aren't making any points at all with the rest of your post trying to paint what he did as being innocent or commonplace.

 

[bcr8f]

I'm sure he will have a probabtion of some kind at a legal level - but if the man wants to work (NFL is his job) and an employer (NFL Team) wants to hire him? Thats between them, their contract etc.

Vick did his time. Let it go.

As for cruel? How many millions of animals are run over and maimed by automobiles every year? How many animals are left or tosses aside because their owners abandoned them or allowed their pets to reproduce (didn't spay or neuter them)? How many animals die every year at the paws of your pets?

"cruelty" to animals is perspective ....... and I agree fighting dogs is wrong, and Vick lost almost everything. His time is done - he's lost more than most here can imagine ...... let him rebuild it if he can.

let it go

No it isn't. It's against the law. There are specific laws on what you cannot do. Accidentally hitting an animal with your car is far different than what Vick did. Accident are not premeditated killing. There are laws in this country.In addition he hasn't done his time yet. In addition he's on probation for the state charges. The federal charges were largely about gambling, not dog killing.

I'll let it go when he finishes serving his time and convinces us it won't happen again.

 

[Phurfur]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.Vick served his time. If he can sign on to an NFL team, he has every right to do so without having a bunch of Goodell and NFL stipulations. Let the NFL team signing him and the contract dictate that IMO

I guess you have never seen a real staged dog fight.

 

[Adebisi]

According to Gil Brandt's column (according to SI's Truth & Rumors), Vick's bankruptcy plan has him expecting to make $10 million a year. I think he'll be lucky to see a quarter of that, at least initially.

Also, Brandt thinks he has a better shot at making team at another position, such as RB.

 

[Stealthycat]

Accidentally running over an animal with a car is on par with choosing to torture an animal to death?

not it isn't and I didn't say it was

That my dog that was kept in my yard got ahold of a bird and killed it... is an act equally heinous to intentionally electrocuting a dog, or slamming it into the ground repeatedly until it died, or sicking it on another dog with the intent that it kill the other dog?

not it isn't and I didn't say it was

But you aren't making any points at all with the rest of your post trying to paint what he did as being innocent or commonplace.

I didn't say that, you did

I guess you have never seen a real staged dog fight.

Not a staged in person one, no. I've seen a lot of dogs fight, and my roosters continually try to kill each other best they can until one totally submits. Again (and maybe ya'll will read it this time instead of skipping over it) Vick was wrong in dog fighting, I'm against it, and #### fighting however to define it like it was in that article?Read CNN today about the 23 year old beheading his sister in front of the police after killing another sister - folks THAT is what can be defined as total evil right there.Vick was wrong, he was involved in dog fighting, he lost his carerr, his money, friends and family, 2 years of his life ..... he's paid far far more than anyone else EVER has of being a convicted dog fighter.Let it go - let the man rebuild his life, he's done everything he could and was asked to so far hasn't he?Let it goJump on the Stallworth train or the other NFL guys pending trial for their evils.Vick? He's done his time

 

[GregR_2]

...

But you aren't making any points at all with the rest of your post trying to paint what he did as being innocent or commonplace.

I didn't say that, you did...

I didn't say you said it. I said you did it.You said animal cruelty to animals is perspective. You listed a lot of common things so they would be compared to what Vick did, and called them cruel. And they all lack the intent to be cruel which is what made Vick's acts so much more despicable than your examples.

If your goal was not to try to make what Vick did seem like it wasn't any more cruel than things that happen commonly, I have no clue why you included it in this conversation. That seemed the clear implication.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

Let it go - let the man rebuild his life, he's done everything he could and was asked to so far hasn't he?Let it goJump on the Stallworth train or the other NFL guys pending trial for their evils.Vick? He's done his time

No one is saying that Vick can't rebuild his life. Vick is free to work at any business that is willing to hire him. That business has to deal with the fallout of a hiring this convicted felon.Shouldn't Vick have some sort of college degree to fall back on? He should be able to move on into the regular business community and get a regular-Joe 9 to 5 job. If not there's always physical labor, or whatever else he is qualified to do. I'm sure he'll be fine in the long run. He just may not be an elite celebrity rich guy.

 

[Adebisi]

I'm not going to let it go.

Personally, I think Michael Vick is a dirtbag and terrible human being. Maybe he's sorry for brutalizing those dogs, but I think it's probably more likely that he's just sorry that he got caught.

Comparing his crimes against animals to other, more horrendous crimes against humans doesn't make what he did any more forgivable. As far as doing "everything he could and was asked to," he hasn't really had a choice in the matter, has he?

I don't want to see someone like Michael Vick succeed and prosper in the NFL, because I don't think he deserves to. I hope no team gives him a shot. If they do (which I'm sure they will), I hope he fails. I hope he picks up the pieces and is able to find peace with himself, but I hope he is forced to find a job in the real world in order to do so.

I don't care if Pacman Jones, Leonard Little, or anyone else has been given numerous chances. I don't think they deserved the opportunities they've had, and just because they got those opportunities anyway, that doesn't mean that Vick deserves a pass.

 

[brednbuddah]

I'm sure he will have a probabtion of some kind at a legal level - but if the man wants to work (NFL is his job) and an employer (NFL Team) wants to hire him? Thats between them, their contract etc.Vick did his time. Let it go.As for cruel? How many millions of animals are run over and maimed by automobiles every year? How many animals are left or tosses aside because their owners abandoned them or allowed their pets to reproduce (didn't spay or neuter them)? How many animals die every year at the paws of your pets?"cruelty" to animals is perspective ....... and I agree fighting dogs is wrong, and Vick lost almost everything. His time is done - he's lost more than most here can imagine ...... let him rebuild it if he can.let it go

I agree that Vick did his time and should be (and most probably will be) granted another opportunity in the NFL. read the article in SI about the Vick dogs. Vick (and his crew) took puppies who weren´t fit for fighting and secured them so that they couldn´t escape and allowed the ¨fighting¨ dogs to tear them to shreds as a method of training... They also secured female dogs to the ground by their necks for breeding purposes so that the ¨fighting¨ dogs could mount the females without incurring any injuries... The fighting dogs that were injured and could no longer fight were destroyed by way of drowning, hanging, shooting... dude, that´s beyond cruel.

 

[Holland Freeze]

This is a terrible article on several levels. Lupica does nothing to help Vick here.

Do you think that was Lupica's goal?

 

[Holland Freeze]

But an on-demand act of contrition is for show and nothing else. Maybe the other thing that Vick lost in prison was his talent. But he doesn't have to say anything now, or bow and scrape. He can either play or he can't. He will get a chance to earn a living in Goodell's league or he won't. Somebody will give him a chance or he won't ever get a second chance, although even Mike Tyson got a second chance when he got out of prison.

Isn't an "on-demand act of contrition" always for show? Athlete's do it all the time.

Is Goodell more concerned about contrition about the dogs or for Vick lieing to him?

 

[Holland Freeze]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.Vick served his time. If he can sign on to an NFL team, he has every right to do so without having a bunch of Goodell and NFL stipulations. Let the NFL team signing him and the contract dictate that IMO

 

[Holland Freeze]

Which is more cruel attaching electrodes to an animal and hosing them down while shocking them or hitting a woman?

Hitting a human man or woman is worse. If I am going to allow sensitivity determine my decision I will opt for the human species over another any day.

 

[omally]

Vick was wrong, he was involved in dog fighting, he lost his carerr, his money, friends and family, 2 years of his life ..... he's paid far far more than anyone else EVER has of being a convicted dog fighter.

Vick didn't lose his family and friends.

 

[omally]

for what was a truly hideous crime.

No, not truly hideous. Murder, rape, manslaughter ...... those are truly hideous. Yes, dog fighting is bad but truly hideous? No.

Wow. What Vick did to those dogs was hideous. It's disturbing that you don't think so.

 

[Phurfur]

Which is more cruel attaching electrodes to an animal and hosing them down while shocking them or hitting a woman?

Hitting a human man or woman is worse. If I am going to allow sensitivity determine my decision I will opt for the human species over another any day.

This is not a multiple choice. What Vick did could only be done by someone who is sub-human.

 

[Despyzer]

If he can sign on to an NFL team, he has every right to do so without having a bunch of Goodell and NFL stipulations.

Are you sure about that? Specifically what right are you referring to here?

 

[Max Power]

Hopefully some of you can answer a few questions I have...

Did Vick ever kill a dog? Did he admit to it or was it eye-witnessed? ( I understand he probably did, but was this ever proven in the courts?)

To my knowledge, Vick was convicted of a felony for interstate gambling. So it would stand to reason that if Goodell wanted to keep him out of the league, He would have to use the gambling charge.

 

[brutha]

"cruelty" to animals is perspective .......

 

[brutha]

If Vick can't play in the NFL he may as well not even live anymore.

Lupica's absolutely right. This isn't what happened to the last guy who was caught red-handed and found to be operating and funding an interstate dogfighting operation where he confessed to the actual killing of animals essentially with his bare hands and lied to the face of the commissioner about it.

lol

Yeah, but I mean, guys beat their wives and girlfriends? Which is crueler in the scheme of things?

so there are worse things a person can do, therefore don't make such a big deal out of this one? lost me on that logic.speaking of which, what did I miss ie "Vick has served his 23 month sentence" didn't it start in Dec 07? what he got a break, or this is some new math?he's a POS who deserves to have some electrodes attached to him and.....any team low enough to sign him I immediately hope loses every game even if it's my beloved jets jets jets.

 

[Holland Freeze]

Which is more cruel attaching electrodes to an animal and hosing them down while shocking them or hitting a woman?

Hitting a human man or woman is worse. If I am going to allow sensitivity determine my decision I will opt for the human species over another any day.

This is not a multiple choice. What Vick did could only be done by someone who is sub-human.

Multiple choice? What Vick did could be done by anyone if...

 

[Holland Freeze]

Hopefully some of you can answer a few questions I have...Did Vick ever kill a dog? Did he admit to it or was it eye-witnessed? ( I understand he probably did, but was this ever proven in the courts?)To my knowledge, Vick was convicted of a felony for interstate gambling. So it would stand to reason that if Goodell wanted to keep him out of the league, He would have to use the gambling charge.

Can't remember for sure now but I thought I read that he participated in the killing.I am still not convinced Goodell isn't more upset about being lied to - but then again I am starting to think he is more ego than substance so I am probably not viewing this as objectively as I should.

 

[GregR_2]

Hopefully some of you can answer a few questions I have...

Did Vick ever kill a dog? Did he admit to it or was it eye-witnessed? ( I understand he probably did, but was this ever proven in the courts?)

To my knowledge, Vick was convicted of a felony for interstate gambling. So it would stand to reason that if Goodell wanted to keep him out of the league, He would have to use the gambling charge.

Vick confessed to it as part of his plea bargain for lessened charges.From an ESPN article about what he admitted to in his plea bargain:

According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions in April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

Both sides agreed that due to aggravating circumstances from the facts of the case -- namely, "the victimization and killing of pit bulls" -- prosecutors would go above the federal sentencing guidelines for the charge, but would recommend a sentence at the low end of the scale following that adjustment. That comes out to a range of a year to 18 months.

...

The case began in April, when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the former Virginia Tech star's Surry County property and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring's gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, disclosing that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not perform well in test fights

 

[GregR_2]

Hopefully some of you can answer a few questions I have...

Did Vick ever kill a dog? Did he admit to it or was it eye-witnessed? ( I understand he probably did, but was this ever proven in the courts?)

To my knowledge, Vick was convicted of a felony for interstate gambling. So it would stand to reason that if Goodell wanted to keep him out of the league, He would have to use the gambling charge.

The NFL is not a pseudo judicial organization that has to base its employee discipline on legal convictions. Nor is any other company most of us have worked at.Any action the NFL takes would be based on labor law and upon anything additional that was collectively bargained by the NFL with the Players Association. In this case, the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy would be what would be followed. I'm not sure if it was collectively bargained with the NFLPA, but it is supported by the NFLPA if nothing else. It starts out with:

All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid "conduct detrimental to the integrity of and the public confidence in the National Football League."

And goes on to say:

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful.

So no, Goodell isn't limited to acting only on convictions. Not unless someone takes the NFL to court and gets a ruling that the policy violates a law, constitutional rights, etc.

 

[bcr8f]

Hopefully some of you can answer a few questions I have...

Did Vick ever kill a dog? Did he admit to it or was it eye-witnessed? ( I understand he probably did, but was this ever proven in the courts?)

To my knowledge, Vick was convicted of a felony for interstate gambling. So it would stand to reason that if Goodell wanted to keep him out of the league, He would have to use the gambling charge.

He admitted to killing several himself in the court statement. Some losers of fights were killed to get the other dogs to fight harder. One was electrocuted (see warrant) while being hosed with water. Others were hanged. It was to intimidate the other dogs.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/foot...ex.html?cnn=yes