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GREAT players who became GREAT coaches - who ya got? (1 Viewer)

moleculo

moleculo

Footballguy
the closest I can think of is Mike Ditka - HoF TE, SB winning coach. I guess his greatness as a coach is debatable.

There are a handfull of mediocre players to become great coaches. There LOTS of poor players (i.e. NCAA D1, no NFL) who became GREAT coaches. There are lots of GREAT players who became poor coaches, but I'm drawing a blank on GREAT players and GREAT coaches.*

Are there any GREAT players who were able translate their knowlege/passion/insight of the game to coaching?

*note: please reserve discussion to the modern era. I'm not talking about Halas here. TIA.

 
Only guy I can think of is **** Jauron. and while he was neither a GREAT player or coach, he is likely on a very short list to be both a Pro Bowler and Coach of the Year.

 
Fritz Pollard and Guy Chamberlin, obviously.

Schottenheimer apparently made a pro bowl with Buffalo, though I don't think that really qualifies him.

Dan Reeves once led the league in touchdowns and was a 2nd-team AP All Pro, though I don't think that qualifies him, either.

Tom Landry was once a first-team AP All Pro defensive back, finished in the top 5 in INTs three times, and led the league in punting yardage three times. I think he actually qualifies.

 
For all of the above, except for maybe Gregg (and he was a good coach but not a great one), the names really don't fit as Great player or Great head coach. This conversation comes up with baseball and it seems like the greatest managers were the scrappy infielders who always learned how to do the little things to stay in the Bigs and then they knew how to teach that to their players when they became the managers.

Often if not always the Greats who becomes managers hold their players up to some impossible standard that they could meet but which almost no one else can.

 
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ImTheScientist said:
Pete Carroll
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He certainly had a great playing career:

After graduation, Carroll tried out for the Honolulu Hawaiians of the World Football League at their training camp in Riverside but did not make the team due to shoulder problems combined with his small size.[6][7] To make ends meet, he found a job selling roofing materials in the Bay Area, but he found he wasn't good at it and soon moved on; it would be his only non-football-related job.
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**** LeBeau and Mike Ditka qualify.

Chuck Noll was a great coach that was a good player. Bill Cowher was a very good coach and decent special teams player. Jeff Fisher too.

 
Godsbrother said:
**** LeBeau and Mike Ditka qualify.

Chuck Noll was a great coach that was a good player. Bill Cowher was a very good coach and decent special teams player. Jeff Fisher too.
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LeBeau is one of the best coordinators in history, but he was a pretty atrocious head coach.

 
Adam Harstad said:
Godsbrother said:
**** LeBeau and Mike Ditka qualify.

Chuck Noll was a great coach that was a good player. Bill Cowher was a very good coach and decent special teams player. Jeff Fisher too.
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LeBeau is one of the best coordinators in history, but he was a pretty atrocious head coach.
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LeBeau is probably the best fit. IMO what he has brought to PIT as a DC wualifies him as a great coach. You dont have to be successful as a gead coach to be a great coach - great coaches could be coordinators or positional coaches, not just HC.

 
KingPrawn said:
Dan Reeves

Raymond Berry
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Good call on Berry, I forgot he coached. He's easily the second-best player mentioned so far in this thread, (behind Ditka). I wouldn't even protest too hard if someone wanted to call him the best, especially given his much better longevity. He wasn't as memorable, but Raymond Berry was named to the NFL's 75th-anniversary team alongside the Mt. Rushmore trio (Rice, Alworth, Hutson). Ditka made the team, too.

 
Adam Harstad said:
KingPrawn said:
Dan Reeves

Raymond Berry
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Good call on Berry, I forgot he coached. He's easily the second-best player mentioned so far in this thread, (behind Ditka). I wouldn't even protest too hard if someone wanted to call him the best, especially given his much better longevity. He wasn't as memorable, but Raymond Berry was named to the NFL's 75th-anniversary team alongside the Mt. Rushmore trio (Rice, Alworth, Hutson). Ditka made the team, too.
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Problem is Reeves was a great coach but not a great player (memorable, talented, yes, but not Great), Berry was a Great player but not a Great coach. He was a good coach, got his team to the SB (against Ditka of course) but not a great one. Ditka was a Great player and arguably was a great coach, though that is open to debate, maybe some would say quite the opposite. He probably should have made 1-2 more SBs, was arguably divisive in his own locker room, and he was an awful coach with the Saints.

 
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7 HoF players have become HC after being inducted: Mike Munchak, Raymond Berry, Mike Ditka, Forrest Gregg, Art Shell and Mike Singletary. Berry, Ditka & Shell are the only ones with a winning record.

 
BobbyLayne said:
7 HoF players have become HC after being inducted: Mike Munchak, Raymond Berry, Mike Ditka, Forrest Gregg, Art Shell and Mike Singletary. Berry, Ditka & Shell are the only ones with a winning record.
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That leaves out Norm Van Brocklin I guess because he made the HOF after being a coach for a while but he's worthy of mention:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/VanBNo0.htm

He never produced any very good teams as a coach.

 
Besides Ditka one guy who really might qualify as both a Great player and a Great coach was HOF'er Joe Schmidt:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SchmJo0.htm

This was the last coach to regularly produce winners at Detroit. His best season was 1970 when a (yes) 10-4 Lions team lost a heartbreaker to the eventual NFC champs Cowboys 5-0. He had a short career, no championships, but again he won in Detroit. His coaching career ended when WC Ford essentially drove him to resignation.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
BobbyLayne said:
7 HoF players have become HC after being inducted: Mike Munchak, Raymond Berry, Mike Ditka, Forrest Gregg, Art Shell and Mike Singletary. Berry, Ditka & Shell are the only ones with a winning record.
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That leaves out Norm Van Brocklin I guess because he made the HOF after being a coach for a while but he's worthy of mention:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/VanBNo0.htm

He never produced any very good teams as a coach.
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LeBeau would be another, right? Same article I got that quote from said "**** LeBeau is one of five men who coached before being inducted into the Hall of Fame since the merger."

Anyway, seems very rare in football.

 
Jim Harbaugh.

Not sure if we can call him a great coach this season, but he did pretty well with Stanford, and got the 49'ers to a Super Bowl.

As a player, He was a first round draft pick who had a very long career.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Besides Ditka one guy who really might qualify as both a Great player and a Great coach was Joe Schmidt:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SchmJo0.htm

This was the last coach to regularly produce winners at Detroit. His best season was 1970 when a (yes) 10-4 Lions team lost a heartbreaker to the eventual NFC champs Cowboys 5-0. He had a short career, no championships, but again he won in Detroit. His coaching career ended when WC Ford essentially drove him to resignation.
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Would be more correct to say he quit because he realized Ford would never fire the bean counter GM, Russ Thomas.By Detroit standards Schmidt was an awesome coach. Winning seasons four straight years, something like 43-35-6 overall.

ETA: I forgot this was one of the few times WCF Sr went public with criticism:

The end result was that Schmidt resigned on January 12, 1973, saying that, "coaching isn't fun anymore." His mood brightened somewhat three weeks later when he was elected to the Hall of Fame, but Schmidt never again coached and spent the next three decades as a manufacturer's representative.

Joe Schmidt's career mark as a coach was 43-35-7. With the exception of Gary Moeller (who coached just seven games, winning four), he is the most recent Lions coach with a winning record.
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Problem is Reeves was a great coach but not a great player (memorable, talented, yes, but not Great), Berry was a Great player but not a Great coach. He was a good coach, got his team to the SB (against Ditka of course) but not a great one. Ditka was a Great player and arguably was a great coach, though that is open to debate, maybe some would say quite the opposite. He probably should have made 1-2 more SBs, was arguably divisive in his own locker room, and he was an awful coach with the Saints.
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I agree, if we're setting thresholds for true greatness (and not merely verygoodness), then unless you want to count some of the player-coaches of the '20s (Guy Chamberlin, Fritz Pollard), the closest hits are going to be Ditka (who clearly qualifies as a player and arguably qualifies as a coach) and Landry (who clearly qualifies as a coach and arguably qualifies as a player).

Edit: and LeBeau, if you want to include assistants.

 
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