Great Solution to Stop "Tanking" in Sports (1 Viewer)

[Johnny Rock]

Reverse Standings

"Teams that do not make the playoffs are ranked based on the number of games they win (or points they accumulate in the NHL) after they are eliminated from playoff contention. The team with the most wins (or points) is then given the top pick in the draft. The team with second-most wins (or points) receives the second pick and so on."

Leagues need to adopt this or something similar. The beauty is the simplicity. I'm not sure why this hasn't gotten more play as it was written in 2012. The piece does point out a few downsides too.

http://www.businessinsider.com/reverse-standings-tanking-2015-4

 

[Dan Lambskin]

So the Eagles get Mariotta and Tampa Bay can draft an offensive guard or something

 

[Cjw_55106]

I personally dont think its as big of an issue as people like to believe it is.

 

[roadkill1292]

It appears to be a pretty big problem in the NBA and NHL this year, though the fanbases in Philadelphia and Buffalo respectively don't seem to mind all that much.

It's an interesting idea. I think Simmons or one of his staffers floated something like it a couple of years ago.

 

[Thunderlips]

Meh. Is it that big of a deal?

BTW, I'm not a big fan of saying what the Sixers are doing is flat out tanking....they're collecting assets.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

not a fan of this idea

 

[Cjw_55106]

So if your team actually stinks and wins 1-2 games after being eliminated (thinking NBA), you'll get a mid round pick? Admittedly, I didn't read the details.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It appears to be a pretty big problem in the NBA and NHL this year, though the fanbases in Philadelphia and Buffalo respectively don't seem to mind all that much.

It's an interesting idea. I think Simmons or one of his staffers floated something like it a couple of years ago.

I'm with cjw. Nobody cares except people who are looking for something to talk/write about.

There's nothing wrong with making a strategic decision to sacrifice some success in the present for greater success down the road. People and businesses do it in every other walk of life and nobody seems to mind. It's not like the coaches and players are trying to lose- that would be a problem. But I almost never see that.

The Sixers plays hard and are actually kind of entertaining considering the lack of talent. Last night they were behind by 33 early in the 4th quarter, on the road, after playing an overtime game Monday night. Wiz went to the bench and the Sixers outplayed them by 18 points over the next 6 minutes, forcing the Wiz to call timeout and re-insert their starters to close it out. If that's what tanking looks like I don't really see the problem.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

 

[roadkill1292]

It appears to be a pretty big problem in the NBA and NHL this year, though the fanbases in Philadelphia and Buffalo respectively don't seem to mind all that much.

It's an interesting idea. I think Simmons or one of his staffers floated something like it a couple of years ago.

I'm with cjw. Nobody cares except people who are looking for something to talk/write about.

There's nothing wrong with making a strategic decision to sacrifice some success in the present for greater success down the road. People and businesses do it in every other walk of life and nobody seems to mind. It's not like the coaches and players are trying to lose- that would be a problem. But I almost never see that.

The Sixers plays hard and are actually kind of entertaining considering the lack of talent. Last night they were behind by 33 early in the 4th quarter, on the road, after playing an overtime game Monday night. Wiz went to the bench and the Sixers outplayed them by 18 points over the next 6 minutes, forcing the Wiz to call timeout and re-insert their starters to close it out. If that's what tanking looks like I don't really see the problem.

Strategic decisions often suck for the people who buy tickets right now. In a just world, a team doing that would get relegated.

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This. Finishing last shouldn't be rewarded. Especially if that was the goal.

Parity is over-RATED.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Seems like a solution looking for a problem. Tanking isn't a big deal at all. At the end of the day, fans of those teams will dictate whether it's acceptable or not.

MLB teams have been doing it ever since free agency, only they call it "moving aging stars on big contracts for prospects and players with 3 years of team control" instead of "tanking", and everyone views it as great business.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This. Finishing last shouldn't be rewarded. Especially if that was the goal.Parity is over-RATED.

I'm not even convinced the draft improves parity. The salary cap is enough.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It appears to be a pretty big problem in the NBA and NHL this year, though the fanbases in Philadelphia and Buffalo respectively don't seem to mind all that much.

It's an interesting idea. I think Simmons or one of his staffers floated something like it a couple of years ago.

I'm with cjw. Nobody cares except people who are looking for something to talk/write about.

There's nothing wrong with making a strategic decision to sacrifice some success in the present for greater success down the road. People and businesses do it in every other walk of life and nobody seems to mind. It's not like the coaches and players are trying to lose- that would be a problem. But I almost never see that.

The Sixers plays hard and are actually kind of entertaining considering the lack of talent. Last night they were behind by 33 early in the 4th quarter, on the road, after playing an overtime game Monday night. Wiz went to the bench and the Sixers outplayed them by 18 points over the next 6 minutes, forcing the Wiz to call timeout and re-insert their starters to close it out. If that's what tanking looks like I don't really see the problem.

Strategic decisions often suck for the people who buy tickets right now. In a just world, a team doing that would get relegated.

Why? The strategic decisions I'm talking about are generally well known to the consumers before they buy their tickets.

 

[roadkill1292]

Ugh. You people are too satisfied with the way things are. Professional sports in this country need to be blown up.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Ugh. You people are too satisfied with the way things are. Professional sports in this country need to be blown up.

I think we can all agree that if we're gonna start blowing them up we should probably start with the NFL's many problems before we worry about whether the Sixers should be hurrying Joel Embiid back onto the floor.

 

[sports_fan]

So if your team actually stinks and wins 1-2 games after being eliminated (thinking NBA), you'll get a mid round pick? Admittedly, I didn't read the details.

It does seem legitimately horrible teams would frequently get screwed with this method.

 

[Brony]

Then mediocre teams will game the system to try to miss the playoffs and there will be more outrage and debate. Hurrumph!

 

[roadkill1292]

Ugh. You people are too satisfied with the way things are. Professional sports in this country need to be blown up.

I think we can all agree that if we're gonna start blowing them up we should probably start with the NFL's many problems before we worry about whether the Sixers should be hurrying Joel Embiid back onto the floor.

I'm sure this is a profound and accurate observation. If I only knew who Joel Embiid was. Is that spelling right?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Everybody has lost their mind, really.

The worst team should get the best pick and so on.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This. Finishing last shouldn't be rewarded. Especially if that was the goal.Parity is over-RATED.

I'm not even convinced the draft improves parity.

In the NFL, I suspect it does a better job of promoting parity now than it did under the previous CBA. (The downside, if you consider it to be a downside, is that the reason it does a better job of promoting parity now is that the top picks are more severely underpaid now relative to their expected production.)

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This times a thousand. Why we accept this in sports is beyond me.

How would anyone else feel about graduating from college, then having yourself limited to only one potential employer? Would someone out of law school really be OK with hearing "Congrats on passing the bar, you've been picked by Skadden's Los Angeles office, you can negotiate your pay with them only, or just not work for the next 12 months"?

Blow it all up. Everyone's a free agent, there's a salary cap, let the market decide.

Can't have a salary cap without a CBA. It's either a completely free market or there's a CBA, no in between. That's why the penalties the Cowboys and Redskins suffered for their conduct during the season without a CBA blows my mind.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Can't have a salary cap without a CBA.

There can be a CBA without a draft.

But yes, that is an important difference (and there are others as well) between the Cleveland Browns and Skadden's Los Angeles office. There's no CBA for lawyers.

One of the problems with collective bargaining in sports is that the owners and the veterans can kind of team up against future rookies -- which is arguably what happened in the NFL with the draft and low rookie cap.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This times a thousand. Why we accept this in sports is beyond me.

How would anyone else feel about graduating from college, then having yourself limited to only one potential employer? Would someone out of law school really be OK with hearing "Congrats on passing the bar, you've been picked by Skadden's Los Angeles office, you can negotiate your pay with them only, or just not work for the next 12 months"?

Blow it all up. Everyone's a free agent, there's a salary cap, let the market decide.

The analogy is a little flawed. In sports, both the teams and the league are the employer. The league markets itself to customers far more directly and significantly than trade groups or whatever. They negotiate the national media deals and make most of the rules for employees and for the product. The draft is part of that- it sells hope to a large percentage of fans who otherwise would have none because their teams are in a small market or are managed poorly or have had a run of bad luck.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This times a thousand. Why we accept this in sports is beyond me.

How would anyone else feel about graduating from college, then having yourself limited to only one potential employer? Would someone out of law school really be OK with hearing "Congrats on passing the bar, you've been picked by Skadden's Los Angeles office, you can negotiate your pay with them only, or just not work for the next 12 months"?

Blow it all up. Everyone's a free agent, there's a salary cap, let the market decide.

The analogy is a little flawed. In sports, both the teams and the league are the employer. The league markets itself to customers far more directly and significantly than trade groups or whatever. They negotiate the national media deals and make most of the rules for employees and for the product. The draft is part of that- it sells hope to a large percentage of fans who otherwise would have none because their teams are in a small market or are managed poorly or have had a run of bad luck.

I think you're drawing a lot of irrelevant distinctions here. There are lots of ways to distinguish the Redskins from Skadden, but those aren't really pertinent to his analogy. The draft is a restraint on the labor market that would be unacceptable in most other contexts. The way that the NBA markets itself seems wholly unrelated to that point.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Can't have a salary cap without a CBA.

There can be a CBA without a draft.

But yes, that is an important difference (and there are others as well) between the Cleveland Browns and Skadden's Los Angeles office. There's no CBA for lawyers.

One of the problems with collective bargaining in sports is that the owners and the veterans can kind of team up against future rookies -- which is arguably what happened in the NFL with the draft and low rookie cap.

Absolutely, but all of the CBAs have different groups who bear the brunt of the concessions. And don't get me wrong, I think the NFLPA has been pushed around like a rag doll for years -- it is ridiculous that they don't get guaranteed contracts. The MLBPA has done a far, far better job in all respects, but there is the reality that typically in MLB a drafted player isn't ready for the Bigs yet, and the MLBPA doesn't represent minor leaguers. Their concessions come with that pre-arbitration period, which can suck something awful for a guy like Mike Trout. In the NBA, the elite players have given-up a ton for the benefit of young and lesser-talented guys (there is no person in the United States of America more underpaid than LeBron James, for example).

But they all get real league minimums and real pensions now, which never happened before they could collectively bargain, so they have that.

Regardless, the draft offers a controlled manner for new entrants to enter the workforce, which is important for those folks who are already in the workforce.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Regardless, the draft offers a controlled manner for new entrants to enter the workforce, which is important for those folks who are already in the workforce.

I don't understand what this means.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Better solution is just to get rid of the draft.

This times a thousand. Why we accept this in sports is beyond me.

How would anyone else feel about graduating from college, then having yourself limited to only one potential employer? Would someone out of law school really be OK with hearing "Congrats on passing the bar, you've been picked by Skadden's Los Angeles office, you can negotiate your pay with them only, or just not work for the next 12 months"?

Blow it all up. Everyone's a free agent, there's a salary cap, let the market decide.

The analogy is a little flawed. In sports, both the teams and the league are the employer. The league markets itself to customers far more directly and significantly than trade groups or whatever. They negotiate the national media deals and make most of the rules for employees and for the product. The draft is part of that- it sells hope to a large percentage of fans who otherwise would have none because their teams are in a small market or are managed poorly or have had a run of bad luck.

I think you're drawing a lot of irrelevant distinctions here. There are lots of ways to distinguish the Redskins from Skadden, but those aren't really pertinent to his analogy. The draft is a restraint on the labor market that would be unacceptable in most other contexts. The way that the NBA markets itself seems wholly unrelated to that point.

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK. Teams couldn't have a cap without that CBA. There would be no league minimum salaries without that CBA. No minimum team salaries, no guaranteed pensions, etc. without the CBA. No CBA is a world that the rank-and-file players want no part of. They would just be completely and utterly fungible and absolutely replaceable on a whim. Without a CBA, does anyone think a journeyman right guard gets a big bonus that all but guarantees he's got 2 or 3 years of base salary when he's signed? Not a chance.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Then mediocre teams will game the system to try to miss the playoffs and there will be more outrage and debate. Hurrumph!

Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

 

[Rove!]

Reverse Standings

"Teams that do not make the playoffs are ranked based on the number of games they win (or points they accumulate in the NHL) after they are eliminated from playoff contention. The team with the most wins (or points) is then given the top pick in the draft. The team with second-most wins (or points) receives the second pick and so on."

Leagues need to adopt this or something similar. The beauty is the simplicity. I'm not sure why this hasn't gotten more play as it was written in 2012. The piece does point out a few downsides too.

http://www.businessinsider.com/reverse-standings-tanking-2015-4

It hasn't been implemented because it's an exceptionally stupid idea. Truly horrible teams would be grabbing their ankles...

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Regardless, the draft offers a controlled manner for new entrants to enter the workforce, which is important for those folks who are already in the workforce.

I don't understand what this means.

The CBA is negotiated between owners and current members of the PA, not prospective members of the PA. So in the case of the NFL for example, drafted players were getting ever-increasing deals to the point that some rookie deals were the largest contracts being carried by teams. The NFLPA wanted to squeeze some of that money back into their members' pockets, so they negotiated caps on rookie deals. Those incoming rookies, the guys being squeezed, didn't have any say in it.

As far as the draft controlling entry into the workforce, if there were no draft players could enter the workforce at any time and for any team. Browns need a WR at mid-season? Instead of signing a FA, they can just call-up Amari Cooper in Tuscaloosa and float $100k in front of him to come on up for a few games. You might say, that's ridiculous because Cooper wouldn't have been in camp and he couldn't possibly be ready to excel yet. That's true, but remember, we're talking about FA who are AT BEST replacement-level, so Cooper doesn't need to be particularly good for those handful of games, just as good as replacement-level. Additionally, even if you could somehow keep an "entry period" (still a restraint on trade), destination jobs would be tougher for active players to get because those teams would have an unlimited supply of rookies to choose from, squeezing the veteran players even more than they're squeezed now.

Remember, CBAs don't benefit the stars, they benefit and protect the rank-and-file.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

 

[roadkill1292]

A valid CBA could have everything it has now, including the abominable rookie salary restrictions, yet leave out the draft. Better minds than mine, including Chase Stuart, one of the most influential sabermetricians following football today according to some, have concluded that the draft is not very essential to a competitive NFL. The draft is there mostly for the yahoos who put on their wigs and facepaint every Sunday. The draft is for cruelly dashed hopes.

 

[roadkill1292]

WHEN DID FATGUYINALITTLECOAT JUMP ON THE "KILL THE DRAFT" BANDWAGON?!?1ONE

This angers me a little because I'm sure he's setting me up for something.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Lets suppose the draft is "needed". Why does it bother you that they have one?

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

I dunno, I was trying to make a point about how insignificant potential draftees' concerns are to the leagues. At the end of the day if they don't want to go through the draft process, they don't have to. NBA players can sit-out for 2 full years and become free agents (seems like I read something by a guy who thought that's what The Brow should have done). I assume there's something similar NFL and MLB prospects could do as well. Realistically, however, doing that means not getting into the League. So they have to make a choice, play or not play? And to the draft they go.

The majority of teams want the draft to have hope of getting a player they couldn't get in FA. The majority of players want to draft to control entry to the workforce. There will always be a draft whether the fans think it should exist or not.

 

[roadkill1292]

Lets suppose the draft is "needed". Why does it bother you that they have one?

You're gonna have to define "needed." Because that's the issue in my mind. If it's not "needed," then it is even more unjustifiable for restraining employment choices by the labor force.

Don't you get tired of rooting for the people with all the money and power to continue having it over the guys who have neither?

 

[Cjw_55106]

Lets suppose the draft is "needed". Why does it bother you that they have one?

You're gonna have to define "needed." Because that's the issue in my mind. If it's not "needed," then it is even more unjustifiable for restraining employment choices by the labor force.

Don't you get tired of rooting for the people with all the money and power to continue having it over the guys who have neither?

Sorry, I meant isnt needed....and no, Im not tired of athletes being taken advantage of.

 

[roadkill1292]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

I dunno, I was trying to make a point about how insignificant potential draftees' concerns are to the leagues. At the end of the day if they don't want to go through the draft process, they don't have to. NBA players can sit-out for 2 full years and become free agents (seems like I read something by a guy who thought that's what The Brow should have done). I assume there's something similar NFL and MLB prospects could do as well. Realistically, however, doing that means not getting into the League. So they have to make a choice, play or not play? And to the draft they go.

The majority of teams want the draft to have hope of getting a player they couldn't get in FA. The majority of players want to draft to control entry to the workforce. There will always be a draft whether the fans think it should exist or not.

Don't be a defeatest. Ed O'Bannon taught us that powerful institutions can be beaten. Jeffrey Kessler will hammer that point further home. The next major pro football lawsuit may be directed at the NFLPA with the intent of stopping it from giving away the farm.

 

[dickey moe]

Works great in my FF dynasty leagues!

 

[Cjw_55106]

To me, the bottom line is, the draft is entertainment for the fans. Sports make money because they are entertaining. I think to say the draft is rich, powerful people having something over someone, is a pretty huge leap.

 

[roadkill1292]

Lets suppose the draft is "needed". Why does it bother you that they have one?

You're gonna have to define "needed." Because that's the issue in my mind. If it's not "needed," then it is even more unjustifiable for restraining employment choices by the labor force.

Don't you get tired of rooting for the people with all the money and power to continue having it over the guys who have neither?

Sorry, I meant isnt needed....and no, Im not tired of athletes being taken advantage of.

When you watched Braveheart you must have rooted for the King of England. Seriously, the NFL has done a brilliant job of convincing its fan base that it should root for the owners in all labor issues and that the players are stupid criminals who would be sweeping floors if it wasn't for the magnificent opportunity they are granted by the league. Except for Peyton Manning, of course.

Meanwhile, ticket prices continue to soar. Don't be a chump. These guys are becoming billionaires at your expense and sneering at you while they do it.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

I dunno, I was trying to make a point about how insignificant potential draftees' concerns are to the leagues. At the end of the day if they don't want to go through the draft process, they don't have to. NBA players can sit-out for 2 full years and become free agents (seems like I read something by a guy who thought that's what The Brow should have done). I assume there's something similar NFL and MLB prospects could do as well. Realistically, however, doing that means not getting into the League. So they have to make a choice, play or not play? And to the draft they go.

The majority of teams want the draft to have hope of getting a player they couldn't get in FA. The majority of players want to draft to control entry to the workforce. There will always be a draft whether the fans think it should exist or not.

Don't be a defeatest. Ed O'Bannon taught us that powerful institutions can be beaten. Jeffrey Kessler will hammer that point further home. The next major pro football lawsuit may be directed at the NFLPA with the intent of stopping it from giving away the farm.

Nah, although I think there are some former leadership folks with the NFLPA who might need to undergo competency hearings.

At the end of the day the leagues can ##### and whine about the PAs publicly all day long, but they need them just as much as the players do. Donald Fehr knew that and he wielded that knowledge like a sledgehammer, which infuriated the owners. NFL teams are leveraged to the hilt, but work stoppages only carry so much threat when the TV deal pays regardless. The NFLPA would have to be willing to kill a Super Bowl or an entire season, something they've shown nothing to make anyone believe they would do. When the MLBPA says "we'll shut down the World Series", the owners frigging believe it. The NFL owners would just laugh at the NFLPA. The NBA owners just got done stomping on the NBAPA, which result in new leadership there. Already we've seen more backbone from the new leadership than you saw for years before.

 

[roadkill1292]

To me, the bottom line is, the draft is entertainment for the fans. Sports make money because they are entertaining. I think to say the draft is rich, powerful people having something over someone, is a pretty huge leap.

Sure, turn away. If you don't look, it doesn't really happen.

 

[Cjw_55106]

To me, the bottom line is, the draft is entertainment for the fans. Sports make money because they are entertaining. I think to say the draft is rich, powerful people having something over someone, is a pretty huge leap.

Sure, turn away. If you don't look, it doesn't really happen.

 

[roadkill1292]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

I dunno, I was trying to make a point about how insignificant potential draftees' concerns are to the leagues. At the end of the day if they don't want to go through the draft process, they don't have to. NBA players can sit-out for 2 full years and become free agents (seems like I read something by a guy who thought that's what The Brow should have done). I assume there's something similar NFL and MLB prospects could do as well. Realistically, however, doing that means not getting into the League. So they have to make a choice, play or not play? And to the draft they go.

The majority of teams want the draft to have hope of getting a player they couldn't get in FA. The majority of players want to draft to control entry to the workforce. There will always be a draft whether the fans think it should exist or not.

Don't be a defeatest. Ed O'Bannon taught us that powerful institutions can be beaten. Jeffrey Kessler will hammer that point further home. The next major pro football lawsuit may be directed at the NFLPA with the intent of stopping it from giving away the farm.

Nah, although I think there are some former leadership folks with the NFLPA who might need to undergo competency hearings.

At the end of the day the leagues can ##### and whine about the PAs publicly all day long, but they need them just as much as the players do. Donald Fehr knew that and he wielded that knowledge like a sledgehammer, which infuriated the owners. NFL teams are leveraged to the hilt, but work stoppages only carry so much threat when the TV deal pays regardless. The NFLPA would have to be willing to kill a Super Bowl or an entire season, something they've shown nothing to make anyone believe they would do. When the MLBPA says "we'll shut down the World Series", the owners frigging believe it. The NFL owners would just laugh at the NFLPA. The NBA owners just got done stomping on the NBAPA, which result in new leadership there. Already we've seen more backbone from the new leadership than you saw for years before.

The next rebellion happens when the two college basketball finalists delay coming out for tipoff for an hour. Just to let everybody know who really counts the most.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

It is a restraint on trade for sure, but it's one that has been collectively bargained, so it's OK.

Yeah, I don't agree with this part. People with more expertise in this stuff than me have assured me it is all legal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is OK. It's veteran players agreeing to something at the expense of future players that have no representation in the negotiations.

Let them unionize and see what they can do collectively. I'm going to guess it'll fall somewhere between "nothing" and "absolutely nothing". The NFL #####-slaps the NFLPA every time they have to bargain. Ditto (lately at least) the NBA and the NBAPA. A union of potential draft candidates wouldn't even give the owners reason to pause.

I don't know enough about labor law to know if this is even possible. How could there be a union of people that may play for the NBA some time in the future?

I dunno, I was trying to make a point about how insignificant potential draftees' concerns are to the leagues. At the end of the day if they don't want to go through the draft process, they don't have to. NBA players can sit-out for 2 full years and become free agents (seems like I read something by a guy who thought that's what The Brow should have done). I assume there's something similar NFL and MLB prospects could do as well. Realistically, however, doing that means not getting into the League. So they have to make a choice, play or not play? And to the draft they go.

The majority of teams want the draft to have hope of getting a player they couldn't get in FA. The majority of players want to draft to control entry to the workforce. There will always be a draft whether the fans think it should exist or not.

Don't be a defeatest. Ed O'Bannon taught us that powerful institutions can be beaten. Jeffrey Kessler will hammer that point further home. The next major pro football lawsuit may be directed at the NFLPA with the intent of stopping it from giving away the farm.

Nah, although I think there are some former leadership folks with the NFLPA who might need to undergo competency hearings.

At the end of the day the leagues can ##### and whine about the PAs publicly all day long, but they need them just as much as the players do. Donald Fehr knew that and he wielded that knowledge like a sledgehammer, which infuriated the owners. NFL teams are leveraged to the hilt, but work stoppages only carry so much threat when the TV deal pays regardless. The NFLPA would have to be willing to kill a Super Bowl or an entire season, something they've shown nothing to make anyone believe they would do. When the MLBPA says "we'll shut down the World Series", the owners frigging believe it. The NFL owners would just laugh at the NFLPA. The NBA owners just got done stomping on the NBAPA, which result in new leadership there. Already we've seen more backbone from the new leadership than you saw for years before.

The next rebellion happens when the two college basketball finalists delay coming out for tipoff for an hour. Just to let everybody know who really counts the most.

But that won't impact the pros one little bit.

I'm 100% pro-player and pro-player unions. But the players and unions want that draft just as much as the small market and/or poorly run pro franchises want it. The only folks who don't want the draft are the well-run big-market franchises.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/why-i-love-tanking-and-hate-adam-gold-s-solution-for-it-164445599.html

 

[Insein]

They have a draft because the leagues are owned by rich guys who feel competitive balance makes more money collectively than dynasties.