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Green Bay Packers Thread (2 Viewers)

sho nuff said:
I think we are a ways off from knowing that...hindsight after a year looks really really bad (especially with the Smiths breaking out).  Underachiever for sure...but has the body and talent and that is what coaching helps with.  Hopefully...it works out.
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I hope you're right but I can't think of too many guys that were physical freaks, underachieved in college, and put it together in the NFL.  I think that's a pretty short list.  Hopefully it clicks for Gary but I'm betting against it.

 
Pipes said:
I hope you're right but I can't think of too many guys that were physical freaks, underachieved in college, and put it together in the NFL.  I think that's a pretty short list.  Hopefully it clicks for Gary but I'm betting against it.
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Clay Matthews. 

 
I think best comparison is Darryl Gardner. He was a top five talent who slipped in draft because his production didn’t match his talent level. Had a few excellent years for the Dolphins. But I agree with general premise that there are more misses than hits on players with loads of talent but not matching production.

 
13 solo tackles, 8 assists and 3 sacks in 16 games played.  Based on production alone, you have to grade Gary an F as the 12th pick in the draft.  But there are some mitigating factors. The club spent heavily at his position to bring in two players who performed above expectations.  You’d like to see more playing time for a guy picked that high, but he looked pretty decent in the few plays he got.
 

To state the obvious I guess, next season is huge for him and for Gutekunst. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
13 solo tackles, 8 assists and 3 sacks in 16 games played.  Based on production alone, you have to grade Gary an F as the 12th pick in the draft.  But there are some mitigating factors. The club spent heavily at his position to bring in two players who performed above expectations.  You’d like to see more playing time for a guy picked that high, but he looked pretty decent in the few plays he got.
 

To state the obvious I guess, next season is huge for him and for Gutekunst. 
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A guy picked that high needs to be on the field.  Pettine, as the coach, needs to figure out a way to have him on the field with the Smith Bros.  If that doesn’t happen next year, a lot, then it means Gary is a bust at that point (unless one of the Smiths is injured).

 
CletiusMaximus said:
13 solo tackles, 8 assists and 3 sacks in 16 games played.  Based on production alone, you have to grade Gary an F as the 12th pick in the draft.  But there are some mitigating factors. The club spent heavily at his position to bring in two players who performed above expectations.  You’d like to see more playing time for a guy picked that high, but he looked pretty decent in the few plays he got.
 

To state the obvious I guess, next season is huge for him and for Gutekunst. 
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No more Fackrell likely...so Gary will get more time in the packages where they go LB heavy vs DL.

Thing is...they knew they had the Smiths when they drafted him...so it seemed an odd move, that much I can agree with.  With other needs, why did we feel the need to go Gary there with both OLBs coming in FA (plus having Fackrell another year).  That would be more of my frustration than him not yet getting on the field....its more the not getting on the field because perhaps it wasn't a pick they needed to make.  Now...this all could change in the future if he lives up to the potential of his talent.  But how much better would an Olineman have looked to help out with depth?  WR?  ILB?

My other thought on Gary...do they want him to bulk up and play more in line?  Due is 6'5" and 277...can he play end in the 3/4 and use that quick step inside?

Wondering how much they had wanted a few of the guys that went just ahead of them but didn't want to move up  (guys like Devin Bush and Devin White...Hockensen...even Ed Oliver, though if they were going to got DT, they still had Christian Wilkens there when they took Gary).

Just based on this year...

Gary...not a great pick, but room to grow.  So far, its an F.

Savage...showed flashes early, got dinged up a bit...recency bias would lead this grade down after the SF game.  But I think overall a B for his season.  They were noticeably worse when he went out a few weeks.  Whether that was due to him being out or competition.

E. Jenkins...a high B if not an A for a 2nd round pick to become a starter and play pretty well?  Lets go B+

Jace...incomplete due to injury most of the year.

The rest...meh.

 
I love the Jenkins pick, hit a home run there.

I think injury affected Savage. He is going to be a nice center field safety, just wish he was tougher against the run.

when I saw Gary I thought if he adds 10-15 pounds he can be a Cullen Jenkins. Stout against run but could also push the pocket. At the very least he should be a down lineman on obvious passing situations. I really feel packers wanted the two linebackers that went and maybe Hockenson (who would have been a great fit in this offense)

I have a good feeling about Jace. I anticipate a nice jump.

The best news is that the issues packers are having can be fixed rather easily.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I think their are plenty of diamonds in the rough and I think drafting receivers in the first round is a waste.   Give me an Offensive or Defensive tackle. 
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In today's NFL, drafting defensive tackles in the 1st round doesn't make a lot of sense unless they are elite pass-rushers.  2 down DTs may be one of the most overdrafted positions, and spending a 1st or 2nd on one doesn't make much sense.

Balco said:
I’m hoping Gary can ...[snip]
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Said by every coach he's ever had.  Gary's just not that guy and was a reach at 12th overall.  If he shows real development in year 2 we'll all be pleasantly surprised, but expecting anything more than marginal improvement seems foolish.

 
trader jake said:
In today's NFL, drafting defensive tackles in the 1st round doesn't make a lot of sense unless they are elite pass-rushers.  2 down DTs may be one of the most overdrafted positions, and spending a 1st or 2nd on one doesn't make much sense.

Said by every coach he's ever had.  Gary's just not that guy and was a reach at 12th overall.  If he shows real development in year 2 we'll all be pleasantly surprised, but expecting anything more than marginal improvement seems foolish.
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Packers are drafting what, 29 or 30.  A D.T. is fine right there.  We are not talking about drafting at 1 or 2 or even 10.  Give me another Kenny Clark.  Give me a run stopper after what we saw this year.  someone who can push the pocket on passing downs so our outside rushers can get home some more and so that they don't worry about the inside run on running plays and they instead get out there and set the edge, something we did not see against S.F.

 
Balco said:
The best news is that the issues packers are having can be fixed rather easily.
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Finding a true, difference making middle linebacker is the single biggest hole the Packers currently have on the roster.

That player needs play-wrecking speed, the ability to diagnose run plays to bring down ball-carriers, the nose for the ball in coverage, the head to make defensive calls and checks, the determination to grind in the film room every week, the will to push through bumps and bruises, and the heart to motivate teammates year after year.  That is extremely difficult to find.

IMO there are three prospects that have this ILB potential in the 2020 draft (Simmons - Clemson, Murray - Oklahoma, Queen - LSU).  If the Packers feel one of them has a chance to fit the description above they need to do what it takes to secure his selection in the 1st round.  The wide receiver class is deep and a talented player that could play in his rookie season should be available in round 2.

 
trader jake said:
Finding a true, difference making middle linebacker is the single biggest hole the Packers currently have on the roster.

That player needs play-wrecking speed, the ability to diagnose run plays to bring down ball-carriers, the nose for the ball in coverage, the head to make defensive calls and checks, the determination to grind in the film room every week, the will to push through bumps and bruises, and the heart to motivate teammates year after year.  That is extremely difficult to find.

IMO there are three prospects that have this ILB potential in the 2020 draft (Simmons - Clemson, Murray - Oklahoma, Queen - LSU).  If the Packers feel one of them has a chance to fit the description above they need to do what it takes to secure his selection in the 1st round.  The wide receiver class is deep and a talented player that could play in his rookie season should be available in round 2.
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Sometimes you find such guys in the third round, like Chris Borland, but more often around draft slots # 10 to # 15, where Devin Bush went last year.  It would take a lot of capital to move up that far.     Agreed that is what we need, but to get a sure thing is costly and would leave us wanting elsewhere.  I hope they address the matter in maybe the third round and get lucky and hit it big time there.

Now of course my hopes are unrealistic.  My hopes is that the find the next Aaron Donald at # 30, the next Joe Thomas in the second round, the next Ray Nitschke in the third round, the next Jordy Nelson in the fourth, the next Rob Gronkowski in the fifth,  the next Herb Adderly in the sixth, and the next Aaron Rodgers in the seventh.  I also hope the computer spits out another 9 third round compensatory picks for the Packers where they do no worse than a Chris Borlan type pick and maybe better, so my hopes may not be worth discussing. 

 
Listening to the GM and others...Blake is done in GB.  The question about him immediately turned to talking about Kenny Clark, Lowry and the D Line.

 
I wouldn't mind giving kicking Greg Olsen's tires. I think he would be infinitely better than Graham from the stand points of understanding the playbook and taking Sternberger under his wing. 

 
Dark Matter said:
I wouldn't mind giving kicking Greg Olsen's tires. I think he would be infinitely better than Graham from the stand points of understanding the playbook and taking Sternberger under his wing. 
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No thank you. We need a tight end who doesn’t limp when they catch a pass. Stinks that Hunter Henry is going to be tagged.

 
I guesss Blake Martinez won't be back and we signed Kirksey. I think I'm OK with the move. It seems to me like the club really likes this sort of move of signing guys in their mid to later 20's to contracts taking them to about 30.

Now I hope they are at least looking at Hooper or even Ebron at TE. I think they fit the same type of deal of signing free agents playing out their 20's.

 
Warhogs said:
I guesss Blake Martinez won't be back and we signed Kirksey. I think I'm OK with the move. It seems to me like the club really likes this sort of move of signing guys in their mid to later 20's to contracts taking them to about 30.

Now I hope they are at least looking at Hooper or even Ebron at TE. I think they fit the same type of deal of signing free agents playing out their 20's.
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I get the idea behind the move, but man Kirksey sucks. Martinez is a better player(and likely would have cost more) can't see this as anything but a downgrade.

If the talk of Hooper resetting the TE market is true, I'd greatly prefer Ebron. To be honest, I'm not sure a Sternberger/Lewis combo wouldn't be almost as good, for a small fraction of the price, and then spend that money elsewhere, like WR.

 
The Kirksey signing tells me that with the money they threw out at the Smith brothers last year they couldn't afford to keep Martinez and Kirksey was the best available in the price range they were willing to spend at LB. I can't say I have ever seen him play. He has had some decent tackle numbers and injuries recently.

 
Warhogs said:
The Kirksey signing tells me that with the money they threw out at the Smith brothers last year they couldn't afford to keep Martinez and Kirksey was the best available in the price range they were willing to spend at LB. I can't say I have ever seen him play. He has had some decent tackle numbers and injuries recently.
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He's a huge coverage liability, and his tackle numbers are inflated because so many teams were simply running out the clock on the Browns in 2016-2017. 

I'm on board with letting Martinez go, he's nothing special, but this is a downgrade. I feel the same way at OT as well. Bulaga is a decent starter, but not much more, and Wagner is less than that.

 
Dr. Dan said:
@travdogg might be funny to you but it's the main pieces of a negotiation I'm hearing about 
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Hey if GB can pull that off, that is awesome for them. 

No idea what Houston would be thinking. Of course, I never really do with Houston as they've made almost exclusively bad moves in the last year or so. 

I don't know why Taylor would have any value to Houston. He's no better than what they have at Guard. If Hopkins is getting dealt, 2 1sts should be the minimum. He's a top-3 NFL WR in his prime, with no off field or injury issues. 

If the price is really a 1st and a swing lineman, 20+ teams(most of whom with better 1st rounders) should be all over this.

 
travdogg said:
Hey if GB can pull that off, that is awesome for them. 

No idea what Houston would be thinking. Of course, I never really do with Houston as they've made almost exclusively bad moves in the last year or so. 

I don't know why Taylor would have any value to Houston. He's no better than what they have at Guard. If Hopkins is getting dealt, 2 1sts should be the minimum. He's a top-3 NFL WR in his prime, with no off field or injury issues. 

If the price is really a 1st and a swing lineman, 20+ teams(most of whom with better 1st rounders) should be all over this.
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I think a single late 1st and a starting guard is a bit light as well. I'm guessing if they are in the market those wouldnt be the only 2 pieces sent 

 
I can get behind both signings understanding the salary cap restraints Packers are working with. Kirksey is a better linebacker against the run than Blake but with the big “when healthy” tag. And he hasn’t been. Playmaking middle linebacker when he has been healthy and he has worked with Pettine before. Wagner I am going to chalk up to injuries - because he was solid Previous years. In this situation Bulaga is definitely a better tackle but with his injuries and the insane $$$ he will command, packers just can’t afford to keep him.

Kirksey was solid first step in shoring up the run D, Wagner gives a depth piece who can start and has done so at a high level before 2019. They still desperately need to solve receiver/tight end situation. Need a speedy slot receiver and desperately need a tight end. Aaron has no one save for Davante he could rely on the make 3rd down catches. 

 
What are thoughts on GB taking James Morgan as a 3rd day grab? IMO hes pretty solid. Worst case scenario, the hometown roots would give us something to talk about at least. 

Rumor is they are extremely interested. I think he could be a gem. I actually wouldnt hate a 2nd round price 

 
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By Lance Zierlein

NFL Analyst

Overview

It's easy to tell that the Green Bay native favors quarterbacks like Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers when you watch his tape. Unfortunately, while he has similar zip to the Packer legends, he's nowhere near as accurate and lacks any semblance of touch. Morgan is very capable of making impressive throws to all areas of the field, but his violent release and inconsistent footwork hinder functional ball placement and accuracy. His lack of pocket mobility and instincts make him too easy for defensive coordinators to assault with a variety of blitz packages. He's a tough guy with a big arm and the 2018 tape is the one to watch, but QB3 may be his ceiling.

 
So quiet with just nothing building to me up to tonight.  Just haven't been as into it with everything going on...which is odd since its sports at this time.

Will still watch but haven't paid as much attention.  Maybe because Im not in the car as much listening to sports radio as much as usual.

Thoughts on tonight?

I think its a solid 40% chance of a trade back and not even picking tonight.

If they do pick...IMO its one of these in no particular order

  • OT
  • Inside LB
  • WR
 
I really want Raegor.  I feel like they have enough big body WR's that Raegor would be an electrifying weapon in their offense. I do also like Mims and Aiyuk as well.  Ideally though I'd love Queen or Murray but feel like they will be gone.  I wouldn't be thrilled with OL or DL but I understand you can never have too many skilled big bodies.  I just think it's time to invest some draft capital in a skill position for a change, or LB which they typically don't value as highly as most teams.  I'll be pissed if they go DB.

 
Pipes said:
I really want Raegor.  I feel like they have enough big body WR's that Raegor would be an electrifying weapon in their offense. I do also like Mims and Aiyuk as well.  Ideally though I'd love Queen or Murray but feel like they will be gone.  I wouldn't be thrilled with OL or DL but I understand you can never have too many skilled big bodies.  I just think it's time to invest some draft capital in a skill position for a change, or LB which they typically don't value as highly as most teams.  I'll be pissed if they go DB.
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Agree...I think OT is a need, but unless its can't miss, don't take him tonight.

Also agree on DB...have spent a ton of draft capital on guys in the secondary.  I don't think you spend another day one pick on the back end right now.

 
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