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Gronk vs Graham Dynasty/Keeper League Value (1 Viewer)

jeaton6

Footballguy
I'm a Gronk owner in a 3 keeper league being approached by Graham owner for a trade. I suspect he'll try to frame the negotiation as Graham being higher value than Gronk (based on Grahams 2013 performance and Gronk's injuries) but I don't really see it that way. When Gronk on field he has been #1 TE by far over the past few years. But It seems like Graham is taking his game to a whole new level this year. Some key items I've tried to think through as I try to sort through valuation of these two guys:

1) Injury history: Gronk always banged up and missing time, Graham not nearly as much

2) Age: Gronk 2.5 years younger than Graham

3) Elite QB Age: Brady 1.5 years older than Brees

4) QB Contracts: I believe both QB's signed through 2016/2017

5) Contracts: Gronk just signed last year, Jimmy probably signs extension in offseason

6) Both focal points of offense and target monsters.

Probably many more factors to consider but that's what I came with quickly. Based on this and anything else you guys have, what is everyone's outlook of these two? My take is similar value, Gronk more likely to miss time, but when on field probably still top guy.

 

Futz

Footballguy
I think the big unknown about Gronk is going to be the big equalizer here no matter how much better you think Gronk was prior to his plethora of surgeries. Even if Gronk comes back and performs well, his perceived value is always going to be a notch below Graham going forward.

The guy is obviously trying to do a package deal because I see no real reason for him to do a straight up trade of these guys. If that were the case, I wouldn't hesitate. Graham is what you hope Gronk can get back to.

 
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Tool

Footballguy
Gronk does have a higher ceiling, but allowing for the risk you have to take w/ Gronk, I think Graham has to be valued higher. i own Gronk in a couple leagues and i would prob trade him for Graham if i could.

 

CalvinJ55

Footballguy
When Gronk is at 100% it's possible he is of higher value than Graham. But don't forget that Graham didn't have Payton last year and was playing through injury. He's continues to improve and it's possible he could outperform Gronk when healthy. Gronk may be a couple years younger but I still wouldn't be surprised if he is retired before Graham with injury issues already being a big problem.

Gronk is a stud and probably has a higher ceiling, but these injuries are very concerning and he has struggled with other issues (ankle) in the past. The back can be a long-term issue and he's one more injury away from getting the injury-prone label.

So imo Graham > Gronk in dynasty and in re-draft.

 

Cyclones

Footballguy
Yeah, if I was a Gronkowski owner and the Graham owner pitched a straight up trade, I would injure my right index finger in my haste to accept, and that goes for either redraft or dynasty.

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
I'm sorry--but I play in a few leagues--both dynasty and redraft--and I own both Gronk and Graham in different leagues. At this point-- I would value Graham over Gronk by a wide margin in any format. At this very moment-- the only way where Gronk would have the same value as Graham is if it was 100% certain that he would be the same player he was before all of the surgeries. This is a giant "if"--and generally speaking-- I would never trade an established stud for somebody who "might" or "probably might" come back to being a stud. At this very moment--it's Graham by a huge margin. If Gronk comes back and beasts for 2-3 straight games--then maybe it's closer to equal.

 

Run It Up

Footballguy
Its risk vs reward imo, I dont deny Graham is ahead of him right now in value by virtue of being on the field. But Gronk has outplayed Graham their entire respective careers. I see Gronks ceiling as well above Grahams.

 
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teal

Footballguy
2012 season:

Week Avg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Gronk 18.78 18 19.5 4.1 21.4 7.5 12.1 25.8 34.6 B 12.1 32.7

Graham 17.24 20.5 20.1 11.6 14.6 1.4 B 17.3 21.2 33.6 14.9

[sorry for bad formatting, but tables don't paste]

Variance involved, but last year from weeks 1-11 (Gronk injured end of week 11 game, I believe), Gronk only outperformed by 1.5ppg (also, I believe that Gronk got "full use" in the week he was injured to the tune of 32.7 pts, while Graham left early when he injured his wrist in week 5).

This year Graham is sure to start to revert because he's running at a 27.6ppg clip (PPR), which is unreal. In 2011, Gronk averaged 20ppg for the whole season, so right now Graham is playing far and above what we've seen before. I'd expect a reversion, but if Graham was to stay healthy and average 20ppg this season could we really say anymore that Gronk is "better" than Graham when both are healthy?

Just some thoughts...

 
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Run It Up

Footballguy
2012 season:

Week Avg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Gronk 18.78 18 19.5 4.1 21.4 7.5 12.1 25.8 34.6 B 12.1 32.7

Graham 17.24 20.5 20.1 11.6 14.6 1.4 B 17.3 21.2 33.6 14.9

[sorry for bad formatting, but tables don't paste]

Variance involved, but last year from weeks 1-11 (Gronk injured end of week 11 game, I believe), Gronk only outperformed by 1.5ppg (also, I believe that Gronk got "full use" in the week he was injured to the tune of 32.7 pts, while Graham left early when he injured his wrist in week 5).

This year Graham is sure to start to revert because he's running at a 27.6ppg clip (PPR), which is unreal. In 2011, Gronk averaged 20ppg for the whole season, so right now Graham is playing far and above what we've seen before. I'd expect a reversion, but if Graham was to stay healthy and average 20ppg this season could we really say anymore that Gronk is "better" than Graham when both are healthy?

Just some thoughts...
Was Graham unhealthy the last 3 years? Gronk has been dealing with injuries for 2 years and has still outproduced Graham every year.

 
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jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
2012 season:

Week Avg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Gronk 18.78 18 19.5 4.1 21.4 7.5 12.1 25.8 34.6 B 12.1 32.7

Graham 17.24 20.5 20.1 11.6 14.6 1.4 B 17.3 21.2 33.6 14.9

[sorry for bad formatting, but tables don't paste]

Variance involved, but last year from weeks 1-11 (Gronk injured end of week 11 game, I believe), Gronk only outperformed by 1.5ppg (also, I believe that Gronk got "full use" in the week he was injured to the tune of 32.7 pts, while Graham left early when he injured his wrist in week 5).

This year Graham is sure to start to revert because he's running at a 27.6ppg clip (PPR), which is unreal. In 2011, Gronk averaged 20ppg for the whole season, so right now Graham is playing far and above what we've seen before. I'd expect a reversion, but if Graham was to stay healthy and average 20ppg this season could we really say anymore that Gronk is "better" than Graham when both are healthy?

Just some thoughts...
graham was playing hurt for much of last season. When graham plays fully healthy--like this year and in 2011--he's a beast. Last year was nothing more than an opportunity to acquire him for far less than he is worth.
 

teal

Footballguy
2012 season:

Week Avg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Gronk 18.78 18 19.5 4.1 21.4 7.5 12.1 25.8 34.6 B 12.1 32.7

Graham 17.24 20.5 20.1 11.6 14.6 1.4 B 17.3 21.2 33.6 14.9

[sorry for bad formatting, but tables don't paste]

Variance involved, but last year from weeks 1-11 (Gronk injured end of week 11 game, I believe), Gronk only outperformed by 1.5ppg (also, I believe that Gronk got "full use" in the week he was injured to the tune of 32.7 pts, while Graham left early when he injured his wrist in week 5).

This year Graham is sure to start to revert because he's running at a 27.6ppg clip (PPR), which is unreal. In 2011, Gronk averaged 20ppg for the whole season, so right now Graham is playing far and above what we've seen before. I'd expect a reversion, but if Graham was to stay healthy and average 20ppg this season could we really say anymore that Gronk is "better" than Graham when both are healthy?

Just some thoughts...
Was Graham unhealthy the last 3 years? Gronk has been dealing with injuries for 2 years and has still outproduced Graham every year.
I'm not saying that Graham has outperformed Gronk...he never has when both are healthy. But, in 2012 for 11 games it was a 1.5ppg outperformance and in 2011 it was a 1.9ppg outperformance. Now, 2ppg over a season adds up, but what I'm saying is that while Gronk has performed better over the past two seasons, it's not crazy to think that Graham can close that gap or move ahead.

 
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Amused to Death

Footballguy
Tool said:
Gronk does have a higher ceiling, but allowing for the risk you have to take w/ Gronk, I think Graham has to be valued higher. i own Gronk in a couple leagues and i would prob trade him for Graham if i could.
And as a Graham owner, I have no interest in a 1 for 1 trade for Gronk. He would have to stay healthy and put up better numbers than JG for a year before I'd trust him. Graham's been studly enough and consistent enough that I don't feel the need to trade for an injury risk right now.

 

Run It Up

Footballguy
2012 season:

Week Avg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Gronk 18.78 18 19.5 4.1 21.4 7.5 12.1 25.8 34.6 B 12.1 32.7

Graham 17.24 20.5 20.1 11.6 14.6 1.4 B 17.3 21.2 33.6 14.9

[sorry for bad formatting, but tables don't paste]

Variance involved, but last year from weeks 1-11 (Gronk injured end of week 11 game, I believe), Gronk only outperformed by 1.5ppg (also, I believe that Gronk got "full use" in the week he was injured to the tune of 32.7 pts, while Graham left early when he injured his wrist in week 5).

This year Graham is sure to start to revert because he's running at a 27.6ppg clip (PPR), which is unreal. In 2011, Gronk averaged 20ppg for the whole season, so right now Graham is playing far and above what we've seen before. I'd expect a reversion, but if Graham was to stay healthy and average 20ppg this season could we really say anymore that Gronk is "better" than Graham when both are healthy?

Just some thoughts...
Was Graham unhealthy the last 3 years? Gronk has been dealing with injuries for 2 years and has still outproduced Graham every year.
I'm not saying that Graham has outperformed Gronk...he never has when both are healthy. But, in 2012 for 11 games it was a 1.5ppg outperformance and in 2011 it was a 1.9ppg outperformance. Now, 2ppg over a season adds up, but what I'm saying is that while Gronk has performed better over the past two seasons, it's not crazy to think that Graham can close that gap or move ahead.
Right, but you posed a rhetorical question comparing one players performance so far to a player who isn't even playing. You're right its not crazy to think that Graham could close the gap or even outperform Gronk when he returns, but its also not crazy to say that the player that has performed better over a sizeable sample is still the better player. This thread is about these players values over time, if we were talking right now obviously the guy playing football is worth more, but whos worth more over the next 5 years, they've both struggled with injury, the one who has dealt more with injury has outplayed the other.

TBH, I'm heavily invested in both and I expect them both to continue to improve every year, but its gonna take quite a bit from Graham or a lot of disappointing performances from Gronk to convince me that Graham has surpassed Gronk in his fantasy relevance. This reminds me a lot of the Hernandez vs Gronkowski discussion back in 2011, other than route running, I don't see a single element of their games that Gronkowski isn't the superior talent.

 

ILUVBEER99

Footballguy
Tool said:
Gronk does have a higher ceiling, but allowing for the risk you have to take w/ Gronk, I think Graham has to be valued higher. i own Gronk in a couple leagues and i would prob trade him for Graham if i could.
And as a Graham owner, I have no interest in a 1 for 1 trade for Gronk. He would have to stay healthy and put up better numbers than JG for a year before I'd trust him. Graham's been studly enough and consistent enough that I don't feel the need to trade for an injury risk right now.
I love gronk but there is no way Id rank him above graham with all his issues.

Graham is just hitting his stride, we haven't seen his ceiling.

 

fantasycurse42

Footballguy Jr.
For every reason listed in this thread, you'd be insane to not trade Gronk for Graham. If it is a 1 for 1, you need to pull the trigger now!!! Before he changes his mind.

They're TE's 1A & 1B... You're getting great production from either when on the field, although Graham is performing at an insane level this season, even by his standards.

The deciding factor becomes health, which is a no brainer... I have Gronk in a redraft and couldn't imagine the Graham owner considering a trade for a second.

 
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Adam Harstad

Moderator
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.

In the short term, I view them as pretty comparable. Julian Edelman is 7th in the league in targets so far. JULIAN EDELMAN! Gronk might sit out the first four games of the season and still wind up with 150 targets for the year. In the long term, I think that 2-3 years from now Gronk's age will become more and more of an advantage.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.

 
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Run It Up

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.
We get it, you have their values so unrealistically apart that you would only trade them for something no one would ever offer - got it.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.
We get it, you have their values so unrealistically apart that you would only trade them for something no one would ever offer - got it.
Just happy with Graham that I have no interest in Gronk. We're talking about how different people value the 2, right? Gronkowski has been the better TE when healthy. That's a big question mark at this point. I wouldn't trade the reliable #2 for the questionable #1. I don't have their values unrealistically apart, I just prefer the 'safer' player.

ETA: and why the attitude?

 
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Run It Up

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.
We get it, you have their values so unrealistically apart that you would only trade them for something no one would ever offer - got it.
Just happy with Graham that I have no interest in Gronk. We're talking about how different people value the 2, right? Gronkowski has been the better TE when healthy. That's a big question mark at this point. I wouldn't trade the reliable #2 for the questionable #1. I don't have their values unrealistically apart, I just prefer the 'safer' player.

ETA: and why the attitude?
Excuse the attitude - also I believe the above is completely unrealistic.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
I actually prefer Gronk over Graham in dynasty, and even drafted him over Graham straight up in a startup this offseason (in hindsight, I should have drafted Graham and put him on the trade block for Gronk+, but oh well, live and learn). Graham's insane start to the season is huge, but even if both TEs produce at the same level going forward (something they haven't done in the past), Gronk is two and a half years younger, and I'd expect him to have more games remaining in his career.
You're assuming they play to about the same age. For the next year or so, Gronk's value comes with a "yeah but...".
I don't assume they'll play to the same age. All else being equal, I assume Graham will play to an older age because he's got a head start. It's like actuarial tables- a 60 year old is more likely to live to age 70 than a 50 year old because the 60 year old already made it to 60. Gronkowski is about 3 and a half years younger (I was mistaken when I said two and a half years earlier; Gronk was born in April '89 and Graham was born in November '85, so they're about 3.4 years apart). Three and a half years translates to somewhere between 48 and 64 games. If I were trying to estimate how many games they had left in their careers, I'd probably give Gronkowski somewhere around a 32 game advantage. It's not a 3.5 year advantage, but it's still a pretty big advantage.
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.
We get it, you have their values so unrealistically apart that you would only trade them for something no one would ever offer - got it.
Just happy with Graham that I have no interest in Gronk. We're talking about how different people value the 2, right? Gronkowski has been the better TE when healthy. That's a big question mark at this point. I wouldn't trade the reliable #2 for the questionable #1. I don't have their values unrealistically apart, I just prefer the 'safer' player.

ETA: and why the attitude?
Excuse the attitude - also I believe the above is completely unrealistic.
Guess I won't be trading for Gronk.

:shrug:

 

jeaton6

Footballguy
Original poster: didn't have a specific trade out there when I first posed this question, great discussion this far.

Here's the trade that's been offered to get the Gronk+__= graham out there.

I was offered Graham+Spiller for Gronk+Julio in a 1 PPR League.

Obviously this opens up a whole other can of worms on the long term value of Julio and CJ but thought I'd get everyone's take on it now that I've got the real world offer.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I own Graham in a dynasty league, and if I was offered Gronk straight up I would reject it and probably say something rude.

I completely agree that it would need to be Gronk + something significant to even get my attention, and that is whether I am winning now or rebuilding.

 

Baloney Sandwich

Footballguy
I would think Gronk sees consistent double coverage all season once (if) he gets back on the field. Brady will still force the ball to him but I'm not totally sold on Gronk having a big year in 2013. Dynasty wise, Graham holds more value in my mind. Heck, at this point I would rather also have Julius Thomas.

 

Spike

Footballguy
Original poster: didn't have a specific trade out there when I first posed this question, great discussion this far.

Here's the trade that's been offered to get the Gronk+__= graham out there.

I was offered Graham+Spiller for Gronk+Julio in a 1 PPR League.

Obviously this opens up a whole other can of worms on the long term value of Julio and CJ but thought I'd get everyone's take on it now that I've got the real world offer.
Gronk and Julio for me in a 1 PPR league. With very little hesitation.

 

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
In re-draft: Graham>>>>>>>Gronk

In Dynasty Gronk >>>>>>>>Graham

Graham has a decent chance of being re-classified as a WR in the next year or so - when he goes to arbitration over his franchise tender. When he wins, I suspect many leagues will shift him to WR - because the Saints are already playing him at WR more than 50% of the snaps.

 

lbouchard

Footballguy
I would think Gronk sees consistent double coverage all season once (if) he gets back on the field. Brady will still force the ball to him but I'm not totally sold on Gronk having a big year in 2013. Dynasty wise, Graham holds more value in my mind. Heck, at this point I would rather also have Julius Thomas.
:lmao:

 

jeaton6

Footballguy
The reclassification piece of the story is very interesting I hadn't thought of that angle. That is a big piece of the puzzle and changes things dramatically if it happens.

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
I would think Gronk sees consistent double coverage all season once (if) he gets back on the field. Brady will still force the ball to him but I'm not totally sold on Gronk having a big year in 2013. Dynasty wise, Graham holds more value in my mind. Heck, at this point I would rather also have Julius Thomas.
Now you're just talking crazy. I would give you three Julius Thomases for one Rob Gronkowski.

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
Just wanted to note that I incorrectly said that Gronk was 3.5 years younger than Graham earlier. The real gap is only 2.5 years, PFR has Graham's birthday wrong.

In re-draft: Graham>>>>>>>Gronk

In Dynasty Gronk >>>>>>>>Graham

Graham has a decent chance of being re-classified as a WR in the next year or so - when he goes to arbitration over his franchise tender. When he wins, I suspect many leagues will shift him to WR - because the Saints are already playing him at WR more than 50% of the snaps.
This is a really interesting angle, and one that had literally never crossed my mind. The big advantage Gronk and Graham offer is that they score like WRs but get started at a position that typically is much lower-scoring. If Graham lost that advantage, he'd lose a big chunk of his value.

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
Just wanted to note that I incorrectly said that Gronk was 3.5 years younger than Graham earlier. The real gap is only 2.5 years, PFR has Graham's birthday wrong.

In re-draft: Graham>>>>>>>Gronk

In Dynasty Gronk >>>>>>>>Graham

Graham has a decent chance of being re-classified as a WR in the next year or so - when he goes to arbitration over his franchise tender. When he wins, I suspect many leagues will shift him to WR - because the Saints are already playing him at WR more than 50% of the snaps.
This is a really interesting angle, and one that had literally never crossed my mind. The big advantage Gronk and Graham offer is that they score like WRs but get started at a position that typically is much lower-scoring. If Graham lost that advantage, he'd lose a big chunk of his value.
Generally speaking--in the fantasy world--if a player plays a position for an entire season--and they change positions the next year--they end up with dual eligibility. I think dexter mccluster had both rb/wr eligibilities a year or two ago in many leagues. This very dynamic probably has a better chance of increasing Grahams value than hurting it.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Graham is 27 years old. I have more faith in him staying healthy over the next 3 years than I do Gronkowski. Like I said previously, if a Gronk owner proposed a trade for Graham, it better be Gronk + something significant.
The top orthopedic surgeon in sports won't clear him to play. He's at odds with the team over his availability and his teammates are questioning if he'll play at all this season. If you're putting money on it, which TE plays more games with his current team/QB over the next 3 years, Graham or Gronkowski?

As a Graham owner, any deal involving the 2 TEs would have to be "Graham for something significant + Gronkowski".

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
I would think Gronk sees consistent double coverage all season once (if) he gets back on the field. Brady will still force the ball to him but I'm not totally sold on Gronk having a big year in 2013. Dynasty wise, Graham holds more value in my mind. Heck, at this point I would rather also have Julius Thomas.
Now you're just talking crazy. I would give you three Julius Thomases for one Rob Gronkowski.
Right now, I wouldn't give you 1 Julius Thomas for 3 Gronkowski's.

 

lbouchard

Footballguy
I would think Gronk sees consistent double coverage all season once (if) he gets back on the field. Brady will still force the ball to him but I'm not totally sold on Gronk having a big year in 2013. Dynasty wise, Graham holds more value in my mind. Heck, at this point I would rather also have Julius Thomas.
Now you're just talking crazy. I would give you three Julius Thomases for one Rob Gronkowski.
Right now, I wouldn't give you 1 Julius Thomas for 3 Gronkowski's.
:lmao:

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
Are people really this impatient? In dynasty? Graham has never been a consistently higher scorer than Gronk. In fact, it's been the ither way around. Unless you think Gronk is never going to play again, I just can't see valuing Graham that much higher.

 

Run It Up

Footballguy
Are people really this impatient? In dynasty?
Not the people I play with apparently, I tried twice this season (week 3 and week 5) to trade Julius Thomas + a 2014 1st for Gronk, the second time I tried to add Rivers (the teams QBs are Romo, Sanchez and a few backups).

 
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