Hail to the Redskins! (1 Viewer)

[jwvdcw]

Enjoy your unbeaten status. It comes to an end in 6 days.

I invite you and SaintArnold to a friendly sig bet.

 

[redman]

The Seahawks came with a better gameplan in the second half and did much better. The Redskins' eating of the clock in the first half was still profoundly important though. That was the single most important stat, IMO, and will continue to be in most redskins games.

This is all true. The Seattle players were commenting on the fact that stopping the 'Skins late in the game, particularly on 3rd down, was much more difficult because of how long they'd been on the field (39 mins, including overtime). This was a solid win over a potent offensive team. In addition, the Seattle scoring drives occurred without Sean Taylor in the lineup, and they were already banged up at safety; the game-tying scoring drive occurred without Shawn Springs in the lineup due to another injury, and they were without Walt Harris for the entire game. Seattle made adjustments at halftime to be sure, but the loss of these players didn't help the defense.

Again, good teams find ways to win games. Last year the 'Skins weren't doing this and - surprise! - they weren't a good team.

 

[redman]

I haven't mentioned it yet, but I see myself rooting for the Redskins through the rest of the season. I see them being underdogs in several games. Going to make for an interesting contrast when having a better record but still being an underdog.

And besides, Brunell is a Husky. 

I heard this morning Denver is giving 7 right now. If I was a betting man, I'd take the Skins on that.

Assuming a healthy defense, I'd agree. I want to see what Harris, Springs and Taylor look like for the game first though.

 

[Babu Bhatt]

The Seahawks came with a better gameplan in the second half and did much better.  The Redskins' eating of the clock in the first half was still profoundly important though.  That was the single most important stat, IMO, and will continue to be in most redskins games.

This is all true. The Seattle players were commenting on the fact that stopping the 'Skins late in the game, particularly on 3rd down, was much more difficult because of how long they'd been on the field (39 mins, including overtime). This was a solid win over a potent offensive team. In addition, the Seattle scoring drives occurred without Sean Taylor in the lineup, and they were already banged up at safety; the game-tying scoring drive occurred without Shawn Springs in the lineup due to another injury, and they were without Walt Harris for the entire game. Seattle made adjustments at halftime to be sure, but the loss of these players didn't help the defense.

Again, good teams find ways to win games. Last year the 'Skins weren't doing this and - surprise! - they weren't a good team.

I had no idea Springs and Taylor were hurt.You have any news on the status of their injury??

 

[redman]

I think the Skins biggest offensive problem right now is short-yardage running. The line gets no push in obvious run situations. It's pretty telling when Gibbs throws two TD passes inside the five. He'd prefer to just run you over. They can't do that right now. Finishing drives in TDs rather than FGs requires a good power running game. I'd like to see them try to run outside on short-yardage runs a few times to try to open the middle up a bit. If the D can start creating turnovers, giving the O some decent field position, and they could get their jumbo package to blow people off the line, they wouldn't have to win close games.

The biggest question after the Dallas game was: What would those TD passes do for the offense? Well, it appears they opened up medium-range patterns. They took a couple shots deep against Seattle, but they mostly lived in the 10-20 yard range. Moss and Cooley used those opening to their advantage. Other than a couple quick hitters to Patten, they didn't throw a lot of the short stuff they did against Dallas. Then again Seattle didn't pressure Brunell as much as Dallas..

I'm not sure what the problem with the short-yardage runs is, but I think it will fix itself given that Portis is at least a respectable short-yardage runner and the line is solid. The play action passes for TD's in the red zone should also help loosen up the defenses they face.

I totally agree on the effect of the MNF passes. Almost all of those 3rd and longs were converted via the pass, which happened because Seattle was forced to keep their safeties back to defend against the deep pass. Aside from getting them a nice road win against a division rival, that was the significance of those throws. And incidentally, that means that Seattle knows that Brunell is healthy enough to be capable of making those throws again.

 

[redman]

The Seahawks came with a better gameplan in the second half and did much better.  The Redskins' eating of the clock in the first half was still profoundly important though.  That was the single most important stat, IMO, and will continue to be in most redskins games.

This is all true. The Seattle players were commenting on the fact that stopping the 'Skins late in the game, particularly on 3rd down, was much more difficult because of how long they'd been on the field (39 mins, including overtime). This was a solid win over a potent offensive team. In addition, the Seattle scoring drives occurred without Sean Taylor in the lineup, and they were already banged up at safety; the game-tying scoring drive occurred without Shawn Springs in the lineup due to another injury, and they were without Walt Harris for the entire game. Seattle made adjustments at halftime to be sure, but the loss of these players didn't help the defense.

Again, good teams find ways to win games. Last year the 'Skins weren't doing this and - surprise! - they weren't a good team.

I had no idea Springs and Taylor were hurt.You have any news on the status of their injury??

Taylor was out for most of the second half with a shoulder injury. Springs . . . I'll have to get back to you on that. I just know that he was out for almost the entire drive by the 'Hawks that tied the game on the DJax TD reception.

 

[redman]

Enjoy your unbeaten status.  It comes to an end in 6 days.

I invite you and SaintArnold to a friendly sig bet.

This is probably not a bet I take. I'm getting more optimistic that the 'Skins can win one out of two at Mile High and Arrowhead, but they'll easily end up 0-2 for that stretch and that's what I'd have to expect. I'd have to do a sig bet with a point spread in light of that.

 

[Babu Bhatt]

The Seahawks came with a better gameplan in the second half and did much better.  The Redskins' eating of the clock in the first half was still profoundly important though.  That was the single most important stat, IMO, and will continue to be in most redskins games.

This is all true. The Seattle players were commenting on the fact that stopping the 'Skins late in the game, particularly on 3rd down, was much more difficult because of how long they'd been on the field (39 mins, including overtime). This was a solid win over a potent offensive team. In addition, the Seattle scoring drives occurred without Sean Taylor in the lineup, and they were already banged up at safety; the game-tying scoring drive occurred without Shawn Springs in the lineup due to another injury, and they were without Walt Harris for the entire game. Seattle made adjustments at halftime to be sure, but the loss of these players didn't help the defense.

Again, good teams find ways to win games. Last year the 'Skins weren't doing this and - surprise! - they weren't a good team.

I had no idea Springs and Taylor were hurt.You have any news on the status of their injury??

Taylor was out for most of the second half with a shoulder injury. Springs . . . I'll have to get back to you on that. I just know that he was out for almost the entire drive by the 'Hawks that tied the game on the DJax TD reception.

Well, we really need Harris and Springs back ASAP. Rogers got burned by Engram all day, and Ade Jimoh isn't anything special. We can afford to lose Taylor for a while, we have good safety depth.

 

[dgreen]

The biggest question after the Dallas game was: What would those TD passes do for the offense? Well, it appears they opened up medium-range patterns. They took a couple shots deep against Seattle, but they mostly lived in the 10-20 yard range. Moss and Cooley used those opening to their advantage. Other than a couple quick hitters to Patten, they didn't throw a lot of the short stuff they did against Dallas. Then again Seattle didn't pressure Brunell as much as Dallas..

I totally agree on the effect of the MNF passes. Almost all of those 3rd and longs were converted via the pass, which happened because Seattle was forced to keep their safeties back to defend against the deep pass. Aside from getting them a nice road win against a division rival, that was the significance of those throws. And incidentally, that means that Seattle knows that Brunell is healthy enough to be capable of making those throws again.

On the Skins first play, the whole stadium stood up and pointed at Moss since he had single coverage and was apparently headed deep. He cut back and was open, but Brunell's pass was just a tad too short. I noticed that a few times yesterday. There were a few plays - I remember one to Thrash and another to Moss - where the pattern was just across the first down marker and the throw was just short. In each case, the WR came back, made the catch, and had to make a move to pick up the 1st down. Brunell was also short a deep ball to Patten that could have gone for a TD.

 

[redman]

The biggest question after the Dallas game was: What would those TD passes do for the offense?  Well, it appears they opened up medium-range patterns.  They took a couple shots deep against Seattle, but they mostly lived in the 10-20 yard range.  Moss and Cooley used those opening to their advantage.  Other than a couple quick hitters to Patten, they didn't throw a lot of the short stuff they did against Dallas.  Then again Seattle didn't pressure Brunell as much as Dallas..

I totally agree on the effect of the MNF passes. Almost all of those 3rd and longs were converted via the pass, which happened because Seattle was forced to keep their safeties back to defend against the deep pass. Aside from getting them a nice road win against a division rival, that was the significance of those throws. And incidentally, that means that Seattle knows that Brunell is healthy enough to be capable of making those throws again.

On the Skins first play, the whole stadium stood up and pointed at Moss since he had single coverage and was apparently headed deep. He cut back and was open, but Brunell's pass was just a tad too short. I noticed that a few times yesterday. There were a few plays - I remember one to Thrash and another to Moss - where the pattern was just across the first down marker and the throw was just short. In each case, the WR came back, made the catch, and had to make a move to pick up the 1st down. Brunell was also short a deep ball to Patten that could have gone for a TD.

Believe me, I'm not annointing Brunell as the next Elway or Marino. However, it's the threat of those throws that's the most valuable thing for us. Given the MNF game, and yesterday's medium range throw-fest, I expect things to start opening up for Portis in the near future.

 

[jwvdcw]

Enjoy your unbeaten status.  It comes to an end in 6 days.

I invite you and SaintArnold to a friendly sig bet.

This is probably not a bet I take. I'm getting more optimistic that the 'Skins can win one out of two at Mile High and Arrowhead, but they'll easily end up 0-2 for that stretch and that's what I'd have to expect. I'd have to do a sig bet with a point spread in light of that.

Yeah, but I'm a blind homer. And anyway, it'll only be a sig bet for one week, so its not too big of a deal.

 

[dgreen]

BTW, it's not just the next two (@ Den and KC) that will be tough. After that they have:SF@ NYGPHI@TBOAKSD

 

[jwvdcw]

BTW, it's not just the next two (@ Den and KC) that will be tough. After that they have:

SF

@ NYG

PHI

@TB

OAK

SD

3-3 is easily manageable from that stretch imho. SF and Oak at home should be definite wins. They'll be favored slightly over SD at home, but it might be close to pick 'em. The other games, they will definitely be underdogs, but their defense will keep them in ANY GAME and give them a shot to win them all.

 

[jwvdcw]

Question for all the haters: If they win in Denver, no matter how ugly it looks and how "lucky" they get, will you admit that this is a very good team?

 

[Number 28]

Enjoy your unbeaten status. It comes to an end in 6 days.

Will do!

 

[P Boy]

Question for all the haters: If they win in Denver, no matter how ugly it looks and how "lucky" they get, will you admit that this is a very good team?

I would admit that they are a good team if they can pull off a W in DEN. DEN's D is starting to show signs of becoming something special, and combined with a solid running game & a more than adequate (barely) passing game, DEN has the earmarks of being better than they have been in the immediate past.

 

[jwvdcw]

Question for all the haters: If they win in Denver, no matter how ugly it looks and how "lucky" they get, will you admit that this is a very good team?

I would admit that they are a good team if they can pull off a W in DEN. DEN's D is starting to show signs of becoming something special, and combined with a solid running game & a more than adequate (barely) passing game, DEN has the earmarks of being better than they have been in the immediate past.

 

[TouchdownMaker]

On the Skins first play, the whole stadium stood up and pointed at Moss since he had single coverage and was apparently headed deep.

Gibbs wanted to get him the ball more, he even said it in his press conference on redskins.com that I heard this morning. The guy is a huge asset that is lethal in signal coverage. I hope Brunell can still get him the long ball.

 

[dgreen]

On the Skins first play, the whole stadium stood up and pointed at Moss since he had single coverage and was apparently headed deep.

Gibbs wanted to get him the ball more, he even said it in his press conference on redskins.com that I heard this morning. The guy is a huge asset that is lethal in signal coverage. I hope Brunell can still get him the long ball.

He has definitely looked good. He hasn't had much trouble getting open so far.

 

[fatness]

He's been open more frequently than any Redskin receiver I remember in recent years. Patten is open fairly frequently, also, but Brunell is usually off on his timing of passes to Patten. A knock on the Skins last year was that their receivers were never open on midrange or deep patterns, and that seems to be remedied this year.edited to add: I was impressed yesterday by one catch Moss made. He was coming back towards the QB and the ball, tripped, and was beginning to fall towards the ball. Yet he made the catch on his way down.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Here is the updated sig, without grammer errors:

Here is your sig for the next 3 weeksSPACE GOES HERE(because your going to lose.)

I should of taken my own advice when I posted that a win is a winCOMMA I guess, and had the Skins ranked deep behind the Hawks.  Thinking that Washington would beat the 2004,SPACE2005 NFC West Champs was ignorant and foolish on my part.  I just pray that Seahawk 17 still respects me as a poster, and I promise too think before typing next time.

He has not posted one for me, so I guess he has gottten his head straight.

The best though, is the very spelling of "grammar"...

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

I've got $150 on Seattle at +2. I can't believe they're the underdog in this game. Washington couldn't score at a sorority party with a fistful of roofies.

I have a lot more than that on Washington.Good luck!

Good at grammar, very bad at betting.

 

[P Boy]

LOL!You think that's necessary?

 

[Tick]

The tool factor in this thread is getting overwhelming. It's gotten to the point where it's past annoying, and on into entertaining. Seems like it should be in the FFA now.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

The tool factor in this thread is getting overwhelming. It's gotten to the point where it's past annoying, and on into entertaining. Seems like it should be in the FFA now.

Actually, it's been drawing me to it.

 

[malice]

Late to the party because of medical reasons, but I said I'd give credit where credit is due, so here goes- but things still aren't all rosy in Washington:I only saw the last 5-6 mins of the 4th quarter and OT, but I will say this for the Skins- either Snyder sold his soul to the devil, or God is now a season ticket holder. The Skins final drive in OT was almost a carbon copy of their first TD drive in the Cowboys game. As mentioned before, it was likely partly due to the defense being tired, but the way it went down, I thought I was watching the MNF tape all over again. On paper, the Skins and the 'Hawks are very similar- 'Hawks being above-average on offense, average on defense, Skins above-average on defense, average on offense. Yes, there was a missed FG on each side, but one was blocked vs. one being missed- and the blocked FG for the Skins was after a costly sack (slight edge to SEA on ST). Both teams were -3 on turnovers going into the game. DJax was also somewhat limited- given that, the game lived up to expectations. Startling stat- on Sportscenter, they said Brunell was 11/15 for 138 yds on 3rd down. That means the rest of the game he went 9/21 for 88 yds. That's an impressive achievement, but you can't rely on that kind of performance game-in, game-out. The play calling is almost a given- short pass on 1st down, short run by Portis on 2nd down, pass on 3rd for 9-12 yds, wash, rinse, repeat. Another thing that needs to improve- turnovers. Even Gibbs said in his press conference yesterday- "I think we're the only 3-0 team to have a negative turnover ratio." Credit to him for recognizing that fact and not brushing it under the carpet. The defense has to do better in that area to eliminate the need for all the 3rd and longs that might not come through in the future.All things said, I think the honeymoon is over heading to DEN and KC- they're both tough- if not the toughest- places to win on the road, and as long as DEN gets their corners back, it's going to be hard to rely on all those 3rd and long conversions. KC is also a dangerous team right now after having their last game slip through their fingers at home. I still see an 8-8 finish for the Skins, but a wildcard spot is looking more possible considering their competition is likely CAR, DAL, and STL. CAR is the only decent contender out of those three right now because of their depth...but there's a long season ahead.

 

[jwvdcw]

Late to the party because of medical reasons, but I said I'd give credit where credit is due, so here goes- but things still aren't all rosy in Washington:

I only saw the last 5-6 mins of the 4th quarter and OT, but I will say this for the Skins- either Snyder sold his soul to the devil, or God is now a season ticket holder. The Skins final drive in OT was almost a carbon copy of their first TD drive in the Cowboys game. As mentioned before, it was likely partly due to the defense being tired, but the way it went down, I thought I was watching the MNF tape all over again. On paper, the Skins and the 'Hawks are very similar- 'Hawks being above-average on offense, average on defense, Skins above-average on defense, average on offense. Yes, there was a missed FG on each side, but one was blocked vs. one being missed- and the blocked FG for the Skins was after a costly sack (slight edge to SEA on ST). Both teams were -3 on turnovers going into the game. DJax was also somewhat limited- given that, the game lived up to expectations.

Startling stat- on Sportscenter, they said Brunell was 11/15 for 138 yds on 3rd down. That means the rest of the game he went 9/21 for 88 yds. That's an impressive achievement, but you can't rely on that kind of performance game-in, game-out. The play calling is almost a given- short pass on 1st down, short run by Portis on 2nd down, pass on 3rd for 9-12 yds, wash, rinse, repeat. Another thing that needs to improve- turnovers. Even Gibbs said in his press conference yesterday- "I think we're the only 3-0 team to have a negative turnover ratio." Credit to him for recognizing that fact and not brushing it under the carpet. The defense has to do better in that area to eliminate the need for all the 3rd and longs that might not come through in the future.

All things said, I think the honeymoon is over heading to DEN and KC- they're both tough- if not the toughest- places to win on the road, and as long as DEN gets their corners back, it's going to be hard to rely on all those 3rd and long conversions. KC is also a dangerous team right now after having their last game slip through their fingers at home. I still see an 8-8 finish for the Skins, but a wildcard spot is looking more possible considering their competition is likely CAR, DAL, and STL. CAR is the only decent contender out of those three right now because of their depth...but there's a long season ahead.

Thats funny because you went on to make a ton of excuses and do everything but give the Skins credit imho.All I want is this: If the Skins can win one of the next two against Den and KC, I want all of the haters to finally give them their due. And I'm telling you ahead of time that if they win it will be ugly. They might get totally outplayed, they might only score late, they might get the benefit of a bad call, the other team may mess up in a huge way, but whatever......no more excuses! If the Skins can go 1-1 or 2-0 on this trip, then they deserve your respect. Is that reasonable of me to ask?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I'm a little worried about the Skins D after the Seattle game. Last year's Skins wouldn't have allowed that 2nd half comeback.

 

[redman]

I'm a little worried about the Skins D after the Seattle game. Last year's Skins wouldn't have allowed that 2nd half comeback.

Shawn Springs was out of the game during that DJax TD drive, and of course Walt Harris was inactive. I'm not worried at all given that both guys are expected back for the Denver game. If the 'Skins hold the Broncos to less than 20 points, they should win IMHO. Denver wants to play a game in which they get out to an early, multiple score lead and force Washington's offense to play catch-up. But if it's a close game, that plays into the 'Skins hands IMHO.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Late to the party because of medical reasons, but I said I'd give credit where credit is due, so here goes- but things still aren't all rosy in Washington:

I only saw the last 5-6 mins of the 4th quarter and OT, but I will say this for the Skins- either Snyder sold his soul to the devil, or God is now a season ticket holder. The Skins final drive in OT was almost a carbon copy of their first TD drive in the Cowboys game. As mentioned before, it was likely partly due to the defense being tired, but the way it went down, I thought I was watching the MNF tape all over again. On paper, the Skins and the 'Hawks are very similar- 'Hawks being above-average on offense, average on defense, Skins above-average on defense, average on offense. Yes, there was a missed FG on each side, but one was blocked vs. one being missed- and the blocked FG for the Skins was after a costly sack (slight edge to SEA on ST). Both teams were -3 on turnovers going into the game. DJax was also somewhat limited- given that, the game lived up to expectations.

Startling stat- on Sportscenter, they said Brunell was 11/15 for 138 yds on 3rd down. That means the rest of the game he went 9/21 for 88 yds. That's an impressive achievement, but you can't rely on that kind of performance game-in, game-out. The play calling is almost a given- short pass on 1st down, short run by Portis on 2nd down, pass on 3rd for 9-12 yds, wash, rinse, repeat. Another thing that needs to improve- turnovers. Even Gibbs said in his press conference yesterday- "I think we're the only 3-0 team to have a negative turnover ratio." Credit to him for recognizing that fact and not brushing it under the carpet. The defense has to do better in that area to eliminate the need for all the 3rd and longs that might not come through in the future.

All things said, I think the honeymoon is over heading to DEN and KC- they're both tough- if not the toughest- places to win on the road, and as long as DEN gets their corners back, it's going to be hard to rely on all those 3rd and long conversions. KC is also a dangerous team right now after having their last game slip through their fingers at home. I still see an 8-8 finish for the Skins, but a wildcard spot is looking more possible considering their competition is likely CAR, DAL, and STL. CAR is the only decent contender out of those three right now because of their depth...but there's a long season ahead.

I have to laugh at Malice's comments/excuses. Um, okay I'll give credit...and then take it away. And believe me, I'm no Skins fan.Dude, you watched the last 5/6 minutes, and read some stat lines. Do you realize the only part of that game Seattle put anything together was that last drive?

Did you realize Washington had lost defensive players, and Seattle was able to expoit it?

You saw only a piece of the puzzle, and make the rest of your assumptions of the game from some stats...all-the-while clinging to your earlier opinions with excuses.

At least make a more informed opinion than that. Bias only hurts you.

 

[jbz]

I'm a little worried about the Skins D after the Seattle game. Last year's Skins wouldn't have allowed that 2nd half comeback.

The Skins major problem on D is a lack of pass rush and depth. This was evident as the game wore on and Seattle started being able to move the ball. Seattle had a 91 yard field to go on that last TD drive and they did it rather easily. Granted there was some injuries in the secondary, but the pass rush and depth issues limit Williams. He has to send pressure from his LBs and DBs. This opens up his thin secondary to get passed on. If he drops back and doesn't rush, there's no pressure on the QB and the secondary still gets carved apart. I hope they figure out a way to get Lavar Arrington in the game, at least in obvious passing situations. Chris Clemons was good at it last year too.

 

[dgreen]

I'm a little worried about the Skins D after the Seattle game. Last year's Skins wouldn't have allowed that 2nd half comeback.

Shawn Springs was out of the game during that DJax TD drive, and of course Walt Harris was inactive. I'm not worried at all given that both guys are expected back for the Denver game. If the 'Skins hold the Broncos to less than 20 points, they should win IMHO. Denver wants to play a game in which they get out to an early, multiple score lead and force Washington's offense to play catch-up. But if it's a close game, that plays into the 'Skins hands IMHO.

Springs was out? I know Sean Taylor was out.

 

[fatness]

Springs was out? I know Sean Taylor was out.

Their secondary was so banged-up going into the game that Taylor was their 3rd cornerback. And in response to the post above about Arrington, I don't think you'll be seeing him much this year. His role has been reduced each game, and he was in on 2 plays against Seattle. Gibbs just says noncommittal things about it, but Joe Bugel said on radio yesterday that Arrington won't be playing until he gives up the "make one good play, be out of position the next 5 plays" habits. And there's some talk Arrington refused to play on special teams. He's their 5th LB right now.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Springs was out?  I know Sean Taylor was out.

Their secondary was so banged-up going into the game that Taylor was their 3rd cornerback. And in response to the post above about Arrington, I don't think you'll be seeing him much this year. His role has been reduced each game, and he was in on 2 plays against Seattle. Gibbs just says noncommittal things about it, but Joe Bugel said on radio yesterday that Arrington won't be playing until he gives up the "make one good play, be out of position the next 5 plays" habits. And there's some talk Arrington refused to play on special teams. He's their 5th LB right now.

 

[dgreen]

Speaking of the Redskins horrible offense, does anyone know where to get starting field position data for the league? I'm guessing the Redskins are dead last. I can only remember one "drive" that started in the opponent's territory and that was after Orton's fumble at the end of the game and the Skins just kneeled down. A big part of producing points is not having to go 80 yards every time.

 

[jwvdcw]

I'm a little worried about the Skins D after the Seattle game.  Last year's Skins wouldn't have allowed that 2nd half comeback.

The Skins major problem on D is a lack of pass rush and depth. This was evident as the game wore on and Seattle started being able to move the ball. Seattle had a 91 yard field to go on that last TD drive and they did it rather easily. Granted there was some injuries in the secondary, but the pass rush and depth issues limit Williams. He has to send pressure from his LBs and DBs. This opens up his thin secondary to get passed on. If he drops back and doesn't rush, there's no pressure on the QB and the secondary still gets carved apart. I hope they figure out a way to get Lavar Arrington in the game, at least in obvious passing situations. Chris Clemons was good at it last year too.

Can someone more in the know give me the details of the Arrington situation? It just seems like such a waste of talent for a 2nd overall pick/3 time pro bowler to not be playing at all!As for the pass rush, you have a good point, but don't forget that the pass rush was responsible for winning the Bears game when the sacked Orton and forced a fumble to end things.

 

[gipper80]

LOL...yeah, look what they have done.They beat the ragged Cowpies...with some last second heroics. They beat the perenial toilet bowl Seahawks...with some last second heroics. And what else were you bragging about...the freaking Bears? LMAO...a 1/2 game lead, after having played nobody...and two games against Philly in their future...LMAO.Put down the champagne, man...it aint happening for Washington.

 

[Sidewinder16]

LOL...yeah, look what they have done.

They beat the ragged Cowpies...with some last second heroics. They beat the perenial toilet bowl Seahawks...with some last second heroics. And what else were you bragging about...the freaking Bears?

LMAO...a 1/2 game lead, after having played nobody...and two games against Philly in their future...LMAO.

Put down the champagne, man...it aint happening for Washington.

:honda:You're a little late to the party.

I think jwvdcw has a sig bet waiting for you.

 

[fatness]

Can someone more in the know give me the details of the Arrington situation? It just seems like such a waste of talent for a 2nd overall pick/3 time pro bowler to not be playing at all!

Lots of reports are surfacing:Washington Post article yesterday

The defense has thrived in his absence -- Arrington has played only two full games since this coaching staff took over before the 2004 season -- and Arrington's playing time has diminished in each game this season, with him getting on the field for successive plays in the second quarter against Seattle and spending the rest of the afternoon on the sidelines with his helmet off and nary a grass stain on his uniform. Chris Clemons is playing in many of the situations Arrington did in Week 1.

Washington Post article today

The biggest question regarding linebacker LaVar Arrington's future in Washington may not be whether he will be here beyond this season, but when he will depart. Several NFL general managers and player agents expect Arrington, once the face of the organization and now relegated to the lower depths of the roster, to be playing elsewhere in 2006 given his hefty contract, recent history with the club, injuries and lack of significance on this defense.

Arrington, 27, has a $12.05 million salary cap figure in 2006 -- almost twice that of any other Redskins player -- and is scheduled to receive a $6.5 million roster bonus July 15; four general managers and three prominent agents who have assessed the situation agreed that those factors likely will lead to an offseason departure. Arrington himself referred to an apparent shift of the team away from him Monday, and alluded to possibly having to pass physicals for other teams to prove that his surgically repaired knee is healed. Both Arrington and Coach Joe Gibbs have said he is fit enough to play.

Arrington is virtually ensured of being here for the duration of this season. Dealing him before the Oct. 18 trade deadline would require $12 million of salary cap space for Washington; the Redskins are about $1.6 million under the cap, league sources said. Washington could attempt to deal him in the offseason, when it could absorb that kind of cap hit, but considering he may have gone nearly two seasons without playing full time by then, and the fact that other teams may feel the Redskins are resigned to having to cut him eventually, getting value for the three-time Pro Bowler could prove difficult. Two general managers suggested a second- or third-round pick as possible value for Arrington, if healthy.

Picking up Arrington's roster bonus in July would require Washington to pay him $7 million total for 2006 (bonus plus base salary), and would also ensure he counts $12 million against its 2006 cap. Cutting Arrington in March would require a $12.14 million hit, but he would be off Washington's books after 2006; the team has incurred steep penalties in the past to make such moves. (Arrington's contract carries a $6.5 million cap figure in 2007 and $9.133 million in 2008, for example, but that would disappear if he were released or traded in March.)

If there is no extension to the current collective bargaining agreement this season, there will be no June 1 cut date in 2006, negating the opportunity to spread cap hits over two seasons. However, the Redskins may opt to wait beyond March, save about $200,000 and carry Arrington's $12 million figure against their salary cap during that critical month when free agency begins, in hopes of an extension later in the spring that would restore the June 1 date and allow them to spread Arrington's cap figure over two seasons.

Arrington has essentially been relegated to the fifth linebacker on the roster, behind the three starters, as well as reserve Chris Clemons. Khary Campbell is the sixth linebacker, but even he gets on the field more than Arrington, given his key role on special teams. Arrington took part in two plays in Sunday's win over Seattle and sat out the entire second half despite the Seahawks' comeback, which included a 91-yard drive that tied the game at 17 in the waning minutes. The coaches have given no indication that Arrington's role will increase anytime soon, and it may require injuries to other linebackers for him to play regularly.

Associated Press article

In the jubilation of three thrilling victories and a surprising first-place perch atop the NFC East, one nagging question persists for the Washington Redskins. What happened to LaVar Arrington?

Coach Joe Gibbs finally gave the direct answer Monday: "He's not a starter."

He has had a history of loyalty to the owner, Snyder, and not to any head coaches on the team. When things didn't go his way he always appealed to Snyder. That avenue is not open to him any more; Snyder doesn't undercut Gibbs and his staff. Arrington has also gotten lots of air time in Washington media, more than his play deserved, because he's likeable, willing to talk, and wrongly perceived by the media as a "team leader" or "face of the Redskins". All that media time has become an embarrassment to him now. He hasn't bought in to what Gibbs and the coaching staff are doing, he threatened to go to after the team over his contract and over his injury. So they owe him no breaks.And he can't win a starting job unless he plays their way ---- within the system, not freelancing.

 

[jwvdcw]

LOL...yeah, look what they have done.

They beat the ragged Cowpies...with some last second heroics. They beat the perenial toilet bowl Seahawks...with some last second heroics. And what else were you bragging about...the freaking Bears?

LMAO...a 1/2 game lead, after having played nobody...and two games against Philly in their future...LMAO.

Put down the champagne, man...it aint happening for Washington.

A 2-2 Cowboys team that has beaten SD on the road is ragged?A first place Seahawk team that 90% of the people here are predicting to make the playoffs and made the playoffs each of the past few years is a perenial toilet bowl team?

Let me guess you're more impressed with the Bucs(have beaten Min, Det, GB, Buf) and the Bengals(have beaten Cle, Chi, Min, Hous)?

Either you're completely fishing or you're just not very bright...either way, I don't really care to carry on this discussion much further with you.

 

[jwvdcw]

Can someone more in the know give me the details of the Arrington situation? It just seems like such a waste of talent for a 2nd overall pick/3 time pro bowler to not be playing at all!

Lots of reports are surfacing:Washington Post article yesterday

The defense has thrived in his absence -- Arrington has played only two full games since this coaching staff took over before the 2004 season -- and Arrington's playing time has diminished in each game this season, with him getting on the field for successive plays in the second quarter against Seattle and spending the rest of the afternoon on the sidelines with his helmet off and nary a grass stain on his uniform. Chris Clemons is playing in many of the situations Arrington did in Week 1.

Washington Post article today

The biggest question regarding linebacker LaVar Arrington's future in Washington may not be whether he will be here beyond this season, but when he will depart. Several NFL general managers and player agents expect Arrington, once the face of the organization and now relegated to the lower depths of the roster, to be playing elsewhere in 2006 given his hefty contract, recent history with the club, injuries and lack of significance on this defense.

Arrington, 27, has a $12.05 million salary cap figure in 2006 -- almost twice that of any other Redskins player -- and is scheduled to receive a $6.5 million roster bonus July 15; four general managers and three prominent agents who have assessed the situation agreed that those factors likely will lead to an offseason departure. Arrington himself referred to an apparent shift of the team away from him Monday, and alluded to possibly having to pass physicals for other teams to prove that his surgically repaired knee is healed. Both Arrington and Coach Joe Gibbs have said he is fit enough to play.

Arrington is virtually ensured of being here for the duration of this season. Dealing him before the Oct. 18 trade deadline would require $12 million of salary cap space for Washington; the Redskins are about $1.6 million under the cap, league sources said. Washington could attempt to deal him in the offseason, when it could absorb that kind of cap hit, but considering he may have gone nearly two seasons without playing full time by then, and the fact that other teams may feel the Redskins are resigned to having to cut him eventually, getting value for the three-time Pro Bowler could prove difficult. Two general managers suggested a second- or third-round pick as possible value for Arrington, if healthy.

Picking up Arrington's roster bonus in July would require Washington to pay him $7 million total for 2006 (bonus plus base salary), and would also ensure he counts $12 million against its 2006 cap. Cutting Arrington in March would require a $12.14 million hit, but he would be off Washington's books after 2006; the team has incurred steep penalties in the past to make such moves. (Arrington's contract carries a $6.5 million cap figure in 2007 and $9.133 million in 2008, for example, but that would disappear if he were released or traded in March.)

If there is no extension to the current collective bargaining agreement this season, there will be no June 1 cut date in 2006, negating the opportunity to spread cap hits over two seasons. However, the Redskins may opt to wait beyond March, save about $200,000 and carry Arrington's $12 million figure against their salary cap during that critical month when free agency begins, in hopes of an extension later in the spring that would restore the June 1 date and allow them to spread Arrington's cap figure over two seasons.

Arrington has essentially been relegated to the fifth linebacker on the roster, behind the three starters, as well as reserve Chris Clemons. Khary Campbell is the sixth linebacker, but even he gets on the field more than Arrington, given his key role on special teams. Arrington took part in two plays in Sunday's win over Seattle and sat out the entire second half despite the Seahawks' comeback, which included a 91-yard drive that tied the game at 17 in the waning minutes. The coaches have given no indication that Arrington's role will increase anytime soon, and it may require injuries to other linebackers for him to play regularly.

Associated Press article

In the jubilation of three thrilling victories and a surprising first-place perch atop the NFC East, one nagging question persists for the Washington Redskins. What happened to LaVar Arrington?

Coach Joe Gibbs finally gave the direct answer Monday: "He's not a starter."

He has had a history of loyalty to the owner, Snyder, and not to any head coaches on the team. When things didn't go his way he always appealed to Snyder. That avenue is not open to him any more; Snyder doesn't undercut Gibbs and his staff. Arrington has also gotten lots of air time in Washington media, more than his play deserved, because he's likeable, willing to talk, and wrongly perceived by the media as a "team leader" or "face of the Redskins". All that media time has become an embarrassment to him now. He hasn't bought in to what Gibbs and the coaching staff are doing, he threatened to go to after the team over his contract and over his injury. So they owe him no breaks.And he can't win a starting job unless he plays their way ---- within the system, not freelancing.

Questions for Skins fans out there....LA is a former 2nd overall pick a 3 time pro bowler, so obviously he has a ton of talent. What has happened:

1.He never really was that talented. He made the pro bowl 3 teams on name recognition only.

2.He has regressed lately due to poor work ethic.

3.He doesn't get along with Gibbs personally, and Gibbs wants to play "team players" over a "me-first" guy.

4.He is still talented, but he is great in a free lance system. This system is anything but that, and he is not very good in this system.

And as a follow up question: What should the Skins do with him as a result?

 

[jbz]

1. Lavar is talented. He's overrated, but he's a talented LBer no question. Name recognition starts after you get yourself up to a certain level. Not all high draft picks are automatically "name" players. Lavar IMO was truly a Pro Bowl player 2 out of those 3 years. 2. He's been hampered with a knee injury that took a lot longer to heal then it should have. He also has a rep of being a free-lancer on D and in Gregg Williams' defense, everyone has a responsibility. There's no room for players with their own agendas or who will blow their assignments. This could be the reasons for Arrington's current status3. This could very well be true. Gibbs has one big rule. Don't embarass the organization. Lavar has publicly thrown the organization under a bus due to his contract squabbles (he claims he got jobbed out of 6+ million in bonus money on his new deal). He also had a strange outburst to the media regarding his injury and blasted the Redskins about how they handled it. He basically said the Skins made him play when he wasn't ready and he doesn't feel they support him and he's on his own. Uh...not a good move Lavar. No one is above the team in Joe Gibbs' eyes and Lavar is being the squeaky wheel making all the noise about this and that. 4. See #2. What should the Skins do with him? Well they can't do anything but hope the light turns on in his head at this point. As a Redskins fan, I hope this is a humbling experience for him and it motivates him to put in the necessary work. Williams did something similar to Sean Taylor and he started to get it. Arrington is still one of the biggest playmakers on the team and they badly need one. The other LBs are solid and know their role, but they can't make the game changing type hits/plays Lavar can. After this year though, who knows. Right now he's untradable so that talk should be out the window. His cap number and the Skins cap room just won;t allow it. However, in the offseason anything is possible since the Skins will be getting a lot of cap space back from the Coles dead money being gone and what not.

 

[Babu Bhatt]

I think clearly LaVar is very talented, I can't question that. He is one of the fastest linebackers in the league. However, because of his tremendous talent, his technique has never been one of the best. Gregg Williams is big on technique, on sure tackles. LaVar has been known to go for the big hit instead of the boring wrap-up tackle. So, that is part of his benching.LaVar is also a high-profile player. In a way, Gregg Willuiams doesn't like this. He doesn't want one player to be bigger than the team. Remember last year, when despite being the best safety pretty clearly, sean Taylor was a backup entering the season. It was partly for this reason, to keep him from being bigger than the team. Right now Williams has a group of players with no clear outstanding player among them, and he likes that. LaVar starting would disrupt that.Also, I don't think they really are confident that he is fully recovered. He has yet to play well enough to prove that. And until one of the linebackers being used right now gets hurt or severly underperforms (Marcus Washington, Warrick Holdman, Lemar Marshall, Chris Clemons, Khary Campbell) he has no reason to make a change.I think the thing to do, if I was LaVar Arrington, would be to play special teams. Take a lesson from Jeremiah Trotter last year, who was a sort of outcast who had to re-prove himself to his teammates. LaVar should play special teams with a vigor and abandon and get noticed, make some tackles, and don't worry about the number of plays he gets. If he does this, he'll be back on the field in no time.Just my take.

 

[fatness]

LA is a former 2nd overall pick a 3 time pro bowler, so obviously he has a ton of talent. What has happened:

1.He never really was that talented. No, he was and is talented. He made the pro bowl 3 teams on name recognition only. Partly on play, partly on name recognition.

2.He has regressed lately due to poor work ethic. No, he works hard.

3.He doesn't get along with Gibbs personally, don't know and Gibbs wants to play "team players" over a "me-first" guy. very definitely true

4.He is still talented, but he is great in a free lance system. true This system is anything but that, and he is not very good in this system. Hard to say, since he has not played in this system much, and isn't yet demonstrating to coaches that he will stick with the system instead of freelancing

And as a follow up question: What should the Skins do with him as a result? trade him sometime after the season for as high a draft pick as they can get, probably second or third round

 

[jwvdcw]

1. Lavar is talented. He's overrated, but he's a talented LBer no question. Name recognition starts after you get yourself up to a certain level. Not all high draft picks are automatically "name" players. Lavar IMO was truly a Pro Bowl player 2 out of those 3 years.

2. He's been hampered with a knee injury that took a lot longer to heal then it should have. He also has a rep of being a free-lancer on D and in Gregg Williams' defense, everyone has a responsibility. There's no room for players with their own agendas or who will blow their assignments. This could be the reasons for Arrington's current status

3. This could very well be true. Gibbs has one big rule. Don't embarass the organization. Lavar has publicly thrown the organization under a bus due to his contract squabbles (he claims he got jobbed out of 6+ million in bonus money on his new deal). He also had a strange outburst to the media regarding his injury and blasted the Redskins about how they handled it. He basically said the Skins made him play when he wasn't ready and he doesn't feel they support him and he's on his own. Uh...not a good move Lavar. No one is above the team in Joe Gibbs' eyes and Lavar is being the squeaky wheel making all the noise about this and that.

4. See #2.

What should the Skins do with him? Well they can't do anything but hope the light turns on in his head at this point. As a Redskins fan, I hope this is a humbling experience for him and it motivates him to put in the necessary work. Williams did something similar to Sean Taylor and he started to get it. Arrington is still one of the biggest playmakers on the team and they badly need one. The other LBs are solid and know their role, but they can't make the game changing type hits/plays Lavar can. After this year though, who knows. Right now he's untradable so that talk should be out the window. His cap number and the Skins cap room just won;t allow it. However, in the offseason anything is possible since the Skins will be getting a lot of cap space back from the Coles dead money being gone and what not.

thanks for the informative post...just to clarify, I was offering up possible suggestions as to the answer of "what has happened to him?" I am not saying that any of my 4 statements are true.

 

[jwvdcw]

What should the Skins do with him? Well they can't do anything but hope the light turns on in his head at this point.

Is there team out there that employees more of a free lance system that is weak at LB...I know regular season trades are few in the NFL, but maybe they could do it in the offseason. I really am saddened by all this....I own his jersey and have always been a fan of his hard hitting style.

 

[jwvdcw]

I think clearly LaVar is very talented, I can't question that. He is one of the fastest linebackers in the league. However, because of his tremendous talent, his technique has never been one of the best. Gregg Williams is big on technique, on sure tackles. LaVar has been known to go for the big hit instead of the boring wrap-up tackle. So, that is part of his benching.

LaVar is also a high-profile player. In a way, Gregg Willuiams doesn't like this. He doesn't want one player to be bigger than the team. Remember last year, when despite being the best safety pretty clearly, sean Taylor was a backup entering the season. It was partly for this reason, to keep him from being bigger than the team. Right now Williams has a group of players with no clear outstanding player among them, and he likes that. LaVar starting would disrupt that.

Also, I don't think they really are confident that he is fully recovered. He has yet to play well enough to prove that. And until one of the linebackers being used right now gets hurt or severly underperforms (Marcus Washington, Warrick Holdman, Lemar Marshall, Chris Clemons, Khary Campbell) he has no reason to make a change.

I think the thing to do, if I was LaVar Arrington, would be to play special teams. Take a lesson from Jeremiah Trotter last year, who was a sort of outcast who had to re-prove himself to his teammates. LaVar should play special teams with a vigor and abandon and get noticed, make some tackles, and don't worry about the number of plays he gets. If he does this, he'll be back on the field in no time.

Just my take.

wow talk about a no name defense....I'm a homer and I couldn't tell you much about those guys.

 

[jwvdcw]

And as a follow up question: What should the Skins do with him as a result? trade him sometime after the season for as high a draft pick as they can get, probably second or third round

jeez...I would be very reluctant to do that. You're talking about a #2 overall pick who has lived up to the hype by going to 3 pro bowls...and to get a 3rd rounder only possibly. I think I'd rather they try to work with him and make him happy.

 

[jbz]

Lavar's perceived value is low right now. Coming off a knee injury, not playing because of an apparent bad attitude or not being able to fit the system. The Skins are better off showcasing him if they do plan on parting ways. I don't think they've come to that decision just yet.

 

[richn]

FYI - Skins get taken to the cleaners this week.....LAY THE POINTS!!!!!!!