Halladay or Sabathia? (1 Viewer)

[BoomBoom]

I have a surplus of closers (we can start 4, and I have 5 as well as Accardo), and one team in my league is down to one closer, so he's interested in making a deal.

Basically, he offered me Halladay for Ian Snell and Joe Borowski.

He also has Sabathia, who has a higher WHIP and slightly higher ERA but more K's and one more win. I'm a little nervous about dealing for Halladay given his arm troubles the past few years and the fact he was throwing in the mid-80's in his last start when he got rocked. The AL East is also much tougher offensively than the AL Central (who Sabathia faces). Am I overthinking this one? I know Halladay is a top-10 pitcher when healthy and I'm hurting in wins as my other SP's (aside from Johan, I have Cain, Vazquez, Snell, and Shields) are all struggling to get wins.

I'm middle of the pack in K's though Cain should pick up more K's going forward (did the same thing last year).

Pull the trigger for Halladay before he pulls it back, or insist on Sabathia? Thanks!

 

[fred_1_15301]

I have a surplus of closers (we can start 4, and I have 5 as well as Accardo), and one team in my league is down to one closer, so he's interested in making a deal. Basically, he offered me Halladay for Ian Snell and Joe Borowski. He also has Sabathia, who has a higher WHIP and slightly higher ERA but more K's and one more win. I'm a little nervous about dealing for Halladay given his arm troubles the past few years and the fact he was throwing in the mid-80's in his last start when he got rocked. The AL East is also much tougher offensively than the AL Central (who Sabathia faces). Am I overthinking this one? I know Halladay is a top-10 pitcher when healthy and I'm hurting in wins as my other SP's (aside from Johan, I have Cain, Vazquez, Snell, and Shields) are all struggling to get wins. I'm middle of the pack in K's though Cain should pick up more K's going forward (did the same thing last year). Pull the trigger for Halladay before he pulls it back, or insist on Sabathia? Thanks!

First of all, take this trade in a heartbeat. Secondly, Halladay is >>>>>>>>> Sabathia over the long run of the season. Halladay is not just a top 10 pitcher.....he's a top 5 pitcher. Wasn't it 2 starts ago when Halladay had around 10 Ks? Don't let one bad start fool you into thinking that Halladay and Sabathia are even on the same planet.

 

[Bobcat10]

I have a surplus of closers (we can start 4, and I have 5 as well as Accardo), and one team in my league is down to one closer, so he's interested in making a deal. Basically, he offered me Halladay for Ian Snell and Joe Borowski. He also has Sabathia, who has a higher WHIP and slightly higher ERA but more K's and one more win. I'm a little nervous about dealing for Halladay given his arm troubles the past few years and the fact he was throwing in the mid-80's in his last start when he got rocked. The AL East is also much tougher offensively than the AL Central (who Sabathia faces). Am I overthinking this one? I know Halladay is a top-10 pitcher when healthy and I'm hurting in wins as my other SP's (aside from Johan, I have Cain, Vazquez, Snell, and Shields) are all struggling to get wins. I'm middle of the pack in K's though Cain should pick up more K's going forward (did the same thing last year). Pull the trigger for Halladay before he pulls it back, or insist on Sabathia? Thanks!

First of all, take this trade in a heartbeat. Secondly, Halladay is >>>>>>>>> Sabathia over the long run of the season. Halladay is not just a top 10 pitcher.....he's a top 5 pitcher. Wasn't it 2 starts ago when Halladay had around 10 Ks? Don't let one bad start fool you into thinking that Halladay and Sabathia are even on the same planet.

Not to knock Halladay, because he is a top line pitcher, but I think you are a little on the extreme side. Halladay will never approach his '03 campaign again -- 266 innings w/ 204 K's. Since then he's never topped more than 132 K's and he had two injury plagued years out of three. His 10K game you speak of was following a 10 inning outing where he had 2 K's, so there is some inconsistancy with Halladay. He's had more <5k games this year than >5. CC on the other hand has had >7Ks in every start besides one this year.CC has also been injured the past few years, but it was always right out of spring training, and he's never pitched less than 180 innings in his career. In a normal year, he's going to get about 30-40 K's more than Halladay, but this year he's on a fantastic K pace with more K's than innings pitched.I think CC is the play here as his upside is much greater than Halladay, and I think he plays on the better team (homer ).

 

[Tough As Nails]

Show me one prognosticator that had Halladay ranked lower than Sabathia this year. Nobody did. Sabathia is off to a great start...but no way is he worth more than Halladay.

 

[Bobcat10]

Show me one prognosticator that had Halladay ranked lower than Sabathia this year. Nobody did. Sabathia is off to a great start...but no way is he worth more than Halladay.

I don't see how that is relevant here. Who cares that prog's ranked Halladay higher because of his name.The numbers last year were very close besides wins....and iirc CC got little run support in his starts.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I have a surplus of closers (we can start 4, and I have 5 as well as Accardo), and one team in my league is down to one closer, so he's interested in making a deal. Basically, he offered me Halladay for Ian Snell and Joe Borowski. He also has Sabathia, who has a higher WHIP and slightly higher ERA but more K's and one more win. I'm a little nervous about dealing for Halladay given his arm troubles the past few years and the fact he was throwing in the mid-80's in his last start when he got rocked. The AL East is also much tougher offensively than the AL Central (who Sabathia faces). Am I overthinking this one? I know Halladay is a top-10 pitcher when healthy and I'm hurting in wins as my other SP's (aside from Johan, I have Cain, Vazquez, Snell, and Shields) are all struggling to get wins. I'm middle of the pack in K's though Cain should pick up more K's going forward (did the same thing last year). Pull the trigger for Halladay before he pulls it back, or insist on Sabathia? Thanks!

First of all, take this trade in a heartbeat. Secondly, Halladay is >>>>>>>>> Sabathia over the long run of the season. Halladay is not just a top 10 pitcher.....he's a top 5 pitcher. Wasn't it 2 starts ago when Halladay had around 10 Ks? Don't let one bad start fool you into thinking that Halladay and Sabathia are even on the same planet.

Not to knock Halladay, because he is a top line pitcher, but I think you are a little on the extreme side. Halladay will never approach his '03 campaign again -- 266 innings w/ 204 K's. Since then he's never topped more than 132 K's and he had two injury plagued years out of three. His 10K game you speak of was following a 10 inning outing where he had 2 K's, so there is some inconsistancy with Halladay. He's had more <5k games this year than >5. CC on the other hand has had >7Ks in every start besides one this year.CC has also been injured the past few years, but it was always right out of spring training, and he's never pitched less than 180 innings in his career. In a normal year, he's going to get about 30-40 K's more than Halladay, but this year he's on a fantastic K pace with more K's than innings pitched.I think CC is the play here as his upside is much greater than Halladay, and I think he plays on the better team (homer ).

Lets compare the numbers for Halladay and Sabathia by year:Halladay2003--ERA=3.25,WHIP=1.07,K/IP ratio=0.772004--ERA=4.20,WHIP=1.35,K/IP ratio=0.712005--ERA=2.41,WHIP=0.96,K/IP ratio=0.772006--ERA=3.19,WHIP=1.10,K/IP ratio=0.60Sabathia2003--ERA=3.60,WHIP=1.30,K/IP ratio=0.722004--ERA=4.12,WHIP=1.32,K/IP ratio=0.742005--ERA=4.03,WHIP=1.26,K/IP ratio=0.822006--ERA=3.22,WHIP=1.17,K/IP ratio=0.90Halladay was injured in 2004 and 2005 but it didn't seem to drop his numbers substantially as he had a very good year in 2006 and is off to a nice start (with the exception of one start) this year. If the OP is really only concerned with Ks, then I would agree that Sabathia is the play. However, when looking at the total package, I think Halladay is a more consistent pitcher with greater upside.

 

[guru_007]

Lets compare the numbers for Halladay and Sabathia by year:Halladay2003--ERA=3.25,WHIP=1.07,K/IP ratio=0.772004--ERA=4.20,WHIP=1.35,K/IP ratio=0.712005--ERA=2.41,WHIP=0.96,K/IP ratio=0.772006--ERA=3.19,WHIP=1.10,K/IP ratio=0.60Sabathia2003--ERA=3.60,WHIP=1.30,K/IP ratio=0.722004--ERA=4.12,WHIP=1.32,K/IP ratio=0.742005--ERA=4.03,WHIP=1.26,K/IP ratio=0.822006--ERA=3.22,WHIP=1.17,K/IP ratio=0.90Halladay was injured in 2004 and 2005 but it didn't seem to drop his numbers substantially as he had a very good year in 2006 and is off to a nice start (with the exception of one start) this year. If the OP is really only concerned with Ks, then I would agree that Sabathia is the play. However, when looking at the total package, I think Halladay is a more consistent pitcher with greater upside.

Looks to me like Sabathia's ratio's are getting stronger each year, while some of Halladay's, mainly his K/IP are in decline. Add to that Sabathia is 26, and Halladay will be 30 next week, and well, that may tell some more of the story.Let's throw in the fact that Sabathia's team is in first, while Halladay's team faces the Red Sox and Yankees about 35 times this year.Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'd probably take Halladay too....but I don't think this is a slam dunk.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Lets compare the numbers for Halladay and Sabathia by year:Halladay2003--ERA=3.25,WHIP=1.07,K/IP ratio=0.772004--ERA=4.20,WHIP=1.35,K/IP ratio=0.712005--ERA=2.41,WHIP=0.96,K/IP ratio=0.772006--ERA=3.19,WHIP=1.10,K/IP ratio=0.60Sabathia2003--ERA=3.60,WHIP=1.30,K/IP ratio=0.722004--ERA=4.12,WHIP=1.32,K/IP ratio=0.742005--ERA=4.03,WHIP=1.26,K/IP ratio=0.822006--ERA=3.22,WHIP=1.17,K/IP ratio=0.90Halladay was injured in 2004 and 2005 but it didn't seem to drop his numbers substantially as he had a very good year in 2006 and is off to a nice start (with the exception of one start) this year. If the OP is really only concerned with Ks, then I would agree that Sabathia is the play. However, when looking at the total package, I think Halladay is a more consistent pitcher with greater upside.

Looks to me like Sabathia's ratio's are getting stronger each year, while some of Halladay's, mainly his K/IP are in decline. Add to that Sabathia is 26, and Halladay will be 30 next week, and well, that may tell some more of the story.Let's throw in the fact that Sabathia's team is in first, while Halladay's team faces the Red Sox and Yankees about 35 times this year.Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'd probably take Halladay too....but I don't think this is a slam dunk.

After doing the comparison, I agree that it isn't quite the slam dunk that I expected it would be. However, I don't think you can really say Halladay's numbers are declining. We all agree that his K/IP ratio is one of his weaknesses but his WHIP and ERA have remained very strong post-injury. Also, the BlueJays play in the same division as the Yanks and Sox but last time I checked, The WhiteSox and Tigers have pretty strong lineups as well. Given the consistency that Halladay provides year in and year out, I would still take him in a heartbeat.

 

[guru_007]

Lets compare the numbers for Halladay and Sabathia by year:Halladay2003--ERA=3.25,WHIP=1.07,K/IP ratio=0.772004--ERA=4.20,WHIP=1.35,K/IP ratio=0.712005--ERA=2.41,WHIP=0.96,K/IP ratio=0.772006--ERA=3.19,WHIP=1.10,K/IP ratio=0.60Sabathia2003--ERA=3.60,WHIP=1.30,K/IP ratio=0.722004--ERA=4.12,WHIP=1.32,K/IP ratio=0.742005--ERA=4.03,WHIP=1.26,K/IP ratio=0.822006--ERA=3.22,WHIP=1.17,K/IP ratio=0.90Halladay was injured in 2004 and 2005 but it didn't seem to drop his numbers substantially as he had a very good year in 2006 and is off to a nice start (with the exception of one start) this year. If the OP is really only concerned with Ks, then I would agree that Sabathia is the play. However, when looking at the total package, I think Halladay is a more consistent pitcher with greater upside.

Looks to me like Sabathia's ratio's are getting stronger each year, while some of Halladay's, mainly his K/IP are in decline. Add to that Sabathia is 26, and Halladay will be 30 next week, and well, that may tell some more of the story.Let's throw in the fact that Sabathia's team is in first, while Halladay's team faces the Red Sox and Yankees about 35 times this year.Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'd probably take Halladay too....but I don't think this is a slam dunk.

After doing the comparison, I agree that it isn't quite the slam dunk that I expected it would be. However, I don't think you can really say Halladay's numbers are declining. We all agree that his K/IP ratio is one of his weaknesses but his WHIP and ERA have remained very strong post-injury. Also, the BlueJays play in the same division as the Yanks and Sox but last time I checked, The WhiteSox and Tigers have pretty strong lineups as well. Given the consistency that Halladay provides year in and year out, I would still take him in a heartbeat.

All teams in the AL East are in the top 19 in the majors in offense.Twins - #20Royals - #24Chisox - #27Just saying

 

[fred_1_15301]

Lets compare the numbers for Halladay and Sabathia by year:Halladay2003--ERA=3.25,WHIP=1.07,K/IP ratio=0.772004--ERA=4.20,WHIP=1.35,K/IP ratio=0.712005--ERA=2.41,WHIP=0.96,K/IP ratio=0.772006--ERA=3.19,WHIP=1.10,K/IP ratio=0.60Sabathia2003--ERA=3.60,WHIP=1.30,K/IP ratio=0.722004--ERA=4.12,WHIP=1.32,K/IP ratio=0.742005--ERA=4.03,WHIP=1.26,K/IP ratio=0.822006--ERA=3.22,WHIP=1.17,K/IP ratio=0.90Halladay was injured in 2004 and 2005 but it didn't seem to drop his numbers substantially as he had a very good year in 2006 and is off to a nice start (with the exception of one start) this year. If the OP is really only concerned with Ks, then I would agree that Sabathia is the play. However, when looking at the total package, I think Halladay is a more consistent pitcher with greater upside.

Looks to me like Sabathia's ratio's are getting stronger each year, while some of Halladay's, mainly his K/IP are in decline. Add to that Sabathia is 26, and Halladay will be 30 next week, and well, that may tell some more of the story.Let's throw in the fact that Sabathia's team is in first, while Halladay's team faces the Red Sox and Yankees about 35 times this year.Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'd probably take Halladay too....but I don't think this is a slam dunk.

After doing the comparison, I agree that it isn't quite the slam dunk that I expected it would be. However, I don't think you can really say Halladay's numbers are declining. We all agree that his K/IP ratio is one of his weaknesses but his WHIP and ERA have remained very strong post-injury. Also, the BlueJays play in the same division as the Yanks and Sox but last time I checked, The WhiteSox and Tigers have pretty strong lineups as well. Given the consistency that Halladay provides year in and year out, I would still take him in a heartbeat.

All teams in the AL East are in the top 19 in the majors in offense.Twins - #20Royals - #24Chisox - #27Just saying

Thats fine but we are only one month in and I would expect the WhiteSox offensive output to increase substantially given the level of talent. With that said, I do agree that the AL East as a whole is stronger offensively but I do not believe that the difference is large enough to make up for the difference between Halladay and Sabathia.

 

[Daywalker]

Borowski is not a slam dunk closer. He's a few bad outings from being a middle reliever. I'd take Halladay over Sabathia in a heartbeat. It's not like Sabathia hasn't had his injury problems either.

 

[Bobcat10]

Borowski is not a slam dunk closer. He's a few bad outings from being a middle reliever. I'd take Halladay over Sabathia in a heartbeat. It's not like Sabathia hasn't had his injury problems either.

IIRC, Borowski has one blown save this year and a meltdown in NY in a non-save situation. Other than that he's been effective.And who exactly is Toronto running out there in the 9th?CC's injuries have not been rather minor...pulled muscles/obliques, etc....usually in Spring Training or early in the season.I'm not arguing your choice between the two pitchers, but whatever you are trying to back it up with doesn't jive at all.

 

[BoomBoom]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo).

He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor.

I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

 

[Bobcat10]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

If this was my league and for money, I'd be pissed right now to the point where I'd demand the Halladay/Snell deal be official to the commish. It doesn't matter if he knows Yahoo or not, that is a completed trade. He could even be lying about that. And it doesn't matter that he likes Frasor/Reyes better.If it's just for fun, yep you got duped, but oh well.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

 

[Bobcat10]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

Sounds like the other trade was agreed to offline, maybe in email or whatever (not processed thru Yahoo), even though Boom accepted the offer online. You are right, Yahoo would not have allowed both trades to be accepted for Halladay if they were both accepted online.

 

[BoomBoom]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

If this was my league and for money, I'd be pissed right now to the point where I'd demand the Halladay/Snell deal be official to the commish. It doesn't matter if he knows Yahoo or not, that is a completed trade. He could even be lying about that. And it doesn't matter that he likes Frasor/Reyes better.If it's just for fun, yep you got duped, but oh well.

It's a $50 money league, and unfortunately I'm the commish, so it's a no-win situation. Our league votes on trades, with my vote = 1.5, so 3 yes votes + mine (10 team league) pushes the trade through. I could have been a hard-#### and demanded that my trade go through, but figured at this point in the season it's better to keep league harmony than have a few owners get out of control over something like this. The guy that got Halladay is near the top in saves and already at the top in ERA/WHIP, and he'll be dropping fast because he's down to Nathan/Torres, while most teams are starting 3-4 closers - and since I'm chasing him in the overall standings, it could work out. No one in our league likes trading closers, and I'm sitting on 6 of them if Accardo is the closer...so when he comes to me asking for one, it will take a kings ransom knowing what he just gave up to get Halladay.

 

[BoomBoom]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

As commish in our league, the trade goes up for review and then I can either push it through or veto it, so I vetoed it. It's not possible in yahoo, you are correct. He actually offered up the deal to me and to the other guy - I accepted it first, but then he came back and said he didn't realize that if I accepted the trade in yahoo it was more or less final - he figured I would call or email him with an answer...definitely not how things are normally done Oh well...

 

[BoomBoom]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

Sounds like the other trade was agreed to offline, maybe in email or whatever (not processed thru Yahoo), even though Boom accepted the offer online. You are right, Yahoo would not have allowed both trades to be accepted for Halladay if they were both accepted online.

Yeah, he offered the deal via yahoo to me for Halladay, and to the other guy for Halladay (in yahoo) - even though he claims he preferred the other deal and wanted to see what the other owner decided before moving forward on our deal. Of course, the other owner sees I accept the trade for Halladay, and then all of the sudden knowing that I'm going to get Halladay, probably decides to pull the trigger to block me.Of course, the guy who HAD Halladay thinks that Al Reyes + Jason Frasor > Snell + Borowski + Accardo, so what else can you do?

 

[Bobcat10]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

Sounds like the other trade was agreed to offline, maybe in email or whatever (not processed thru Yahoo), even though Boom accepted the offer online. You are right, Yahoo would not have allowed both trades to be accepted for Halladay if they were both accepted online.

Yeah, he offered the deal via yahoo to me for Halladay, and to the other guy for Halladay (in yahoo) - even though he claims he preferred the other deal and wanted to see what the other owner decided before moving forward on our deal. Of course, the other owner sees I accept the trade for Halladay, and then all of the sudden knowing that I'm going to get Halladay, probably decides to pull the trigger to block me.Of course, the guy who HAD Halladay thinks that Al Reyes + Jason Frasor > Snell + Borowski + Accardo, so what else can you do?

Enjoy Snell I suppose.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Well, the short of it is that I got screwed out of this deal as the other owner, after I accepted the trade HE OFFERED of Halladay for Ian Snell/Borowski/Accardo said that he actually had a deal in place with a different owner (which was not submitted/accepted through yahoo). He ends up trading Halladay for Al Reyes and Jason Frasor. I'm pissed to say the least, but he's new to using yahoo and apparantly doesn't have it all together...and basically said Reyes/Frasor is a much better deal than I was offering (Snell or Vazquez, Borowoski, AND Accardo).

I don't get it though. I always thought that once you accept an offered trade in yahoo, it is instantly processed. The only way for this trade to not go through is if enough league members veto it. How could this guy have offered Halladay to another team AFTER you had already accepted a trade involving Halladay? If thats possible, then it's a serious glitch in yahoo. Anyways, trading Halladay for Reyes and Frasor is borderline ridiculous. Your offer was much better.

Sounds like the other trade was agreed to offline, maybe in email or whatever (not processed thru Yahoo), even though Boom accepted the offer online. You are right, Yahoo would not have allowed both trades to be accepted for Halladay if they were both accepted online.

Yeah, he offered the deal via yahoo to me for Halladay, and to the other guy for Halladay (in yahoo) - even though he claims he preferred the other deal and wanted to see what the other owner decided before moving forward on our deal. Of course, the other owner sees I accept the trade for Halladay, and then all of the sudden knowing that I'm going to get Halladay, probably decides to pull the trigger to block me.Of course, the guy who HAD Halladay thinks that Al Reyes + Jason Frasor > Snell + Borowski + Accardo, so what else can you do?

Enjoy Snell I suppose.

The good thing is that you still have a very solid SP and 2 more closers (I think there's no doubt Frasor has lost or will lose the closer job in Toronto). Halladay is a stud but sometimes quantity is better than quality. Also, take comfort in the fact that the guy just accepted a trade that was lightyears below the offer that you gave him. You'll be fine but I'm pretty sure he's crippled his team.

 

[BoomBoom]

Yeah, I think my overall pitching staff will be fine...

SP: J. Santana, Cain, Snell, Vazquez, Shields

RP: Borowski, Fuentes, Weathers, Soria/Dotel, C. Cordero, Accardo

At some point I'll probably trade a closer, and knowing that one closer was just traded for Halladay kind of sets the bar high as far as what I should expect in return....also, saves on my bench aren't as bad as saves in someone elses lineup, unless I can improve my roster more by dealing a closer to a weak 'saves' team pretty dramatically.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I have a surplus of closers (we can start 4, and I have 5 as well as Accardo), and one team in my league is down to one closer, so he's interested in making a deal. Basically, he offered me Halladay for Ian Snell and Joe Borowski. He also has Sabathia, who has a higher WHIP and slightly higher ERA but more K's and one more win. I'm a little nervous about dealing for Halladay given his arm troubles the past few years and the fact he was throwing in the mid-80's in his last start when he got rocked. The AL East is also much tougher offensively than the AL Central (who Sabathia faces). Am I overthinking this one? I know Halladay is a top-10 pitcher when healthy and I'm hurting in wins as my other SP's (aside from Johan, I have Cain, Vazquez, Snell, and Shields) are all struggling to get wins. I'm middle of the pack in K's though Cain should pick up more K's going forward (did the same thing last year). Pull the trigger for Halladay before he pulls it back, or insist on Sabathia? Thanks!

Good thing you didn't get Halladay......

 

[BoomBoom]

Good thing you didn't get Halladay......

(so far!)

 

[fred_1_15301]

Good thing you didn't get Halladay......

(so far!)

I really can't imagine Halladay doesn't turn this around. Every pitcher goes through this kind of slump at some point. He's pretty much been the definition of consistency over the past 4 or 5 years. Although I did hear on ESPN that his velocity has been down during the past 2 starts.

 

[Bobcat10]

Sabathia still >> Halladay.

 

[BoomBoom]

No doubt CC is looking strong this year.

Had to move a closer since I had too many...ended up trading Accardo for VMart about 10 days ago. That trade alone has vaulted me from 4th into 1st!

 

[fred_1_15301]

Sabathia still >> Halladay.

Thats fine but if I go by past evidence, I would still have drafted Halladay over Sabathia at the start of the year in a heartbeeat.

 

[HoTnickZ]

Sabathia still >> Halladay.

Thats fine but if I go by past evidence, I would still have drafted Halladay over Sabathia at the start of the year in a heartbeeat.

Exactly. Just because it doesn't work out, does not mean it wasn't the right decision.

 

[Bobcat10]

Sabathia still >> Halladay.

Thats fine but if I go by past evidence, I would still have drafted Halladay over Sabathia at the start of the year in a heartbeeat.

Exactly. Just because it doesn't work out, does not mean it wasn't the right decision.

This thread was started 6 weeks into the season, not before draft day. Sometimes that isn't enough time to gauge things as you don't want to jump the gun on trades, but in this case I think the signs pointed at CC evidenced above.