Harrison's an Idiot but Speaks Some Truth (1 Viewer)

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...

Heres part of what he says about Big Ben"Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again. Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning. You ain't that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does."

to further this point I get tired of the argument that always gets brought up with this type of comment.something like"if manning or brady or brees or rivers had the steelers defense they would have won like 7 super bowls by now"well if u gave either manning, brady, brees, or rivers this defense then they wouldn't have the same weapons that they have on offense and obviously they wouldn't have the same offensive line. Ben's playground mentality and ability to make something positive happen when the play (or o-line) breaks down is what makes him so tough to stop.Yeah it's annoying to see him not hit a WR when he should sometimes or struggle mightily to have the same accuracy as the others on this list but the following is also true.Manning would fall immediately when the pressure broke through (happens a good bit actually). Then he'd slam the ball to the ground and look around for someone to blame or give that "come on man" look.At least Brady steps up INTO the pocket to avoid pressure but also seems to get rattled when his initial reads are taken away and he gets hit consistently. (each of the last few years in the playoffs and the SB a few years ago... actually just about every loss in his career has been patterned that way)Brees accuracy is awesome but he too seems to get out of rhythm when under heavy pressure and occasionally will make a few bad decisions.Rivers seems to choke in big games(playoffs)... normally when he's under a ton of pressure.Pressure causes issues with all QBs but UNDER pressure is where Ben seems to excel a little more. All I'm saying is that these teams are built to take advantage of what their QBs do well and also (to an extent) can be affected by where they play their home games.ok first side-rant overWhat really surprises me is that all day I'm hearing about this James Harrison article and seeing how upset everyone is getting but nobody seems to mention much about Harrison's comments regarding spygate.He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

 

[The Westin]

I will agree with you somewhat on Ben. He is good for the Steelers. He may be better for the Steelers than any other team because of hte kind of QB he is, but I think he gets overrated by Steelers fans, mostly because he has 2 SB wins.

I remember before the Superbowl this year there was quite a long thread on "If the Steelers win, Ben is better than Brady". I said a million times in that thread, you can't just take Superbowls alone and make that distinction. The fact that people were saying this showed how ridiculous it all is. What if he plays like crap and they still win? People would still call him one of the best even though he was crap in 2 of the 3 SB wins.

He's a good QB, but I wouldn't rank him near Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, or Rodgers. That's just opinion on my part, obviously people will argue that all day long.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Whenever I hear a player/fan accuse another team of cheating with nothing but being out played as their proof, I think they are a whiny sore loser and I think Harrison fits that to a T. He is an awesome player, no question, but he has also proven to be a huge whiner over the years and unsubstantiated accusations just back that up. I bet Troy wasn't calling anyone a cheater, he is a true professional and Harrison states he is a player he respects, he ought to try and act like him.

 

[finito]

Harrison is possibly the biggest moron in the NFL, and that's saying something.

 

[Flying Elvis]

Nothing that can possibly come from this dolt's mouth will ever have any merit. He's dumber than a stump, whines like a #####, and somehow manages to slide further down the bar every time he speaks. That is quite a task, frankly, since he has to lower the bar first.

 

[Jercules]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!The most salient points Harrison had were about hits. Hitters tend to aim high as a professional courtesy; concussions are usually not career-threatening whereas torn knee ligaments are. If teams started guaranteeing player contracts, it would go a long ways towards eliminating the problem.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!

well yeah... look im not saying i dont prefer a qb that is more accurate and better throughout the course of a game but there really isnt anyone else I'd rather have late in a game when things haven't gone right than Ben's lazy butt... that being said it is so frustrating that he reportedly hasn't put in nearly as much time into his craft as the other great ones mentioned in this thread. Kinda similar to the younger Mike Vick in that they relied too often on their God given talents alone but lacked the work ethic and focus to take their games to the next level.And yeah I'm a New England hater but come on... isn't that at all a little fishy?and yeah James Harrison is an idiot but at least he doesn't abuse women... (sarcasm)

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...

He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.

and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.

proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.

with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!The most salient points Harrison had were about hits. Hitters tend to aim high as a professional courtesy; concussions are usually not career-threatening whereas torn knee ligaments are. If teams started guaranteeing player contracts, it would go a long ways towards eliminating the problem.

yeah I found that interesting too... seemed to be the only portion of the interview where he didn't seem all that dumb

 

[ChromeWeasel]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!

well yeah... look im not saying i dont prefer a qb that is more accurate and better throughout the course of a game but there really isnt anyone else I'd rather have late in a game when things haven't gone right than Ben's lazy butt... that being said it is so frustrating that he reportedly hasn't put in nearly as much time into his craft as the other great ones mentioned in this thread. Kinda similar to the younger Mike Vick in that they relied too often on their God given talents alone but lacked the work ethic and focus to take their games to the next level.And yeah I'm a New England hater but come on... isn't that at all a little fishy?and yeah James Harrison is an idiot but at least he doesn't abuse women... (sarcasm)

Yeah, it's totally fishy that a player from the team that got beat came up with an excuse about it. (rollseyes)Do you even understand what illegal signal stealing means? Your own example suggests that you don't understand it very well. It's not against the rules to watch a team during the game and figure out their signals. You said that the Eagles blitzed well against the Pats in the first half, then were countered by effective screen passes in the second. You just gave a great example of effective coaching, not illegal signal stealing. If the Pats illegally stole the signals from the Eagles, the Pats wouldnt have had a whole half where blitzing was effective. Instead, the Pats would have know when the Eagles were going to blitz from the first play, and would have countered those plays immediately. You're actually making a better case that the Pats outcoached their opponents legally by making great halftime decisions.And people wonder why Patriots fans dont take 'Spygate' criticism too seriously.

 

[GregR_2]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!

well yeah... look im not saying i dont prefer a qb that is more accurate and better throughout the course of a game but there really isnt anyone else I'd rather have late in a game when things haven't gone right than Ben's lazy butt... that being said it is so frustrating that he reportedly hasn't put in nearly as much time into his craft as the other great ones mentioned in this thread. Kinda similar to the younger Mike Vick in that they relied too often on their God given talents alone but lacked the work ethic and focus to take their games to the next level.And yeah I'm a New England hater but come on... isn't that at all a little fishy?and yeah James Harrison is an idiot but at least he doesn't abuse women... (sarcasm)

Yeah, it's totally fishy that a player from the team that got beat came up with an excuse about it. (rollseyes)Do you even understand what illegal signal stealing means? Your own example suggests that you don't understand it very well. It's not against the rules to watch a team during the game and figure out their signals. You said that the Eagles blitzed well against the Pats in the first half, then were countered by effective screen passes in the second. You just gave a great example of effective coaching, not illegal signal stealing. If the Pats illegally stole the signals from the Eagles, the Pats wouldnt have had a whole half where blitzing was effective. Instead, the Pats would have know when the Eagles were going to blitz from the first play, and would have countered those plays immediately. You're actually making a better case that the Pats outcoached their opponents legally by making great halftime decisions.And people wonder why Patriots fans dont take 'Spygate' criticism too seriously.

Maybe you're not familiar with the history of Spygate. In it the Patriots were caught video taping signals of the Jets in the first half, and the tape was confiscated by NFL security from the guy who filmed it while he was on his way taking the tape to the locker room at half time.How hard would it be to have one staffer keep a running list of what defense the opponent used each play, and then during half time, match it up with the signals from the tape? Not hard at all. I don't know if the Patriots did that for the game in question. But knowing the signals in the 2nd half but not the 1st would be entirely consistent with what they were later caught doing.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

LOL, this needed another thread? lol gees.

This is a "soapbox" thread for sure.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

this is a quote from the Harrison thread...

He isn't the first Steeler to vehemently accuse the Pats for STEALING signals and knowing what was coming. I also vividly remember that in the beginning of the SB with the Eagles the Philly D was doing really well with their blitzes getting to Tom Terrific. In the second half, however, EVERY BLITZ was being countered with a screen of some sort to exactly where the blitz came from. NE only ran the screens on blitzes. Eventually it forced Philly to STOP blitzing... have they EVER stopped blitzing before? New England's team was BUILT on having success (especially in the playoffs) and had a rep for being the team that made the BEST 2nd HALF ADJUSTMENTS OF ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. Sounds too easy to me. Its a huge advantage and it got brushed under the rug.

and for ANYBODY that throws me the 16-0 the same season isn't paying attention IMO. They had already cashed in on their rep of being ultra successful and had a motivated Randy Moss and a healthy Wes Welker in his prime along with a coach with a chip on his shoulder to "show" that it didn't matter if they cheated.

proof? Burned by Goodell... Harrison is still an idiot with lots of issues but some of what he speaks has merit.

with nothing else really going on today except for the Jimmie V Foundation telethon I thought maybe some people would like to talk about anything else (that stuff just depresses me)

I don't want to shock anyone, but it turns out the person who wrote this is from Pennsylvania!

well yeah... look im not saying i dont prefer a qb that is more accurate and better throughout the course of a game but there really isnt anyone else I'd rather have late in a game when things haven't gone right than Ben's lazy butt... that being said it is so frustrating that he reportedly hasn't put in nearly as much time into his craft as the other great ones mentioned in this thread. Kinda similar to the younger Mike Vick in that they relied too often on their God given talents alone but lacked the work ethic and focus to take their games to the next level.

And yeah I'm a New England hater but come on... isn't that at all a little fishy?

and yeah James Harrison is an idiot but at least he doesn't abuse women... (sarcasm)

Yeah, it's totally fishy that a player from the team that got beat came up with an excuse about it. (rollseyes)Do you even understand what illegal signal stealing means? Your own example suggests that you don't understand it very well. It's not against the rules to watch a team during the game and figure out their signals. You said that the Eagles blitzed well against the Pats in the first half, then were countered by effective screen passes in the second. You just gave a great example of effective coaching, not illegal signal stealing. If the Pats illegally stole the signals from the Eagles, the Pats wouldnt have had a whole half where blitzing was effective. Instead, the Pats would have know when the Eagles were going to blitz from the first play, and would have countered those plays immediately. You're actually making a better case that the Pats outcoached their opponents legally by making great halftime decisions.

And people wonder why Patriots fans dont take 'Spygate' criticism too seriously.

to be honest Patriots fans don't take 'Spygate' criticism too seriously for the same reason that Steelers fans don't take the '70s steroids' criticism too seriously... its hard to see it clearly when its your team.

and to a point it is also hard to see things clearly when you feel that your team has been cheated...

I'm also aware that there are a few objective fans out there who work hard to keep their fandumb from clouding their judgement... I feel that I am one of those fans

So yes I'm a hater of the Patriots and I'm disappointed about the 'steroid' criticism of my favorite team in at time where they were dominant. Whether you believe that 'spygate' was real or not really doesn't matter in this case. Facts are they got caught illegally taping the signals from field level against the Jets... Had they never been caught I would be more inclined to think that the 'gossip' in the past of the Patriots offense knowing 'somehow' exactly what the Steelers and Eagles were running would be that... just gossip. The fact is we will never know the entire story which is where I have the problem. Why burn the tapes and give them a slap on the wrist without at least investigating a little further to see whether or not the previous 'gossip' had some merit to it?

I realize the destruction of the tapes was most likely to protect the shield but I do get a little miffed when people want to just brush it under the rug.

and for anyone that claims that 'illegally taping' signals from the sideline wouldn't be advantageous for the offense your only kidding yourselves.

Example: Tape signals... note timestamp... print out snapshots of before and after snap with same timestamp... collect data and through 1 half of football its logical to assume that a decent amount of signals could be stolen.

Implement this in second half by calling out there blitzes and/or running screens to the area that the blitzers vacated.

Doesn't seem all that difficult... Again we will never know but its not responsible IMO to not at least believe that it could have been possible.

and as far as the bolded statement...

Ummm... an excuse right after the game if I remember... not like he waited until the Patriots got caught a few years later.

Remember they were also accused of possibly taping the Rams walk-through before Super Bowl XXXVI

Link

That was 3 years before the Steelers/Pats playoff game in question but the story didn't break until the Patriots got caught in 2007.

Just a lot of smoke to be brushing aside as not that serious.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

LOL, this needed another thread? lol gees.This is a "soapbox" thread for sure.

true true haha... can't help it sometimes

 

[beachbum]

Harrison is an idiot... he gets to make big plays at linebacker behind the best run-stopping defensive line in the league, while Big Ben does what he does behind probably the worst offensive line in football

 

[Godsbrother]

to be honest Patriots fans don't take 'Spygate' criticism too seriously for the same reason that Steelers fans don't take the '70s steroids' criticism too seriously... its hard to see it clearly when its your team.

I don't know of any Steelers fans that are denial over the use of steroids by some of the Steelers in the 70s. They did but so did players on every other team in the NFL and at the time they were not a banned substance. This is why Steelers fans don't take steroids criticism seriously.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

when the offensive line is blocking well, I wish we would have drafted Rivers or Manning or that year.

When the offensive line is blocking like usual, I thank the football gods that we got Big Ben.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

when the offensive line is blocking well, I wish we would have drafted Rivers or Manning or that year.When the offensive line is blocking like usual, I thank the football gods that we got Big Ben.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This whole offensive line business is such a bunch of nonsense.

It may have been true a few years ago, but the Pittsburgh offensive line was actually pretty darn solid this year. It was certainly better than the dredge that Indy rolled out there up front, yet Peyton "the stick" Manning managed just fine. There are ways to deal with a pass rush that don't involve running around like a chicken with your head cut off and the elite pocket passers are all pretty good at it.

Just look at the Super Bowl this year. The Pitt offensive line was like a wall that let Big Ben sit back there in a lazy boy and look over the field. The one play that they did give up a little bit of pressure (and even in that case, Big Ben flung his arm right into a guy that hadn't broken past his blocker yet), Roethlisberger threw a game-changing pick to the house. Meanwhile, on the other side, the Pittsburgh front was running over Green Bay's front like they weren't even there, but Aaron Rodgers managed.

That's because, just like before, you don't have to run around and make the occasional highlight play to deal with the rush effectively. Not only is Big Ben's approach to the pass rush not the end all be all, but I'm not convinced it's not much worse. In between each of those occasional highlight plays you see Big Ben make on Sportscenter highlights there are 10 others where he takes a drive killing sack that he didn't need to take. Peyton's line has been bad the last few years but you never hear about it, because he doesn't sit back there and make them look bad by taking a bunch of sacks just so he can occasionally shake off 4 guys and make the crowd go crazy. When you don't have that ridiculous Pitt defense, you can't afford to just give away drives in hopes of making a big play every once in a while. That defense is the only thing that makes Big Ben's "do or die" style work. Because if he played with the Indy defense they couldn't afford to give away a chunk of possessions every game on big sacks as that wouldn't leave them with enough possessions left over to keep up.

Another factor in all of this is that Big Ben is not particularly special at dealing with the blitz. I'll see plays where Big Ben gets quick pressure and people immediately start complaining about the line. But often on those plays the defense rushed 6 or 7 guys. There's going to be pressure on those plays no matter what offensive line you're playing behind. It's the quarterback's responsibility to find the hole that that leaves and hit it quickly. Tom Brady doesn't have to deal with those mass blitzes because he's proven that if you send that many, even if someone comes through completely unblocked, he's going to find the hot route before that guy can run the 5 yards untouched to get to him. Roethlisberger does have to deal with those blitzes because the only thing that he's proven is that he's more likely to see 7 guys coming and think "ok how am I going to shrug off all these tacklers" than he is to think "ok they're sending a lot of guys here, Hines will be on the hot route so I've got to hit him quickly".

ETA: In Big Ben's time in Pittsburgh he has been sacked once in every 10 attempts, which is historically bad. Charlie Batch over his time in Pitt, behind that same line, has been sacked once every 19 attempts, which is a fairly typical for non-elite pocket passing QBs.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will agree with you somewhat on Ben. He is good for the Steelers. He may be better for the Steelers than any other team because of hte kind of QB he is, but I think he gets overrated by Steelers fans, mostly because he has 2 SB wins. I remember before the Superbowl this year there was quite a long thread on "If the Steelers win, Ben is better than Brady". I said a million times in that thread, you can't just take Superbowls alone and make that distinction. The fact that people were saying this showed how ridiculous it all is. What if he plays like crap and they still win? People would still call him one of the best even though he was crap in 2 of the 3 SB wins. He's a good QB, but I wouldn't rank him near Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, or Rodgers. That's just opinion on my part, obviously people will argue that all day long.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

This whole offensive line business is such a bunch of nonsense.It may have been true a few years ago, but the Pittsburgh offensive line was actually pretty darn solid this year. It was certainly better than the dredge that Indy rolled out there up front, yet Peyton "the stick" Manning managed just fine. There are ways to deal with a pass rush that don't involve running around like a chicken with your head cut off and the elite pocket passers are all pretty good at it.Just look at the Super Bowl this year. The Pitt offensive line was like a wall that let Big Ben sit back there in a lazy boy and look over the field. The one play that they did give up a little bit of pressure (and even in that case, Big Ben flung his arm right into a guy that hadn't broken past his blocker yet), Roethlisberger threw a game-changing pick to the house. Meanwhile, on the other side, the Pittsburgh front was running over Green Bay's front like they weren't even there, but Aaron Rodgers managed. That's because, just like before, you don't have to run around and make the occasional highlight play to deal with the rush effectively. Not only is Big Ben's approach to the pass rush not the end all be all, but I'm not convinced it's not much worse. In between each of those occasional highlight plays you see Big Ben make on Sportscenter highlights there are 10 others where he takes a drive killing sack that he didn't need to take. Peyton's line has been bad the last few years but you never hear about it, because he doesn't sit back there and make them look bad by taking a bunch of sacks just so he can occasionally shake off 4 guys and make the crowd go crazy. When you don't have that ridiculous Pitt defense, you can't afford to just give away drives in hopes of making a big play every once in a while. That defense is the only thing that makes Big Ben's "do or die" style work. Because if he played with the Indy defense they couldn't afford to give away a chunk of possessions every game on big sacks as that wouldn't leave them with enough possessions left over to keep up.Another factor in all of this is that Big Ben is not particularly special at dealing with the blitz. I'll see plays where Big Ben gets quick pressure and people immediately start complaining about the line. But often on those plays the defense rushed 6 or 7 guys. There's going to be pressure on those plays no matter what offensive line you're playing behind. It's the quarterback's responsibility to find the hole that that leaves and hit it quickly. Tom Brady doesn't have to deal with those mass blitzes because he's proven that if you send that many, even if someone comes through completely unblocked, he's going to find the hot route before that guy can run the 5 yards untouched to get to him. Roethlisberger does have to deal with those blitzes because the only thing that he's proven is that he's more likely to see 7 guys coming and think "ok how am I going to shrug off all these tacklers" than he is to think "ok they're sending a lot of guys here, Hines will be on the hot route so I've got to hit him quickly".ETA: In Big Ben's time in Pittsburgh he has been sacked once in every 10 attempts, which is historically bad. Charlie Batch over his time in Pitt, behind that same line, has been sacked once every 19 attempts, which is a fairly typical for non-elite pocket passing QBs.

Do I wish Ben would get rid of the ball right away and find the hot read? Absolutely... and yes I am aware that he benefits tremendously from being able to "waste" possessions because of his defense. He's not Brady or Manning or Rodgers or Brees or Rivers as far as accuracy... not even close at times... Could he be better if he had been putting in extra work in the classroom like the others and been a student of the position? I think so for sure...BUTthat aint Ben...Ben's a gunslinger like Favre... he takes chances that he shouldn't and he drives fans crazy by taking stupid sacks that he had no business trying to get out of... and then when the offense NEEDS a play to close a game or to WIN the game he seems to make that play more times than not. That play could be something like running around like a chicken with its head cut off or flipping a d-lineman over his back or doing some sort of ridiculous pump fake to freeze a defender before throwing a strike for a big play. Its why I hate him and I love him.He fits Pittsburgh cause he ain't a pretty QB... he is rough around the edges and cocky and selfish and awesome in the clutchHe is a different kind of exciting for a QB like Vick is a different kind of exciting for a QB.Ben's a magnet for hate and/or love... kinda like the Yankees or the Cowboys... love or hate but you still come down on one side or the other.As for the SuperBowl it was weird... i see you point out that Ben "flung his arm" into a defender that hadnt broken past his man yet.... I'd like to point out that he hadn't broken past him because he was too busy breaking THROUGH him. Perhaps Ben thought his 340+ lb lineman could hold up long enough for him to step into the throw... he thought wrongwhich brings me to my last pt... yeah Indy's line has been pretty bad lately and yeah Pitts line was 'better' this year than most other years but you may be 'misremembering' why they were a wall against the packers in the SB... My recollection is that they did a ton of pinching to help legurski at center and they often kept a TE and RB in to block as well. You might also be forgetting WHO was on the Steelers line and what those lineman excell at. I will tell you my friend it ain't pass blocking... they are maulers for the most part.. specially Flozell and Kemo so YEAH they pushed GB off the ball a lot in the run game but they were limited in pass protection just like they had been all year long.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Harrison is a moron. Send Ben to the 49ers and let Alex Smith turn Pittsburgh into a sub .500 team.

 

[Godsbrother]

This whole offensive line business is such a bunch of nonsense.It may have been true a few years ago, but the Pittsburgh offensive line was actually pretty darn solid this year. It was certainly better than the dredge that Indy rolled out there up front, yet Peyton "the stick" Manning managed just fine. There are ways to deal with a pass rush that don't involve running around like a chicken with your head cut off and the elite pocket passers are all pretty good at it.Just look at the Super Bowl this year. The Pitt offensive line was like a wall that let Big Ben sit back there in a lazy boy and look over the field. The one play that they did give up a little bit of pressure (and even in that case, Big Ben flung his arm right into a guy that hadn't broken past his blocker yet), Roethlisberger threw a game-changing pick to the house. Meanwhile, on the other side, the Pittsburgh front was running over Green Bay's front like they weren't even there, but Aaron Rodgers managed. That's because, just like before, you don't have to run around and make the occasional highlight play to deal with the rush effectively. Not only is Big Ben's approach to the pass rush not the end all be all, but I'm not convinced it's not much worse. In between each of those occasional highlight plays you see Big Ben make on Sportscenter highlights there are 10 others where he takes a drive killing sack that he didn't need to take. Peyton's line has been bad the last few years but you never hear about it, because he doesn't sit back there and make them look bad by taking a bunch of sacks just so he can occasionally shake off 4 guys and make the crowd go crazy. When you don't have that ridiculous Pitt defense, you can't afford to just give away drives in hopes of making a big play every once in a while. That defense is the only thing that makes Big Ben's "do or die" style work. Because if he played with the Indy defense they couldn't afford to give away a chunk of possessions every game on big sacks as that wouldn't leave them with enough possessions left over to keep up.Another factor in all of this is that Big Ben is not particularly special at dealing with the blitz. I'll see plays where Big Ben gets quick pressure and people immediately start complaining about the line. But often on those plays the defense rushed 6 or 7 guys. There's going to be pressure on those plays no matter what offensive line you're playing behind. It's the quarterback's responsibility to find the hole that that leaves and hit it quickly. Tom Brady doesn't have to deal with those mass blitzes because he's proven that if you send that many, even if someone comes through completely unblocked, he's going to find the hot route before that guy can run the 5 yards untouched to get to him. Roethlisberger does have to deal with those blitzes because the only thing that he's proven is that he's more likely to see 7 guys coming and think "ok how am I going to shrug off all these tacklers" than he is to think "ok they're sending a lot of guys here, Hines will be on the hot route so I've got to hit him quickly".

The Steelers offensive line pass protection was decent in 2004 & 2005 and much improved last year but anyone suggesting the Steelers pass protection it was anything less than putrid from 2006-2009 is dead wrong. It stunk. Badly.The Steelers offense is nothing like the Colts & Patriots so the comparisons are pointless. Manning & Brady are great QBs, maybe the best ever, but they play in systems that are tailor made for them. Stick either one of them on another team with a different offensive system, offensive line, receivers, etc. and who knows how they would perform? Maybe they would have avoided the sacks but go watch a couple Steelers-Ravens games where Roethlisberger barely has time to take the snap without someone on him and I am not sure Brady & Manning would have even survived those games. And I have seen Manning & Brady in games when they've been under heavy pressure throw picks and take sacks too. Roethlisberger isn't perfect and I wouldn't not put him on the level of Manning or Brady but he is a pretty good quarterback and a good fit for the Steelers.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

This whole offensive line business is such a bunch of nonsense.It may have been true a few years ago, but the Pittsburgh offensive line was actually pretty darn solid this year. It was certainly better than the dredge that Indy rolled out there up front, yet Peyton "the stick" Manning managed just fine. There are ways to deal with a pass rush that don't involve running around like a chicken with your head cut off and the elite pocket passers are all pretty good at it.Just look at the Super Bowl this year. The Pitt offensive line was like a wall that let Big Ben sit back there in a lazy boy and look over the field. The one play that they did give up a little bit of pressure (and even in that case, Big Ben flung his arm right into a guy that hadn't broken past his blocker yet), Roethlisberger threw a game-changing pick to the house. Meanwhile, on the other side, the Pittsburgh front was running over Green Bay's front like they weren't even there, but Aaron Rodgers managed. That's because, just like before, you don't have to run around and make the occasional highlight play to deal with the rush effectively. Not only is Big Ben's approach to the pass rush not the end all be all, but I'm not convinced it's not much worse. In between each of those occasional highlight plays you see Big Ben make on Sportscenter highlights there are 10 others where he takes a drive killing sack that he didn't need to take. Peyton's line has been bad the last few years but you never hear about it, because he doesn't sit back there and make them look bad by taking a bunch of sacks just so he can occasionally shake off 4 guys and make the crowd go crazy. When you don't have that ridiculous Pitt defense, you can't afford to just give away drives in hopes of making a big play every once in a while. That defense is the only thing that makes Big Ben's "do or die" style work. Because if he played with the Indy defense they couldn't afford to give away a chunk of possessions every game on big sacks as that wouldn't leave them with enough possessions left over to keep up.Another factor in all of this is that Big Ben is not particularly special at dealing with the blitz. I'll see plays where Big Ben gets quick pressure and people immediately start complaining about the line. But often on those plays the defense rushed 6 or 7 guys. There's going to be pressure on those plays no matter what offensive line you're playing behind. It's the quarterback's responsibility to find the hole that that leaves and hit it quickly. Tom Brady doesn't have to deal with those mass blitzes because he's proven that if you send that many, even if someone comes through completely unblocked, he's going to find the hot route before that guy can run the 5 yards untouched to get to him. Roethlisberger does have to deal with those blitzes because the only thing that he's proven is that he's more likely to see 7 guys coming and think "ok how am I going to shrug off all these tacklers" than he is to think "ok they're sending a lot of guys here, Hines will be on the hot route so I've got to hit him quickly".

The Steelers offensive line pass protection was decent in 2004 & 2005 and much improved last year but anyone suggesting the Steelers pass protection it was anything less than putrid from 2006-2009 is dead wrong. It stunk. Badly.The Steelers offense is nothing like the Colts & Patriots so the comparisons are pointless. Manning & Brady are great QBs, maybe the best ever, but they play in systems that are tailor made for them. Stick either one of them on another team with a different offensive system, offensive line, receivers, etc. and who knows how they would perform? Maybe they would have avoided the sacks but go watch a couple Steelers-Ravens games where Roethlisberger barely has time to take the snap without someone on him and I am not sure Brady & Manning would have even survived those games. And I have seen Manning & Brady in games when they've been under heavy pressure throw picks and take sacks too. Roethlisberger isn't perfect and I wouldn't not put him on the level of Manning or Brady but he is a pretty good quarterback and a good fit for the Steelers.

I can understand Steeler fans loving their QB, and for good reason if the team is winning. Reality is he does a fine job and uses the tools he has. But he's not in the same tier as Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees.Having one of the top 4 QB's puts the team in a better position to use their talents. You can't say "What if Manning would have been in situation A, B, C" Because the entire make up of the team, offensive plan, and game situation would have been entirely different. A top 4 QB is going to win the offensive battle more times then Ben regardless of the situation.Give props to Ben for what he brings to the table on the field, better than average starting QB for sure, but he doesn't belong in top QB discussions.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

James Harrison is a special breed of person.

It ain't easy to make Big Ben look classy.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

James Harrison is a special breed of person. It ain't easy to make Big Ben look classy.

He and Troy are my 2 favorite Steelers. He made some valid points about his team. And I think he has the right to speak his opinion, but his criticism of Goodell just comes off as sour grapes..

 

[Godsbrother]

James Harrison is a special breed of person.

It ain't easy to make Big Ben look classy.

He and Troy are my 2 favorite Steelers. He made some valid points about his team. And I think he has the right to speak his opinion, but his criticism of Goodell just comes off as sour grapes..

I didn't read the article so maybe Harrison did critique the defense but I didn't hear any quotes regarding the defense or his own play. The defense didn't play a particularly great SB -- Troy virtually disappeared, the secondary was crap and Harrison managed one tackle. There was plenty of blame to go around for that loss (not to mention giving the Packers some credit). To single out two guys on offense that helped you get there is bush league.

Again I didn't read the whole article so maybe the quotes were taken out of context but then again maybe not.

 

[finito]

Do people really think Ben is just "above average"? I think he's a terrific QB and I hate the Steelers.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

James Harrison is a special breed of person.

It ain't easy to make Big Ben look classy.

He and Troy are my 2 favorite Steelers. He made some valid points about his team. And I think he has the right to speak his opinion, but his criticism of Goodell just comes off as sour grapes..

I didn't read the article so maybe Harrison did critique the defense but I didn't hear any quotes regarding the defense or his own play. The defense didn't play a particularly great SB -- Troy virtually disappeared, the secondary was crap and Harrison managed one tackle. There was plenty of blame to go around for that loss (not to mention giving the Packers some credit). To single out two guys on offense that helped you get there is bush league.

Again I didn't read the whole article so maybe the quotes were taken out of context but then again maybe not.

You would have had to hear the entire interview, not just what was chosen by the writer and included in the article..

But regardless, he doesn't have to comment about the folly's of their Def in order to be correct about his criticism of the offense..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Do people really think Ben is just "above average"? I think he's a terrific QB and I hate the Steelers.

I don't think "Better than Average" has to mean what you're implying... Point being he is no Brees/Rodgers/Manning/Brady....There are 32 starting QB's in the league (ish, depending how you look at it) which would leave you with 16 "better than average".. top four pretty much can't be argued legitimately.. Cutting it down to 12.. Saying he's one of those 12 is pretty vague, but is still true..You haveManningBradyRodgersBreesVickRomoRiversRyanBenEliFreemanSchaubCutler FlaccoCassellThat's a list of what I consider the better than average starters in a semi-'no particular order'Even if you're a Ben lover, it would be hard to place him in the top 6.