Harvin to Bills/ Formerly the Harvin to Hawks & Jets (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

The Jets have one of the most explosive players in the NFL in CJ and they don't use him well at all-in fact possibly the worst way this guy could be used.

ON ANY OTHER TEAM, I would be real excited to see Harvin and CJ especially if they can get both rolling in a game. It might even make me curious about Vick at QB again for the first time in years-assuming he still has some wheels.

Cj explosive? What is this... 2009?

heh true, but he showed that burst (far less often) some last year.

 

[MCguidance]

I wish the Jets had made this move before they ended up 1-6.

I think Idzik is setting this up perfectly for the next head coach of the Jets.

 

[chinawildman]

What I find strange about this whole situation is that Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota in 2009 and 2010. While his #s weren't awesome, Harvin was targeted downfield and his usage completely different. In addition, if Percy's indeed a monumental pain in the ###, wouldn't Bevell have tipped off management or Carroll to these things prior to them blowing their wad on trading for him?

How many NFL receivers fit this description? You're over-thinking it, Harvin simply did not produce making his alleged attitude problem more of an issue. If Harvin was putting up numbers or could even be on the field consistently, Seahawks would have put up with him.

So are you inferring that Harvin isn't the same player he was 3 years ago? I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but Harvin has been productive in the past with Bevell over a longer period of time than his seahawks stint. How do you produce as a WR when all the touches you get are bubble screens and runs? From what I've seen of him this season he certainly doesn't look like he's lost a step.

From everything I've read it sounds like he was a very polarizing figure in a locker room that values team chemistry above all else. I believe one seahawk player was quoted as saying that some teammates loved Percy, others hated him. Sounds like THAT is the reason he's no longer a seahawk, regardless of his production.

 

[Neofight]

What I find strange about this whole situation is that Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota in 2009 and 2010. While his #s weren't awesome, Harvin was targeted downfield and his usage completely different. In addition, if Percy's indeed a monumental pain in the ###, wouldn't Bevell have tipped off management or Carroll to these things prior to them blowing their wad on trading for him?

How many NFL receivers fit this description? You're over-thinking it, Harvin simply did not produce making his alleged attitude problem more of an issue. If Harvin was putting up numbers or could even be on the field consistently, Seahawks would have put up with him.

So are you inferring that Harvin isn't the same player he was 3 years ago? I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but Harvin has been productive in the past with Bevell over a longer period of time than his seahawks stint. How do you produce as a WR when all the touches you get are bubble screens and runs? From what I've seen of him this season he certainly doesn't look like he's lost a step.

From everything I've read it sounds like he was a very polarizing figure in a locker room that values team chemistry above all else. I believe one seahawk player was quoted as saying that some teammates loved Percy, others hated him. Sounds like THAT is the reason he's no longer a seahawk, regardless of his production.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[chinawildman]

What I find strange about this whole situation is that Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota in 2009 and 2010. While his #s weren't awesome, Harvin was targeted downfield and his usage completely different. In addition, if Percy's indeed a monumental pain in the ###, wouldn't Bevell have tipped off management or Carroll to these things prior to them blowing their wad on trading for him?

How many NFL receivers fit this description? You're over-thinking it, Harvin simply did not produce making his alleged attitude problem more of an issue. If Harvin was putting up numbers or could even be on the field consistently, Seahawks would have put up with him.

So are you inferring that Harvin isn't the same player he was 3 years ago? I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but Harvin has been productive in the past with Bevell over a longer period of time than his seahawks stint. How do you produce as a WR when all the touches you get are bubble screens and runs? From what I've seen of him this season he certainly doesn't look like he's lost a step.

From everything I've read it sounds like he was a very polarizing figure in a locker room that values team chemistry above all else. I believe one seahawk player was quoted as saying that some teammates loved Percy, others hated him. Sounds like THAT is the reason he's no longer a seahawk, regardless of his production.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Considering the same player has produced in the past with the same OC, it's a natural assumption to make if someone is implying that he is no longer productive under similar circumstances.

 

[SameSongNDance]

What I find strange about this whole situation is that Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota in 2009 and 2010. While his #s weren't awesome, Harvin was targeted downfield and his usage completely different. In addition, if Percy's indeed a monumental pain in the ###, wouldn't Bevell have tipped off management or Carroll to these things prior to them blowing their wad on trading for him?

How many NFL receivers fit this description? You're over-thinking it, Harvin simply did not produce making his alleged attitude problem more of an issue. If Harvin was putting up numbers or could even be on the field consistently, Seahawks would have put up with him.

So are you inferring that Harvin isn't the same player he was 3 years ago? I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but Harvin has been productive in the past with Bevell over a longer period of time than his seahawks stint. How do you produce as a WR when all the touches you get are bubble screens and runs? From what I've seen of him this season he certainly doesn't look like he's lost a step.

From everything I've read it sounds like he was a very polarizing figure in a locker room that values team chemistry above all else. I believe one seahawk player was quoted as saying that some teammates loved Percy, others hated him. Sounds like THAT is the reason he's no longer a seahawk, regardless of his production.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Considering the same player has produced in the past with the same OC, it's a natural assumption to make if someone is implying that he is no longer productive under similar circumstances.

His lack of production could simply be attributed to him being a bad fit for the team/offense. At first I had the same reaction as you when reading his post but talent =/= production. He still looks supremely talented to me anyway.

 

[Neofight]

What I find strange about this whole situation is that Bevell was Harvin's OC in Minnesota in 2009 and 2010. While his #s weren't awesome, Harvin was targeted downfield and his usage completely different. In addition, if Percy's indeed a monumental pain in the ###, wouldn't Bevell have tipped off management or Carroll to these things prior to them blowing their wad on trading for him?

How many NFL receivers fit this description? You're over-thinking it, Harvin simply did not produce making his alleged attitude problem more of an issue. If Harvin was putting up numbers or could even be on the field consistently, Seahawks would have put up with him.

So are you inferring that Harvin isn't the same player he was 3 years ago? I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but Harvin has been productive in the past with Bevell over a longer period of time than his seahawks stint. How do you produce as a WR when all the touches you get are bubble screens and runs? From what I've seen of him this season he certainly doesn't look like he's lost a step.

From everything I've read it sounds like he was a very polarizing figure in a locker room that values team chemistry above all else. I believe one seahawk player was quoted as saying that some teammates loved Percy, others hated him. Sounds like THAT is the reason he's no longer a seahawk, regardless of his production.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Considering the same player has produced in the past with the same OC, it's a natural assumption to make if someone is implying that he is no longer productive under similar circumstances.

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

 

[Bojang0301]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

 

[Buffaloes]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

?

pretty sure ppl were happy w Vick as a fantasy QB when he was running all over defences

 

[Bojang0301]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

I guess I should clarify before I get mob lynched by this board. I understand Wilson is a good and efficient QB, I just don't understand the hyperbole when people hated the inconsistency of Vick during his QB1 years, WIlson displays the same inconsistencies and people love him.

 

[Bojang0301]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

?

pretty sure ppl were happy w Vick as a fantasy QB when he was running all over defences

I remember it very differently. But maybe thats just me...

 

[Neofight]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

I guess I should clarify before I get mob lynched by this board. I understand Wilson is a good and efficient QB, I just don't understand the hyperbole when people hated the inconsistency of Vick during his QB1 years, WIlson displays the same inconsistencies and people love him.

Mike Vick was never the quaterback Wilson became in his second year. A lot of that has to do with Mike Vick.

 

[chinawildman]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

 

[Neofight]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

Everything else the same?

 

[cstu]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

I guess I should clarify before I get mob lynched by this board. I understand Wilson is a good and efficient QB, I just don't understand the hyperbole when people hated the inconsistency of Vick during his QB1 years, WIlson displays the same inconsistencies and people love him.

People love Wilson because he's a good QB and likely to become a better fantasy QB. Vick was a good fantasy QB but you could never trust him. Vick was my favorite player but he would kill me in the fantasy playoffs with his inconsistency.

 

[chinawildman]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

Everything else the same?

Of course not. But I'd like to hear your theory on why his YPC is now 1/2 of what it was with Bevell in Minnesota.

 

[just_want_2_win]

From RW:

The State Department released a statement indicating the Percy Harvin is the founder of ISIS. In related news, the CDC released a statement implicating Harvin in the spread of Ebola. The Fed is meeting Monday to discuss how Harvin drove down stock prices last week. The NOAA released a statement explaining how Harvin is responsible for the terrible drought gripping California.

 

[seahawk 17]

True. Some get hung up on, "Oh, he only throws for around 200 yards a game," but Wilson averages around 34 rushing yards per game, so at .1 per yard, that is like throwing for another 60-75 yards or so depending on your scoring system. And given that he's always in the 26-TD range, I'll take that kind of consistency from my QB, especially when getting him cheap allows me to load up everywhere else first.

People wouldn't even accept that from Mike Vick. But oooooo, if a guy is well spoken and seems intelligent he's $$$.

I guess I should clarify before I get mob lynched by this board. I understand Wilson is a good and efficient QB, I just don't understand the hyperbole when people hated the inconsistency of Vick during his QB1 years, WIlson displays the same inconsistencies and people love him.

In 3 seasons he has had 5 bad fantasy games. Last year he averaged 19.54 fantasy points per game.

 

[Neofight]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

Everything else the same?

Of course not. But I'd like to hear your theory on why his YPC is now 1/2 of what it was with Bevell in Minnesota.

YPC or YPR? Either way, what does it matter? It's a different system and staff. Your expectations (or mine) don't really matter. He's clearly still a stud physically; and he's clearly lacking in the emotional/mental side.How long would you expect Pete Carroll to put up with a guy they are switching their game plan up for (to the teams detriment) when he pays them back by taking himself out of the game?

ETA: consider also that if the reports are true about fights with Baldwin, Tate, Wilson et al. It might go a good ways toward explaining his lack of production.

 

[chinawildman]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

Everything else the same?

Of course not. But I'd like to hear your theory on why his YPC is now 1/2 of what it was with Bevell in Minnesota.

YPC or YPR? Either way, what does it matter? It's a different system and staff. Your expectations (or mine) don't really matter. He's clearly still a stud physically; and he's clearly lacking in the emotional/mental side.How long would you expect Pete Carroll to put up with a guy they are switching their game plan up for (to the teams detriment) when he pays them back by taking himself out of the game?

ETA: consider also that if the reports are true about fights with Baldwin, Tate, Wilson et al. It might go a good ways toward explaining his lack of production.

It matters because the reasons for his decline in production will say a great deal about his prospects down the line.

My whole issue is why are they switching up their game plan up for him in the first place? I don't recall Harvin needing touches "manufactured" for him in Minnesota, and he had some pretty decent #s despite some lackluster quarterbacking. Who knows, maybe because Harvin and Wilson were never on the same page, the only way to get Percy the ball was through these gadget plays.

 

[Neofight]

You made the assumption, Doc made an assessment. Harvin wasn't producing and wasn't worth the headache. Recent history paints a pretty clear picture as to why that is.

I guess for me it's not that clear. He had the same OC he had in Minnesota, and yet his usage on offense and how he got his touches were very different.

Everything else the same?

Of course not. But I'd like to hear your theory on why his YPC is now 1/2 of what it was with Bevell in Minnesota.

YPC or YPR? Either way, what does it matter? It's a different system and staff. Your expectations (or mine) don't really matter. He's clearly still a stud physically; and he's clearly lacking in the emotional/mental side.How long would you expect Pete Carroll to put up with a guy they are switching their game plan up for (to the teams detriment) when he pays them back by taking himself out of the game?

ETA: consider also that if the reports are true about fights with Baldwin, Tate, Wilson et al. It might go a good ways toward explaining his lack of production.

It matters because the reasons for his decline in production will say a great deal about his prospects down the line.

My whole issue is why are they switching up their game plan up for him in the first place? I don't recall Harvin needing touches "manufactured" for him in Minnesota, and he had some pretty decent #s despite some lackluster quarterbacking. Who knows, maybe because Harvin and Wilson were never on the same page, the only way to get Percy the ball was through these gadget plays.

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the fieldHow Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

 

[Donnybrook]

Hawks fleeced the Vikings

 

[chinawildman]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I agree with most of what you said. Though the metrics are likely skewed due to the low upside success rate of the type of plays they ran using Harvin when he was in. I'll also add that some of Seattle's struggles as a play action team in their losses likely has to do with the fact that they've never had a chance to establish the run in the first place due to time of possession.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I don't understand why people believe that Harvin can't run routes past the LoS. Are people really trying to imply that 2012 Percy Harvin was on pace for 1354 receiving yards by running a bunch of bubble screens? The logistics of that don't even make sense. It's somewhat absurd.

 

[dschuler]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Hawks fleeced the Vikings

LMFAO

Scientist strikes again

 

[Donnybrook]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

How big do you have to be to be a possession receiver?

 

[SameSongNDance]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

How big do you have to be to be a possession receiver?

I think Welker is like 6'3 or 6'4. Yeah, you need to be a minimum of 6'3, 220 to be a solid possession receiver.

 

[rdrouyn]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

He is a head case don't get me wrong, but I think he has shown enough to say he's a good NFL receiver.

 

[cstu]

Kerley hasn't been getting it done and I view Harvin as his replacement. Kerley was averaging 6.5 targets a game and I think Harvin gets at least that many.

 

[General Tso]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

How big do you have to be to be a possession receiver?

I think Welker is like 6'3 or 6'4. Yeah, you need to be a minimum of 6'3, 220 to be a solid possession receiver.

Uh, Wes Welker is 5'9.

 

[davidwb]

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

[gianmarco]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

Yep, he's a stick figure

 

[Neofight]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I don't understand why people believe that Harvin can't run routes past the LoS. Are people really trying to imply that 2012 Percy Harvin was on pace for 1354 receiving yards by running a bunch of bubble screens? The logistics of that don't even make sense. It's somewhat absurd.

He doesn't run great deep routes. That's been true for his entire career. I don't have the breakdown of what percentage of the yardage he had in 2012 was on throws greater than 20 yards down field, but I'd love to see it if you do.ETA- best I can do is find Y/R was 10.9 in 2012. That's an indicator that he wasn't catching much down the field.

 

[msommer]

In PPR Harvin is about WR60. Can it get any worse for someone touted before the season as a top ten candidate?

WR40 in my PPR league, which is still well below expectations, but how is he WR60 in your league?

22 receptions 133 yards 0 TD. 92 yards rushing and a TD. Also a fumble lost

 

[cstu]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

 

[Casting Couch]

As a Harvin owner - :X

Its a very confusing time.

For some reason FF owners get very excited when players get traded in the NFL.

Mid season trades usually blow. Anyone remember Braylon to the Jets?

Remember Deion Branch to the Pats? He put up very good fantasy numbers the rest of that season

People are reaching here, as far as a landing spot for Harvin is concerned, this is one of the bottom 5 spots in the league he could have ended up, imo.

 

[cvnpoka]

Harvin is not a good WR, plain and simple. He's not a deep threat, and not big enough to be a possession WR. He's a stick figure more fragile than glass with a bad attitude.

ok bruh. good call. yup. nice one.

 

[jurb26]

Have you watched many Seahawks games this year? Harvin was ok running the smoke and bubble screens and other short to intermediate routes, but wasn't great running his routes downfield. That's pretty much what I remember from his days in Minnesota. Problem is, Seattle loves to take shots downfield via play action. That's not Harvin's strength. Other factors are involved, but for many people that thought Harvin was an unnecessary luxury for Seattle from the start, it makes sense that they would cut their loses now. It was a failed experiment and Schneider was smart enough to move on (though foolish enough to overpay initially). But looking at the metrics, Wilson and the Seahawks were more efficient without Harvin on the field

How Harvin performs with the Jets is anyone's guess. He has the talent, but does he fit their system? He is a unique player, but not necessarily a great WR.

I don't understand why people believe that Harvin can't run routes past the LoS. Are people really trying to imply that 2012 Percy Harvin was on pace for 1354 receiving yards by running a bunch of bubble screens? The logistics of that don't even make sense. It's somewhat absurd.

He doesn't run great deep routes. That's been true for his entire career. I don't have the breakdown of what percentage of the yardage he had in 2012 was on throws greater than 20 yards down field, but I'd love to see it if you do.ETA- best I can do is find Y/R was 10.9 in 2012. That's an indicator that he wasn't catching much down the field.

That's because he wasn't catching that many passes down field for Minn, either. More than Sea, sure. He just isn't a very good down field WR no matter how people keep trying to spin it.

 

[Donnybrook]

Getting Harvin sets the Jets up to draft Mariota (if they can get him) or Winston.

As usual, I don't follow your logic. The Jets are not the worst team in the league and Harvin could help them win close games. As well, Harvin made Ponder look good so he could have a similar effect on Geno.

 

[Faust]

Percy Harvin's locker room conduct factored in trade

Report: Percy Harvin gave Golden Tate black eye before Super Bowl

 

[jurb26]

Rushes for WRs are flukey, while he can pop one at anytime as someone said it is a low quality type touch. I dont consider the quality as much as he does because he can pop it off, but 100 touches at low quality is not a hot endorsement for being a great number.

That's fine. Liking the opportunity he's been given and lack of opportunity are not the same thing. He's had opportunity. If you want to argue it wasn't the right opportunity then fine. Entering the year however I think most Harvin owners would have been ecstatic if you would have told them ahead of time Harvin would catch 70 balls and rush 35 times.Somehow, I get the feeling the same people claiming he's not had opportunity would be complaining if they used him just as much if not more but on deep plays and his catch rate was only 50%. Then we would be hearing about how dangerous he is with the ball in his hands and they need to get it to him quick and in space.

I've got issues with the way he's been used which I haven't gotten into. That doesn't change the fact that he has been used a great deal.

I think your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. I'm curious what % of his catches began behind the LOS. Has to be near 60-70%. You have to use him on screens and swing passes, but not to the degree and predictability which Seattle was.The Jets aren't an ideal landing spot, but his "usage," however you want to define or assess that, won't be any worse than it was for the Seahawks.

My issue begins with the % of targets/touches in relation to his snap count in Sea. Essentially when Harvin is in the game you can expect a greater than 20% probability the ball is going to him. Often times at or near the LOS, to boot. For a WR that is significant and something that I think all DCs will key on. Hell, if armchair QBs like myself can figure it out what do you think real NFL coaches will do with the information? On top of it his usage isn't varied enough for my taste. I've never been a proponent that Harvin is a good downfield WR but you have to change things up in the NFL and simply not show your hand as much as Sea was with Harvin. I think teams were able to key heavily on Harvin based on his snap count, formation and overall usage. It thus effected the efficiency of the plays and opps he was getting.

I'm not sure what you think you've figured out. #1 WR's get more than 20% of a team's targets typically, so you could say that when Dez Bryant's on the field, there's a greater than 20% probability that the ball is going to him too. When Harvin is on the field, there's an 80% chance he's not getting the ball. What is there to key on?

Harvin not a WR1. Start there...

Well he lead the Seahawks in targets. I certainly don't see anyone else on that team who you could call their #1 receiver.

Even so, that's not really relevant to the point, which seems to be that defenses were able to "key" on Harvin because they knew that when he was on the field, there was a 20% chance the ball would go to him.

You don't see anyone else on the team who would be called the #1? How about the 2 guys who are seeing significantly more snaps than him? Baldwin has seen 89% of the offensive snaps! Kearse 85%. Harvin? How about 60%. It's blatantly obvious he wasn't their #1 WR. Even more so when you consider he was almost exclusively used in the slot and rarely outside, where WR1s must play. You referenced Bryant earlier so perspective he leads his team in WRs snaps at 84% with the next best guy being at 80%. His target rate on snaps is only 16%. So yes, that is statistically relevant in comparison to Harvin.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

who was that idiot in minny who was puffing himself up thinking he 'stole' harvin from the pats in the draft?

 

[Neofight]

Rushes for WRs are flukey, while he can pop one at anytime as someone said it is a low quality type touch. I dont consider the quality as much as he does because he can pop it off, but 100 touches at low quality is not a hot endorsement for being a great number.

That's fine. Liking the opportunity he's been given and lack of opportunity are not the same thing. He's had opportunity. If you want to argue it wasn't the right opportunity then fine. Entering the year however I think most Harvin owners would have been ecstatic if you would have told them ahead of time Harvin would catch 70 balls and rush 35 times.Somehow, I get the feeling the same people claiming he's not had opportunity would be complaining if they used him just as much if not more but on deep plays and his catch rate was only 50%. Then we would be hearing about how dangerous he is with the ball in his hands and they need to get it to him quick and in space.

I've got issues with the way he's been used which I haven't gotten into. That doesn't change the fact that he has been used a great deal.

I think your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. I'm curious what % of his catches began behind the LOS. Has to be near 60-70%. You have to use him on screens and swing passes, but not to the degree and predictability which Seattle was.The Jets aren't an ideal landing spot, but his "usage," however you want to define or assess that, won't be any worse than it was for the Seahawks.

My issue begins with the % of targets/touches in relation to his snap count in Sea. Essentially when Harvin is in the game you can expect a greater than 20% probability the ball is going to him. Often times at or near the LOS, to boot. For a WR that is significant and something that I think all DCs will key on. Hell, if armchair QBs like myself can figure it out what do you think real NFL coaches will do with the information? On top of it his usage isn't varied enough for my taste. I've never been a proponent that Harvin is a good downfield WR but you have to change things up in the NFL and simply not show your hand as much as Sea was with Harvin. I think teams were able to key heavily on Harvin based on his snap count, formation and overall usage. It thus effected the efficiency of the plays and opps he was getting.

I'm not sure what you think you've figured out. #1 WR's get more than 20% of a team's targets typically, so you could say that when Dez Bryant's on the field, there's a greater than 20% probability that the ball is going to him too. When Harvin is on the field, there's an 80% chance he's not getting the ball. What is there to key on?

Harvin not a WR1. Start there...

Well he lead the Seahawks in targets. I certainly don't see anyone else on that team who you could call their #1 receiver.

Even so, that's not really relevant to the point, which seems to be that defenses were able to "key" on Harvin because they knew that when he was on the field, there was a 20% chance the ball would go to him.

You don't see anyone else on the team who would be called the #1? How about the 2 guys who are seeing significantly more snaps than him? Baldwin has seen 89% of the offensive snaps! Kearse 85%. Harvin? How about 60%. It's blatantly obvious he wasn't their #1 WR. Even more so when you consider he was almost exclusively used in the slot and rarely outside, where WR1s must play. You referenced Bryant earlier so perspective he leads his team in WRs snaps at 84% with the next best guy being at 80%. His target rate on snaps is only 16%. So yes, that is statistically relevant in comparison to Harvin.

Harvin definitely wasn't the Seahawks #1 and likely won't be the Jets either. That's not to say he won't thrive, but I doubt he gets more snaps and targets than Decker unless Decker is injured. As for the Seahawks, it seems more like the team doesn't have a true #1. The biggest advantage of jettisoning Harvin is that they can now look at the rookies to see what they got.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Can you really fault anyone for body slamming Golden Tate?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

 

[SameSongNDance]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

I don't know how giving up a conditional 6th rounder and owing Harvin exactly zero $ down the road constitutes being fleeced. SEA got fleeced, NYJ got value.

 

[Donnybrook]

mike freeman ✔ @mikefreemanNFL Follow

I think unfair to Jets but I'll pass along: in texts/conversations with 6 personnel men since Harvin trade consensus is Jets got fleeced.

When your team is the defending champion, your team management can do no wrong. Similar to when the Personnel men were singing the praises of the Patriots when they acquired Albert Haynesworth and Ocho Cinco.

 

[carverlee]

The real issue, and what keeps getting overlooked here, is Kerley already holds the #11 jersey. What is to be done about this?

 

[jurb26]

The real issue, and what keeps getting overlooked here, is Kerley already holds the #11 jersey. What is to be done about this?

Too early to suggest they fight for it?