Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Plain and simple, Harvins value now that he is a Jet compared to that when he was a Seahawk. place your vote.
Good, Bad, the Same.
Good, Bad, the Same.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Harvin to the Jets a GOOD or BAD thing fantasy wise? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jerry Curl
- Start date
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Meh, SEA is 30th in the league in passing attempts per game anyway. The answer to this poll is either "same" or "good" because it honestly doesn't seem like it could have gotten much worse for Harvin in SEA. They actually looked like they were trying to manufacture him touches but even with him being utilized 8-10 times a game they were getting no return (negative production last week
). The Jets won't keep him on a snap count, pass more, will likely be playing catch up more often. The real question is whether or not Harvin will be able to contribute right away. He'd have to adjust, learn the playbook and terminology in essentially a week.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Should have done better with the Seahawks then.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
They are both equally bad. Lateral move
Courtweeks87
Footballguy
I think that the biggest benefactor is going to be decker. Finally another talent that will most likely draw the safety. Decker should get a fighting chance finally instead of double or triple coverage. Ivory should have more running room too!
BEST WR. i like decker as much as the next guy but he is nowhere neath the talent that harvin is. Harvin is a game breaking player.
Maybe I'm forgetting someone but struggling to come up with any offensive player that left the Jets and went to be good fantasy performers. I guess you could say Woodhead but he was not even that much of a fantasy player in NE.
Point is it's not Rex, it's the talent, or lack of talent.
Courtweeks87
Footballguy
Not similar to either
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Why did the Seahawks trade Percy Harvin to the Jets?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000412483/article/why-did-the-seahawks-trade-percy-harvin
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000412483/article/why-did-the-seahawks-trade-percy-harvin
jurb26
Footballguy
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
most fantasy football trades hurt the traded player. this is not like fantasy NBA or MLB.
Run It Up
Footballguy
No I did mean his rushing attempts AND his receiving/rushing TDs that were negated.
He was far and away the best offensive player on that team not named Lynch - and was severely under utilized.
Product of being a run first team with an amazing defense and also being used poorly. When you have only 5 targets a game but are catching 85% of them in addition to being the best receiver - you are being under utilized.
He was just not a right fit for the offense.
Last edited by a moderator:
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Meh. No strong feelings either way. Wasn't targeting him in preseason. And not now. Down if anything. Had 3 TD's taken away vs. Washington. Obviously did nothing in Dallas game.
Droppable/end of bench in redraft. History of mid-season WR changes isn't good. There's no Tom Brady here at QB. Run first offense that barely supports one fantasy relevant WR. If you like Harvin on the fly vs. Decker, your opinion may differ.
As mentioned in other thread, I don't think the grass is greener here. Didn't feel utilization was issue in Seattle. They utilized him as runner, kick returner and receiver. Unfortunately had several big plays called back by penalty. Didn't feel he'd get consistent targets on an offense that threw 25 times/game last yr (and 28 time/game this year)
Droppable/end of bench in redraft. History of mid-season WR changes isn't good. There's no Tom Brady here at QB. Run first offense that barely supports one fantasy relevant WR. If you like Harvin on the fly vs. Decker, your opinion may differ.
As mentioned in other thread, I don't think the grass is greener here. Didn't feel utilization was issue in Seattle. They utilized him as runner, kick returner and receiver. Unfortunately had several big plays called back by penalty. Didn't feel he'd get consistent targets on an offense that threw 25 times/game last yr (and 28 time/game this year)
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26
Footballguy
He only caught 85% because he ran no route deeper than 10 yds. I'd say his usage was very fair given the offense. Basically, he was given over 7.5 opportunities to touch the ball a game. That was clearly 2nd to Lynch on the team. He just wasn't breaking plays with his opps. For a guy like Harvin and his skill set that will come with continued looks. I don't think usage was a problem, though.
cstu
Footballguy
Holmes had a good season (WR20) after getting traded to the Jets and had 8.6 targets a game (excluding week 17 when most of the starters sat).
That was with Sanchez at QB.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gopher State
Footballguy
Bad only starting QB in the NFL with a worst passing rating then Geno is Bridgewater, and look what does for Patterson FF value
ZWK
Footballguy
Bad for Harvin in dynasty, not much change in redraft.
Being traded is generally a bad sign for a football player - it's typically more about his old team wanting to get rid of him than his new team wanting to acquire him. And that seems to be true in this case. So I've moved Harvin down my dynasty rankings, compared to where I had him rated yesterday.
The downgrade at QB also hurts, for dynasty more than for redraft. I expect that the 2016 Seahawks passing offense will be more prolific than the 2016 Jets passing offense. For this season, the change of passing offense is less relevant since Seattle and NYJ are basically tied in passing yards per game (tied for last in the NFL, unfortunately).
For this year, the change of scenery adds variance which is a good thing in standard fantasy leagues since he's been below baseline so far. On the other hand, the trade is costing him two games and he may have to be eased into the new offense.
Being traded is generally a bad sign for a football player - it's typically more about his old team wanting to get rid of him than his new team wanting to acquire him. And that seems to be true in this case. So I've moved Harvin down my dynasty rankings, compared to where I had him rated yesterday.
The downgrade at QB also hurts, for dynasty more than for redraft. I expect that the 2016 Seahawks passing offense will be more prolific than the 2016 Jets passing offense. For this season, the change of passing offense is less relevant since Seattle and NYJ are basically tied in passing yards per game (tied for last in the NFL, unfortunately).
For this year, the change of scenery adds variance which is a good thing in standard fantasy leagues since he's been below baseline so far. On the other hand, the trade is costing him two games and he may have to be eased into the new offense.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Honestly feel his chances are better with a more "careless" QB. Seahawks were all about mitigating turnovers, and thus deeper throws to Harvin (on what were presumably poor routes) never materialized. Conversely the Jets have little to lose by just letting Harvin loose at this point and seeing what they've got in him.
Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
Gonna go with "same", I don't trust Marty as the OC and Geno as his QB to use him effectively.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Has changing teams mid-season ever been good for anyone's numbers for the rest of that season? It's going to take time to adjust and learn the offense. Maybe he's better next year but I don't see him being dependable this season. I am selling for anything decent.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Sportscenter put up a stat in regards to his targets in Seattle vs. Minnesota. Targeted 4.5 times per game in Seattle vs. 7.3 times per game in Minnesota. Keep in mind that Minnesota number includes his first two years where he was still figuring things out and was targeted less often. Realistically his last couple years in Minnesota he probably saw about twice as many targets per game as he was seeing this year in Seattle, with far more of them being further downfield to boot.
I don't trust the Jets, but at least getting the opportunity to once again be a guy who's both a gadget player AND an actual receiver has to leave at least a little room for optimism. I don't think Geno is too big a worry as Harvin was WR3 through the first half of 2012 with Christian Ponder as his QB. I think he's better off getting more looks, especially downfield, with a worse QB than he is getting only LoS stuff from a good QB. We'll see if the Jets use him that way or see him as just another occasional trick play guy.
I don't trust the Jets, but at least getting the opportunity to once again be a guy who's both a gadget player AND an actual receiver has to leave at least a little room for optimism. I don't think Geno is too big a worry as Harvin was WR3 through the first half of 2012 with Christian Ponder as his QB. I think he's better off getting more looks, especially downfield, with a worse QB than he is getting only LoS stuff from a good QB. We'll see if the Jets use him that way or see him as just another occasional trick play guy.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
To me, it is down for at least the next month, value the same after that for a little while, then value better after that. Not a lot, but better.
I dont think Seattle was a good fit at all.
I dont think Seattle was a good fit at all.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
@ people thinking a guy who wasnt used in an offense going to another one who plans to use him as a bad thing.I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yards from scrimmage per game:
2009 62
2010 70
2011 82
2012 86
No reason he can't return to those general numbers if the Jets make him the centerpiece of their offense.
But long run I'd be selling. Carroll seems to have a long leash with guys, and not being able to make it work there should be a big yellow/red flag IMO.
2009 62
2010 70
2011 82
2012 86
No reason he can't return to those general numbers if the Jets make him the centerpiece of their offense.
But long run I'd be selling. Carroll seems to have a long leash with guys, and not being able to make it work there should be a big yellow/red flag IMO.
Ability + Opportunity = Performance
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
It's like everyone has totally forgotten about the Opportunity aspect of the equation.
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
And when you factor in his touches were bubble screens and reverses. Those are not quality touches. A bubble screens is a rush basically and reverses have to have everything go right to succeed and not run 2 a gameAbility + Opportunity = PerformanceIt's like everyone has totally forgotten about the Opportunity aspect of the equation.
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
For instance, people say he is droppable. Anyone who has said that means they would have rostered him until now. Now is after his 0 yards on 3 catches and 3 rushes for -1 yard performance last week. So if you think getting traded to the Jets can be worse than that, I dont know what to say.Ability + Opportunity = Performance
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
It's like everyone has totally forgotten about the Opportunity aspect of the equation.
He has just as good of a chance to take it to the house on a bubble screen, or designed rush on any given week as anyone else. He is a playmaker, he has made plays this year that have been called back on penalty. Why are people looking at this as a negative thing when in in no way can get worse for Harvin, barring injury of course.
Some also do not believe his talent adds a dimension to a team that hasnt had his kind of talent, again, I dont what to say. Geno has been horrible at throwing interceptions and taking sacks making bad reads, what does that matter to Harvin? Genos interceptions are not negative points for Harvin if anything Geno will feed him.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
So now its down to quality of touches? Ask Antone Smith about Quality of touches. Plus you are assuming the Jets will feed him less then the Seahawks and use him the same way.And when you factor in his touches were bubble screens and reverses. Those are not quality touches. A bubble screens is a rush basically and reverses have to have everything go right to succeed and not run 2 a gameAbility + Opportunity = PerformanceIt's like everyone has totally forgotten about the Opportunity aspect of the equation.
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
He is a wr being used out of position. Anyone smith is an exception don't play stupidSo now its down to quality of touches? Ask Antone Smith about Quality of touches. Plus you are assuming the Jets will feed him less then the Seahawks and use him the same way.And when you factor in his touches were bubble screens and reverses. Those are not quality touches. A bubble screens is a rush basically and reverses have to have everything go right to succeed and not run 2 a gameAbility + Opportunity = PerformanceIt's like everyone has totally forgotten about the Opportunity aspect of the equation.
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
I am assuming Jets use him as a wr not as a gimmick. You know let him catch a ball beyond the line of scrimmage
Funny how quick we forget 2 weeks ago he had 3 Tds in one game called back. Yeah he sucks
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Deep throws never materialized in MIN either.
For a guy with serious quickness, I've always found it odd Harvin doesn't stretch the field.
His rep in the FF community has always been he's explosive and can score from anywhere in a myriad of ways. Yet his number of plays over 20 yards and 40 yards lags most elite WR.
He might be the most overrated player of all-time.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
Same, Harvin is the same average receiver in NY that he was everywhere else. He has insane game breaking skills but just as pure wr he isn't better than Decker, Decker is one of the premier route runners in the NFL, has size and decent speed and good hands. Harvin almost strictly relies on gadgety type plays to score big fantasy points, he just went from a creative offensive team to the worst offensive minded coach in the NFL. I do think Rex will try to force feed Harvin the ball, but the downgrade of overall team means more of the same from Harvin as a fantasy player.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Quick, name the best offensive skill position player Rex Ryan has ever had on the Jets?John Paul said:
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Not involved in the passing game? He lead the Seahawks in targets.
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
It's probably Santonio Holmes or Thomas Jones.
i.e. he's had garbage his entire time there.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
I should have said game plan, I worded that wrong. He received the most target but this isnt a passing team and rarely did they plan for Harvin to be the focal point.Not involved in the passing game? He lead the Seahawks in targets.
I said in another thread, people think playing with Geno at QB is bad? What good is Wilson if they are not involving Harvin in the passing game?
Similar threads
