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Harvin vs Andre Johnson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raiders
- Start date
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I FEAL harvin will.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Asst coach forum not working???
I just have a gut feeling that Harvin will have a better season. I think you can expect about 1500 total yards out of Harvin, which will be more receiving yards then Johnson. I think they will both be around 7 to 10 touchdowns, so I call this a push, I also think they will be even on receptions because Houston is a run first team, they are in a bad division and likely will be resting starters in the 4th quarter of some games this year. Minnesota on the other hand is in a very strong division and will be playing from behind a lot this season, and will probably never have the luxury of resting their starters in the 4th quarter of blow out wins. I also think Harvin has gotten past his migraine issues and health isn't an issue, Johnson is 31 and health is always an issue. However, this is my opinion, and I am biased because I have been burned by Johnson many times, and I just got Harvin in a trade.
Raiders
Footballguy
Dude I've bee using these boards since it was cheetsheets.net. I know the rules. In what way is this an assistant coach thread? I've been on these boards almost 365 days a year for 13 years and rarely post for a variety of reasons, 1 example being your response. The question that I have remains. To start the season most people had harvin as anywhere between wr 12- 20. AJ was viewed much higher than that. Today when I'm looking at my FBG ratings they are ranked 4th and 5th each on a PPR. My question is what's the general pop think?'Multiple Scores said:
packersfan
Footballguy
If Andre can stay healthy for the entire season I think he's the superior wide receiver in all formats.
I do love Percy, though, and the Vikings seem to have finally figured out that more Percy is a good thing for their offense. In his last nine games dating back to last season he's caught at least five passes in every game but one and has had at least 85 total yards in every game but two.
I do love Percy, though, and the Vikings seem to have finally figured out that more Percy is a good thing for their offense. In his last nine games dating back to last season he's caught at least five passes in every game but one and has had at least 85 total yards in every game but two.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Wow, little touchy I see.Since you don't ask why, most would assume you're asking for roster/trade help.......and as you know, belong in the ACF.But for what it's worth, if AJ stays healthy(big if), he'll far surpass Harvin.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
It was a pretty simple question with no reference to his personal league. IMO, there's no reason to assume he was asking for help.Responses like the ones he quoted are why I stopped posting here for so long as well. The value of this forum is brought down substantially by those that feel they need to flex their internet muscles by posting solely to pick a fight or make some passive aggressive comment while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. There's a ton of great info, debates, and insight in the shark pool, but it's riddled with useless posts like those.IMO, Johnson will outscore Harvin if he stays healthy. I don't trust him to stay healthy, though, so I'd prefer Harvin.
Amen Brotha. It's as if the same several members just sit there licking their chops, waiting for a thread or a post to pick on and to gang up on the poster and try to make him feel like a putz. As for the aj harvin debate, I think aj has seen his best days, hasn't played a full season in a while. Whereas harvin is just entering into his prime and is even more of a focal point of his offense than aj is. I like Harvins chances better in total yards and Tds, perhaps even in receptions. Andre has the better qb throwing him the ball but I believe that is nullified by Houston running more of a run first offense. Sounds crazy I guess but I believe that if there is a torch bw these 2 wrs it's currently being passed to harvin.
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I like what you are saying but I would compare Harvin to Steve Smith
Mile High
Footballguy
This whole board would be better off if some of these guys would take the time to go into the ACF and post there once in awhile instead of playing moderator.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
When the two players are considered top picks at their position and are very comparable, I think it would be great to be able to see those discussions, too. Not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic or not, though.
What else could possibly be the reason behind this? It has no other value. At this point of the season these types of threads are solely for trade purposes. After the season/before the next season these player vs. player threads are from managers trying to pick their keepers. As someone else alluded (and yes, TheLastDispatch, I'm certain it was said with sarcasm), if we had a million player vs. player threads this place would be even more diluted with frivolous topics than it already is.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Disagree, and clearly a number of other people do as well. If you have a problem with it though and want to assign motives without evidence, just don't post here then. Go to another thread. Pretty simple, IMO.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
redraft I would take AJ by an inch
bbuster
Footballguy
If AJ stays healthy, I think he's still a beast. I still don't completely trust Harvin. He's in a fairly week offense with a young QB and I don't trust his ability to stay healthy any more than AJ. So obviously I think AJ and I'm not sure it's even that close. I have both on various teams.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
FF Ninja is right on here. This it's a thinly-veiled "should I make this trade" thread. It is an interesting question to ask. In the ACF. But, not as some philosophical dilemma one ponders on a saturday evening, wrestling with it to the point of saying yeah, let me post on fbg where I haven't posted in a decade and see what the collective thinks. I've been pleading Joe to consider getting rid of the ACF and making the SP a team/sport driven thread, while creating a FF thread where lineups, trades, predictions could be made. Both would be popular, and there wouldn't be the stigma that plagues the ACF.Disagree, and clearly a number of other people do as well. If you have a problem with it though and want to assign motives without evidence, just don't post here then. Go to another thread. Pretty simple, IMO.
foxco
Footballguy
I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic. And I like AJ over Harvin this year (if healthy, natch).
djmich
Footballguy
I think this is right, AJ is a lock when he plays. The value narrows in dynasty of course.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
well i opened this thread out of interest in the responses as i own Harvin and believe he will end the year with better numbers. ...thats why i drafted him.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
The reason is flawed. People hear Harvin's name and get all skittish from Harvin's migrane history even though by all accounts it appears to be under control through sleep apnea treatment.Dude finished WR7 last year with McNabb and a rookie throwing him the ball and only being used between 55-60% of snap counts. Massively undervalued during this year's drafts.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
A.J has burned me 2 years in a row,it was time to go in a different direction...sick of drafting a ''name''
Good thread. Both situations are actually pretty similar.
Both are in a dome, both are in run first offenses.
Both are the #1 target in their offense with stud RB's the defense has to respect.
I think the edge goes to Harvin with the Vikings likely having to throw more because they are behind.
Harvin by a nose.
Both are in a dome, both are in run first offenses.
Both are the #1 target in their offense with stud RB's the defense has to respect.
I think the edge goes to Harvin with the Vikings likely having to throw more because they are behind.
Harvin by a nose.
habsfan
Footballguy
I think comparison threads have the potential to focus the discussion a bit differently. I particularly like the "hot waiver wire darling x versus y" threads.RE: AJ / Harvin, I also want Harvin by a nose based on the extra "utility" plays he gets.
All the statements along the lines of, "If Andre stays healthy, it's him by a wide margin...duh," are delusional.
In the current incarnation of the Minnesota offense, with Ponder at the helm, all we have to go on is the last half of last year, but that's not exactly a trivial sample size. Harvin was right in the neighborhood of 900/8 for half a season in this O.
If both guys stay healthy AND both produce at the best extended-stretch levels of their entire careers, Harvin still SLAUGHTERS AJ over the course of a whole season.
For AJ to be the "obvious" choice, he'd have to produce at the best level of his career, and Harvin's per-game performance would have to take a precipitous dip.
People are too hung up on the name value and the past All-Pro status, and not focused enough on how the players fare in their current incarnations.
In the current incarnation of the Minnesota offense, with Ponder at the helm, all we have to go on is the last half of last year, but that's not exactly a trivial sample size. Harvin was right in the neighborhood of 900/8 for half a season in this O.
If both guys stay healthy AND both produce at the best extended-stretch levels of their entire careers, Harvin still SLAUGHTERS AJ over the course of a whole season.
For AJ to be the "obvious" choice, he'd have to produce at the best level of his career, and Harvin's per-game performance would have to take a precipitous dip.
People are too hung up on the name value and the past All-Pro status, and not focused enough on how the players fare in their current incarnations.
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Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I was on the fence all the way through this thread. I think your point here has led me to take the Harvin side - albeit by a very slim margin.
And clearly a number of people like to post thinly veiled AC topics in the SP, so of course they're going to support others who pull the same B.S.The tired argument of "if you don't like it, don't open it" is ignorant. If it were that simple, then there would be no rule against posting AC crap in the SP because people could simply not read it, right? But in reality, the SP gets so clogged up with this crap that sifting through the B.S. topics become laborious and the SP loses its value.It is sad that people are sticking up for this worthless thread, because the fact that the guy went so far as to add that we're talking about PPR specifically makes the trade advice intent even more obvious. He's clearly not just having an NFL discussion here on two players. This is a league specific topic which makes it apparent to any semi-intelligent reader that we're looking at a "should I make this trade" thread.Disagree, and clearly a number of other people do as well. If you have a problem with it though and want to assign motives without evidence, just don't post here then. Go to another thread. Pretty simple, IMO.
Mash
Footballguy
I think the answer to this question becomes much clearer after today's games. If Leslie Frazier is going to get fired, it will be on the backs of AP and Harvin. I think Harvin cruises past 110 receptions this year, and it's a bonus if you have him in a return-yardage league. He is their ONLY weapon in the passing game, and because he is so dynamic with the ball in his hands, he's a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball.
Andre Johnson is equally talented, in different ways, but is in a much different situation. The Texans have multiple weapons on their offense, and when they get Tate and Foster going at the same time, you are going to see some games like this for Johnson.
Like I said, I would not even think about it if I owned AJ and someone offered me Harvin. I would accept immediately. If someone offered me AJ for Harvin, I don't think I make that trade.
Andre Johnson is equally talented, in different ways, but is in a much different situation. The Texans have multiple weapons on their offense, and when they get Tate and Foster going at the same time, you are going to see some games like this for Johnson.
Like I said, I would not even think about it if I owned AJ and someone offered me Harvin. I would accept immediately. If someone offered me AJ for Harvin, I don't think I make that trade.
lod01
Footballguy
The Texans D is hurting AJ's opportunities. They are as good as it gets and today was the type of opponent that can't do anything against that D so they don't need to throw the ball.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
I agree with Iod's point that the Texans D is hurting AJ's value. If they were in more shootouts, they'd be throwing more. I was leaning toward AJ if healthy, but this makes me reconsider. We'll see going forward, but hard to not be really high on Harvin right now.
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Today's games are exactly why Harvin is better in both redraft and dynasty leagues. Vikings suck and will be playing from behind and when they are behind he is their only weapon to help get them back in the game. The Texans should be the favorite to come out of the AFC and they have the best running game in the league and one of the best defenses.
I own both players in a number of leagues so am obviously very high on both but I think this is a moronic post. You think Harvin "SLAUGHTERS" one of the best receivers in the NFL? I realize that AJ had a "bad" game today (not like it was his fault he caught 3 of 4 targets) but thats mostly just a focus of the team's game plan this week and the large lead that built up very early on. In a game that is either close or sees the Texans playing from behind (or in the case of the Dolphins game just about any other game), AJ is going to be the stud that he is. I have both guys right around top 5 for ppr and stand by it. I think a lot of ppl are far to quick to react to a given week with a guy like Andre or Marshall.
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BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Its been awhile since A.J has played like one of the best WR in the NFL...just sayin.
packersfan
Footballguy
He put up 8-119-1 in Week 1 and had 13-201-1 in two playoff games last season.
foxco
Footballguy
By a while I think he meant 8 days.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think it is cool that Harvin is getting compared to one of the best WR in the league for a long time. Deservedly so. That being said they are very different players.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
i meant consistently
Shutout
Footballguy
Huh? Is your brain made of DVR hardware and can only hold yesterday's game? JK with you but seriously, yesterday's game was a downer but, game in and game out, AJ is a legit threat for 18-20 points almost every week. I think its splitting hairs and the USE of Harvin AT THIS TIME makes it a good discussion but in the broader spectrum (long term, thinking of "what if the Vikes get ahead in a game, etc), I think its really close but can almost always see AJ getting that BIG BIG play in a game.
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't know the intent of the OP and I think MANY times in these forums people are very quick to assume they know what others intend, mean, etcAnd clearly a number of people like to post thinly veiled AC topics in the SP, so of course they're going to support others who pull the same B.S.The tired argument of "if you don't like it, don't open it" is ignorant. If it were that simple, then there would be no rule against posting AC crap in the SP because people could simply not read it, right? But in reality, the SP gets so clogged up with this crap that sifting through the B.S. topics become laborious and the SP loses its value.Disagree, and clearly a number of other people do as well. If you have a problem with it though and want to assign motives without evidence, just don't post here then. Go to another thread. Pretty simple, IMO.
It is sad that people are sticking up for this worthless thread, because the fact that the guy went so far as to add that we're talking about PPR specifically makes the trade advice intent even more obvious. He's clearly not just having an NFL discussion here on two players. This is a league specific topic which makes it apparent to any semi-intelligent reader that we're looking at a "should I make this trade" thread.
With that being said, it would have been nice to have had some more info leading into the discussion other than a one-liner.But again, I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt because if nothing else, we all know that had the OP NOT said "PPR", the very first response would have been "PPR or standard scoring league, dude?" because it would make for a very different discussion depending on which format since it is Harvin.
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