Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points... (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.

Manning really threw the ball amazing last night. He threw into some tiny windows even with the ball 30+ yards in the air. It was an odd game where the QB (and receivers) executed a great plan incredibly well against a defense that was ready for them.

I know that Reche Caldwell and Harrison combined for 3 easy drops, but the game play was excellent. Very Good defense was beaten by excellent offense.

Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Manning really threw the ball amazing last night. He threw into some tiny windows even with the ball 30+ yards in the air.

He played the game at the very highest level. It was remarkable.

 

[parasaurolophus]

no.

I dont think the Pats played really well at all. I wouldnt say they played 38 points bad, but they did not play well at all. Sure they got good pressure on Manning, but that is not all there is to defense. If you leave everybody in single coverage, you should be able to get good pressure on the QB. Manning just hung in there and took the hits, but he knew that people would be open. On the colts last scoring drive, you knew dungy was gonna run and they couldnt stop him. They gave up way too many long drives that ended in TDs.

It is a much better argument to make that the Colts defense played very well giving up 34 points.

Take 7 off right away. Then look at the Field position they were put in all game and I would say they played well. Take away some 4th down conversions and they would have played great.

 

[Sam Quentin]

The Pats D stunk.

They were playing tired. They were fighting the flu. Seymour got banged up early.

Assante Samuel and Hobbs (thanks for reminding me out JetsWillWin) had a great game, but other than that, they pretty much got

 

[Sam Quentin]

I would say that the Colts D stink as well.

They did a good job of containing the run b the second half, but they left too many guys wide open, and came within a Reche Caldwell of giving up even more points.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I don't know if it's *ever* happened like the title asks, but if it did, it was not last night. The Patriot defense was bad bad. There was a time in the second half in which every single play the Colts ran was good for 8-9 yards. Dominic Rhodes would get a hand off, and he'd somehow just slide for 8 yards. Nobody would touch him. The safety plays was terrible, Richard Seymour got OWNED most of the night, and whoever was responsible for covering Dallas Clark took a nap.

The only defensive highlight in this game in the second halfwas the play by Hobbs and Samuel - they both played extremely well and shutdown Manning's main weapons.

 

[H.K.]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am reminded of the Redskin/Packer tilt on Monday Night from the 80's. Both teams scored in the 40's. many remember it as an amazing offensive game. I thought it was a game with outstanding defense. If anyone remembers watching the game both defenses costantly had the other offense in third and long having backed them up on first and second down. The third downs were converted, and the scores came about on incredible third down plays against very tight defense. In short the defenses were outstanding, the offense just more so.

 

[redman]

I am reminded of the Redskin/Packer tilt on Monday Night from the 80's. Both teams scored in the 40's. many remember it as an amazing offensive game. I thought it was a game with outstanding defense. If anyone remembers watching the game both defenses costantly had the other offense in third and long having backed them up on first and second down. The third downs were converted, and the scores came about on incredible third down plays against very tight defense. In short the defenses were outstanding, the offense just more so.

That was week 7, 1983. Green Bay won 48-47 over the Redskins team that I believe was the best ever (despite losing to the Raiders in the Super Bowl). I wasn't able to watch that game, but the score speaks for itself. Here's a Washington Post write-up.

ESPN write-up.

 

[Redmen62]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Manning really threw the ball amazing last night. He threw into some tiny windows even with the ball 30+ yards in the air. It was an odd game where the QB (and receivers) executed a great plan incredibly well against a defense that was ready for them.I know that Reche Caldwell and Harrison combined for 3 easy drops, but the game play was excellent. Very Good defense was beaten by excellent offense.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Texas Longhorns in last year's Rose Bowl.Best example I can think of.

 

[kevinray]

The steelers once lost 24-6 to the texans while only allowing 47 net total yards of offence. 37 rushing 10 passing. That was probably the most painful game I've ever had to watch because that defense played so well and the offense put up 422 yards and they got beaten down.

 

[Liquid Tension]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

 

[H.K.]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

You are 100% correct.470 yards and 38 points against defines an outstanding defensive effort.Now start a thread saying the Pats special teams cost them the game, and I'll agree with that, as well.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I am reminded of the Redskin/Packer tilt on Monday Night from the 80's. Both teams scored in the 40's. many remember it as an amazing offensive game. I thought it was a game with outstanding defense. If anyone remembers watching the game both defenses costantly had the other offense in third and long having backed them up on first and second down. The third downs were converted, and the scores came about on incredible third down plays against very tight defense. In short the defenses were outstanding, the offense just more so.

That was week 7, 1983. Green Bay won 48-47 over the Redskins team that I believe was the best ever (despite losing to the Raiders in the Super Bowl). I wasn't able to watch that game, but the score speaks for itself. Here's a Washington Post write-up.

ESPN write-up.

Good stuff. One of my favorite games was a 7-3 game with the Giants losing to SF on a John Taylor TD catch that was threaded between two Giants that dove form opposite ends of the field. Every play was hotly contested that if the throws were not perfect, they would get knocked down. Back to the game last night. When your two corners play as well as they did it is hard to say the defense was BAD. Even Ray Mickens had a knockdown. I was impressed with the quality of the game and I usually like lower scoring games.

 

[parasaurolophus]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

Do I necessarily blame the players for the bad defense? Certainly not all of it. But if your D-backs and LBs are constantly in one on one coverage, they are going to be able to get beat. It was just too easy sometimes. Then when they needed to stop 3 straight running plays that EVERYBODY knew were coming, they couldnt do it. No way can I give this defense credit. The Colts first 2 scoring drives even summed up this game. 14 plays and 15 plays. That wears out a defense. TOP can be a misleading stat. If a team comes out and runs the ball three straight times, they will automatically burn a few minutes. We saw this in the CAR/ATL game earlier this year. 15 plays and 3 minutes wears down a defense much more than 8 plays and 6 minutes of clock time does.

 

[Liquid Tension]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

Do I necessarily blame the players for the bad defense? Certainly not all of it. But if your D-backs and LBs are constantly in one on one coverage, they are going to be able to get beat. It was just too easy sometimes. Then when they needed to stop 3 straight running plays that EVERYBODY knew were coming, they couldnt do it. No way can I give this defense credit. The Colts first 2 scoring drives even summed up this game. 14 plays and 15 plays. That wears out a defense. TOP can be a misleading stat. If a team comes out and runs the ball three straight times, they will automatically burn a few minutes. We saw this in the CAR/ATL game earlier this year. 15 plays and 3 minutes wears down a defense much more than 8 plays and 6 minutes of clock time does.

Only the 1st play was a guaranteed run. After that anything could happen. NE had to respect the pass as Manning was so sharp. I mean on the two pointer the defense was good but Manning dropped the ball into the one open area.You are correct about long drives. But that was part of the defense which was that they would make Manning be perfect going down the field and they were counting on his messing up one one or 2 of those 30 plays, but he and the team didn't. Usually a pick or a sack and fumble or something would happen, but Indy executed extremely well.

 

[Liquid Tension]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

You are 100% correct.470 yards and 38 points against defines an outstanding defensive effort.Now start a thread saying the Pats special teams cost them the game, and I'll agree with that, as well.

It is brilliant analysis/perspective like yours that reminds me that there are so many guppies still swimming here.

 

[H.K.]

It is brilliant analysis/perspective like yours that reminds me that there are so many guppies still swimming here.

Why the venom? I was agreeing with your brilliance. Losing time of posession, giving up 470 yards of offense, having 38 points scored against and blowing the largest lead in AFCC history are meaningless factors in analyzing a defense that knocked down a few passes and put sporadic pressure on the QB. Again, you are right. The Patriots defense was incredible. You really need to learn how to take a compliment better.

 

[parasaurolophus]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

Do I necessarily blame the players for the bad defense? Certainly not all of it. But if your D-backs and LBs are constantly in one on one coverage, they are going to be able to get beat. It was just too easy sometimes. Then when they needed to stop 3 straight running plays that EVERYBODY knew were coming, they couldnt do it. No way can I give this defense credit. The Colts first 2 scoring drives even summed up this game. 14 plays and 15 plays. That wears out a defense. TOP can be a misleading stat. If a team comes out and runs the ball three straight times, they will automatically burn a few minutes. We saw this in the CAR/ATL game earlier this year. 15 plays and 3 minutes wears down a defense much more than 8 plays and 6 minutes of clock time does.

Only the 1st play was a guaranteed run. After that anything could happen. NE had to respect the pass as Manning was so sharp. I mean on the two pointer the defense was good but Manning dropped the ball into the one open area.You are correct about long drives. But that was part of the defense which was that they would make Manning be perfect going down the field and they were counting on his messing up one one or 2 of those 30 plays, but he and the team didn't. Usually a pick or a sack and fumble or something would happen, but Indy executed extremely well.

I know i am not a football genius, but i knew there was no way in hell dungy wasnt going to run the ball. Do you really think he would have passed? No way. The Colts did what they wanted in that second half. They scored 32 points and ran up and down the field. I think you are allowing yourself to be swayed by the stats they kept posting about how many times manning was being hurried. Sure they knocked him around a lot, but hitting the QB isnt all there is to playing defense. The colts wrs were frequently behind the defense. Even on one of the first drives of the game, addai smoked Bruschi up the field, but couldnt come up with the ball. I know it looks like just amazing offense(which dont get me wrong, a lot of it was) but if a TE is being covered by a LB 25 yards up the field, he is probably running behind him. WIth no safety help, it doesnt take too much to get the ball to him. Just because Manning was knocked down after the play, doesnt mean it was great defense.Manning was 27 of 47. Its not like he completed every pass and had flawless execution. I will admit that the coaching and the offense let this defense down, but their lack of stopping the colts in key situations, fatigue, and giving up so many successful plays was just as big of a part.

 

[Liquid Tension]

NE was able to put a lot of pressure on Manning. They played just mediocre against the run, but were not bad. The DB's and linebackers had very good coverage all night long; they actually knocked away about as many passes in one game as I can remember. They even took a pick to the house.Like the title says, Has there ever been a defense that allowed 38 points, who played really well?

The Pats defense stunk. There isn't a dress on the planet that will make that pig look pretty.They didn't just give up 38 points, they also gave up ~350 passing and 125 rushing, and lost the TOP battle. In American football, this is what we refer to as a "poor performance".The Patriots generated one turnover and scored off it, other than that, the Patriots did very little on defense. Even though nobody else will admit it, the Patriots were able to bat down balls early on because Manning was not always putting the ball in the right spot or releasing it before the DB could recover. As soon as he got into a rhythm in the second half, he made the throws and the Pats got rolled up like a burrito.

HK, you were watching a different game than I did and I watched it 3 times. This is a very similar discussion in baseball when INCORRECTLY, people say good pitching shuts down good hitting. The truth is that many times good pitching does shut down good hitting if the hitting is poor. Sometimes good pitching gets hit by good hitting, when it is good hitting. Similarly, sometimes poor pitching comes off as good pitching when the hitters hit poorly. Bottom line is why is a low scoring game in pitching because the pitching was good all the time? Couldn't it be poor hitting as well? Anybody who has ever played baseball knows that you have some good AB's and get good swings and you have some real bad ones as well.There is also a saying in football that if the offense executes perfectly, the defense probably can't do anything about it. Yesterday, if you really watched the game from a neutral perspective, NE had dynamite coverage most of the game. yes, I think they did tire out, but that was from guys catching balls where NE had very good coverage or there were some amazing throws.It is hard to say that NE played great defense when they allowed so many points, but if they didn't run into an offense that executed so amazingly well yesterday, people would be talking about how well NE played defensively. This was a time where the offense played great, not the defense playing bad.Just some more persopective...when "your" RB is breaking tackles and making great moves and chewing up yardage, "you" say, wow he is looking great, has awesome moves and the ability to break tackles. On the other side the person says, "we can't tackle anyone what terrible tackling." Well what is it, bad tackling or LT running?Get some perspective folks, this was amazing offense yesterday, not a bad defense.

Do I necessarily blame the players for the bad defense? Certainly not all of it. But if your D-backs and LBs are constantly in one on one coverage, they are going to be able to get beat. It was just too easy sometimes. Then when they needed to stop 3 straight running plays that EVERYBODY knew were coming, they couldnt do it. No way can I give this defense credit. The Colts first 2 scoring drives even summed up this game. 14 plays and 15 plays. That wears out a defense. TOP can be a misleading stat. If a team comes out and runs the ball three straight times, they will automatically burn a few minutes. We saw this in the CAR/ATL game earlier this year. 15 plays and 3 minutes wears down a defense much more than 8 plays and 6 minutes of clock time does.

Only the 1st play was a guaranteed run. After that anything could happen. NE had to respect the pass as Manning was so sharp. I mean on the two pointer the defense was good but Manning dropped the ball into the one open area.You are correct about long drives. But that was part of the defense which was that they would make Manning be perfect going down the field and they were counting on his messing up one one or 2 of those 30 plays, but he and the team didn't. Usually a pick or a sack and fumble or something would happen, but Indy executed extremely well.

I know i am not a football genius, but i knew there was no way in hell dungy wasnt going to run the ball. Do you really think he would have passed? No way. The Colts did what they wanted in that second half. They scored 32 points and ran up and down the field. I think you are allowing yourself to be swayed by the stats they kept posting about how many times manning was being hurried. Sure they knocked him around a lot, but hitting the QB isnt all there is to playing defense. The colts wrs were frequently behind the defense. Even on one of the first drives of the game, addai smoked Bruschi up the field, but couldnt come up with the ball. I know it looks like just amazing offense(which dont get me wrong, a lot of it was) but if a TE is being covered by a LB 25 yards up the field, he is probably running behind him. WIth no safety help, it doesnt take too much to get the ball to him. Just because Manning was knocked down after the play, doesnt mean it was great defense.Manning was 27 of 47. Its not like he completed every pass and had flawless execution. I will admit that the coaching and the offense let this defense down, but their lack of stopping the colts in key situations, fatigue, and giving up so many successful plays was just as big of a part.

You were obviously correct about the runs.In terms of great defense, I am not saying there weren't plays where guy got open, but I will say that when ALL QB's take a lot of hits and are always under pressure, they play worse. usually that results in some bad throws and sometimes some picks. Considering the pressure Manning was under (more than Brady) and the overall good coverage by NE, Manning threw great. Yes he had a lot of incompletions and that was mostly because of great defense. My main point still stands. I have never seen a defense play this well and allow 38 points.

 

[Bri]

The Pats D played well in the first half, possibly the best half against that Colts explosive O in years. The second half was horrific though.

 

[Slum Lord]

No. There were no special teams/Defensive TD's. It was all earned.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Pats D played well in the first half, possibly the best half against that Colts explosive O in years. The second half was horrific though.

Look the points say so, but looking beyond the points, how many great passes did it take? I watched the game 3 times and even in the 2nd half NE would make two good plays and then allow an excellent throw that makes you say, "what can you do." There were so many "what can you do." plays that I don't think they played that poorly.Maybe I should modify the topic to say that never in the history of football did a team allow 32 point in a half and the defense not play bad?

 

[Bri]

The Pats D played well in the first half, possibly the best half against that Colts explosive O in years. The second half was horrific though.

Look the points say so, but looking beyond the points, how many great passes did it take? I watched the game 3 times and even in the 2nd half NE would make two good plays and then allow an excellent throw that makes you say, "what can you do." There were so many "what can you do." plays that I don't think they played that poorly.Maybe I should modify the topic to say that never in the history of football did a team allow 32 point in a half and the defense not play bad?

Re your two plays and all.For me, much of defense is about 3rd down. They might get as many as 9 yards in the previous two but if you're stout on 3rd down....see ya Offense.In fact much of the San Diego game was about 3rd down as Tomlinson did plenty on 1st and 2nd most posessions.

 

[Bri]

As I said in another thread, that substitution of Eric Alexander was horrible. He stunk against the run and that should have been a "heads up" but BB left him there so Vrabel could replace Colvin outside. Well, a liability is a liability, pull him! go 4-3, I don't care. Fletcher owned him and that catch really hurt. Yeah fine he's Saban's boy from LSU but let him develop in another game not at that moment. I've only seen him play ST and make a couple tackles against the Titans when backups were in.

Weis' boy Corey Mays looked pretty good the little I saw him this year. I wouldn't have wanted him in there either.

If 4-3 won't fly, then put 90 year old Izzo in to stop the run. That vet knows how to play and is a sure tackler even if he's a bit slow. And have a safety cover their TE.

Was Troy Brown not available to play DB and cover him?

Kudos to Peyton for seeing that mismatch but geesh was it obvious and.....still can't believe that sub.

I don't see the Fletcher long catch online but at 2:13 here

http://mirror.colts.com/video/selectmediaw...21300&nfl=1

he is totally taken out and Addai or Rhodes walks in to the endzone. I mean cmon, he was "right there"

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Honestly I don't see how anyone who claims to understand the game of football can think the Patriots' defense was miserable last night.

They had more pass deflections than I've seen in a long time. Any time where Peyton didn't squeeze the ball into the tiniest window perfectly while hitting his WR in stride they didn't complete the pass. If the Colt WR had to so much as reach out a foot for the ball there was a Patriot able to stick his hand in there and jar it loose.

When a team has the vertical threats that Indy has it's nearly impossible to cover those deep outs and underthrown (backshoulder on a line) streaks that Indy runs on perfect timing. NE did an admirable job knocking a few of those down and even picking one off, there's just no way to keep covering all that when a team as talented as Indy is as on as they were.

The Colts scored a lot because they ran a ton of plays. Once they got up 21-3 the Patriots couldn't get a long drive going to keep the Indy offense off the field.

Starting just before the end of the 1st half we had:

Indy gets the ball at end of 1st half

Indy gets the ball to start the 2nd half

NE goes 3 and out

Indy gets the ball

NE has 5 play drive

Indy gets the ball

NE goes 3 and out

Indy gets the ball

NE has 6 play drive

Indy gets the ball

NE has 4 play drive

Indy gets the ball

NE goes 3 and out

Indy gets the ball

NE has 4 play drive

So we had Indy getting the ball twice in a row due to the half, and then NE coming out with drives of 3, 5, 3, 6, 4, 3, and 4 plays to finish out the game. From that point at the end of the first half NE had 7 possessions and ran only 28 plays.....4 plays per possession. They longest they held the ball in game time from that point was 2 and a half minutes, and that was only on one of the drives with all the other drives lasting well under 2 minutes and most under a minute.

The NE offense dodges the blame only because they got a couple big kick returns that made it look like they were still effective when in reality they couldn't sustain a drive to keep Indy off the field when that always been the way to beat the Colts.

 

[AB in DC]

It's pretty simple.

The defense was very, very good in the first half. And they only gave up 6 points.

The defense was poor in the second half. That's when they gave up 32 points.

Don't know how you can state it any other way.

 

[Steeler]

They had more pass deflections than I've seen in a long time. Any time where Peyton didn't squeeze the ball into the tiniest window perfectly while hitting his WR in stride they didn't complete the pass. If the Colt WR had to so much as reach out a foot for the ball there was a Patriot able to stick his hand in there and jar it loose.

The Pats DBs played did make a few good plays; but to extrapolate that the entire defense played well due to a handfull of pass deflection is quite a reach. Overall, the coverage wasn't very good.... apparently you didn't notice how wide open Clark and Fletcher were on a few key plays late in the game.In theory, a defense could play well and give up that many points, but I don't think NE's coverage was as good as you claim it was.