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Has there ever been a QB like Vince Young before? (1 Viewer)

Csonka4life

Footballguy
What I really meant one that really ran first and passed second that was this coveted by the NFL? I seem to recall all other QB's of this mold being projects or were converted to a speed postion. I remember Denver having a running QB in the 70's who played for Misissippi(he was caucasian)who spelled Craig Morton who had a similar style to Young but he was a mid round draft choice. Kordell was a similar.........

 
What I really meant one that really ran first and passed second that was this coveted by the NFL? I seem to recall all other QB's of this mold being projects or were converted to a speed postion. I remember Denver having a running QB in the 70's who played for Misissippi(he was caucasian)who spelled Craig Morton who had a similar style to Young but he was a mid round draft choice. Kordell was a similar.........
What makes you assume that he prefers to do this, rather than this being the best way for his college offense to operate?Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate. He can throw on the NFL level.

 
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........

 
Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate. He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
 
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
I agree, but at the same time, what incentive does a QB have to throw when he was arguably the most dominant runner in the NCAA last season? His objective was to win games, not put up passing stats for the Texas offense.
 
Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate.  He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
I agree with the throwing mechanics issue, but of power, accuracy and position, i think position is easiest to correct from a coaching standpoint.
 
Here is what www.FootballTimes.org Draft Guru had to say about him:

5. Vince Young: Simply too much ability, savvy, competitiveness, leadership and potential to ignore. He’s won and excelled at every level. He carried his Texas team to heights it would have never reached. Young will star in the NFL because he’s a star. A 6’5” giant with the grace and balance of a point guard. NFL Comparison: None. Some are going back to Randall Cunningham. Young is a more confident leader.

Enjoy

 
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I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
You must not have been paying attention when you watched them games.
 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach. No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.

 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach. No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
Might be the best comparison to date.
Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate. He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
I agree with the throwing mechanics issue, but of power, accuracy and position, i think position is easiest to correct from a coaching standpoint.
Agreed, but it makes you wonder if he'd lose some the the accuracy or power by messing up his mechanics.I know they aren't pretty, but he's been successful with it, are we certain that he needs to change his delivery to be succesful in the NFL, or is it possible that changing will screw with his head?

I'd like to hear about successful college QBs (this successful) who have had their mechanics significantly changed and been better for it. Tweaking is fine, a total overhaul may not be.

 
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
This is is only accurate if you are talking about Vince Young's college career as a whole. This is not accurate for this last season after he had developed as a passer. Of those games you saw, how many were last season? Seriously. Other than USC and OkState, he was pass first all year.He threw for over 3,000 yards and ran for just over 1,000. He threw 26 TD passes and had 12 rushing TD's (3 of which were in the title game). He led the nation in passing efficiency rating.

Those aren't the passing numbers of a run-first QB. Those are the numbers of a dual-threat QB who can beat you with his arm or his legs. That's why he's so hard to defend. Just ask Pete Carroll.

 
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
Not so sure about this. Va Tech was running an option offense when Vick was there.
 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach.  No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
I agree, that may be the best comparison I've seen as well. Vince is really hard to classify as I have never seen another QB quite like him. I'll say this, he's a much more balanced player and more accurate passer coming out of college than Vick was. Vick is the only run first type guy I recall off-hand that was highly coveted at QB by the NFL.

Unfortunately for Vince, given Vick's struggles, I think people's tendency to want to compare him to Vick is hurting him. But Vince is taller, stronger, and more accurate throwing the ball than Vick, so I think he can be more successful than Vick has been so far. Plus, I don't recall Vick's exact numbers his last year of college, but they do not come anywhere close to Vince's numbers last season. Not close at all.

 
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so lets see if I have this straight...

there's a group of people who think that Vince Young is a one of a kind talent the likes of which the NFL has never seen and a sure fire super star

there's a second group that thinks he's a glorrified Vick and he won't be able to throw in the NFL

and there are a lot of people in the middle who think he has all the skills but who understand there are no sure things.

hmmm

I'm not sure it is settled. Perhaps one of the next 200 Vince Young threads with no new information will get all of us in the same group.

 
Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate.  He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
I don't get this sidearm argument. Let's see here...Phillip Rivers has a goofy sidearm action and had a stellar college career and is now a highly sought player in fantasy and possibly the NFL as well. Didn't Flutie have a sidearm delivery? Oh and I seem to remember people saying Bernie Kosar had a sidearm throw. I think it's just silly. Is there any statistic that shows sidearm throwers have more passes batted down than traditional passers?* edit *

Rich Gannon had a sidearm throw as well.

 
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Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate.  He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
:goodposting: IMO, he's got bust written all over him. At least there's Canada or NFLE...

everyone wants to point to the Rose Bowl game as his coming out party, but the USC defense was porous last year, they let Fresno State put over 40 pts on the board, while ND put 31 on them..and for the love of god, if Carroll just let Reggie Bush run the ball at 4th and 1 late in the 4th Quarter, we're not talking about Vince Young, we're talking about the USC dynasty and their 3rd straight national championship..even if they punt there, USC wins..not enough time left to go the length of the field..they barely had enough time to score from their own 45 after that 4th and 1..

anyways, I thnk people are putting too much stock from that one game, in Vince Young..

4.5 speed kills, especially when you get hit by the equally fast Brian Urlacher..

Injuries seem to get the best of every single scrambling QB lately, Steve Young, McNair, Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, etc..

 
I don't get this sidearm argument. Let's see here...Phillip Rivers has a goofy sidearm action and had a stellar college career and is now a highly sought player in fantasy and possibly the NFL as well. Didn't Flutie have a sidearm delivery? Oh and I seem to remember people saying Bernie Kosar had a sidearm throw. I think it's just silly. Is there any statistic that shows sidearm throwers have more passes batted down than traditional passers?
I don't think the issue is balls being batted down as much as the arc of the throw. Side arm throwers naturally will have more of an arc if the release point is lower.
 
Hes definitely got a great arm, and is accurate.  He can throw on the NFL level.
He's got a strong arm and is fairly accurate. But, he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
:goodposting: IMO, he's got bust written all over him. At least there's Canada or NFLE...

everyone wants to point to the Rose Bowl game as his coming out party, but the USC defense was porous last year, they let Fresno State put over 40 pts on the board, while ND put 31 on them..and for the love of god, if Carroll just let Reggie Bush run the ball at 4th and 1 late in the 4th Quarter, we're not talking about Vince Young, we're talking about the USC dynasty and their 3rd straight national championship..even if they punt there, USC wins..not enough time left to go the length of the field..they barely had enough time to score from their own 45 after that 4th and 1..

anyways, I thnk people are putting too much stock from that one game, in Vince Young..

4.5 speed kills, especially when you get hit by the equally fast Brian Urlacher..

Injuries seem to get the best of every single scrambling QB lately, Steve Young, McNair, Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, etc..
"everyone" may say that's his coming out party, but that everyone would not include Texas fans or anyone whose seen him play over the last two seasons. For those people, it was same ol, same ol for Vince in the title game. He's done that many times before against Michigan, Ohio state, Kansas, Ok State twice, etc. So while that may have been his coming out party on a national level, it really wasn't a surprise to anyone that has followed him closely, and it certainly isn't a situation where one game is all that his hype is or should be based on.
 
so lets see if I have this straight...

there's a group of people who think that Vince Young is a one of a kind talent the likes of which the NFL has never seen and a sure fire super star

there's a second group that thinks he's a glorrified Vick and he won't be able to throw in the NFL

and there are a lot of people in the middle who think he has all the skills but who understand there are no sure things.
That about sums it up.
 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach.  No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
I agree, that may be the best comparison I've seen as well. Vince is really hard to classify as I have never seen another QB quite like him. I'll say this, he's a much more balanced player and more accurate passer coming out of college than Vick was. Vick is the only run first type guy I recall off-hand that was highly coveted at QB by the NFL.

Unfortunately for Vince, given Vick's struggles, I think people's tendency to want to compare him to Vick is hurting him. But Vince is taller, stronger, and more accurate throwing the ball than Vick, so I think he can be more successful than Vick has been so far. Plus, I don't recall Vick's exact numbers his last year of college, but they do not come anywhere close to Vince's numbers last season. Not close at all.
I found Michael Vick's 2000 stats at Va Tech:104 rushes

617 yards

87 completions

161 attempts

1234 yards

8 tds

6 ints

He really did not throw the ball a whole lot.

Link

 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach.  No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
I agree, that may be the best comparison I've seen as well. Vince is really hard to classify as I have never seen another QB quite like him. I'll say this, he's a much more balanced player and more accurate passer coming out of college than Vick was. Vick is the only run first type guy I recall off-hand that was highly coveted at QB by the NFL.

Unfortunately for Vince, given Vick's struggles, I think people's tendency to want to compare him to Vick is hurting him. But Vince is taller, stronger, and more accurate throwing the ball than Vick, so I think he can be more successful than Vick has been so far. Plus, I don't recall Vick's exact numbers his last year of college, but they do not come anywhere close to Vince's numbers last season. Not close at all.
I found Michael Vick's 2000 stats at Va Tech:104 rushes

617 yards

87 completions

161 attempts

1234 yards

8 tds

6 ints

He really did not throw the ball a whole lot.

Link
Vick = :X
 
What I really meant one that really ran first and passed second that was this coveted by the NFL? I seem to recall all other QB's of this mold being projects or were converted to a speed postion. I remember Denver having a running QB in the 70's who played for Misissippi(he was caucasian)who spelled Craig Morton who had a similar style to Young but he was a mid round draft choice. Kordell was a similar.........
Bobby Douglas, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick.
 
I get kind of surprised when people discuss things like Young's arm strength or mechanics as being his biggest question marks. I think there are probably plenty of QBs who have done fine in the NFL with equal or less arm strength. Tom Brady and Chad Pennington (before injury) are two good examples.

To me the bigger questions are whether a QB can read a defense, make good decisions, and get rid of the ball quickly. A guy who can do that and has a lesser arm is still probably going to outperform a guy with a cannon who can't identify the guy with the best matchup on him.

And that's the part that I think teams should have some concern about Young, compared to other QBs. I would love to see some Texas games again so I could pay more attention to these things. As is, I really don't recall him having to manage an offense in the way an NFL QB is going to be expected to. I don't know if he can take a snap from under center, do a play action fake with his back to the defense, and turn around and find the open receiver quickly. I don't know if he can read defenses and audible to something better. Maybe he did this frequently and it isn't a concern, but it doesn't stand out in my mind.

That's the one big plus that Leinart has in my eyes. I can recall feeling that he was a decision-maker while at the line, playing in a much more pro-style of offense than Texas runs. I can recall a lot of discussion during games about different changes he'd made at the line.

 
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
I saw every game that Young played at UT and you either didn't watch many games this last season or you were actually sleeping while the TV was on. Did he run first sometimes? Sure he did, on a few occassions the other teams tried to shut down his passing and he torched them running. When they decided to stop him from running he torched them passing. The point being that he took what he was given and the stats indicate that he took the passing option alot more than running and he did it effectively. Young threw for 3036 yards and 26 TDs this last season, he ran for 1050 and 12 TDs. And he finished the season 3rd in passing efficiency.*Maybe* you can make a case for Vick staying in the pocket more (I didn't really watch Vick a lot in college) but I would love to hear a decent argument for Vick being a more effective passer.

 
Has there ever been a QB like Vince Young before?
No.
What I really meant one that really ran first and passed second that was this coveted by the NFL?
How does one throw for 3000+ yards and go 3rd in the nation in Pass Efficiency while "running first"?
I saw numerous games and he ran first and passed second. I'm not talking out of my ###, on this one. Even Vick stayed in the pocket more than Young........
This is is only accurate if you are talking about Vince Young's college career as a whole. This is not accurate for this last season after he had developed as a passer. Of those games you saw, how many were last season? Seriously. Other than USC and OkState, he was pass first all year.He threw for over 3,000 yards and ran for just over 1,000. He threw 26 TD passes and had 12 rushing TD's (3 of which were in the title game). He led the nation in passing efficiency rating. Those aren't the passing numbers of a run-first QB. Those are the numbers of a dual-threat QB who can beat you with his arm or his legs. That's why he's so hard to defend. Just ask Pete Carroll.
Really? You aren't talking outta your ###? The second poster quoted got it right. Sorry, the numbers don't bear your assertion out:In 7 of 12 games prior to the Rose Bowl, Young had 10 or fewer carries. He had 11 in one and 13 in another. On the high end, he had 17, 20, and 21. He and Texas OC Greg Davis simply took what opposing Ds were giving Texas, and it worked all year. The Rose Bowl was a perfect example. SC showed they'd drop Bing into cover 2, and Texas took the underneath passes, esp to the TE Thomas, and ran all night with V. Young, S. Young, and Charles. If Bing had played up, they'd have gone with IM and deep passes, just as they had all year. Simple. Just like I predicted on this board. PC was clearly hoping to get a better pass rush and hope Young would throw into the cover 2, creating picks. The pass rush was stifled all night, he didn't bite, he made the right reads, and it didn't work. Reminder: Texas ran the ball 36 times aginst SC, but they still threw it 40 more. Remember? Sure ya do.
 
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I seem to recall all other QB's of this mold being projects or were converted to a speed postion. I remember Denver having a running QB in the 70's who played for Misissippi(he was caucasian)who spelled Craig Morton who had a similar style to Young but he was a mid round draft choice. Kordell was a similar.........
Bad comparisons.
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach. No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
Yes. It's hard to categorize him, but I've said all along he's most like Cunningham and Staubach. Cunningham for style. Staubach for toughness, leadership, comeback ability, but also ability to see and anticipate everything and run in such a controlled way.
he's got serious issues with his throwing mechanics (sidearm delivery being one) that could prove to be a huge problem at the NFL level. We'll see but my expectations aren't as high as some.
From the Houston Chronicle:'(Young's new QB coach Jerry) Rhome laughed when he was asked if he would try to change Young's unorthodox throwing motion.

"I don't want to change anything about his release," Rhome said. "You don't want to try to fix something that's not broken. Vince has a strong arm, and the ball gets from point A to point B in a hurry and on target."'

5. Vince Young: Simply too much ability, savvy, competitiveness, leadership and potential to ignore. He’s won and excelled at every level. He carried his Texas team to heights it would have never reached. Young will star in the NFL because he’s a star. A 6’5” giant with the grace and balance of a point guard. NFL Comparison: None. Some are going back to Randall Cunningham. Young is a more confident leader.
Spot on.Go ahead and doubt him. He'll make you pay in the long run.

Unfortunately for Vince, given Vick's struggles, I think people's tendency to want to compare him to Vick is hurting him. But Vince is taller, stronger, and more accurate throwing the ball than Vick, so I think he can be more successful than Vick has been so far. Plus, I don't recall Vick's exact numbers his last year of college, but they do not come anywhere close to Vince's numbers last season. Not close at all.
People's tendency to compare him to Vick is unfortunate and just shows ignorance, imho, as they're really not similar in style.His size advantage over Vick, and many other QBs, is also a huge factor and cannot be underestimated.

everyone wants to point to the Rose Bowl game as his coming out party, but the USC defense was porous last year...anyways, I thnk people are putting too much stock from that one game, in Vince Young..
Anyone who thinks that was Vince Young's coming out party hasn't been paying attention.
Yes: Andre Ware
You're joking...right? Young would run circles around Ware and throw just as well. Ware's not nearly as big, and slow as Christmas in comparison.
Andre Ware, Doug Williams, Randell C.
LMAO.So...he's like three QBs who were nothing alike...except that they were black. :rolleyes:

 
I get kind of surprised when people discuss things like Young's arm strength or mechanics as being his biggest question marks. I think there are probably plenty of QBs who have done fine in the NFL with equal or less arm strength. Tom Brady and Chad Pennington (before injury) are two good examples.

To me the bigger questions are whether a QB can read a defense, make good decisions, and get rid of the ball quickly. A guy who can do that and has a lesser arm is still probably going to outperform a guy with a cannon who can't identify the guy with the best matchup on him.

And that's the part that I think teams should have some concern about Young, compared to other QBs. I would love to see some Texas games again so I could pay more attention to these things. As is, I really don't recall him having to manage an offense in the way an NFL QB is going to be expected to. I don't know if he can take a snap from under center, do a play action fake with his back to the defense, and turn around and find the open receiver quickly. I don't know if he can read defenses and audible to something better. Maybe he did this frequently and it isn't a concern, but it doesn't stand out in my mind.

That's the one big plus that Leinart has in my eyes. I can recall feeling that he was a decision-maker while at the line, playing in a much more pro-style of offense than Texas runs. I can recall a lot of discussion during games about different changes he'd made at the line.
This is a good analysis of things VY will have to adjust to in the NFL. I think VY got to the point that he read defenses pretty well. Well enough that people on this board and others would say things like "he can't throw into tight spaces, his WR's at Texas were always wide open, etc." I can assure you Texas WR's were not always wide open, but VY was very good this year at reading the defense and finding the open guy on most plays.The other thing that helps VY is that his decision making may not have to be quite as fast because teams will be reluctant to rush him all out because that tends to open up running lanes. While he may only get 5-10 yards in the NFL where he'd have gotten 15-20 in college, he can still move the chains.

Adjusting to being under center will be a big factor for him. And I don't think he made a ton of audibles at Texas. On the other hand, Texas designed a lot of plays that gave him the option to run or pass depending on the defense, or to run himself or hand off depending on the defense, and he excelled at those. So I think he'll be able to read defenses fine once he adjusts to the NFL. But it will be an adjustment for him.

 
Yes: Andre Ware
Probably the Worst comparison to date.I guess there's 3 similarities - the state they played, the position, oh, and he's black. Totally different player.

 
McNabb in my mind is the closest comparison. A real running threat in college but questions about whether he could survive as a passing QB at the next level.

The debate between Leinart and Young is similar to the one regarding McNabb and Couch. Does a team go with the traditional drop back passer, or the more athletic QB that can make plays with his feet if things break down but is not yet as polished of a passer.

 
I get kind of surprised when people discuss things like Young's arm strength or mechanics as being his biggest question marks. I think there are probably plenty of QBs who have done fine in the NFL with equal or less arm strength. Tom Brady and Chad Pennington (before injury) are two good examples.

To me the bigger questions are whether a QB can read a defense, make good decisions, and get rid of the ball quickly. A guy who can do that and has a lesser arm is still probably going to outperform a guy with a cannon who can't identify the guy with the best matchup on him.

And that's the part that I think teams should have some concern about Young, compared to other QBs. I would love to see some Texas games again so I could pay more attention to these things. As is, I really don't recall him having to manage an offense in the way an NFL QB is going to be expected to. I don't know if he can take a snap from under center, do a play action fake with his back to the defense, and turn around and find the open receiver quickly. I don't know if he can read defenses and audible to something better. Maybe he did this frequently and it isn't a concern, but it doesn't stand out in my mind.

That's the one big plus that Leinart has in my eyes. I can recall feeling that he was a decision-maker while at the line, playing in a much more pro-style of offense than Texas runs. I can recall a lot of discussion during games about different changes he'd made at the line.
:goodposting: I was just going to post something like this. Has anyone evaluated his ability to learn the game at the pro level. Learn to pick up defensive schemes, learn a playbook that may be much more complicated that his college plays, etc? How fast can he get up the curve?
 
McNabb in my mind is the closest comparison. A real running threat in college but questions about whether he could survive as a passing QB at the next level.

The debate between Leinart and Young is similar to the one regarding McNabb and Couch. Does a team go with the traditional drop back passer, or the more athletic QB that can make plays with his feet if things break down but is not yet as polished of a passer.
:no: McNabb was a four year starter at 'Cuse and threw the ball a TON. I'm a Young fan but don't think McNabb and Young are comparable at this point. Remember Andy Reid drafted McNabb because he saw Brett Favre in him, and believed he could master his complex version of the WCO. Young has talents that McNabb doesn't, but in terms of their throwing prowess, maturation and mechanics coming out of school? :no:

 
McNabb in my mind is the closest comparison.  A real running threat in college but questions about whether he could survive as a passing QB at the next level.

The debate between Leinart and Young is similar to the one regarding McNabb and Couch.  Does a team go with the traditional drop back passer, or the more athletic QB that can make plays with his feet if things break down but is not yet as polished of a passer.
:no: McNabb was a four year starter at 'Cuse and threw the ball a TON. I'm a Young fan but don't think McNabb and Young are comparable at this point. Remember Andy Reid drafted McNabb because he saw Brett Favre in him, and believed he could master his complex version of the WCO. Young has talents that McNabb doesn't, but in terms of their throwing prowess, maturation and mechanics coming out of school? :no:
:goodposting: They are both black, and they both can run. Thats the end of the similarities.

 
McNabb in my mind is the closest comparison. A real running threat in college but questions about whether he could survive as a passing QB at the next level.

The debate between Leinart and Young is similar to the one regarding McNabb and Couch. Does a team go with the traditional drop back passer, or the more athletic QB that can make plays with his feet if things break down but is not yet as polished of a passer.
:no: McNabb was a four year starter at 'Cuse and threw the ball a TON. I'm a Young fan but don't think McNabb and Young are comparable at this point. Remember Andy Reid drafted McNabb because he saw Brett Favre in him, and believed he could master his complex version of the WCO. Young has talents that McNabb doesn't, but in terms of their throwing prowess, maturation and mechanics coming out of school? :no:
:goodposting: They are both black, and they both can run. Thats the end of the similarities.
Yeah and Young does not get tired at the end of Championship games. :P
 
He's Randall Cunningham part 2.
Surprised this isn't more obvious to people since there's really no one else that really compares in terms of height and speed at QB.
 
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Given all the Vince threads, I thought you guys might enjoy this article from a Texas homer. Biased? Sure. But you won't find any Texas fans that will argue with him, we've been amazed by Vince for too many years to doubt him now.

Sean Adams

Orangebloods.com

Some players get invited, some players do not. Those that do not get invited take it as a slap in the face even though they should not. The same test, save for some of the psychological test, will be administered on most major college campuses around the country on their version of pro days.

The premise behind the combine is the following …With as much money that is being invested into athletes these days, spending more money up front to get as much information as possible can only be a good thing. It is good to see athletes who play in different conferences and at different levels compete in a battery of tests, so the NFL teams can see comparisons that would be "apple to apple."

With the draft being an education crap shoot, much like a higher priced high school recruiting, there are many flaws in the system.

With all that said, it begs the question; "Is the combine all that is it made up to be?" Rich McKay, general manager of the Atlanta Falcons was on ESPN the other day and remarked that too much emphasis was placed on the physical testing and the whole combine in general. Besides being uncomfortable for some of the players whose goal to just play football, the whole concept is a proven inexact science.

The player that might make a perfect example that the combine and much of the testing done are pointless is Texas quarterback Vince Young. Sticking with tradition, his stock was as high as it could be coming off of the spectacular Rose Bowl victory over USC to win the National Championship. Soon after the Rose Bowl, his stock started making a small but steady decent. By the time the draft comes around, I really would not be surprised to see Vince Young fall from the top five and closer to the number 10 in draft order.

His release is too low. On the field, all he does is win.

He can't run like that in the NFL. On the field, he led the nation in passing efficiency.

He is not used to being in a pro offense where he has to be under center. On the field, he did whatever he wanted to and whatever he was asked to do and did it well.

So why all the fuss about Vince's numbers? He is clearly one of the best players to ever play at the college level.

The problem with Vince is that he's an unknown commodity. Anybody that thinks they can measure his star is crazy to suggest that. Anybody who thinks that Vince Young is a generational and transcendent player, as I do, must be stuck in Burnt Orange land. That is where the problem lies: Vince is immeasurable and he is going to the NFL where everything is measured.

The combine is a whiting suitor for the mind that seeks the measurable. The NFL has determined what a throwing motion looks like. The NFL has determined what a professional offense looks like. The NFL has determined what an NFL quarterback looks like. For some reason or another, in some teams' minds, Vince does not fit the bill for them. That is the coaches' and general managers' role to do that and it sounds much like Nick Saban, when at LSU, recruiting a high school Vince Young to play wide receiver because he's not a quarterback. Some teams will make that same determination. And to their detriment, I might add.

While I really like Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler, we could, in 10 years, be writing about Cutler being the next Sam Bowie (chosen before Michael Jordan).

Vince, as we all know and admire, loves to set the record straight and prove the doubter wrong. I toast his efforts and will follow him as he changes the position of quarterback at the NFL level. Much to the chagrin of the combine.

 
For an abilities comparison I think Randall Cunningham is closest and for a leadership comparison I would say Roger Staubach. No lead was safe against the Cowboys when Roger was at qb.
:thumbup:
 
While I really like Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler, we could, in 10 years, be writing about Cutler being the next Sam Bowie (chosen before Michael Jordan).
Why Cutler and not Leinart?We'll could easily be calling Young the next Bowie, which is more applicable since he will probably be taken before Cutler.
 
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For some reason or another, in some teams' minds, Vince does not fit the bill for them. That is the coaches' and general managers' role to do that and it sounds much like Nick Saban, when at LSU, recruiting a high school Vince Young to play wide receiver because he's not a quarterback.
Yeah Nick...not a QB.LOL.Vince was only qb enough to go 30-2 as a starter, winning his last 20, culminating in a National Championship.I'll take that, and I'm sure he would, too.
 
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FWIW...here's what Gary Kubiak is saying at the combine:

houston chronicle

The Texans will continue their long week of interviewing players today with their first meeting with quarterback Vince Young. The Texans have interviewed a number of players this week, including tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson, quarterback Matt Leinart and running back Reggie Bush.

Texans coach Gary Kubiak has talked to a number of Young's former teammates at Texas and said he looks forward to talking with Young.

"He's a tremendous athlete, and as coaches in this league, you look for guys who can bail you out, so to speak," Kubiak said. "When you're wrong as a coach, you want a guy who can step to the plate for his team and keep moving the chains. Vince is an extremely gifted young man.

"The plays he can make off schedule are probably second to none. He's also a very bright young man, good young man, a leader.

"The job he did at Texas and the way he led that group tells you that he'll do it again. He'll have a great career."
 

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