notapplicable
Footballguy
Not very familiar with Defensive tackles in IDP leagues but who are your top ten players for THIS year when it comes to IDP defensive tackles?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Have to start DT's (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter notapplicable
- Start date
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Without turning this into an AC thread since it's a very good general topic, the standard "scoring system matters" disclaimer applies.
Because so many teams rotate their defensive tackles, it's hard to reliably project DTs. I tend to put these guys into tiers in no particular order for the most part.
Two way tackle, sack/big play potential
Cory Redding
John Henderson
Vonnie Holliday
Kevin Carter
Warren Sapp (risky)
Solid, but not sexy all-around players
Kelly Gregg
Kevin Williams (capable of first group production)
Brian Young
Fred Robbins
Barry Cofield
Vince Wilfork
Marcus Tubbs
Nice 2007 upside
Darnell Dockett (could stay designated as DT but get some 3-4 DE snaps)
John McCargo (should get a lot of snaps as Buffalo's 3-tech)
Domata Peko (now starting; 21 tackles and 3 sacks in limited time last year)
Turk McBride (will get DE snaps early, then 3-tech after)
Adam Carriker (unless he gets mostly NT snaps)
Careful of the hype
Tommie Harris (nice run of sacks, but not really a boxscore guy)
Tommy Kelly (late word has him rotating more than previously expected)
Could be good if healthy
Rod Coleman (watch Babineaux if he isn't)
Marcus Stroud
Cornelius Griffin
Then there's everyone else. I lean toward 3-technique tackles here and guys who project to get the most snaps.
If I were drafting, I'd try to get one of the top tier other than Sapp, one of the steady players and one of the guys with upside or health concerns.
Because so many teams rotate their defensive tackles, it's hard to reliably project DTs. I tend to put these guys into tiers in no particular order for the most part.
Two way tackle, sack/big play potential
Cory Redding
John Henderson
Vonnie Holliday
Kevin Carter
Warren Sapp (risky)
Solid, but not sexy all-around players
Kelly Gregg
Kevin Williams (capable of first group production)
Brian Young
Fred Robbins
Barry Cofield
Vince Wilfork
Marcus Tubbs
Nice 2007 upside
Darnell Dockett (could stay designated as DT but get some 3-4 DE snaps)
John McCargo (should get a lot of snaps as Buffalo's 3-tech)
Domata Peko (now starting; 21 tackles and 3 sacks in limited time last year)
Turk McBride (will get DE snaps early, then 3-tech after)
Adam Carriker (unless he gets mostly NT snaps)
Careful of the hype
Tommie Harris (nice run of sacks, but not really a boxscore guy)
Tommy Kelly (late word has him rotating more than previously expected)
Could be good if healthy
Rod Coleman (watch Babineaux if he isn't)
Marcus Stroud
Cornelius Griffin
Then there's everyone else. I lean toward 3-technique tackles here and guys who project to get the most snaps.
If I were drafting, I'd try to get one of the top tier other than Sapp, one of the steady players and one of the guys with upside or health concerns.
Last edited by a moderator:
notapplicable
Footballguy
Thanks for the input man, greatly appreciated.
notapplicable
Footballguy
I know this is a draft question, but where would you guys take a DT if you have to start two of them... I've got all positions filled besides one CB and one LB... We start 4 LB's... We have to start 2 DT's, btw... Standard scoring cats.
-OZ-
Footballguy
DTs and CBs are positions I wait on, and wait, and wait.Then, if I'm strong enough elsewhere, I'll acquire good ones, but this is only in dynasty leagues where I've either been very good, or very lucky.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
DTs score much less than any other position, so there is really no reason to draft one until late.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
In most seasons I liken it to the TE position on the offensive side. You can pay for a consensus top DT (Williams, Henderson, Coleman in prior years and Redding this year) or you can identify a top player who'll probably slide (Holliday last year, maybe a Kevin Carter or Peko or the like this year).
HitStick31
Footballguy
How does a guy like Justin Harrell or Rodrique Wright or Claude Wroten stack up for future value? Im in a must start (2) DTs dynasty 28 round draft and i can get these guys in the last round or 2. Reports i was hearing is Wright has been a beast but i know he is stuck on the depth chart.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Rod Wright would be in another category -- "Big Potential for 2008". I recommended both he and Wroten last season as players to watch for 2007. In the meantime, Holliday was re-signed in Miami. That hurts Wright's value a bit. There's also a small chance the Dolphins will be switching schemes -- they've got an old defense and Capers may or may not be safe long term. Wright's big upside is dependent on him remaining a 3-tech tackle and getting 50 plus snaps a game. He's halfway there right now.Wroten's issue is that he's got off-field issues yet again -- arrested earlier in July -- and he may have to contend with Carriker, who I think is a better fit at UT than NT despite the current Ram plans.
Harrell? I don't know about Harrell. He has to prove himself healthy and NFL ready. The Packers aren't a strict UT/NT team, so he'll have to be very good (think John Henderson) to put up top numbers.
Wright and Harrell are clearly worth watching, though. Listen for Wroten updates, but he's unlikely to be relevant given his current status.
BringItOn
Footballguy
Jene- What are your thoughts on Tommie Harris with the signing of Darwin Walker? Seems like Harris did very well at the beginning of the season with that nice string of sacks, then his production waned considerably until he got hurt. I would think having a guy like Walker out there will help Harris quite a lot..
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
It's possible. The Bears, like the Colts, haven't really ever had a true NT in that role. They've tried to put a slightly bigger guy who can also penetrate so the change from Johnson to Walker could be an upgrade. Whether it opens things up for Harris is hard to say. I think it's probably more important for Harris to have Ogunleye play well.I share your concerns about Harris. He went from a guy who was apparently considering retirement last offseason to a guy who put up a string of nice games against some questionable interior OL (DET, SEA, ARI). I think he's still a very nice matchup player, but his lack of tackle production will seriously hurt him if he can't get to the quarterback more consistently.
pretender
Footballguy
so how did all these guys do this past year. In one of my leagues which has manditory DT
1. 79. Dockett, Darnell ARI DT
2. 86. Haye, Jovan TBB DT Where did this guy come from
3. 97. Gregg, Kelly BAL DT
4. 138. Patterson, Mike PHI DT
5. 180. Rogers, Shaun DET DT a couple of huge games due to big plays inflates his numbers
6. 192. Smith, Shaun CLE DT
7. 195. Williams, Pat MIN DT
8. 208. Ngata, Haloti BAL DT another bust out
9. 245. Robertson, Dewayne NYJ DT
10. 247. Harris, Tommie CHI DT top 10
11. 251. Babineaux, Jonathan ATL DT - right on Jene - with Coleman out he produced
12. 252. Williams, Kevin MIN DT - much better than he had been playing
13. 270. Williams, Corey GBP DT
14. 272. Brown, Tony TEN DT
15. 276. Haynesworth, Albert TEN DT
16. 302. Sapp, Warren FA DT was risky but still produced numbers
17. 305. Robbins, Fred NYG DT top 20
18. 311. Glover, La' roi STL DT
19. 324. Thomas, Hollis NOS DT
20. 340. Wilfork, Vince NEP DT top 20
21. 358. Peko, Domata CIN DT not quite as high as projected
22. 400. Hovan, Chris TBB DT
23. 409. Kemoeatu, Ma'ake CAR DT
24. 422. Holliday, Vonnie MIA DT even being hurt played respectable
25. 439. Okoye, Amobi HOU DT ® not bad for a rook
26. 442. Montgomery, Anthony WAS DT
27. 446. Edwards, Dwan BAL DT
28. 460. Henderson, John JAC DT would have expected more out of this guy.
29. 463. Bernard, Robert SEA DT
30. 465. Traylor, Keith MIA DT
So who will continue to play well? Who are 1 year wonders. Who's scheme might change and add or drop value. Who was injured that might kick someone off this list (example R Coleman/J Babaneaux) Sapp - retirement? Will the rookies of this last year that didn't produce such as Turk McBride get a chance. Which rookies coming up in the draft might be the next Okoye. As more leagues are forming that seperate DT and DE - I think these sorts of discussions are of value. At least to me they are.
Thoughts, comments - homer information?
Dirty Hairy
Footballguy
I waited till later in the draft for my DT's this past year. I was tickled when I picked up Corey Redding and Tommy Kelly late, thinking these were both steals. Then I got Hollis Thomas and Babineaux (and later Coleman) as backup.
Very humbling experience as I seemed to struggle all year to get good production from this position. Redding disappeared to #43 after being #8 in 2006; Kelly went IR after six games; Thomas was benched, so I dropped him, only to see another owner benefit from him regainging his starting position and scoring well; and Coleman never returned to levels achieved in prior years.
Meanwhile the top ten has Haye and Smith; who?
Very humbling experience as I seemed to struggle all year to get good production from this position. Redding disappeared to #43 after being #8 in 2006; Kelly went IR after six games; Thomas was benched, so I dropped him, only to see another owner benefit from him regainging his starting position and scoring well; and Coleman never returned to levels achieved in prior years.
Meanwhile the top ten has Haye and Smith; who?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
The 2007 rank list above is kind of deceiving (i.e. #9 Dewayne Robertson (36 solos, 4 sacks) / #17 Fred Robbins (32 solos, 5.5 sacks)), but a good jumping off point.
That top tier looks pretty
today. Hopefully, I've learned enough to produce some better rankings (DT and across the board) this year. Trying to decide which is the real Mike Patterson, Haloti Ngata, Jovan Haye and Tony Brown will be interesting. Will Dockett still be classified as a DT? Probably. Will Shaun Smith get as many snaps at DE? Probably not. Still a lot to be settled before the draft, but looking forward to putting together my first set of rankings in March.
That top tier looks pretty
today. Hopefully, I've learned enough to produce some better rankings (DT and across the board) this year. Trying to decide which is the real Mike Patterson, Haloti Ngata, Jovan Haye and Tony Brown will be interesting. Will Dockett still be classified as a DT? Probably. Will Shaun Smith get as many snaps at DE? Probably not. Still a lot to be settled before the draft, but looking forward to putting together my first set of rankings in March.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Early word out of Cleveland is that they would like Smith to take mainly NT snaps in 08. What they do in the offseason and the health of next season's DE's will decide whether this comes to fruition or not.
pretender
Footballguy
I certainly wasn't trying to downgrade your rankings Jene.The 2007 rank list above is kind of deceiving (i.e. #9 Dewayne Robertson (36 solos, 4 sacks) / #17 Fred Robbins (32 solos, 5.5 sacks)), but a good jumping off point.That top tier looks prettytoday. Hopefully, I've learned enough to produce some better rankings (DT and across the board) this year. Trying to decide which is the real Mike Patterson, Haloti Ngata, Jovan Haye and Tony Brown will be interesting. Will Dockett still be classified as a DT? Probably. Will Shaun Smith get as many snaps at DE? Probably not. Still a lot to be settled before the draft, but looking forward to putting together my first set of rankings in March.
I couldn't put out a set of rankings to save my soul. I was just interested in starting some conversation regarding the DT position. Is it as much of a crap shoot as I'm beginning to think? With so many scheme changes and changing of defensive coordinators and line coachss and head coaches it seems there a certainly a whole lot to consider when trying to rank these guys. Some come in really green A Francis in Detroit. We still aren't sure what he is capable of. Some rookies jump right in there. Some get a chance when someone goes down to injury. It seems to affect defense more than offense at times. Is the lesson to learn that DL in general will always be up and down and the few that put up consistant numbers the exception rather than the rule. Seems like teams shuffle around D Lineman much more than offensive skill players. One year a DT - the next a DE hybrid. A LB/DE hybrid. You have great stuff about where to look for defensive gems due to the advantages and or disadvantages of scheme and personnel packages but luck also seems to play a good part. Talent doesn't always win the starting job. Are you better to go with the high talent players and hope the cream rises to the top? I ws hoping to see if any on this list in other IDP minds will stay on the list and will perform how we hope and to generate some offseason discussion for those all important offseason waivers. 
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I didn't feel you were knocking me by bumping that post. If I'm going to argue that projecting IDPs is not a crapshoot, I better be able to do better than that.Luck and injury play a role, but there's always room for improvement. The next Fun With Stats post is going to look at consistency scores by position -- and DTs are the worst of the bunch. It's a position with a lot of turnover and a lot of rotation. Hopefully, there'll be something other than "look for teams that play under fronts" and "lean toward talent and upside" to aid with the ranking process.I certainly wasn't trying to downgrade your rankings Jene.The 2007 rank list above is kind of deceiving (i.e. #9 Dewayne Robertson (36 solos, 4 sacks) / #17 Fred Robbins (32 solos, 5.5 sacks)), but a good jumping off point.That top tier looks prettyI couldn't put out a set of rankings to save my soul. I was just interested in starting some conversation regarding the DT position. Is it as much of a crap shoot as I'm beginning to think?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Unless we've got a homer that knows differently, I think it's pretty up in the air. They used a lot of 3-4 on base downs, even with a guy like Joe Tafoya in a two point stance, but it may be difficult to continue that depending on the health of Okeafor and Berry and whether they re-sign Pace.If he's listed at DT when you transition him, are you stuck if they move him?
