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Hawk = BOD (1 Viewer)

T

trader jake

Guest
you're better than that lhucks

is that it? otherwise...

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LHUCKS

Footballguy
Katzenmoyer wasn't a top-5 pick.

Is that really your only argument here?

pretty weak.
Hawk shouldn't be a top 5 pick, so that argument is moot. Katz went in the first round...and busted. Just like Hawk is about to do.
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Katzenmoyer wasn't a top-5 pick.

Is that really your only argument here?

pretty weak.
Hawk shouldn't be a top 5 pick, so that argument is moot. Katz went in the first round...and busted. Just like Hawk is about to do.
awesome analysis. please let me know which other Big 10 players you hate for no reason. :thumbup:

 

WhoDat

Footballguy
See any of their test scores directed at general IQ.

One of the draft magazines had an article on this very topic. I cannot recall which one. They did some digging, as stat and draftniks are prone to do from time to time, and found some interesting dynamics between a LB; his overall intelligence and sustained success at the NFL level.

Katzenmoyer could not count to 21 if he was naked.

 
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Voice Of Reason

Footballguy
I'd agree that Hawk is very overrated and will likely not play to the level a first round pick should play to.

He is very stiff in the way he moves and that'll really catch up with him at the pro level, especially for an outside backer. However, I really like his teammate, Bobby Carpenter, as I see him as being the opposite of AJ. I see Carpenter being the better pro than Hawk.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
since I'm willing to give LHUCKS the benefit of the doubt here, maybe he'll be kind enough to answer a few questions for us:

#1 Where do you think AJ Hawk should be drafted?

#2 What are some of the main reasons you think he'll fail to live up to expectations?

#3 Which linebacker(s) in this draft are better than him?

Thanks very much in advance. Look forward to reading your objective, well thought out, and informed responses.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Tell me this. If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.
I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.
I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.
:lmao: apart from Bush, Hawk is the safest pick in this draft.

also, you didn't answer any of my questions.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Tell me this.  If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
a small school LB going top 5? doubtful. concerns about strength of competition would likely hold him back. has absolutely nothing to do with his color though...not sure why you even want to bring race into this discussion.Hawk is a phenomenal athlete, who was immensely productive while playing on one of the best defenses in the country. He also has impeccable character and work ethic and never missed a single practice or game while at Ohio State.

Seriously...what's not to like? He's a much better prospect than Katzenmoyer was.

 
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DeCleater

Footballguy
Tell me this. If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
Hawk didn't go to a small school like Marshall he went to OHIO ST. He played against top level talent and no one could keep him away from the football. He has elite measurables and I don't think stop watches care if your black or white.
 
T

trader jake

Guest
lhucks: ***official*** racebaiter of FBG's :thumbup:

seriously, is this shtick of late?

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.
I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.
:lmao: apart from Bush, Hawk is the safest pick in this draft.

also, you didn't answer any of my questions.
:blackdot: ...and I didn't answer your questions because I don't reply to condescending tones. ;)

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
Tell me this. If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
a small school LB going top 5? doubtful. concerns about strength of competition would likely hold him back. has absolutely nothing to do with his color though...not sure why you even want to bring race into this discussion.Hawk is a phenomenal athlete, who was immensely productive while playing on one of the best defenses in the country. He also has impeccable character and work ethic and never missed a single practice or game while at Ohio State.

Seriously...what's not to like? He's a much better prospect than Katzenmoyer was.
Wasn't Katzenmoyer a pretty solid prospect?Obviously whatever Katzenmoyer did in the NFL has no relation to what Hawk is going to do in the NFL (see e.g., Ki-Jana Carter and Larry Johnson), but I always remembered Katzenmoyer in his junior or senior year being hyped as the next stud LB.

Hawk seems like a :lock: to be solid though.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.
I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.
:lmao: apart from Bush, Hawk is the safest pick in this draft.

also, you didn't answer any of my questions.
:blackdot: ...and I didn't answer your questions because I don't reply to condescending tones. ;)
:fishing: this entire thread is condescending. :potkettle:

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Tell me this.  If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
Hawk didn't go to a small school like Marshall he went to OHIO ST. He played against top level talent and no one could keep him away from the football. He has elite measurables and I don't think stop watches care if your black or white.
:lmao: This just in...the Big 10 sucks.

 
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LHUCKS

Footballguy
If hawk went to ANY Pac-10 school, would he be drafted top 5?

:popcorn:
Do they have LBs in the Pac-10?
Bruschi happened to go to my alma mater...and has been busy winning SuperBowls and leading arguably the best defensive team in the NFL of this decade.Next Question.

 
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Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
What are his major flaws?

What do you think about his consistent production and his top play against teams like Texas and Notre Dame?

Please explain the similarity ro Katzenmoyer, who left early, had a lack of intelligence and lacked great leadership skills. Compared to Hawk who played all four years, is extremly bright, watches film regularly and who took on a great leadership role and also embraced the leadership of one Anthony Schlegel.

 

DeCleater

Footballguy
Tell me this.  If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
Hawk didn't go to a small school like Marshall he went to OHIO ST. He played against top level talent and no one could keep him away from the football. He has elite measurables and I don't think stop watches care if your black or white.
:lmao: This just in...the Big 10 sucks.
Somebody run over your dog tonight or is it your time of the month.
 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
I'd agree that Hawk is very overrated and will likely not play to the level a first round pick should play to.

He is very stiff in the way he moves and that'll really catch up with him at the pro level, especially for an outside backer. However, I really like his teammate, Bobby Carpenter, as I see him as being the opposite of AJ. I see Carpenter being the better pro than Hawk.
:goodposting: Are there any other non Big10 homer, non-Great White Hype sheep in the house?

 

Slider

Footballguy
Katzenmoyer could not count to 21 if he was naked.
:lmao: Anyway more to the thread, Bush and Leinart have a 1st rd pick at RT, a 2nd and 4th rd pick at G and a C that will be an early pick next year. Plus a TE that will go early. They play a pro system with pro coaches. I wouldn't expect them to be as good when pros are on the other side.

 

WhoDat

Footballguy
Bruschi played with a hand in the dirt while at ASU, did he not?

Wasn't Katzenmoyer a pretty solid prospect?
Yes but he had documented anger management (maturity) issues and was known to have not been blessed with much in terms of intelligence. Little more to playing LB than see; read; hit and repeat.
 
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Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Wasn't Katzenmoyer a pretty solid prospect?

Obviously whatever Katzenmoyer did in the NFL has no relation to what Hawk is going to do in the NFL (see e.g., Ki-Jana Carter and Larry Johnson), but I always remembered Katzenmoyer in his junior or senior year being hyped as the next stud LB.

Hawk seems like a :lock: to be solid though.
Katzenmoyer was an awesome prospect , but he wasn't the athlete Hawk is and does not compare in terms of intelligence, instincts, and character. He also had a very disappointing junior season, which dropped him to the end of round 1.He had a pretty solid rookie campaign with 63 solos, 3.5 sacks, and an INT, but his football career was ended by a serious neck injury.

good article about the questions that surrounded him before the 1999 NFL draft here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...223/ai_54245993

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Somebody run over your dog tonight or is it your time of the month.
Just calling it like I see it...I'm not insulting anyone here and I'm not being condescending here either. You're asking the wrong person.It's mazing how you can't criticize a player on this board without being accused of having "your time of the month." :thumbdown:

 

Bob_Magaw

Footballguy
hawk is the real deal...

imo, ernie sims & d'qwell jackson are LBs in this class with best shot to out-produce, this season and in future (contingent of course on opportunity, where they land)...

if you could get odds on hawk being a bust, they would be pretty long... & i still don't think i would want them...

i did think aaron's questions are legit... when you offer a carnival funhouse mirror take on a serious prospect, it can't come completely as a surprise when you are asked to support the contrarian position?

 
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Aaronur

Footballguy
I'd agree that Hawk is very overrated and will likely not play to the level a first round pick should play to.

He is very stiff in the way he moves and that'll really catch up with him at the pro level, especially for an outside backer.  However, I really like his teammate, Bobby Carpenter, as I see him as being the opposite of AJ.  I see Carpenter being the better pro than Hawk.
:goodposting: Are there any other non Big10 homer, non-Great White Hype sheep in the house?
To the Big 10 sucks thing, Ohio St. played better against Texas than USC did. Their D kept Mr. Young in check Hawk played great.To the Teddy B being a great LB, did he play DE in college, of course he went to your school so you should know, so their still aren't any linebackers in the Pac 10.

The only reason the Pac 10 isn't overrated is because everyone already knows they suck. USC is a great team they beat the pants off of everyone and they played but they weren't the best team in the Nation.

Lastly Katz got injured which was pointed out and he actually played well before that happend so really saying he is the next Katz(meaning a bad linebacker) is a bad argument because Katz wasn't bad he just had to retire.

 

ILoveMyLions

Footballguy
Tell me this. If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
Hawk didn't go to a small school like Marshall he went to OHIO ST. He played against top level talent and no one could keep him away from the football. He has elite measurables and I don't think stop watches care if your black or white.
:lmao: This just in...the Big 10 sucks.
I guess you missed the Texas game and the Notre Dame game as well. Hawk lived up to the bill in those game from what I can remember. He stuffs the run, moves sideline to sideline and blitz well. Look, I hate the Buckeyes, but you gotta give the guy his props as he's been one of the top LBs in the country on one of the best defenses in the country the last two years.
 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
this entire thread is condescending. :potkettle:
huh??
please back up your statement with something other than "the Big 10 sucks". That shtick is so played and really has no business in the Shark Pool.
I can't start a Hawk is overrated thread now??Are the two of you related or have you been pimping Hawk in your IDP rankings?

What do I need to know here?

 
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Chase Stuart

Footballguy
this entire thread is condescending. :potkettle:
huh??
please back up your statement with something other than "the Big 10 sucks". That shtick is so played and really has no business in the Shark Pool.
I can't start a Hawk is overrated thread now??Are the two of you related or have you been pimping Hawk in your IDP rankings?

What do I need to know here?
You can't piss in the Shark Pool. You know that.
 

Aaronur

Footballguy
Somebody run over your dog tonight or is it your time of the month.
Just calling it like I see it...I'm not insulting anyone here and I'm not being condescending here either. You're asking the wrong person.It's mazing how you can't criticize a player on this board without being accused of having "your time of the month." :thumbdown:
you didn't criticize you said, he is a bust see Katz.Katz was a bust because of injury, there is no real comparison between them other than they are white and went to OSU. Bobby Carpenter is white and went to OSU why can't he be Katz at least he has an injury history.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Tell me this.  If Hawk was a black LB from Marshall would be he be getting picked in the top 5?

I might need to make this a poll.
Hawk didn't go to a small school like Marshall he went to OHIO ST. He played against top level talent and no one could keep him away from the football. He has elite measurables and I don't think stop watches care if your black or white.
:lmao: This just in...the Big 10 sucks.
I guess you missed the Texas game and the Notre Dame game as well. Hawk lived up to the bill in those game from what I can remember. He stuffs the run, moves sideline to sideline and blitz well. Look, I hate the Buckeyes, but you gotta give the guy his props as he's been one of the top LBs in the country on one of the best defenses in the country the last two years.
For my money he looked very average in those games which is partially why I think he should go in the late first/early second.I don't view him as the impact player that everybody else seems to.

Bush/Leinar/Davis...these guys are impact players. Hawk is a solid starter, who may never see a Pro Bowl.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
I can't start a Hawk is overrated thread now??
please list even a single reason why you think that.also, why do you think Katzenmoyer is a better comparison for Hawk than someone like Chris Spielman?
 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
this entire thread is condescending. :potkettle:
huh??
please back up your statement with something other than "the Big 10 sucks". That shtick is so played and really has no business in the Shark Pool.
I can't start a Hawk is overrated thread now??Are the two of you related or have you been pimping Hawk in your IDP rankings?

What do I need to know here?
You can't piss in the Shark Pool. You know that.
I'm criticizing a player here...where am I pissing? Please clarify with specific quotes.
 

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
:fishy:

This is precisely the garbage that I hoped that I would not be seeing anymore after moving from a different board. It'd be one thing if there was some analysis to backup a statement that every expert disagrees with, but this is clearly just trolling.

Watching Hawk makes me think of Brian Urlacher, and not because they're both white. They're both smart players that identify plays right away. They both have tremendous sideline to sideline speed. They both seem to be involved in just about every play. They both are intense. They both have good technique.

I'd be very surprised if Hawk does not end up as a Pro-Bowler soon.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
I can't start a Hawk is overrated thread now??
please list even a single reason why you think that.also, why do you think Katzenmoyer is a better comparison for Hawk than someone like Chris Spielman?
See above post.Additonally, I think Katz is a good comparison because I think he was hyped for many of the same reasons Hawk is getting hyped...Hawk is the great white hype from "The Ohio State University"(which hasn't done **** in quite some time now)

I'm not buying the hype. I'm basing my decision on what I've seen from Hawk against non-Big 10 teams, in other words teams like Texas that actually have an elment of NFL caliber speed.

The Big10 doesn't have that element of NFL speed that the SEC/Pac10/Big12 do.

 
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Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
maybe LHUCKS can tell us what he disagrees with in these reports:

Strengths:

Incredibly instinctive with top football intelligence...Always around the ball...Makes plays sideline-to-sideline and has good range...Has more than enough speed and closes fast...Is a sure tackler...Very solid in coverage against backs and tight ends...Does an excellent job of shedding blockers and working his way through traffic...Extremely productive...Team leader and captain...Works as hard as anyone...Intense, competitive and tough player with off the chart intangibles.

Weaknesses:

Might not be quite as athletic as his computer numbers would lead you to believe...Is on the short side...Does not change direction real well...Has some trouble taking on massive blockers, especially in the run game...Can improve as a blitzer...Missed a good portion of his senior year of high school due to injury.

Notes:

Simply the best defensive player in college football as a senior...May have been the first linebacker selected in the 2005 NFL Draft had he come out early...Has the makings of an impact playmaking linebacker at the pro level...Top Prospect.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...olb/ajhawk.html
1. A.J. Hawk, Ohio State (6-1, 248; 4.63)

He had a complete workout at the Combine. He ran two 40s in 4.59 and 4.66 seconds. He also ran the short shuttle in 3.96 and the three-cone drill in 6.82. In addition, he had a 40-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-7 broad jump and 24 bench presses. In high school, he played linebacker and punted. He also was the point guard on the basketball team. At Ohio State, he played as a true freshman in 2002; he started against Penn State and intercepted a pass on the game's first possession. He started 36 games in the past three years and had seven interceptions. To be a great linebacker, you need to have outstanding instincts, be a great competitor, be able to get off blocks, drop into coverage, and be a good tackler. Hawk has them all, plus outstanding character. This is a very intense player with great work habits. He did not miss a practice or game at Ohio State. He's only 6-1, but Hall of Fame linebacker Mike Singletary was under 6-feet.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/lb
April 20, 2006) -- With A.J. Hawk, the word "extra" never comes before the word "effort" because all of his effort is extra. In Hawk's world, there aren't enough weights to lift or enough opponents' videotape to study or enough time to spend on the practice field. He can't hit hard enough, run fast enough, or be smart enough in a game.

Hawk is the consummate overachiever, the consummate team player, the poster child for sheer passion and love of football.

Oh, yes, and the former Ohio State standout also happens to be a highly talented linebacker. And when you combine great talent with great attitude, you have the makings of a likely top-five choice in this year's draft.

For those reasons, Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage recently described Hawk as the draft's "safest pick." Given the considerable uncertainty of how the first round will shake out, particularly in the top half, that is a tremendous compliment.

"This guy's a playmaker," said Browns coach Romeo Crennel, who helped build the defenses that allowed the New England Patriots to win three Super Bowls. "He runs all over the place, and he runs to the ball. He's got some size (6-foot-1 and 248 pounds), some speed, some production. I like all of those things."

As long as the Browns keep the 12th overall pick, though, they are likely to continue to admire Hawk in another team's uniform after the draft.

But that is the sort of enthusiasm he generates from most coaches and personnel evaluators around the NFL. Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese went so far as to gush that if you were to compile a wish list of 10 qualities you would want in a linebacker, Hawk would have all 10.

Here's a sampling: Speed, athleticism, instincts, hustle, sideline-to-sideline playmaking, aggressiveness at the point of attack, explosiveness, closing speed on blitzes, pass-coverage skills, and use of hands to separate from blockers. He is versatile enough to play outside in a 4-3 alignment (where most scouts believe he would be the most effective) or inside in a 3-4.

And, of course, there is that sterling attitude. When a reporter asked if he intended to work out at February's Scouting Combine at Indianapolis, Hawk seemed almost taken aback that the question would even be raised.

"Of course," he said. "I'm coming here to do everything. I'm going to compete and do every drill I can."

As usual, most of the other highly rated players chose to save their workouts for the Pro Days on their respective college campuses and/or individual sessions with NFL teams. Hawk not only worked out at the Combine, but he performed well enough to maintain his perch atop what looks to be the deepest position in the draft and one of the best linebacker crops the draft has ever seen. The group includes other potential first-rounders in Manny Lawson of North Carolina State (where he played defensive end), DeMeco Ryans of Alabama, Chad Greenway of Iowa, Ernie Sims of Florida State, Thomas Howard of Texas-El Paso, and Bobby Carpenter, Hawk's fellow outside linebacker at Ohio State.

Hawk and Carpenter join a long line of outstanding Buckeye linebackers. Hawk often is compared to Chris Spielman, who went on from Ohio State to have a long and successful career in the NFL. As a radio and television sports analyst in Columbus, Ohio, Spielman spends plenty of time around the OSU campus and visits frequently with Hawk.

"He has a lot of good advice," Hawk said. "He keeps you grounded and lets you know that regardless of what happens in Columbus, don't ever get too upset about what someone says to you or don't get too excited because it's so up and down.

"(He says), 'If you have a bad game and someone's cutting you down, don't get down on yourself. If you have a great game, don't listen to them. Don't let your head get big because of it.'

"He's done a great job of that."

Hawk has, too.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9387664this dude is way more Spielman than Katzenmoyer.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
:fishy:  

This is precisely the garbage that I hoped that I would not be seeing anymore after moving from a different board.  It'd be one thing if there was some analysis to backup a statement that every expert disagrees with, but this is clearly just trolling.
I can't make an observation and wait for other opinions before giving my own?What the hell is wrong with everybody? I said a top 5 player is going to be a bust and all of a sudden I'm pissing in the shark pool??

I think I'm done here today.

Good day gents.

 
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