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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

About Varys

Why does he essentially tell Ned stark that Jon aryn was killed by ser hugh at the behest of the lannisters when he has to know that isn't true? And why was Hugh then killed when in actuality he had nothing to do with the murder? Did he know of the incest?Why were Varys and illario plotting below the red keep that Ned should die as the last hand did? Especially being that they didn't have anything to do with aryn's death apparently. Wouldn't Ned's death under strange circumstances bring about an early war as well prior to drogo/dany or aegon being ready?
 
About Varys

Why does he essentially tell Ned stark that Jon aryn was killed by ser hugh at the behest of the lannisters when he has to know that isn't true? And why was Hugh then killed when in actuality he had nothing to do with the murder? Did he know of the incest?Why were Varys and illario plotting below the red keep that Ned should die as the last hand did? Especially being that they didn't have anything to do with aryn's death apparently. Wouldn't Ned's death under strange circumstances bring about an early war as well prior to drogo/dany or aegon being ready?
You have some of your facts wrong and I would hate to correct them because I don't want to spoil stuff.
 
About Varys

Why does he essentially tell Ned stark that Jon aryn was killed by ser hugh at the behest of the lannisters when he has to know that isn't true? And why was Hugh then killed when in actuality he had nothing to do with the murder? Did he know of the incest?Why were Varys and illario plotting below the red keep that Ned should die as the last hand did? Especially being that they didn't have anything to do with aryn's death apparently. Wouldn't Ned's death under strange circumstances bring about an early war as well prior to drogo/dany or aegon being ready?
You have some of your facts wrong and I would hate to correct them because I don't want to spoil stuff.How so? I have read all the books. My questions were prompted by the episode "the lion and the wolf" though.
 
About Varys

Why does he essentially tell Ned stark that Jon aryn was killed by ser hugh at the behest of the lannisters when he has to know that isn't true? And why was Hugh then killed when in actuality he had nothing to do with the murder? Did he know of the incest?Why were Varys and illario plotting below the red keep that Ned should die as the last hand did? Especially being that they didn't have anything to do with aryn's death apparently. Wouldn't Ned's death under strange circumstances bring about an early war as well prior to drogo/dany or aegon being ready?
I was thinking that the idea was that Ned's death would stave off war for awhile (dumb). It would prevent him from bringing the incest issue to light. It would also prevent him from "connecting the dots" on the Aryn/incest connection (we know that wasn't really why he was murdered)
 
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NY Times Review of AGOT Season 2. I'll use the Spoiler tag for those who haven't read AGOT or have not watched season 1 yet.

March 29, 2012

Critic’s Notebook

Uneasy Lies the Head That Steals a Crown

By NEIL GENZLINGER

Midway through Season 1 of “Game of Thrones,” viewers were treated to a particularly gruesome scene that showed a lovely princess named Daenerys Targaryen eating the raw heart of a horse.

Turns out it was something of a metaphor for the series itself. In the second-to-last episode last season, “Game of Thrones” in effect ate its own heart by killing off its main and most noble character, Ned Stark, who was played by Sean Bean, perhaps the best-known actor in this cast-of-thousands extravaganza.

So the question for HBO as Season 2 begins on Sunday is this: Who is going to replace Ned as a focus of the series? The answer, at least four episodes in: no one.

The new season of this dense medieval fantasy set in a land called Westeros serves up a whole bunch of wartime posturing, a seemingly endless number of would-be rulers and the usual sex and (sometimes in the same scene) violence. But it sure doesn’t give viewers much to latch onto.

Continuing with our body-parts metaphor, is our attention supposed to transfer to Joffrey (Jack Gleeson), the bile duct of the show, who had dear old Ned’s head lopped off and now sits on the throne? How about to Ned’s widow, Lady Catelyn (Michelle Fairley), the appendix, present but not particularly necessary?

Ned’s assorted children are floating around and might turn into something important — lungs, kidneys, even a heart — but it’s hard to tell, because so many plotlines have been set in motion that in any given week none of these offspring get enough screen time to evolve into the kind of layered character who can sustain a series. The same is true of the heart-eating Daenerys (Emilia Clarke), who lost her husband in Season 1 but gained some baby dragons. She may be the most interesting figure still standing, but, at least early in the new season, her scenes are few and far between.

In the opening credits, top billing now goes by default to Peter Dinklage, who plays Tyrion Lannister, younger brother of Cersei and Jaime, the incestuous twins who spawned Joffrey. Mr. Dinklage won the supporting actor Emmy for his work in Season 1, though his role was relatively minor. He has more to do in Season 2; Tyrion is just about the only character developing any complexity. Maybe even a glimmer of a conscience.

Everyone else is busy preparing for war, though against whom seems to be almost random, as if enemies and allies were assigned by throwing darts at a wall chart. “Another king?” Cersei (Lena Headey) says in the season’s second episode, referring to one of those who are gathering armies and staking a claim to the throne. “How many is that now? Five? I’ve lost count.”

You aren’t the only one, Your Majesty. And for every claimant, there are relatives, mentors, aides, lovers. The character board for the series on HBO’s Web site has 49 head shots on it. Thinking of jumping into the new season without having seen the first? Don’t even try; your brain doesn’t have that many neurons.

Some people love this kind of stuff, of course, and presumably those addicted to the George R. R. Martin books on which the series is based will immerse themselves in Season 2, just as they did in Season 1. Will anyone else? You have to have a fair amount of free time on your hands to stick with “Game of Thrones,” and a fairly low reward threshold. If decapitations and regular helpings of bare breasts and buttocks are all you require of your television, step right up.

Sure, it’s possible to make a decent no-character-is-safe show; a series needn’t have a sympathetic major figure if its evil ones somehow shed light on the human condition or the wages of sin. And there may be illuminating episodes ahead in “Game of Thrones.” But in the early going Season 2 seems mostly to be presenting vileness for voyeurism’s sake. You wince every time Joffrey, a sadist, comes on the screen, and not in an “Ooh, I wonder what nasty thing he’ll do next” sort of way. If you find yourself looking forward to Joffrey’s scenes, there’s something wrong with you.

What “Game of Thrones” needs if it is to expand its fan base beyond Dungeons & Dragons types is what most of the United States didn’t get this year: a hard winter. Life in this particular fantasy land consists of seasons of indeterminate length, and since the series began there have been references to an impending winter of fearsome power.

Now there is also something else ominous brewing beyond the Wall that protects the kingdom’s northern border. Mysterious forces and creatures are up there, along with a bunch of wilderness people who may be getting organized. Any and all could be heading south at any time.

So far, the rough weather and the invaders from the north have mostly been hinted at, vague threats that don’t seem in any hurry to materialize. Here’s hoping that they get a move on. To this point we’ve seen only a bunch of petty pretenders jockeying for a throne that, frankly, doesn’t seem all that desirable to begin with. How would they react to an outside force that puts allies and enemies alike in jeopardy? That might be enough to get this meandering series back onto some kind of track.
 
NY Times Review of AGOT Season 2...March 29, 2012Critic’s NotebookUneasy Lies the Head That Steals a CrownBy NEIL GENZLINGER"I don't get this series at all so I'm going to go with the overused, never questioned, but ultimately vapid lack of character depth criticism and cast aspersions on having sex and violence depicted. Also, I'm a really smart and clever critic, but somehow I just can't comprehend all these different characters - it's too confusing for me."
You'd have thought the guy might have had enough intellectual curiosity about the subject he's criticizing to at least know the titles of the books the series is based on. Let's see, book two - Clash Of Kings. Shocking that there'd be more than one king in this season, and more than two is incomprehensible! Seems like this guy should stick to watching Mad Men with its lovely, manageably limited number of "layered characters."
 
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'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'sn0mm1s said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
About Varys

Why does he essentially tell Ned stark that Jon aryn was killed by ser hugh at the behest of the lannisters when he has to know that isn't true? And why was Hugh then killed when in actuality he had nothing to do with the murder? Did he know of the incest?Why were Varys and illario plotting below the red keep that Ned should die as the last hand did? Especially being that they didn't have anything to do with aryn's death apparently. Wouldn't Ned's death under strange circumstances bring about an early war as well prior to drogo/dany or aegon being ready?
You have some of your facts wrong and I would hate to correct them because I don't want to spoil stuff.
How so? I have read all the books. My questions were prompted by the episode "the lion and the wolf" though.
I don't feel like typing out an essay because of the all the what if's.Let's assume this is true:Lysa poisoned the wine that Jon drank.Ser Hugh, being a squire, served the wine (but may or may not have known about its contents)Varys may very well believe that Ser Hugh poisoned him if the only other suspect is Lysa. However, even if Varys knows the truth of it, setting Ned on a path to track down the motivations of a dead man helps Varys and Illyrio by delaying Ned Stark from taking any action. It also puts his focus on the Lannisters which is what they want anyway - they just don't want it to escalate to war too quickly.Ser Hugh may have been killed by Cersei if she suspected he knew about the bastards. Littlefinger or Varys could also have orchestrated it for similar reasons. It could also just be the simple cruelty of Ser Gregor was the reason he died. In any event, Varys took advantage of the situation to point Ned in a certain direction.This leads to the motivations of Varys.1) He wants the realm unstable.2) He wants to be trusted by everyone.He does this by being Ned's spider and casting suspicion on the Lannisters. Varys and Illyrio are discussing the possibility of killing Ned - not that they are definitely going to do it. Again, they want the realm unstable for the return of Viserys but they don't want a war to happen too soon.As far as Ned's death - Jon Arryn's death wasn't suspicious. The only reason it is even an issue is because of Lysa's Littlefinger inspired note to Catelyn. If Ned's death looks like an accident then only Catelyn would be concerned - and would likely be dismissed.The entire series is full of lies with hints of truth that the scheming characters use to further their goals. IMO, it is likely that Ser Hugh was nothing more than a scapegoat and was probably awarded a knighthood from Robert either due to Robert's own sense of obligation or may have been nudged that way from Varys or Littlefinger. He was probably killed by Ser Gregor because Gregor was paid by Varys or Littlefinger or because he thought it would be fun.Varys just took advantage of the sitution made a up a story, that really couldn't be questioned or confirmed, to further his own goals.
 
NY Times Review of AGOT Season 2...March 29, 2012Critic’s NotebookUneasy Lies the Head That Steals a CrownBy NEIL GENZLINGER"I don't get this series at all so I'm going to go with the overused, never questioned, but ultimately vapid lack of character depth criticism and cast aspersions on having sex and violence depicted. Also, I'm a really smart and clever critic, but somehow I just can't comprehend all these different characters - it's too confusing for me."
You'd have thought the guy might have had enough intellectual curiosity about the subject he's criticizing to at least know the titles of the books the series is based on. Let's see, book two - Clash Of Kings. Shocking that there'd be more than one king in this season, and more than two is incomprehensible! Seems like this guy should stick to watching Mad Men with its lovely, manageably limited number of "layered characters."
seems like he doesnt like season 2 and there isnt enough time in hour to cover everyone. whatev
 
Pretty obvious that this reviewer needs a central character to latch on to and root for, and he's never going to get that in this show, post-Ned's death. What a simpleton.

 
Question about S1E1:

The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?

 
Question about S1E1:The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?
A good question, stop trying to look behind the curtain.Actually the way I figured it is that he made it back to the wall and then deserted.
 
Question about S1E1:The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?
A good question, stop trying to look behind the curtain.Actually the way I figured it is that he made it back to the wall and then deserted.
Plenty of ways for one guy to make it past the wall. The purpose of the wall is to stop many.
 
Question about S1E1:The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?
A good question, stop trying to look behind the curtain.Actually the way I figured it is that he made it back to the wall and then deserted.
Plenty of ways for one guy to make it past the wall. The purpose of the wall is to stop many.
Most of the Wall is abandoned. Hundreds of years ago, the Night Watch had a lot more people, and had something like 20 outposts all fully manned along the wall. Now, all but 3 are abandoned. The Night's Watch is in pretty bad shape. It does it's job of keeping a full scale invasion out, just because the Wall is so big. But like kupcho said, individuals can and do slip by all the time. Osha is one that did (the wilding girl they have at Winterfell).
 
Question about S1E1:The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?
The wall is not very well manned anymore. It would be rather easy to get across, particularly for somebody who knew about their patrols.
 
Question about S1E1:The guy who gets executed in the beginning supposedly is a deserter. He deserts after his crew is killed by the winter thing north of the wall. The wall blocks off all access to the south but he is caught close to Winterfell. How does he make it past the wall to escape?
The wall is not very well manned anymore. It would be rather easy to get across, particularly for somebody who knew about their patrols.
Reminds me of the US sending National Guard to Iraq/Afghanistan while our borders go unwatched and the cartels slowly invade.
 
I have been reading a lot of interviews and articles and I cannot recall which this was from but the makers said that Swords is definitely being broken into 2 seasons. That there will be some overlap this season along with some storylines being truncated or eliminated and some characters combined. Interestingly they also said the plan is to tell the adaptation over 70 hours maybe 80. Which would be all the books plus possibly 1. Although if Swords is 2 seasons and they do 70 hours perhaps Crows and Dragons will have major editing and combining going on. Which would be a positive in many respects.

CAN'T WAIT!

 
I told myself I was join to DVR the episodes and watch them in 3 episode blocks. Can't do it.

Have been watching the replays off and on today. I think the two story lines I am most interested in are Jon Snow (rooting for him and his band of watchmen) and Ayra Stark (hoping she kills Joffrey).

I am amazed at how good the casting was. Great acting performances all around.

 
I've been whistling the theme song all day. The wife is about to punch me in the throat.
Oh, this reminds me. Sidetracking. Two weeks ago, my brother got married. The ceremony wasn't super fancy. Civil marriage, with about 40 family members and friends. I was the best man, and he warned me that I would like the song he picked out for my walk down the aisle. Of course, I was grinning from ear to ear when the moment came and the Game of Thrones theme song kicked in! :nerd: :nerd: Really, it was awesome. Our friends got a huge kick out of it too. Of course, the song was stuck in my head for the rest of the day after that. Watching the first season together every week was one of the last things we did before he got a new place with the missus. :popcorn:

 
A few SPOILER FREE thoughts

1. Robb has gone from being the more boring character to being one of my favorite and a real BMF in just a few episodes

2. The ending was hard to watch, can't say I had ever seen that before on tv

3. Was it just me or did Littlefinger's accent sound completely different?

4. With the addition to the CGI budget, King's Landing looked 100x bigger than in season 1.

 
A few SPOILER FREE thoughts1. Robb has gone from being the more boring character to being one of my favorite and a real BMF in just a few episodes2. The ending was hard to watch, can't say I had ever seen that before on tv3. Was it just me or did Littlefinger's accent sound completely different? 4. With the addition to the CGI budget, King's Landing looked 100x bigger than in season 1.
I'm not sure I recall that ending happening in the book. But it has been a long time since I read them.
 
A few SPOILER FREE thoughts1. Robb has gone from being the more boring character to being one of my favorite and a real BMF in just a few episodes2. The ending was hard to watch, can't say I had ever seen that before on tv3. Was it just me or did Littlefinger's accent sound completely different? 4. With the addition to the CGI budget, King's Landing looked 100x bigger than in season 1.
I'm not sure I recall that ending happening in the book. But it has been a long time since I read them.
I haven't read the books, but it seems like they want every season debut to end with something really shocking: twincest and now this
 
A few SPOILER FREE thoughts1. Robb has gone from being the more boring character to being one of my favorite and a real BMF in just a few episodes2. The ending was hard to watch, can't say I had ever seen that before on tv3. Was it just me or did Littlefinger's accent sound completely different? 4. With the addition to the CGI budget, King's Landing looked 100x bigger than in season 1.
I'm not sure I recall that ending happening in the book. But it has been a long time since I read them.
I haven't read the books, but it seems like they want every season debut to end with something really shocking: twincest and now this
I've read every word of the series and there are plenty more shocks ahead.
 
the ******* roundup was implied in the books. There was no character POV in the book to provide the blow by blow gory details.

I continue to enjoy their interpretation of the source material. Good editing/combining ect.

Liked the Stannis intro round the table.

 
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the ******* roundup was implied in the books. There was no character POV in the book to provide the blow by blow gory details.I continue to enjoy their interpretation of the source material. Good editing/combining ect.Liked the Stannis intro round the table.
Always liked Davos, the actor they got for him is pretty close to what I'd imagined.
 
the ******* roundup was implied in the books. There was no character POV in the book to provide the blow by blow gory details.I continue to enjoy their interpretation of the source material. Good editing/combining ect.Liked the Stannis intro round the table.
Agreed. My only slight complaint is, in my mind, Craster looked more like how they are portraying Balon Greyjoy and vice versa.
 
the ******* roundup was implied in the books. There was no character POV in the book to provide the blow by blow gory details.I continue to enjoy their interpretation of the source material. Good editing/combining ect.Liked the Stannis intro round the table.
Agreed. My only slight complaint is, in my mind, Craster looked more like how they are portraying Balon Greyjoy and vice versa.
Did not like Craster at all. Way too clean cut and sane. And I'm underwhelmed by Melisandre's portrail as well. Stanis and Davos are right on the money though.
 
I dug it.

I've decided to read each book after the season ends, so I didn't have any preconceived notions about what the new characters should be like.

Very interested to see what happens with Joffrey. How far can he push the envelope with his mother and grandfather?

Rob Stark and Jon Snow are my two favorite characters now (other than Tyrion)

 

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