HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

[KarmaPolice]

I know they can't read books in that other thread, but some of the questions they are asking makes we wonder if they are even watching the show.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I watched the season preview yesterday and I thought ti was interesting that several people made the point that this season will be different than the first 3 seasons in that there is no singular end-game for the season - they talked about how the previous seasons had all built towards episode 9, but that this season will be more of a rush, all season long.

Presumably it means that there will be several "climaxes" during the season - and it will be much faster paced. I thought last night was a good start.

 

[Swing 51]

I wasn't too happy with the Arya and Hound scene at the inn. It is probably my favorite scene in the books (although the new chapter on GRRM's site rivals it) and it just didn't feel the same.

In the books, wasn't The Hound gravely wounded during that scene?

Didn't he get nicked in the back of the leg?

Festering wound that becomes infected.

You are thinking of The Mountain (during Tyrion's trial by combat).

 

[sn0mm1s]

Why didn't we like the Arya scene?

Apparently there are lady Stoneheart subway posters. Pretty big spoiler by HBO.

The book scene was far better. I am not sure what compelled them to kill the Tickler off in Season 2 because that makes the inn scene in the books.

In the books, there are only 3 Lannister men - the Tickler, Polliver, and some young squire. The dialog is way better - not some nonsense over a chicken. Sandor is fighting off the Tickler and Polliver (who are good fighters), Arya stabs the squire. Sandor kills Polliver. Then, when Sandor is fighting the Tickler, Arya sneaks up behind the Tickler and stabs him with Needle - and flips out. She starts shouting all the questions the Tickler asked the people he tortured in Harrenhal and Sandor has to pull her off the Tickler because she is still stabbing him while he is dead. A *far* better scene than her calmly and coldly taking revenge. Sandor then instructs her how to mercy kill the squire (who she has mortally wounded but won't die for days) which comes into play later.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I wasn't too happy with the Arya and Hound scene at the inn. It is probably my favorite scene in the books (although the new chapter on GRRM's site rivals it) and it just didn't feel the same.

In the books, wasn't The Hound gravely wounded during that scene?

Didn't he get nicked in the back of the leg?

Festering wound that becomes infected.

In the books, Sandor has a wound on his thigh and part of his ear got cut off. He makes Arya bandage the wounds.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I wasn't too happy with the Arya and Hound scene at the inn. It is probably my favorite scene in the books (although the new chapter on GRRM's site rivals it) and it just didn't feel the same.

In the books, wasn't The Hound gravely wounded during that scene?

Didn't he get nicked in the back of the leg?

Festering wound that becomes infected.

You are thinking of The Mountain (during Tyrion's trial by combat).

Mountain gets poisoned - and the wound isn't through the leg.

 

[Thunderlips]

Thought the first episode was a bit rushed, with a little bit too much non story dialgouge in it. I thought that the initial Oberyn/Tyrion conversation/meeting was better in the book (Oberyn talks of meeting Tyrion when he was a baby) and I thought the conflict between The Hound and The Mountain's men was better.

 

[Thunderlips]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

 

[Premier]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

 

[shadyridr]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

I know they can't read books in that other thread, but some of the questions they are asking makes we wonder if they are even watching the show.

Easy for someone to say from someone WHO READ THE BOOKS!

 

[jamny]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

What benefit would it serve to correctly speculate except to maybe make yourself look smart or to just ruin things for other people. Both are dooshy.

 

[Premier]

It's a weird thing to have taken the time to read something, and then want to ruin that enjoyment that you had for others for no reason other than general dooshiness.

 

[Abrantes]

Other than the subjective "I liked it better in the book" complaint, I don't see much fault with the inn scene. Well executed, and got some good material from the Hound. Personally, Arya's my favorite in both the book and the show, but I've already accepted that the show is handling the character differently.

All in all, big fan of the episode. Great start.

 

[flysack]

Red Viper referenced Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna?

He did. She must of been a hot babe tempted both Rheagar and Robert.

Partly - but it was mainly because of something that Rhaegar read that convinced him that he needed to have more children - and Elia IIRC wasn't strong enough to have more children.

It'd be interesting to dig up what Rhaegar read (if possible) that convinced him to have more children. Considering one of those children is probably John Snow, it'd be neat if it was the prophecy that Melisandre and Maester Aemon mention.

 

[flysack]

BTW, Rhaegar Targaryen must be the most noble, fantastic badass character I've ever read without a single scene or even passing appearance. The guy is a tragic myth, and a good one at that.

 

[Thunderlips]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

Uhh...yeah. Obviously I'm not too concerned with that perfect crime.

Spoliers Nazi's are douchebags though. I get it...you don't want to realize that Jofferey and Tywin die this season. No reason to get all bent out of shape because someone mentions that Mycella has relevance.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

 

[Swing 51]

I wasn't too happy with the Arya and Hound scene at the inn. It is probably my favorite scene in the books (although the new chapter on GRRM's site rivals it) and it just didn't feel the same.

In the books, wasn't The Hound gravely wounded during that scene?

Didn't he get nicked in the back of the leg?

Festering wound that becomes infected.

You are thinking of The Mountain (during Tyrion's trial by combat).

Mountain gets poisoned - and the wound isn't through the leg.

woops forgot Hound was wounded in the scene (books) at the Inn.

 

[Thunderlips]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

I know they can't read books in that other thread, but some of the questions they are asking makes we wonder if they are even watching the show.

Easy for someone to say from someone WHO READ THE BOOKS!

1. why would somebody who gets so upset about outside knowledge be over here?

2. a lot of people I talk to never read the books and seem to be able pick up on stuff just fine. questions you are asking just require actually watching the show.

 

[psychobillies]

So, the blue rose scene was interesting.

 

[flysack]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him. No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

 

[Premier]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

Uhh...yeah. Obviously I'm not too concerned with that perfect crime.

Spoliers Nazi's are douchebags though. I get it...you don't want to realize that Jofferey and Tywin die this season. No reason to get all bent out of shape because someone mentions that Mycella has relevance.

I already know what happens. You're just being a putz for no reason. You have your thread here. Why go ruin the show for others? Did you not get hugged enough as a kid?

 

[sn0mm1s]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him. No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Rhaegar didn't capture Lyanna for the war or the trading of captives. He took her because of some prophecy he read that he is trying to fulfill. Ser Barristan tells part of this story in the novels. Rhaegar reads something and all of a sudden he wants to learn how to fight (when he had no interest prior). Also, IIRC in the House of the Undying, Rhaegar is telling Elia that the dragon needs 3 heads - but they only have two children and it was implied (again I believe by Selmy) that Elia could probably not have more children due to how weak she was and how the last pregnancy went. So, Rhaegar thinks he needs to have a 3rd kid - enter Lyanna Stark.

 

[Gr00vus]

Man, Indira Varma has been hot for a very long time.

I thought that was a good episode. There were a couple of scenes where there wasn't much going on, just some nice visuals, that probably could have been removed for some more exposition, but that would be my only complaint.

 

[flysack]

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

noble

Just the sort of guy Eddard Stark might aid and abet IMO.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure TBH. But I'd bet my life's earnings that Rhaeger didn't kidnap or rape Lyanna. And I suspect that Eddard either helped them run off together or kept it quiet after he found out what was really happening.

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him. No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Rhaegar didn't capture Lyanna for the war or the trading of captives. He took her because of some prophecy he read that he is trying to fulfill. Ser Barristan tells part of this story in the novels. Rhaegar reads something and all of a sudden he wants to learn how to fight (when he had no interest prior). Also, IIRC in the House of the Undying, Rhaegar is telling Elia that the dragon needs 3 heads - but they only have two children and it was implied (again I believe by Selmy) that Elia could probably not have more children due to how weak she was and how the last pregnancy went. So, Rhaegar thinks he needs to have a 3rd kid - enter Lyanna Stark.

I recall that. But why Lyanna? That makes no sense.

 

[EYLive]

So, the blue rose scene was interesting.

Are they not going to have the Strong Belwas character or has he not appeared yet at this point of the story? The timelines all blend together.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I recall that. But why Lyanna? That makes no sense.

Maybe it was something he read. Maybe it was because he heard about her prowess at fighting and riding. Maybe it was due to her defense of Howland Reed at the tourney at Harrenhal. Maybe it was her House/bloodline. Maybe he just thought she was hot. There are a lot of reasons why - I don't think any of them don't make sense - he is the Prince of the Seven Kingdoms. Rhaegar just obviously didn't foresee the outcome.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I recall that. But why Lyanna? That makes no sense.

Because he needed a third child and Elia couldn't give it to him.

Alternately because the Targaryens represent fire and the Starks represent ice and the realm needed a hero from both? (pure speculation)

 

[encaitar]

He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire

I think this is the prophecy Rhaegar read which made him get with Lyanna.

 

[Gr00vus]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

Are you saying Eddard was complicit with Rhaegar abducting Lyanna? I didn't get that from the books at all.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

We don't know what the promise is because then we would know that Jon Snow is actually a Targ or ******* Targ from very early on in the series. But due to the way he shuts down Robert and Catelyn when they start prying into Jon's mother's identity I think it can be safely assumed that his promise was to protect Jon.

I think Eddard thought Lyanna was kidnapped and raped until he finally talked to her. After that he realized that if she wasn't complicit initially she was likely complicit in the end. Eddard's guilt/burden is that he is lying to everyone about Jon and suffering consequences for those lies. Jon causes a rift between his wife and is ammunition from enemies (both Cersei and Jaime mock Ned and Catelyn about Ned not really being honorable because of his ******* son).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

Are you saying Eddard was complicit with Rhaegar abducting Lyanna? I didn't get that from the books at all.

I'm saying that I think Eddard either knew why she rode off with Rhaegar (of her own free will) or that he helped. But it's not said anywhere -- I'm speculating. I think the fact that we're never told what the promise is is interesting. And I think the fact that Eddard's guilt is so deep even after 15 years means it's more than lying to his wife about the ******* child. And I think that it's interesting that Eddard decided to go to the Tower of Joy after Rhaegar was killed. How did he know to go there? And why did he go immediately after the war.

Some of this speculation is covered in crazy detail elsewhere. This is just my spin on it.

 

[Gr00vus]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

Are you saying Eddard was complicit with Rhaegar abducting Lyanna? I didn't get that from the books at all.

I'm saying that I think Eddard either knew why she rode off with Rhaegar (of her own free will) or that he helped. But it's not said anywhere -- I'm speculating. I think the fact that we're never told what the promise is is interesting. And I think the fact that Eddard's guilt is so deep even after 15 years means it's more than lying to his wife about the ******* child. And I think that it's interesting that Eddard decided to go to the Tower of Joy after Rhaegar was killed. How did he know to go there? And why did he go immediately after the war.

Some of this speculation is covered in crazy detail elsewhere. This is just my spin on it.

I'd like to think that if Eddard was in on it from the start, he'd have figured out a better way of getting Lyanna out of the tower than instigating/participating in a battle that ended up killing a bunch of good men which he himself had to be bailed out of of by Howland Reed. I don't think he knew anything until after he actually got in to the tower to see Lyanna. And that's to say nothing about the idiocy of allowing and participating in a whole war over her in the first place when he might have been able to at least try to find a less disastrous way to get King crazy off the throne - assuming he and Rheagar were secret pals from the get go as in your scenario.

 

[sdp1226]

I loved how they dropped the Ser Duncan the Tall easterEgg into this episode. I read this series a while ago though, and don't remember that he was ever in the King's Gurad.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Rhaegar's father tortured and killed Eddard's father and brother, and Rhaegar led the army to protect him.

No way Eddard helps him. The likely story is Rhaegar did capture Lyanna in the hopes of trading for captives or something like that, but then the two of them fell in love. She bore his child, and on her deathbed made Eddard swear to protect her child. He promised (as he says over and over in Book I).

Where does it say Eddard's promise was to protect the child? He made a promise, but we don't know exactly what it is. Why not?

Also, Rhaegar recognized his father for a madman and we're told Rhaegar intended to do something about it after the war.

Finally, I think Eddard's guilt is exactly tied to everything you mention. He and Rhaegar knew that what led Eddard's brother to ride into the Red Keep (Lyanna being kidnapped and raped) was a lie, and they didn't stop it. Because they believed they were doing something more important and both were dutiful and honorable to a fault. For Eddard that burden is what underlies the overwhelming/existential guilt.

YMMV

Are you saying Eddard was complicit with Rhaegar abducting Lyanna? I didn't get that from the books at all.

I'm saying that I think Eddard either knew why she rode off with Rhaegar (of her own free will) or that he helped. But it's not said anywhere -- I'm speculating. I think the fact that we're never told what the promise is is interesting. And I think the fact that Eddard's guilt is so deep even after 15 years means it's more than lying to his wife about the ******* child. And I think that it's interesting that Eddard decided to go to the Tower of Joy after Rhaegar was killed. How did he know to go there? And why did he go immediately after the war.

Some of this speculation is covered in crazy detail elsewhere. This is just my spin on it.

I'd like to think that if Eddard was in on it from the start, he'd have figured out a better way of getting Lyanna out of the tower than instigating/participating in a battle that ended up killing a bunch of good men which he himself had to be bailed out of of by Howland Reed. I don't think he knew anything until after he actually got in to the tower to see Lyanna.

I don't see how we could think he was in on it from the start. There would be no reason to kill the remaining Kingsguard. Lyanna wouldn't be calling for him. Ned could've told Brandon and his father not to go. I don't think there is any evidence that Ned knew Lyanna was going to run off with Rhaeger. He even defended Robert's phliandering to Lyanna.

 

[Gr00vus]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison hairnet? If so, I'd guess that they'll tweak things even more and have this necklace end up being "found" by the gaggle of handmaidens sent to find a proper necklace for Margery to wear at her wedding and being the one they have Olenna "choose" for Margery to wear.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison veil?

He never gave her a necklace - only a hairnet that she had to wear at the wedding if she wanted to go home. It is the substitute for the hairnet - especially since the stones looked like amethyst.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I dont think Ned knew what was up with his Sister & the prince until he got to the tower of joy.

Too little too late.

 

[sdp1226]

So, the blue rose scene was interesting.

Are they not going to have the Strong Belwas character or has he not appeared yet at this point of the story? The timelines all blend together.

He first appeared was in Clash when Daenerys was in Quarth. I am holding out hope that they'll introduce him soon (doesn't seem likely) since he has a great scene when they take over Mereen, which is coming up soon in the show.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

How did Ned know to go to the Tower at all?

Regardless of how he knew or what Jon represents, Ned knew if he left the child in the tower Robert would kill it.

But the Kingsguard were told to guard the tower by Rhaegar -- then Rhaegar died. They didn't answer to Ned.

So which is more compelling?

That following a war Ned immidiately took a half-dozen of his best men to fight and die against three other good men to save a ******* child of rape? And that he promised his sister he'd protect that ******* child of rape and live a life of shame, not even telling his wife, just because his sister asked him to?

Or that Ned had a bigger and better reason (even if my specific idea is wrong) to know where the tower was, and to fight and kill and live in shame?

I'm speculating 100% here. I just find the latter to be more convincing. And I think the handful of things that GRRM has not told us (what the promise was, the details of the 'kidnapping', Howland Reed's disappearance, how Ned knew where to go, etc etc) fit into that idea.

 

[Rick James]

I've forgotten - did Dontos give Sansa a necklace at this point in the books? Or do you think this necklace in the show ends up being a stand in for the poison hairnet? If so, I'd guess that they'll tweak things even more and have this necklace end up being "found" by the gaggle of handmaidens sent to find a proper necklace for Margery to wear at her wedding and being the one they have Olenna "choose" for Margery to wear.

Oh that's pretty good....

Although...did the TV show have the prophecy of "purple serpents in her hair"...?? You know that old woman (child of the forest) who Arya and the Brothers Without Banners run into before all hell breaks loose?

 

[sn0mm1s]

How did Ned know to go to the Tower at all?

Hundreds of ways - Varys, Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, hundreds of captured Targ loyalists, etc.etc. finding Lyanna was after the sack of King's Landing and the defeat of Rhaegar - plenty of people might have known where Lyanna went.

Regardless of how he knew or what Jon represents, Ned knew if he left the child in the tower Robert would kill it.

But the Kingsguard were told to guard the tower by Rhaegar -- then Rhaegar died. They didn't answer to Ned.

So which is more compelling?

That following a war Ned immidiately took a half-dozen of his best men to fight and die against three other good men to save a ******* child of rape? And that he promised his sister he'd protect that ******* child of rape and live a life of shame, not even telling his wife, just because his sister asked him to?

He didn't care about Jon (or likely even knew about him). If everyone knew Lyanna was pregnant than *Robert* would've known as well. Ned was going south to get back his sister and end the resistance - Jon was just an unwelcome surprise.

Or that Ned had a bigger and better reason (even if my specific idea is wrong) to know where the tower was, and to fight and kill and live in shame?

I'm speculating 100% here. I just find the latter to be more convincing. And I think the handful of things that GRRM has not told us (what the promise was, the details of the 'kidnapping', Howland Reed's disappearance, how Ned knew where to go, etc etc) fit into that idea.

I don't think so. Nothing Ned did either when we were reading his viewpoint or from his history suggests that he helped Lyanna go to Rhaegar and then let the Seven Kingdoms burn because of the decision.

 

[thecatch]

If all this Rhaegar speculation has merit, Jon can't be dead, right? Seems like he would be too important even for Martin to kill off in that event.

 

[Thunderlips]

Also, would it be worth it to set up an alias and then go into the TV ONLY THREAD!!!!!!! as a non book reader, yet speculate correctly on everything that happens this season?

You realize people can see this thread too right? Don't be a doosh.

Uhh...yeah. Obviously I'm not too concerned with that perfect crime.

Spoliers Nazi's are douchebags though. I get it...you don't want to realize that Jofferey and Tywin die this season. No reason to get all bent out of shape because someone mentions that Mycella has relevance.

I already know what happens. You're just being a putz for no reason. You have your thread here. Why go ruin the show for others? Did you not get hugged enough as a kid?

Hey Chief....where did I ruin the show for others? The kid asked a question and I said that I didn't think they did a good enough job of representing Dorne. If that's ruining stuff for you or him....grow up and get thicker skin. If my comment is the worst thing that's happened to people in that thread...then they're doing pretty good in life.

 

[sn0mm1s]

If all this Rhaegar speculation has merit, Jon can't be dead, right? Seems like he would be too important even for Martin to kill off in that event.

I think that is what most people are hoping. That said, we don't know if Jon is going to come back as Jon, or as permanent warg in Ghost (like Varamyr), or if he takes over someone else's body (like Bran does to Hodor).

 

[encaitar]

How did Ned know to go to the Tower at all?

Regardless of how he knew or what Jon represents, Ned knew if he left the child in the tower Robert would kill it.

But the Kingsguard were told to guard the tower by Rhaegar -- then Rhaegar died. They didn't answer to Ned.

So which is more compelling?

That following a war Ned immidiately took a half-dozen of his best men to fight and die against three other good men to save a ******* child of rape? And that he promised his sister he'd protect that ******* child of rape and live a life of shame, not even telling his wife, just because his sister asked him to?

Or that Ned had a bigger and better reason (even if my specific idea is wrong) to know where the tower was, and to fight and kill and live in shame?

I'm speculating 100% here. I just find the latter to be more convincing. And I think the handful of things that GRRM has not told us (what the promise was, the details of the 'kidnapping', Howland Reed's disappearance, how Ned knew where to go, etc etc) fit into that idea.

Ned was in the Vale with Robert Baratheon and Jon Arryn when Rhaegar stole Lyanna. He had no idea why and wouldn't have gone to war if the Mad King hadn't killed his father and brother and ordered Ned's execution.

 

[Thunderlips]

If all this Rhaegar speculation has merit, Jon can't be dead, right? Seems like he would be too important even for Martin to kill off in that event.

I think that is what most people are hoping. That said, we don't know if Jon is going to come back as Jon, or as permanent warg in Ghost (like Varamyr), or if he takes over someone else's body (like Bran does to Hodor).

That's how I think Howland Reed defeated Sir Arthur Dayne ( a comment was made on him last night).