If you read her autobiography she was definitely privileged. She made the progress she made is because she always had money to have all the best things at all the best universities.Yep. Thats right. Time magazine Article
However, to some Black disability rights activists, like Anita Cameron, Helen Keller is not radical at all, “just another, despite disabilities, privileged white person,” and yet another example of history telling the story of privileged white Americans.
There are no merits to the position. To call helen keller a priviliged white person is absurd.In fairness I haven’t read this. But instead of taking an extreme and predictable position, might you try to first understand the merits of the perspective? There might just be some.
Had similar discussion with good friend who signed book deal with major publisher for what has potential to be an important fantasy book series for teens.
She was given notes to change ethnicity of some characters. Then to reconsider words like “crazy,” “idiot” and “stupid.”
Her reaction was it seems a bit much, and that JK Rowling would probably have gotten #### about a lot of what she wrote in the Harry Potter series.
She asked my advice, and I said it’s complicated and worth thinking through.
Art reflects, but it also influences. As an artist, what’s the responsibility? Do you risk losing relatability, to model better behavior? It’s worth considering and not dismissing out of hand.
My ultimate comment was if generations look back and conclude we got it wrong by trying to be too considerate, too kind, and it seems artificial — so what? Is that the worst legacy we can leave? I’d sure as hell rather leave that than Bugs Bunny cartoons in black face.
So here’s the point: What do you have to gain by dismissing these nuanced discussions out of hand?
Are you saying she wasn’t privileged? That she did not have things other kids had?There are no merits to the position. To call helen keller a priviliged white person is absurd.
Was she not white? Was she not privileged?To call helen keller a priviliged white person is absurd.
Look, if you want to try and argue that the definition of priviliged means any instance of having one more thing than any one person, have at it.Are you saying she wasn’t privileged? That she did not have things other kids had?
How much do you know about Hellen Keller?
Are we not men? We are Devo.Was she not white? Was she not privileged?
If that is what you think the argument is about, then I would guess you don’t know much about HK.Look, if you want to try and argue that the definition of priviliged means any instance of having one more thing than any one person, have at it.
I know enough to know describing her as priviliged is absurd.If that is what you think the argument is about, then I would guess you don’t know much about HK.
White privilege, radical, socialism, etc are all terms mentioned in that article. There is no way this topic would ever not be moved from the ffa.Why is this political, by the way? I’m assuming the source of the faux outrage is some right-leaning infotainment outlet
priv·i·lege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.Look, if you want to try and argue that the definition of priviliged means any instance of having one more thing than any one person, have at it.
When you have to bring up fictitious black deaf and blind kids to compare somebody to, it really isnt a solid argument.priv·i·lege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
A black blind/deaf person at that time would not have had the same opportunities. It doesn’t mean what she accomplished isn’t amazing but she did have white privilege.
Ok. You’re the one that created the topic. Prove the article wrong.When you have to bring up fictitious black deaf and blind kids to compare somebody to, it really isnt a solid argument.
Ok - so all the money and opportunity she had was not privilege. What should we call it instead?I know enough to know describing her as priviliged is absurd.
Also. That reply is just incredibly oblivious or you’re being intentionally obtuse. Either way I’ll stop engaging.When you have to bring up fictitious black deaf and blind kids to compare somebody to, it really isnt a solid argument.
It’s not just racial. It’s also socioeconomic privilege.priv·i·lege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
A black blind/deaf person at that time would not have had the same opportunities. It doesn’t mean what she accomplished isn’t amazing but she did have white privilege.
The article does not attempt to claim this. It is a single sentence quote demonstrating an objection to teaching about her in schools as an example of someone overcoming disability.Ok. You’re the one that created the topic. Prove the article wrong.
Let’s find something absurd that a radical black activist said and start a discussion about it!
Hey Para, if you ever get tired of doing this for free in the politics forum, Tucker or Hannity probably are looking to hire.
I sent them a link. Will update if I get a nibble.Let’s find something absurd that a radical black activist said and start a discussion about it!
Hey Para, if you ever get tired of doing this for free in the politics forum, Tucker or Hannity probably are looking to hire.
Are you saying the color of ones skin does not open up additional opportunity in pay scale across the same position?Everyone is privileged compared to someone else. Calling someone privileged for being white is lazy and usually done by a troll.
She very much overcame disability. Pretty unbelievably. I would also wager this was due in large part to her privilege.The article does not attempt to claim this. It is a single sentence quote demonstrating an objection to teaching about her in schools as an example of someone overcoming disability.
Nobody said she didn’t. One quote in the article was provided as an example of a position that other people should be taught in schools.She very much overcame disability. Pretty unbelievably. I would also wager this was due in large part to her privilege.
For all white people? No it does not. That's why it's lazy. There's always some additional characteristics that would give that person privilege.Are you saying the color of ones skin does not open up additional opportunity in pay scale across the same position?
Like money and opportunity?For all white people? No it does not. That's why it's lazy. There's always some additional characteristics that would give that person privilege.
Please don’t move the goal posts and instead please answer my question.For all white people? No it does not. That's why it's lazy. There's always some additional characteristics that would give that person privilegeAre you saying the color of ones skin does not open up additional opportunity in pay scale across the same position?
Your whole schtick in this thread is moving the goalposts.Please don’t move the goal posts and instead please answer my question.
Helen Keller thinks you're a bit touchy.Your whole schtick in this thread is moving the goalposts.Please don’t move the goal posts and instead please answer my question.
I’m intrigued. Please help me understand how I’ve changed my position in this thread.Your whole schtick in this thread is moving the goalpostsPlease don’t move the goal posts and instead please answer my question.
Somebody deaf and blind can have good luck. They can even come from money. Even lots of money. They can just miss getting hit by a train at some point. Even win the lottery.I’m confused by the arguments. Is it beyond the pale to think someone can be deprived of senses and also privileged, or even lucky?
Take 2 blind and deaf people. One is white with money and opportunity. The other is non-white, poor and destitute. Is it fair to say one is privileged and the other is not?Somebody deaf and blind can have good luck. They can even come from money. Even lots of money. They can just miss getting hit by a train at some point. Even win the lottery.
Nobody should be describing that person as privileged. Or as such a lucky duck. Or as just another rich kid born with a silver spoon. Or insert whatever here.
These are not descriptions that reasonable people use to describe somebody that is deaf and blind regardless of if those situations are true.
The list of people that would trade places with a blind and deaf person is very short.
Even somebody like lou gehrig, the self described luckiest man on the face of the earth, should never be described as "that guy was so lucky" or just another "privileged white guy"
I cant wait til next week when we describe some of the white kids that got to meet their fave athlete through the make a wish foundation as privileged. I mean dude a whole day with peyton manning? So lucky.
OP didn't pull anything out of context. According to the article, the person being quoted thinks that we give Hellen Keller too much prominence.Also seems weird to take a single sentence out of context in an article that is making an entirely different point and try to create a Hot Take out of it.
If you want to accuse someone of dropping a hot take, you should go have a talk with Ms. "Just another . . . privileged white person." That's about the most incendiary wording possible for a not-especially-great pointHowever, to some Black disability rights activists, like Anita Cameron, Helen Keller is not radical at all, “just another, despite disabilities, privileged white person,” and yet another example of history telling the story of privileged white Americans. Critics of Helen Keller cite her writings that reflected the popularity of now-dated eugenics theories and her friendship with one of the movement’s supporters Alexander Graham Bell. The American Foundation for the Blind archivist Helen Selsdon says Keller “moved away from that position.”
The answer to "is the blind and deaf person privileged" is always no.Take 2 blind and deaf people. One is white with money and opportunity. The other is non-white, poor and destitute. Is it fair to say one is privileged and the other is not?
Take your own advice firstPlease don’t move the goal posts and instead please answer my question.
Hint: It's not the white and non-white part that would provide the privilege.Take 2 blind and deaf people. One is white with money and opportunity. The other is non-white, poor and destitute. Is it fair to say one is privileged and the other is not?
Always enjoy this schtick.It's one person's opinion, who cares? There are a lot of more important things to get upset about.
I came in here to say just this. The word "privileged" has in many cases taken on a negative connotation. It sets people off and they immediately get defensive.In my opinion, once the word "privilege" is introduced, real discussion is difficult.
Every single one of us reading this has privilege just by the fact we're able to see and read and have access to a screen of some sort. That puts us way up the scale.
As it now seems we do with most anything, everyone loves to dive in to the ends of the spectrum and take their shots.
One one end, it's the position of "I don't have any privilege. I earned everything I have.
On the other end it's "You didn't do a single thing to get where you are, it is all given to you".
Both are wrong in my opinion.
And the way it's usually discussed is someone more on the "you didn't earn anything" end takes their shot at the guy on the end with the "You didn't earn anything" or "You were born with a silver spoon".
Invariably it seems the discussion goes to belittle the other side and we get exactly what we get.
I think a much better way to talk about it is "Advantages".
To suggest I as a white male born with no physical/mental issues into a middle class family with two parents who loved me didn't have massive advantages compared to many people is absurd. And insulting to other people.
To suggest I didn't do anything to get to where I have is also absurd. And kind of insulting to me and the work I've done.
I think we all get that. But we seem to have a hard time discussing it.
Helen Keller absolutely had advantages with her economic situation and skin color.
Helen Keller absolutely had massive disadvantages with her physical issues and being a woman in that time.
Instead of a hot take that Keller was privileged, I wish we could have more honest discussion.
Huh?There are no merits to the position. To call helen keller a priviliged white person is absurd.
Is the bolded the official privileged police definition of privileged?Huh?
She was white.
She was benefited by a higher percentage of expendable income than the average similarly situated person at her time.
She is a person.
Definitionally it seems very accurate to call her that. I get your point in its context, but it's not absurd to call her a "priveleged white person."
It's accurate in a very specific, almost academic sense.Huh?
She was white.
She was benefited by a higher percentage of expendable income than the average similarly situated person at her time.
She is a person.
Definitionally it seems very accurate to call her that. I get your point in its context, but it's not absurd to call her a "priveleged white person."