Help settle an argument (1 Viewer)

[poopdawg]

I am arguing with a guy I work with and I know that I am 100% right, but I cant find it in the rulebook and I need to settle this so I can get some work done.

Its 4th down and the offense is punting the ball away. The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet. At this point, it has only broken the plane of the goal line. My buddy seems to think that the play is blown dead as soon as it breaks the plane of the goal line and not when it actually touches the ground in the endzone. Please someone respond just so I have some evidence. TIA

 

[Aaronstory]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

 

[poopdawg]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Huh?The ball bounces on the two yard line, back up in the air, breaks the plane of the goal line, but does not yet hit the ground (it obviously will eventually). At this point, the ball is not yet dead, correct?

 

[Aaronstory]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Sorry - I get it now. The play is dead when the ref blows the whistle and I have never seen a ref blow a kick dead when the ball was still bouncing.

 

[PosterNutBag]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

He is saying it has yet to ALSO hit the ground in the endzone. It obviously already hit the ground on the 2-yd line.

 

[chuckmorris]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Null gravity generators in use, obviously. They're going to completely change the game, mark my words!

 

[renesauz]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Huh?The ball bounces on the two yard line, back up in the air, breaks the plane of the goal line, but does not yet hit the ground (it obviously will eventually). At this point, the ball is not yet dead, correct?

Correct...on punting plays, the ball is dead when it touches the ground inside the goal line, or when a player touches it who either is touching inside the end zone, or has not yet re-established himself in the regular field of play after having touched in the end zone.FWIW...it's one of the dumber rules of football. I think it should be consistant with TD rules.

 

[PosterNutBag]

I am arguing with a guy I work with and I know that I am 100% right, but I cant find it in the rulebook and I need to settle this so I can get some work done.Its 4th down and the offense is punting the ball away. The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet. At this point, it has only broken the plane of the goal line. My buddy seems to think that the play is blown dead as soon as it breaks the plane of the goal line and not when it actually touches the ground in the endzone. Please someone respond just so I have some evidence. TIA

I 100% agree with you. The play is not blown dead until the ball bounce ON THE GROUND in the end zone (or at the very least on the goalline itself).

 

[poopdawg]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Sorry - I get it now. The play is dead when the ref blows the whistle and I have never seen a ref blow a kick dead when the ball was still bouncing.

For example, my friend is arguing that a player cannot possibly dive from the 1 yd line and save a ball that has crossed the plane of the goal line that has not hit the ground yet. He is saying that once it breaks the plane, it is blown dead.

 

[IndyHavoc]

I'm assuming that you're arguing on whether or not a punt coverage player can jump from the 1" line, leap in the air, grab the ball and throw it back to a 2nd coverage dude standing at the 2 yard line? Yes, he can. I believe this happened not x1 but x2 last season. This season I've seen many more "blown" opportunities where the coverage guy, trying to look awesome, has rolled his sorry #### into the endzone while holding/touching the ball. If they jump in the air, and the ball never hits the ground inside the endzone (or on the white endzone line) it's a live play.

 

[Aaronstory]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Sorry - I get it now. The play is dead when the ref blows the whistle and I have never seen a ref blow a kick dead when the ball was still bouncing.

For example, my friend is arguing that a player cannot possibly dive from the 1 yd line and save a ball that has crossed the plane of the goal line that has not hit the ground yet. He is saying that once it breaks the plane, it is blown dead.

Yep, and he is incorrect.

 

[poopdawg]

I would love to find this in the rulebook so I can stick it up his ###.

ETA - Sorry, this is cutting into my work day and he is aggravating me.

 

[Aaronstory]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Null gravity generators in use, obviously. They're going to completely change the game, mark my words!

 

[Aaronstory]

I would love to find this in the rulebook so I can stick it up his ###.

You should just find a highlight on YouTube or NFL.com that shows a special teamer saving a kick that goes into the end zone and then send it to him. (Easier said than done, I know...)

 

[PosterNutBag]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Sorry - I get it now. The play is dead when the ref blows the whistle and I have never seen a ref blow a kick dead when the ball was still bouncing.

For example, my friend is arguing that a player cannot possibly dive from the 1 yd line and save a ball that has crossed the plane of the goal line that has not hit the ground yet. He is saying that once it breaks the plane, it is blown dead.

I think this is the ONLY time in NFL rules where "breaking the plane" is meaningless. There was a punt last week (Thanksgiving Day?) that came down right at the goalline and barely hit just on the opposite side of the end zone. It was so close that the kicking team challenged it saying it was a touchback. The replay clearly showed the ball above the goalline spinning around and just barely breaking the plane of the endzone several times, but when it hit the ground it just barely was in front of the goalline and then bounce up to the 1 or 2. The official review confirmed the ruling on the field that it was not a touchback when the replay showed that the ball broke the plane of the goalline (i.e. if this were a rushing play, the location of the ball would have been ruled a TD).

 

[sho nuff]

I believe in the NFL it must touch the ground...in college breaking the plane is enough to make it a touchback.

 

[poopdawg]

Thanks guys. This is all I needed.

Carry on......

 

[PosterNutBag]

Here is something concrete in your defense:

Why is it a touchdown when the ball crosses the plane of the goal line and not a touchback when it crosses the plane on a punt? --Robert Mings, El Dorado, Kan.

The wise men that wrote the rules of football decided that the plane of the goal line would be an imaginary barrier that, if crossed, would be enough for a touchdown. However, they also felt that this plane would not constitute a touchback, but that the ball had to touch something in the end zone, in order for the ball to be placed on the 20-yard line. I know it is hard to explain some of the rules of the game, and to explain their equity; the important thing is to play by the rules and conduct the game the way the rulebook dictates. Officials never question the rule; they merely enforce it.

 

[brettdj]

High School

Ball is dead when it crosses the plane of the goal line. Kicking team player can be in the endzone with ball outside and the ball is dead outside the endzone.

NCAA

Ball is dead when it touches the ground in the endzone. Kicking team player can be in the endzone with ball outside and the ball is dead outside the endzone.

NFL

2006 NFL rulebook Rule 9 (page 70) and page 84...

Article 2 It is a touchback:

(a) when the kickers interfere with a fair catch behind the receivers’ goal line

(10-1-5-Note and 10-1-2); or

(b) when the kickers first touch a punt kicked from anywhere in the field of play, or

missed field-goal attempt from inside the receiver’s 20-yard line, behind the receiver’s

goal line (9-1-13 and 11-5-1, 2, 3).

© when a kicking team player inside the receiver’s 5-yard line illegally recovers or

catches a punt or missed field-goal attempt from inside the receiver’s 20-yard line

(9-1-13 and 11-5-1, 2, 3), and carries the ball directly across the receiver’s goal line

(9-1-4-Note); or his body touches the end zone (See 9-1-4-Note).

 

[chuckmorris]

High School

Ball is dead when it crosses the plane of the goal line. Kicking team player can be in the endzone with ball outside and the ball is dead outside the endzone.

NCAA

Ball is dead when it touches the ground in the endzone. Kicking team player can be in the endzone with ball outside and the ball is dead outside the endzone.

NFL

2006 NFL rulebook Rule 9 (page 70) and page 84...

Article 2 It is a touchback:

(a) when the kickers interfere with a fair catch behind the receivers’ goal line

(10-1-5-Note and 10-1-2); or

(b) when the kickers first touch a punt kicked from anywhere in the field of play, or

missed field-goal attempt from inside the receiver’s 20-yard line, behind the receiver’s

goal line (9-1-13 and 11-5-1, 2, 3).

© when a kicking team player inside the receiver’s 5-yard line illegally recovers or

catches a punt or missed field-goal attempt from inside the receiver’s 20-yard line

(9-1-13 and 11-5-1, 2, 3), and carries the ball directly across the receiver’s goal line

(9-1-4-Note); or his body touches the end zone (See 9-1-4-Note).

The last part of this is the key, where it says "or his body touches the end zone". That's why you often see a player on the punting team trying to avoid allowing even so much as a toe to touch the goal line, even as his body is falling forward across the line while he attempts to swat the ball back out. If he succeeds then the ball can be downed inside the 5, but if his toe is touching the goalline when he contacts the ball, it's a touchback.

 

[renesauz]

The last part of this is the key, where it says "or his body touches the end zone". That's why you often see a player on the punting team trying to avoid allowing even so much as a toe to touch the goal line, even as his body is falling forward across the line while he attempts to swat the ball back out. If he succeeds then the ball can be downed inside the 5, but if his toe is touching the goalline when he contacts the ball, it's a touchback.

But the player who touches it also has to completely establish himself back into the filed of play in order to touch the ball and down it inside the five. IE: You can't jump OUT of the end zone to down it without first getting both feet down in the field of play.

 

[Wreckincrew]

The ball bounces on the two yard line and into the endzone, but does not hit the ground yet.

How is this possible?

Sorry - I get it now. The play is dead when the ref blows the whistle and I have never seen a ref blow a kick dead when the ball was still bouncing.

For example, my friend is arguing that a player cannot possibly dive from the 1 yd line and save a ball that has crossed the plane of the goal line that has not hit the ground yet. He is saying that once it breaks the plane, it is blown dead.

I think this is the ONLY time in NFL rules where "breaking the plane" is meaningless. There was a punt last week (Thanksgiving Day?) that came down right at the goalline and barely hit just on the opposite side of the end zone. It was so close that the kicking team challenged it saying it was a touchback. The replay clearly showed the ball above the goalline spinning around and just barely breaking the plane of the endzone several times, but when it hit the ground it just barely was in front of the goalline and then bounce up to the 1 or 2. The official review confirmed the ruling on the field that it was not a touchback when the replay showed that the ball broke the plane of the goalline (i.e. if this were a rushing play, the location of the ball would have been ruled a TD).

What? It was ruled a touchback because the punting team's player was on the goalline when he touched the ball. It had nothing to do with a spinning ball breaking the endzone plane.