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Here we go again.. I.E. Job situation (1 Viewer)

snogger

Footballguy
Sorry, long post coming... More of a "need to get something off my chest" post, but maybe you all can give me some advice..

As many here might recall I moved onto a new position in January with a new company.
Things were going very well, and I even managed to impress the CIO.. Then along came April and the announcement we were merging with another company.

Over the past 2 and half months I've gotten to know my Manager's boss and found he is a micro-manager, and that is putting it lightly.
It's to the point he wants to not only micro-manage my boss, but those of us that report to him.

He has admitted he knows very little, to nothing, about the Power Platform, for which I am "suppose" to be the manager of.
Yet questions every thing I propose like I'm out of my mind. It can take 2 or 3 meetings to layout the plans to get him onboard.

I've expressed my feelings to my Manager for the past month or so, and he thought we just needed to wait for the merger and things would change.. After 3 weeks of being one company, it has only gotten worse.
So I started listening to recruiters who came knocking.

Last week I had 2 separate interviews with a large (17,000+) company and by the end of the day of the 2nd interview, they let me know they were putting together an offer, and to expect it on Tuesday ( Today is a Holiday for them).

A lot of it is going to come down to what the offer is, but I am 90% sure that if I accept the offer, and word gets up to the CIO, the pressure to stay will come hard and fast.

The only way I could possibly see me staying is if they moved me out of reporting to the Micro-manager.. Which then you have to wonder what he would think/know about the why.. and of course if the money offer from the other company is substantial they'd need to come close to matching it.

To my main point of this long winded post...

I'm starting to feel a bit guilty about possibly moving on after only 6 months.. :oldunsure:
I know if I leave I am leaving them high and dry as the only other person here that knows anything about the Power Platform just started learning it in February.
At the same time, I haven't been happy during this transition over the past 2 months and am unsure if that would change even if they moved us to a different manager..

Any thoughts/advice??

 

gianmarco

Footballguy
Leave and tell them you can thank said manager for why


Your board persona suggests you’re a very reasonable and thoughtful person. Sounds like this job isn’t what they sold you on when hired. Life’s too short, do what’s best for you - no guilt necessary.


This.  And, IMO, they would have to offer you above what the other company offers you to stay.  Why stay for less AND be unhappy?

 

belljr

Footballguy
I got a new manager that is a micro manager last fall. Can't stand him, completely opposite of my old manager. If I wasn't locked in to such a cushy gig I would have left by now. Absolutely the worst

 

Dinsy Ejotuz

Footballguy
Leave and tell them you can thank said manager for why
Yeah, this one is easy.  

IMO, don't burn your bridges or anything, just let them know that with the merger you recognize that you haven't been able to align with some of the new management and figure they should have someone different in the role.

Once you do you're pot committed to the move though IMO.

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
Yeah, this one is easy.  

IMO, don't burn your bridges or anything, just let them know that with the merger you recognize that you haven't been able to align with some of the new management and figure they should have someone different in the role.

Once you do you're pot committed to the move though IMO.
this.

you've already spoken to your manager- I suppose you could always have another talk to further express this "lack of alignment" with the other management guy, and to be able to put a pretty bow on why you're accepting this new position after you've accepted it.

my boat- after a long, very strange recruitment period where I haven't been able to leave my current consulting gig due to an ever delayed timeline outside of my control, I'm finally starting as an employee again at a new spot after the 4th.

I wish I was feeling more jumpy&quo about it.

 

bro1ncos

IBL Representative
Take care of yourself first. If and when they ask why you are unhappy,  be honest.

Also, remember that there are very few companies anymore that are going to be loyal to you. They are going to what is best for the company.  I know it is hard to do but you showing loyalty to a company isn't doing anyone harm but yourself.

 

jobarules

Footballguy
Not sure why you would feel guilty. Something changed on their end. #### them. Seriously. No way would I want to keep working for a micro-manager.

 

Hawks64

Footballguy
All of the above are :goodposting:
You know what to do and should feel zero guilt about it. Companies aren't loyal to employees anymore, why should you feel loyalty to them?

 

snogger

Footballguy
Leave and tell them you can thank said manager for why
Yes, on my list of "Why's"..

Aren't you like 65 anyway? No need for loyalty
hey now, don't age me so fast :lol: .. Will be 55 this December..

I got a new manager that is a micro manager last fall. Can't stand him, completely opposite of my old manager. If I wasn't locked in to such a cushy gig I would have left by now. Absolutely the worst
Yea, was one of main things I told this company before I accepted the offer back in January when they asked "What is the one thing that can make you unhappy at a company".. Answer "Micro-Managers" .. Either you trust the people you hired to do the job, or you don't.. having each decision dragged through the coals to get to the results is nuts.

 

snogger

Footballguy
I wouldn't put yourself in an unhappy place because it might adversely affect their work. 

No need to sacrifice here if the job isn't rewarding and you're not enjoying it.


Your board persona suggests you’re a very reasonable and thoughtful person. Sounds like this job isn’t what they sold you on when hired. Life’s too short, do what’s best for you - no guilt necessary.


This.  And, IMO, they would have to offer you above what the other company offers you to stay.  Why stay for less AND be unhappy?
:thanks: Pretty much my wife's take.. "You felt this was going in the wrong direction 2+ months ago and it did." Go find a place that respects your work and makes you happy.

 

snogger

Footballguy
Yeah, this one is easy.  

IMO, don't burn your bridges or anything, just let them know that with the merger you recognize that you haven't been able to align with some of the new management and figure they should have someone different in the role.

Once you do you're pot committed to the move though IMO.
I always do my best not to burn bridges.. When I left my last company in January, one of the upper managers said "don't be surprised if in a year or two I come calling to see if you want to come back".
Thought about reaching out to him, but that would be more of a "I know what I had there" rather then a "I want to go back because I miss it" reason..

this.

you've already spoken to your manager- I suppose you could always have another talk to further express this "lack of alignment" with the other management guy, and to be able to put a pretty bow on why you're accepting this new position after you've accepted it.

my boat- after a long, very strange recruitment period where I haven't been able to leave my current consulting gig due to an ever delayed timeline outside of my control, I'm finally starting as an employee again at a new spot after the 4th.

I wish I was feeling more jumpy&quo about it.
Yea, really was hoping after 4 or5 conversations with him that things were not going good, my concerns, etc. that he'd take it up to the next level, which probably would have been the CIO.. But he didn't, he expressed his same uneasiness, but just kept saying "let's see what happens" .. :(

 

snogger

Footballguy
Take care of yourself first. If and when they ask why you are unhappy,  be honest.

Also, remember that there are very few companies anymore that are going to be loyal to you. They are going to what is best for the company.  I know it is hard to do but you showing loyalty to a company isn't doing anyone harm but yourself.


Not sure why you would feel guilty. Something changed on their end. #### them. Seriously. No way would I want to keep working for a micro-manager.


All of the above are :goodposting:
You know what to do and should feel zero guilt about it. Companies aren't loyal to employees anymore, why should you feel loyalty to them?
:thanks:

The main thing I've been asking myself over the last month or so was:

"Do you see yourself staying through retirement with this company"..

Back in March I probably would have said "Heck Yes" as they trusted me to do what was right in regards to managing the Power Platform and those that used it.

But for for the past 2 months the answer has been "Not looking likely".. so internal battle of wondering if I wait to see if things get better, or find a company that will respect my skill level and one I could see myself retiring from.

The company that is sending me an offer let me know the I am filling a position of someone that left for retirement, not a "net new" position, or one of someone that left disgruntled..  and the team I will be working with have been with the company for 10 or more years.

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
Yea, really was hoping after 4 or5 conversations with him that things were not going good, my concerns, etc. that he'd take it up to the next level, which probably would have been the CIO.. But he didn't, he expressed his same uneasiness, but just kept saying "let's see what happens" .. :(
the nice thing about this situation- you have the power to express why it's not working without the real fear of professional repercussions, since you have a foot out the door already. you never know- firmer language with stated exit on the horizon might help fix things there. 

but if you've only been there 6 months, it's not like you have a long history working with the guy you like- and let's be honest, he didn't do anything with the info you already gave him.

 

TLEF316

Footballguy
If my recent experiences tell me anything...its that companies are DESPERATE to keep good talent right now.  The "Great Resignation" is real right now and we as employees have the leverage. Obviously this could vary from company to company (and industry to industry) but it seems like good people basically just get to name their price.

One of the younger guys that I work with (not the same boss....i support their team in my role) got 2 promotions in 2 months. One to a "senior" title and then a "team lead". Another guy on the team left, it seems pretty clear that he either had an offer or just threatened to leave as well. Bang....2 promotions.  He's in his late 20's and while he's ok, he's not a "2 promotions in 2 months" kind of talent, IMO. They just can't afford to lose anyone.

My boss (who had spent like 15 years at our company. Her only job as far as I remember)  left back in December. They finally hired her replacement like 3 weeks ago. Last week, another member of our team (who has spent her entire career here and had family very high up in the company) got an offer and was out the door (our new boss even announced that she was leaving...awkward). Apparently they went back, shuffled some things around and found a sort of quasi-promotion for her. Now, as of this morning, she's my boss. (I report to her instead of the new guy) Again....she's smart and capable but nowhere near the point where she should have been promoted again.  

The 2nd one is a little annoying because there's really no reason I should be reporting to her (I'm more experienced overall and in this role. I answer all her questions...etc.). But for reasons I wont detail, I'm cool with it. It wont make my life any harder as she'll let me continue to do my thing with minimal supervision (because I dont really need it) But I guess my general point is that...now more than ever....if you're good at your job and have options, there's ZERO reason not to leverage them.

 

Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
Sorry, long post coming... More of a "need to get something off my chest" post, but maybe you all can give me some advice..

As many here might recall I moved onto a new position in January with a new company.
Things were going very well, and I even managed to impress the CIO.. Then along came April and the announcement we were merging with another company.

Over the past 2 and half months I've gotten to know my Manager's boss and found he is a micro-manager, and that is putting it lightly.
It's to the point he wants to not only micro-manage my boss, but those of us that report to him.

He has admitted he knows very little, to nothing, about the Power Platform, for which I am "suppose" to be the manager of.
Yet questions every thing I propose like I'm out of my mind. It can take 2 or 3 meetings to layout the plans to get him onboard.

I've expressed my feelings to my Manager for the past month or so, and he thought we just needed to wait for the merger and things would change.. After 3 weeks of being one company, it has only gotten worse.
So I started listening to recruiters who came knocking.

Last week I had 2 separate interviews with a large (17,000+) company and by the end of the day of the 2nd interview, they let me know they were putting together an offer, and to expect it on Tuesday ( Today is a Holiday for them).

A lot of it is going to come down to what the offer is, but I am 90% sure that if I accept the offer, and word gets up to the CIO, the pressure to stay will come hard and fast.

The only way I could possibly see me staying is if they moved me out of reporting to the Micro-manager.. Which then you have to wonder what he would think/know about the why.. and of course if the money offer from the other company is substantial they'd need to come close to matching it.

To my main point of this long winded post...

I'm starting to feel a bit guilty about possibly moving on after only 6 months.. :oldunsure:
I know if I leave I am leaving them high and dry as the only other person here that knows anything about the Power Platform just started learning it in February.
At the same time, I haven't been happy during this transition over the past 2 months and am unsure if that would change even if they moved us to a different manager..

Any thoughts/advice??
You gotta do what works for you. It’s obvious from your post that the current situation isn’t working for you. There is no reason to feel any guilt if you leave. 

 
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Major

Footballguy
Yeah, don't let guilt hold you back from furthering your career or happiness.  You don't owe the company anything and getting better offers only heightens your perceived value.  

 

MTskibum

Footballguy
He has admitted he knows very little, to nothing, about the Power Platform, for which I am "suppose" to be the manager of.

Any thoughts/advice??


Power BI?

Power automate?

etc?

Screw that, look to do something else, those platforms suck and I generally am a microsoft fanboy.

 

snogger

Footballguy
Power BI?

Power automate?

etc?

Screw that, look to do something else, those platforms suck and I generally am a microsoft fanboy.
:shrug:  Love the platform.. Been working with Power Apps and Power Automate now for 5 years.. Once you learn how to use it to connect to SAP, SQL, and other software outside of Microsoft it fully shines.. Most user couldn't work inside SAP, but by presenting the data in Power Apps makes it accessible to all.

 

snogger

Footballguy
Move on. The corporate world wouldn't think twice about dropping you if it suited them. 
Yea, been there, done that.. Was at a company for about 10 years and tried to expand my role to better help the company.
I was moved to a new Director and started working on projects he wanted to get in front of the CIO...
A year later about 500 people were laid off, including myself .. :(

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have just looked for opportunities outside that company instead of trying to move up inside it.

 

Brunell4MVP

Footballguy
Never ever give a reason for leaving.  Ever.  I ran HR for a  300+ person firm.  When someone gives a reason for leaving and 5 years later a company calls to check on hiring said person, I pretty much spit it out straight from the file because some of these people left before I was even there.  So if you say "didn't like management because of whatever", when a company calls and I verify your info and they ask whey'd they leave, all I could do was spit out what the file said.  One guy had said on the way out he "hated working more than 40 hours a week".  So, that's what the company asking got from us.  

Your job on the way out is not to solve or point out the company's problems.  And I can't believe people are saying to do it.   Do that while you are at the company.  Once you leave who cares.

Submit your resignation.  Say you got a better opportunity for your interest and family.  Leave quietly.

 

snogger

Footballguy
got the letter yet?
Just received it after a phone call. Going to review it with the wife.
I was able to get a response back from the manager regarding the exact expectations of the position and what I'd be doing..

The response falls in line with my career goals. :thumbup:

Offer is close to a $15k/year raise( + a $10,000 signing bonus).
Much better 401(k) where they match dollar for dollar up to 6% as well as kick in an additional 2%, and the yearly bonus is 14% to 28% depending on my performance and the companies.

Also, I was able to negotiate keeping my end of July Canada vacation plans and get it paid for by them even. Pretty cool considering that if I except the offer, I'd only be employed for 2 weeks prior to that.

99% sure I'm going to make the move.. Just want to discuss a little with the wife on pros vs. cons..

 
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titusbramble

Footballguy
Sounds like what HR is permitted to do in relation to references is a lot wider in the US compared to elsewhere per the above (Brunell's) post. That would likely be illegal here.

OP - first responder has it spot on. Hand in notice, tell them why.

 

snogger

Footballguy
Sounds like what HR is permitted to do in relation to references is a lot wider in the US compared to elsewhere per the above (Brunell's) post. That would likely be illegal here.

OP - first responder has it spot on. Hand in notice, tell them why.
My Manager knows how I feel so although it will be a shock that I got an offer so quick, it won't be completely out of the blue that I haven't been happy over the past month or so.
Going to leave it short and sweet that the position has changed compared to what I joined as and I needed to make a move that would be good for my family..

Whether he chooses to include the "Didn't want to be micro-managed to the point of asking if it was OK to go to the bathroom" part is up to him ;)

 
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fruity pebbles

Footballguy
Just received it after a phone call. Going to review it with the wife.
I was able to get a response back from the manager regarding the exact expectations of the position and what I'd be doing..

The response falls in line with my career goals. :thumbup:

Offer is close to a $15k/year raise( + a $10,000 signing bonus).
Much better 401(k) where they match dollar for dollar up to 6% as well as kick in an additional 2%, and the yearly bonus is 14% to 28% depending on my performance and the companies.

Also, I was able to negotiate keeping my end of July Canada vacation plans and get it paid for by them even. Pretty cool considering that if I except the offer, I'd only be employed for 2 weeks prior to that.

99% sure I'm going to make the move.. Just want to discuss a little with the wife on pros vs. cons..
seems like a no brainer

 

Hawks64

Footballguy
Just received it after a phone call. Going to review it with the wife.
I was able to get a response back from the manager regarding the exact expectations of the position and what I'd be doing..

The response falls in line with my career goals. :thumbup:

Offer is close to a $15k/year raise( + a $10,000 signing bonus).
Much better 401(k) where they match dollar for dollar up to 6% as well as kick in an additional 2%, and the yearly bonus is 14% to 28% depending on my performance and the companies.

Also, I was able to negotiate keeping my end of July Canada vacation plans and get it paid for by them even. Pretty cool considering that if I except the offer, I'd only be employed for 2 weeks prior to that.

99% sure I'm going to make the move.. Just want to discuss a little with the wife on pros vs. cons..
Absolute no brainer to make the move, congrats!!

 

Gopher State

Footballguy
This is 2022 no one stays a job more then a few years, move on to the new job with an eye to the next job always open.

 

Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
Sounds like what HR is permitted to do in relation to references is a lot wider in the US compared to elsewhere per the above (Brunell's) post. That would likely be illegal here.

OP - first responder has it spot on. Hand in notice, tell them why.
It varies from company to company. Mine — and several others I or friends have worked for — will only confirm the dates the person worked at the company. They will not divulge any other information. This is to avoid having people sue the company alleging career sabotage.

 

TLEF316

Footballguy
One time the company I left told the place I was going my salary.....down to the dollar. I had embellished by a little bit (like I imagine most do) and the hiring company almost pulled my offer.(technically they consideredit a failed background check) Thankfully I knew someone very high up (c suite) and we worked it out.

They literally told me that they were pulling my offer because I had added on 7k to what I was making and their threshold was 5k. And ironically, the company I was leaving had offered me a 10k raise to stay. (New company gave me a 40 percent bump, so that counter didnt move the needle for me) So it wasn't even really an embellishment.

Turned our the job at the new company sucked anyway and I want back like 18 months later.

 
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Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
While I understand the urge some of the posters here feel to go scorched-earth, don't do it if you're gonna continue working. Those HR/management folks can jump as easily as you can, and you never know if you'll run across them again where they have a say. Put your notice in and ease on out.

 

snogger

Footballguy
Offer accepted.. As starting date isn't until July 11th, going to wait on putting in my notice until Friday.

Good news ......I found out the Micro-Manager is going to be on vacation next week, and possibly some of the following week.

So if all works out well I will only have to deal with him for half a week before :bye:

 

Beef Ravioli

Footballguy
Offer accepted.. As starting date isn't until July 11th, going to wait on putting in my notice until Friday.

Good news ......I found out the Micro-Manager is going to be on vacation next week, and possibly some of the following week.

So if all works out well I will only have to deal with him for half a week before :bye:
Will you not give your current company an opportunity to counter offer? 

 

snogger

Footballguy
Will you not give your current company an opportunity to counter offer? 
 At this point, any time the Micro-manager starts questioning/talking in a meeting it is like finger nails on a chalkboard. 

So, they'd have to move us to a different senior manager, and also top the offer as the bonus and 401(k) are much better.

If not for the merger I probably would have retired here, but just not feeling it is the right place now. :(

Had I known in January what I know now I would have accepted the matched offer from my previous employer.

 

Dawg Pound 69

Footballguy
You are better off leaving if the other offer is decent. When employees turn in their notice and are talked into staying (usually with more $), they usually end up leaving anyway within 6 months. Often not voluntarily. Your current employer would likely begin searching for your replacement. And once that person is found, you will be shown the door. Have seen it happen so many times at multiple companies.

Even if that doesn't happen, chances are your job dissatisfaction will remain at the level it's currently at. And if your company was the acquiree rather than the acquiror, then you guys will be treated like a step-child.

 

skol asylum

Footballguy
Just received it after a phone call. Going to review it with the wife.
I was able to get a response back from the manager regarding the exact expectations of the position and what I'd be doing..

The response falls in line with my career goals. :thumbup:

Offer is close to a $15k/year raise( + a $10,000 signing bonus).
Much better 401(k) where they match dollar for dollar up to 6% as well as kick in an additional 2%, and the yearly bonus is 14% to 28% depending on my performance and the companies.

Also, I was able to negotiate keeping my end of July Canada vacation plans and get it paid for by them even. Pretty cool considering that if I except the offer, I'd only be employed for 2 weeks prior to that.

99% sure I'm going to make the move.. Just want to discuss a little with the wife on pros vs. cons..
I'm in the wrong career.

 

skol asylum

Footballguy
This is 2022 no one stays a job more then a few years, move on to the new job with an eye to the next job always open.
Coming up in 24 years with the same company, though a few different positions including a possible layoff that turned into a move across country and a RIF that turned into a move closer to home with the same position title pay etc.

 

snogger

Footballguy
You are better off leaving if the other offer is decent. When employees turn in their notice and are talked into staying (usually with more $), they usually end up leaving anyway within 6 months. Often not voluntarily. Your current employer would likely begin searching for your replacement. And once that person is found, you will be shown the door. Have seen it happen so many times at multiple companies.

Even if that doesn't happen, chances are your job dissatisfaction will remain at the level it's currently at. And if your company was the acquiree rather than the acquiror, then you guys will be treated like a step-child.
Funny you say "treated like a step-child" as that is exactly what I told my manager and he even agreed.

He was from the other company, the team under him currently consists of 15 from his old company, and us 5.

Which made it even more upsetting that he didn't do anything to try and make things better. :thumbdown:

 

snogger

Footballguy
Coming up in 24 years with the same company, though a few different positions including a possible layoff that turned into a move across country and a RIF that turned into a move closer to home with the same position title pay etc.
Some companies are that way. This Team I'm joining has people that have all been there over 10 years.. one is close to 20. The person that left had been there 25 years. That certainly helped me with my decision. :thumbup:

 
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skol asylum

Footballguy
:lol:

I am glad I jumped into learning the Power Platform when it first came out 5 years ago.

Between the "raise" I received moving to my current company in January, and this "raise" with this offer, my salary has increased 40k since December. :eek:
I have no doubt that I'm underpaid for my position and experience. I also get to WFH full time and have flexibility with no micromanaging. I've also been a little too afraid or whatever to push myself and put myself out there. Worried that the grass may be greener elsewhere because their are dogs ####ting everywhere there. You never know what you're gonna get.

 

Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
You are better off leaving if the other offer is decent. When employees turn in their notice and are talked into staying (usually with more $), they usually end up leaving anyway within 6 months. Often not voluntarily. Your current employer would likely begin searching for your replacement. And once that person is found, you will be shown the door. Have seen it happen so many times at multiple companies.
Exactly. I had a bad experience with this as well. Got an offer from a competitor, let my current place beat it and stayed -- they created a new position for me. Two years later, the company was sold and everyone who was responsible for keeping me there either left or got reassigned. A year after that, the Great Recession hit, and the people now in charge, who had nothing to do with the decisions to keep me or to create the new position, saw no need for that position to exist anymore and let me go. 

 

Hawks64

Footballguy
 At this point, any time the Micro-manager starts questioning/talking in a meeting it is like finger nails on a chalkboard. 

So, they'd have to move us to a different senior manager, and also top the offer as the bonus and 401(k) are much better.

If not for the merger I probably would have retired here, but just not feeling it is the right place now. :(

Had I known in January what I know now I would have accepted the matched offer from my previous employer.
Good thing you didn't, that doesn't work out well too often.

 

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