Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Herm states that there will be about a 60/40 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gocats
- Start date
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
Just got him off waivers for 50 z bucks and at the same time another owner paid 950 z bucks for Noah Herron. 
Reality Football
Footballguy
Dee Brown will also cure cancer, but will only don the labcoat after scoring his 29th TD of the season and giving CPR to a choking baby in the endzone!
The Jerk
Footballguy
I must be having technical difficulties. I cannot find exactly where Herm is quoted describing his 60/40 plan.My version just says "You're lucky if one guy gets 300 carries." I think this is an acknowledgement of NFL reality after watching Curtis Martin get injured last year. Martin's touches fell to 250 after numbering 419 and 374 the previous two seasons. Maybe you're just550-300=250 carries for the backup? Did Dee Browns stock just go up or what? I mean Holmes is done, no way he comes back, and if he does he'll be promply put back on IR like every year. Dee Brown
but this seems like typical pre-training camp coachspeak that underscores the very real possibility of injury. Johnson should get 25 touches a game at minimum, almost precisely what Martin got from 2003-04.
joffer
Footballguy
trade down, he'll be there at 1.05I just moved Dee Brown up to 1.02 on my cheatsheet550-300=250 carries for the backup? Did Dee Browns stock just go up or what? I mean Holmes is done, no way he comes back, and if he does he'll be promply put back on IR like every year. Dee Brown
M
MLBrandow
Guest
Dee Brown moves up to 10 rd?
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Not if I have the 1.04 pick.trade down, he'll be there at 1.05I just moved Dee Brown up to 1.02 on my cheatsheet550-300=250 carries for the backup? Did Dee Browns stock just go up or what? I mean Holmes is done, no way he comes back, and if he does he'll be promply put back on IR like every year. Dee Brown
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Every year coaches come up with "new math" on how many carries people will or won't get, and very rarely do they come close to what they say. Portis was going to get limited to 15 carries a game in Washington. The Cowboys were going to run the ball 35 times a game last year. The Rams were going to commit more to the run last year. Chester Taylor could get 30 touches a game this year. It's all just talk, as 99% of the time these statements do not pan out at all.
Crimedogg32
Footballguy
sounds like the randy ratio
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Of the Chiefs' 520 carries last year, 37 went to QBs, 14 to WRs, and 13 to RBs other than LJ and the Priest. So even if LJ rushes for only 300 carries (not likely) and the Chiefs run 550 times (not likely), that doesn't mean Dee Brown gets 250 carries.
broncofan13000
Footballguy
I just moved Dee Brown up to 1.02 on my cheatsheet550-300=250 carries for the backup? Did Dee Browns stock just go up or what? I mean Holmes is done, no way he comes back, and if he does he'll be promply put back on IR like every year. Dee Brown
hankey2mlh
Footballguy
Jason Wood is projecting 724 fantasy points for Dee Brown... 
BigRed
Footballguy
First thx for a post that isn't yet another tee hee/gigglefest.
Your point is well taken, but there's little doubt that KC will run a great deal once again. Given their personnel, it's a no-brainer. The question is Priest's health, which still is very up in the air near as I can tell. Basically I wouldn't exactly be worried about the lack of carries for LJ regardless.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Herm Edwards said in five consecutive pre-seasons that the Jets were going to run Curtis Martin less this year, and the Jets were going to throw the ball deep more often. Herm didn't do so well on those predictions.
Herm admits that his pre-seasons goals are lofty and that when the game is on the line those things become irrelevant.
Herm admits that his pre-seasons goals are lofty and that when the game is on the line those things become irrelevant.
The Jacket
Footballguy
Further, it's very unlikely that a player of Dee Brown's caliber will assume so many of the carries. I expect the Chiefs to run the ball around 500 times, and I expect Johnson to get around 350 of them.That leaves 150, but note that things such as wide receiver reverses, fullback dives, quarterback scrambles, etc., are rushing attempts. I estimate that the backup running backs will have between 120 and 130 carries, and I think Brown will see only 75-80 percent of those. Go easy with drafting him. It wouldn't surprise me if he had less than 300 yards and only a touchdown or two. For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me if he was cut.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
I don't think so. He'll be eaten alive by STL if NO decides to reel in one of the bites.And if somehow he escapes STL, he'll get swooped up by MIA.
You guys don't believe in Dee Brown? I'd barely heard of the guy until the "worst case scenario: LJ" thread, but I think the guy could have legitimate RB3/flex value this season if they really plan on keeping LJ under 400 touches (recept included).
Rovers
Footballguy
I pulled this off a Chiefs message board. It's a very long article, but it was written by Joe Posnanski of the Kanas City Star, but sorry, no link. Words of wisdom from Herm:
He switches topics again, and like one song blending into another, he talks about the Chiefs. “The thing about the Chiefs is everybody needs to understand the job. The job of the offense is not to score points. The job of the defense is not to stop the other team from scoring points. You understand, Coach? That’s what people think it’s about. That’s the way this team was playing. But that’s not what the job is.” Behind him, there are the cracks and laughter of kids playing pool.
“The job,” he says, “is to win. That’s all. Everybody’s heard me say that. You play to win the game (it is even the name of his book), but nobody knows what I mean by that. What I mean is, sometimes scoring 30 points is worse than scoring 20 points because you score too quickly, and your defense is on the field all day and can’t stop anybody in the fourth quarter. You understand me, Coach?
“I mean sometimes our defense has to stop the other team deep in their territory so Dante Hall will be in position to get a punt return. I mean sometimes our offense needs to hold the ball for 6 minutes to give our defense a break. I mean it all has to work together. Everybody has to work to win. That’s the whole thing.”
This doesn't seem to be a widely held offensive philosphy in the NFL.... thank God. I am sooooooo glad Hermie is someone else's problem now. Sure, it's a bad thing to score too fast. Yep, sounds like the Herman Edwards I know.
He switches topics again, and like one song blending into another, he talks about the Chiefs. “The thing about the Chiefs is everybody needs to understand the job. The job of the offense is not to score points. The job of the defense is not to stop the other team from scoring points. You understand, Coach? That’s what people think it’s about. That’s the way this team was playing. But that’s not what the job is.” Behind him, there are the cracks and laughter of kids playing pool.
“The job,” he says, “is to win. That’s all. Everybody’s heard me say that. You play to win the game (it is even the name of his book), but nobody knows what I mean by that. What I mean is, sometimes scoring 30 points is worse than scoring 20 points because you score too quickly, and your defense is on the field all day and can’t stop anybody in the fourth quarter. You understand me, Coach?
“I mean sometimes our defense has to stop the other team deep in their territory so Dante Hall will be in position to get a punt return. I mean sometimes our offense needs to hold the ball for 6 minutes to give our defense a break. I mean it all has to work together. Everybody has to work to win. That’s the whole thing.”
This doesn't seem to be a widely held offensive philosphy in the NFL.... thank God. I am sooooooo glad Hermie is someone else's problem now. Sure, it's a bad thing to score too fast. Yep, sounds like the Herman Edwards I know.
Last edited by a moderator:
M
MLBrandow
Guest
2001: 10-6 (WC2 in a division with SB Champs Pats 11-5, Dolphins 11-5 WC1)2002: 9-7 (Won Division after starting 1-4)
2003: 6-10 (Pennington injured in preseason)
2004: 10-6 (WC1 with SB Champ 14-2 Pats)
2005: 4-12 (lost QB1&2 in week 3 in the same drive, then his RB1&2 after guys were stacking 11 guys in the box.)
Despite having the 31st ranked offense last year, he still managed to coach a 12th ranked defense.
I'd take a coach who leads his team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and 100% of the time when he doesn't lose his starting QB at the beginning of the season.
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
Noah Herron 950 z bucks
Dee Brown 50 z bucks (Me)
Dee Brown 50 z bucks (Me)
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
???I think the only thing that matters to the Saints is getting a 3rd round or higher draft pick for MBennett. Otherwise they keep him.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Herm's not as bad as Rovers indicated nor as good as you seem to suggest. Don't forget that in all three years the Jets made the playoffs, they were very close to missing the playoffs:2001: John Hall kicks a 53 yard FG with 59 seconds left, Jets win 24-22. Hall misses, the Jets are out of the playoffs. More importantly, Herm made one of the all time biggest coaching blunders the week before, as the Jets lost to the 2-12 Bills.2001: 10-6 (WC2 in a division with SB Champs Pats 11-5, Dolphins 11-5 WC1)2002: 9-7 (Won Division after starting 1-4)
2003: 6-10 (Pennington injured in preseason)
2004: 10-6 (WC1 with SB Champ 14-2 Pats)
2005: 4-12 (lost QB1&2 in week 3 in the same drive, then his RB1&2 after guys were stacking 11 guys in the box.)
Despite having the 31st ranked offense last year, he still managed to coach a 12th ranked defense.
I'd take a coach who leads his team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and 100% of the time when he doesn't lose his starting QB at the beginning of the season.
2002: If the Patriots don't score 11 points in the final three minutes against the Dolphins, and then kick a FG in overtime, the Jets miss the playoffs.
2004: If the Steelers third string doesn't win @ Buffalo in week 17, the Jets probably miss the playoffs.
The Jets were a borderline playoff team each of Edwards' three seasons. He's an excellent motivator but a bad Xs and Os guy who knows little about offense. He wore out his welcome in NY and it was beneficial for both sides to move on.
Rovers
Footballguy
I could go into a long litany about why Edwards was in fact, much worse than I indicated. Whenever things went wrong, Edwards wasted no time in finding people to throw under the bus. From coordinators to players. Can someone tell me what competent NFL HC has a 34 year old center, and no backup? Or why he'd allow a kneel down call, intentionally losing 2 yards for a FG kicker that already missed from that disatnce in a playoff game? Look at what he said. It isn't good to score fast because the D will get tired. The man is a lunatic. Now, why would his defense get tired? Because he ran soft camps. Great way to compensate.... don't score. Just how bad is Edwards as a game day coach? He was at least smart enough to know he was stupid, so he hired an asst coach to manage the clock. Only problem was, #### Curl was just as clueless as Herm.Herm's not as bad as Rovers indicated nor as good as you seem to suggest. Don't forget that in all three years the Jets made the playoffs, they were very close to missing the playoffs:2001: John Hall kicks a 53 yard FG with 59 seconds left, Jets win 24-22. Hall misses, the Jets are out of the playoffs. More importantly, Herm made one of the all time biggest coaching blunders the week before, as the Jets lost to the 2-12 Bills.2001: 10-6 (WC2 in a division with SB Champs Pats 11-5, Dolphins 11-5 WC1)2002: 9-7 (Won Division after starting 1-4)
2003: 6-10 (Pennington injured in preseason)
2004: 10-6 (WC1 with SB Champ 14-2 Pats)
2005: 4-12 (lost QB1&2 in week 3 in the same drive, then his RB1&2 after guys were stacking 11 guys in the box.)
Despite having the 31st ranked offense last year, he still managed to coach a 12th ranked defense.
I'd take a coach who leads his team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and 100% of the time when he doesn't lose his starting QB at the beginning of the season.
2002: If the Patriots don't score 11 points in the final three minutes against the Dolphins, and then kick a FG in overtime, the Jets miss the playoffs.
2004: If the Steelers third string doesn't win @ Buffalo in week 17, the Jets probably miss the playoffs.
The Jets were a borderline playoff team each of Edwards' three seasons. He's an excellent motivator but a bad Xs and Os guy who knows little about offense. He wore out his welcome in NY and it was beneficial for both sides to move on.
A BIG part of the Jets implosion was Edwards' fault. Now, is someone going to tell me getting Vinny Testaverde off the couch was a smart move? Or playing Martin on one knee, when he later admitted he never should have sent Martin out there with torn ligaments in his knee for at least several games? Or sending Pennington back out there AFTER the second shoulder injury in the same game? I can make this a 1000 word post, and still have material.
But.... he is entertaining. The "Micheal Vick is a chicken" speech was a great one. I will enjoy his speeches much more, now that he is the HC somewhere else. I wonder if he is going to tell LJ to fall down after a twenty yard run. Don't wanna score too fast, ya know!
Last spring+summer Dee Brown, McKenzie Smith, Quentin Griffin, and Samkon Gado(yep Chief in the spring) were all Chiefs. Which one was on the Chiefs roster all last year?Did Dee Browns stock just go up or what? I mean Holmes is done, no way he comes back, and if he does he'll be promply put back on IR like every year.
Dee Brown
The Jacket
Footballguy
Why bother?For every word you speak bad of Edwards, anyone could quadruple that about the Jets and their players, who, lets be real here, suck. A few nice players here and there, but the team lacks talent. Bill Walsh wouldn't be able to coach that team we saw last year to anywhere but the basement. Edwards' resume (read: accomplishments, not bitter Jets fans' opinions) is impressive given the team he coached in New York. Move a bunch of miles West and he's now with a much better team. In fact, a team that's 27 points better. Unless, of course, you count the garbage-time touchdown the Jets scored against the Chiefs back in week one. It's easy to say, "Edwards doesn't know offense". Could well be, and probably is, true. But Edwards has never had a running back, quarterback, tight end or offensive line like he will have in 2006. It's a little easier to "know offense" when you have great players.
Edwards inheritted a line that had Curtis be the 2nd leading rusher in the NFL and Vinny had some superlow number like 5-10 sacks or somesuch. That was an excellent line and he(and the GM) messed with it. They also had Mawae who IMO is a future HOFer and probably better than any single Chiefs lineman though with Roaf it might be debatable to some. Curtis is a HOFer, LJ is not. IMO Tony G is far better. Pennington was super accurate and a rising star in the NFL, not Herm's fault he threw out his shoulder. Santana Moss-look how he did in Washington. That's way better than any Chiefs WR has done in year(Jets one too for that matter)I'm not saying the Jets had a great O or a comparable one. I just think you sold them short. IMO they had alot to work with.
They ran well under him. Martin probably averaged being the 2nd leading rusher in the NFL under him. I'm very confident LJ will also have a ton of success. Passing.....well this is where I think ya beat up on Herm.
The Jacket
Footballguy
"Debateable to some"? Mawae is not in Roaf's league, nor Will Shields in terms of career accomplishments. In terms of right now? Brian Waters has him beat by a large margin, too.
Johnson is elite right now, Martin is not. Martin hasn't had a season in his entire career that matches what Johnson did last year.
I sold them for what they were -- not near as good as the Chiefs. Like I said, it's easier to "know offense" when you've got multiple Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers.2005 Chiefs offensive Pro Bowlers -- 62005 Jets offensive Pro Bowlers -- 0In the end, all I'm saying is that Edwards is working off of a new slate with a new team. His challenge to put a successful offensive product on the field will not be near as tough as it was in New York. On the other hand, it'll be more of a challenge for him to field a successful defense.
massraider
Footballguy
I think Herm has every intention of doing a 60/40 split, but it's like Paul Brown said about why he ran Jim Brown so much:
"When you have a big gun, you shoot it."
As a Raider fan, I hope he spilts it 60/40, I really do. But I don't think he will.
"When you have a big gun, you shoot it."
As a Raider fan, I hope he spilts it 60/40, I really do. But I don't think he will.
Reaper
Footballguy
These words out of Herm's mouth will make most Jet fans Explode into laughter OR Cry.Curtis Martin could have had both legs lost on the way to the stadium and the guy was going to get fed the ball.... Down by 20, Feed it to Martin... Locked out of the playoffs, down by 27, Martin injured - FEED it to Martin.....
I'm convinced Herm is one of the bigger Boobs in the game. There was no reason for Jordan not to get fed the ball a ton a few years back or for Houston not to get the ball a ton last year but, there was always some kind of Martin Milestone or some reason that Herm would say "The Veteran must get fed the ball"..... Guy is all talk.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
If they really run the ball 550x total, a 60/x/x split isn't that far fetched.
LJ had 65% of their total rushing attempts last year. If the remaining carries are consolidated into a backup, as opposed to spread out between 2 or 3 guys, great.
LJ had 65% of their total rushing attempts last year. If the remaining carries are consolidated into a backup, as opposed to spread out between 2 or 3 guys, great.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
As borderline a playoff team as they were, they still won a playoff game 2 of the 3 times they went there under Edwards.Had it not been for multiple missed kicks by Doug Brien, they would've been in the AFC Championship game in 2004.Herm's not as bad as Rovers indicated nor as good as you seem to suggest. Don't forget that in all three years the Jets made the playoffs, they were very close to missing the playoffs:2001: John Hall kicks a 53 yard FG with 59 seconds left, Jets win 24-22. Hall misses, the Jets are out of the playoffs. More importantly, Herm made one of the all time biggest coaching blunders the week before, as the Jets lost to the 2-12 Bills.2001: 10-6 (WC2 in a division with SB Champs Pats 11-5, Dolphins 11-5 WC1)2002: 9-7 (Won Division after starting 1-4)
2003: 6-10 (Pennington injured in preseason)
2004: 10-6 (WC1 with SB Champ 14-2 Pats)
2005: 4-12 (lost QB1&2 in week 3 in the same drive, then his RB1&2 after guys were stacking 11 guys in the box.)
Despite having the 31st ranked offense last year, he still managed to coach a 12th ranked defense.
I'd take a coach who leads his team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and 100% of the time when he doesn't lose his starting QB at the beginning of the season.
2002: If the Patriots don't score 11 points in the final three minutes against the Dolphins, and then kick a FG in overtime, the Jets miss the playoffs.
2004: If the Steelers third string doesn't win @ Buffalo in week 17, the Jets probably miss the playoffs.
The Jets were a borderline playoff team each of Edwards' three seasons. He's an excellent motivator but a bad Xs and Os guy who knows little about offense. He wore out his welcome in NY and it was beneficial for both sides to move on.
I think he's a lot better than he is given credit for.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I agree with you, but this is interesting at the same time.I think that Jordan could've sealed the deal against the Steelers in 2004 because he appeared to be running much better @ that point in the season.
However, Herm gets second guessed no matter what if they lose.
If he gives it to Martin and they miss some field goals, he gets questioned for not running with Jordan more.
If he gives it to Jordan and Jordan fumbles or gets stuffed or does better and Brien STILL misses the field goals, he gets questioned for not giving the ball more to the regular season rushing leader.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
WE DON'T DO MATH. WE PLAY THE GAME TO WIN
The Jacket
Footballguy
You make a good point, but the thing to keep in mind is that no backup the Chiefs have in 2006 will come close to what they had in previous years. Johnson is going to have to carry the load, because whoever else gets the opportunity is probably going to waste it; at least in comparison to what Johnson would've done with it.Even if Priest Holmes returns, is he really going to be the "great backup" that some people would only naturally assume? I don't think so. And for that reason, I don't see enough talent to take 40% of the Chiefs' total rushing attempts away from Johnson.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The Jets had quality teams in 2002 and 2004 when they made the playoffs. The 2004 team was very good IMO, but not great. Making the AFCC game is nice and all, but what does it mean? Even the biggest Jets homer knows that they would have been crushed in NE that week. All Brien's missed FGs saved was some embarrassment.Herm's a great motivator, but don't underestimate that he's made some very poor decisions. Maybe it's just me, but when a coach does something so unbelievably stupid, it's hard for me to think that highly of him. Edwards' decision to kick the ball to start off both halves against the Bills in 2001 nearly cost the Jets a playoff spot, and is worse (but not nearly as celebrated) than Mornhinweg's decision to kickoff to start OT.As borderline a playoff team as they were, they still won a playoff game 2 of the 3 times they went there under Edwards.Had it not been for multiple missed kicks by Doug Brien, they would've been in the AFC Championship game in 2004.Herm's not as bad as Rovers indicated nor as good as you seem to suggest. Don't forget that in all three years the Jets made the playoffs, they were very close to missing the playoffs:2001: John Hall kicks a 53 yard FG with 59 seconds left, Jets win 24-22. Hall misses, the Jets are out of the playoffs. More importantly, Herm made one of the all time biggest coaching blunders the week before, as the Jets lost to the 2-12 Bills.2001: 10-6 (WC2 in a division with SB Champs Pats 11-5, Dolphins 11-5 WC1)2002: 9-7 (Won Division after starting 1-4)
2003: 6-10 (Pennington injured in preseason)
2004: 10-6 (WC1 with SB Champ 14-2 Pats)
2005: 4-12 (lost QB1&2 in week 3 in the same drive, then his RB1&2 after guys were stacking 11 guys in the box.)
Despite having the 31st ranked offense last year, he still managed to coach a 12th ranked defense.
I'd take a coach who leads his team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and 100% of the time when he doesn't lose his starting QB at the beginning of the season.
2002: If the Patriots don't score 11 points in the final three minutes against the Dolphins, and then kick a FG in overtime, the Jets miss the playoffs.
2004: If the Steelers third string doesn't win @ Buffalo in week 17, the Jets probably miss the playoffs.
The Jets were a borderline playoff team each of Edwards' three seasons. He's an excellent motivator but a bad Xs and Os guy who knows little about offense. He wore out his welcome in NY and it was beneficial for both sides to move on.
I think he's a lot better than he is given credit for.
Herm gets some things, and doesn't get others. He ended up with a losing record as HC of the Jets. You can bring up the playoff stats all you want, but you can't ignore the horrific 2005 that Jets fans had to suffer through.
The Jacket
Footballguy
He who accomplishes something in the postseason is greater than he who accomplishes something in the regular season.I'll take 10 wins and a playoff win over 13+ wins and a playoff one-and-done.
Sure you can't. It's tough to ignore a season in which your top quarterback, second quarterback, running back, among other key players, all go down with injuries.It's entertaining when people bag on Edwards for the 2005 Jets, but remember this: Vince Lombardi couldn't coach a team to any success with third-stringers lining up as starters and, more importantly than anything else, at the quarterback position.I'd love to see a list of teams that have made the playoffs after losing their top two quarterbacks due to injury (not bad performance; injury). It'll be short.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I didn't ask for the Jets to make the playoffs. I asked for Herm to not quit on the team and for the Jets to win more than 3 of their first 15 fifteen games. I think Vince Lombardi could have done that. Big difference between a 4-12 season and an 8-8 season. If you don't see that, that's fine.
And if you want to give Herm the excuse for the injuries, you can't credit him as much for the Jets making the playoffs with a very talented team in 2004.
Last edited by a moderator:
