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Herm to Tampa? (1 Viewer)

Bri

Footballguy
SNIP

If the Aztecs are going to acquire an exciting name for their new head coach, it might require them to overpay for Mason or go after Edwards, who last Friday avoided discussing any job opportunity at San Diego State. When Doug Tucker of the Associated Press asked Edwards about bolting to the college ranks a few days later, the Chiefs’ Head Coach was again silent.

But now a report has surfaced that Edwards might have another option that would land him elsewhere in the NFL if Chiefs Chairman of the Board Clark Hunt chooses to dump him with one year left on his contract.

With the hiring of Kiffin at Tennessee, ESPN reported that Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin will join his son. That has led some to speculate that Edwards, who spent five seasons on Tony Dungy’s staff in Tampa Bay, would be in line to become Kiffin’s successor.

According to one of our team sources, Edwards is hoping for a return to Kansas City next year, and most feel that Hunt will give him one more year to right the ship. But at some point Hunt has to decide if he wants to give Edwards a contract extension. If both San Diego State and Tampa Bay present themselves as options, Hunt might need to make an offer sooner rather than later.

The question for Edwards is if he’ll use the Aztecs and Bucs as leverage to avoid the situation he was in during his final days in New York. He might want to make a few adjustments to his coaching staff, and it’ll be difficult to add any new faces if the head coach is working under a one-year deal.

And if he’s going to get the Chiefs back to the playoffs, Edwards might want some assurances that he’ll have more than a single year to accomplish that.

http://kan.scout.com/2/817408.html

 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.

 
why would the Chiefs fire their coach in a complete rebuilding mode. Herm is actually doing a good job IMO. The Chiefs could contend in the AFC West next year if Thiggy continues to tear it up...which has amazed me cause Herm doesn't typically air it out. Herm really enjoys coaching these young guys, and I think he'll stay if possible

 
why would the Chiefs fire their coach in a complete rebuilding mode. Herm is actually doing a good job IMO. The Chiefs could contend in the AFC West next year if Thiggy continues to tear it up...which has amazed me cause Herm doesn't typically air it out. Herm really enjoys coaching these young guys, and I think he'll stay if possible
A few things-The Chiefs are currently lucky to be in the worst division in football. The Chargers and Broncos are very likely better teams than they've shown at (many) times this year. Thigpen has looked very good recently but that doesn't change how long Herm has been there or his record during that time. His record stinks.The Chiefs, IMO, have some excellent young talent. Of course they have yet another draft in April. They are in a rare position wherein they could really have a dynasty building here if every youngster pans out. They don't, they just never do. Is Herm the coach that can react to that and adjust accordingly? Is he the one to mold all these youngsters? I often forget how talented Derrick Johnson is. Measurables wise, he's one of the top guys in the NFL. You watch him play and he is simply not much better than he was as a rook-some weeks he's far worse. In theory, you can't have this great talent and not be able to teach it, train it, use it and still stay an NFL coach. It happens. Not every great talent or very good talent pans out(Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich etc). Is it Derrick's fault or Herm's? Then I think you move onto the next young player and....eventually you get a grade in your head as to how Herm is dealing with the youngsters.It's tricky. Thigpen would have been a waste of time IMO til just recently and now Herm's wise for being patient with him. Croyle's never won a game. BadKolby and Jamaal look good. Good.Hunt's gotta have a grade or rating system or somesuch in his head as to how Herm's doing and it's a fairly crucial time for that franchise because they have so much young talent that hopefully is about to start producing.The theory is that Herm will get offers and use them as leverage-leverage he may or may not have depending on Hunt's grade for him. I mean, picture yourself a boss and a not so good worker says he's going to some other job or else? then imagine it where it's a very good worker. Herm took over a playoff team that went 9-7. He's been 4-12 and now 2-10 since. Player turnover has been huge and they lost some special ones so some dropoff was predictable, this much of a dropoff though? That can be spun as he's not a winner or the down-time was expected.If Herm does have a spot in tampa or SD state available, Hunt can probably start anew without any bitterness.
 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.
go back? He was never a coordinator.
assistant head coach in charge of the defense is only not DC in title, a word game. There were so many quality coaches on defense in Tampa that each had an impact, that Dungy -the HC and manager of the assistant coaches- gets credit for, as he should. IIRC Herm was quite the opposite personality to Dungy yet they were buddies and thus people felt like they made a great duo-one's strength was the other's weakness.

 
I keep hearing this Kiffin talk, but if he didn't join up with Lane in Oakland why would he do it in college?
They already had Ryan. Kiffin has a good gig ($$) but lets face it, coaching in college is a bit less stressful and time consuming versus the NFL. He's 68, going to Tenn. would be like retiring and going to work as a Walmart greeter. :goodposting:
 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.
go back? He was never a coordinator.
assistant head coach in charge of the defense is only not DC in title, a word game. There were so many quality coaches on defense in Tampa that each had an impact, that Dungy -the HC and manager of the assistant coaches- gets credit for, as he should. IIRC Herm was quite the opposite personality to Dungy yet they were buddies and thus people felt like they made a great duo-one's strength was the other's weakness.
He was assistant head coach and defensive backs coach, not in charge of the defense. The only X's and O's that Edwards recognizes is in Tic Tac Toe. Herm's best trait is his relationship with people.Edwards moved on to training that next generation, taking a coaching job with San Jose State University in 1987. Hired by the Kansas City Chiefs three years later, he served as a scout and then a defensive coach for the team. In 1996 he joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as assistant head coach and defensive backfield coach, thanks in part to head coach Tony Dungy, an old friend. Edwards and Dungy met at the 1974 Hula Bowl game during their college careers and had remained close over the years. Dungy was, at the time, the NFL's only black head coach, and Edwards later credited his friend with teaching him much about the art of leading a group of well-compensated, overly feted, and physically imposing players. "Watching him work and watching him earn the respect of the players, I realized you didn't have to be boisterous and you didn't have to holler," Edwards told Philadelphia Daily News sportswriter Paul Domowitch.

Edwards gained a reputation with the Bucs as a skilled manager of players with impressive motivational skills, and was predicted to one day hold a head-coach job himself. That day came a bit more quickly than expected, when the Jets announced in January of 2001 that Edwards would succeed the retiring coach, Bill Parcells. Some of the credit may have come from another longstanding association that Edwards enjoyed, this one with new Jets general manager Terry Bradway, whom he knew from his Kansas City days.

 
I keep hearing this Kiffin talk, but if he didn't join up with Lane in Oakland why would he do it in college?
They already had Ryan. Kiffin has a good gig ($$) but lets face it, coaching in college is a bit less stressful and time consuming versus the NFL. He's 68, going to Tenn. would be like retiring and going to work as a Walmart greeter. :lmao:
:shock: :D

Plus he'll do very well greeting/coaching there....

 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.
go back? He was never a coordinator.
assistant head coach in charge of the defense is only not DC in title, a word game. There were so many quality coaches on defense in Tampa that each had an impact, that Dungy -the HC and manager of the assistant coaches- gets credit for, as he should. IIRC Herm was quite the opposite personality to Dungy yet they were buddies and thus people felt like they made a great duo-one's strength was the other's weakness.
He was assistant head coach and defensive backs coach, not in charge of the defense. The only X's and O's that Edwards recognizes is in Tic Tac Toe. Herm's best trait is his relationship with people.Edwards moved on to training that next generation, taking a coaching job with San Jose State University in 1987. Hired by the Kansas City Chiefs three years later, he served as a scout and then a defensive coach for the team. In 1996 he joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as assistant head coach and defensive backfield coach, thanks in part to head coach Tony Dungy, an old friend. Edwards and Dungy met at the 1974 Hula Bowl game during their college careers and had remained close over the years. Dungy was, at the time, the NFL's only black head coach, and Edwards later credited his friend with teaching him much about the art of leading a group of well-compensated, overly feted, and physically imposing players. "Watching him work and watching him earn the respect of the players, I realized you didn't have to be boisterous and you didn't have to holler," Edwards told Philadelphia Daily News sportswriter Paul Domowitch.

Edwards gained a reputation with the Bucs as a skilled manager of players with impressive motivational skills, and was predicted to one day hold a head-coach job himself. That day came a bit more quickly than expected, when the Jets announced in January of 2001 that Edwards would succeed the retiring coach, Bill Parcells. Some of the credit may have come from another longstanding association that Edwards enjoyed, this one with new Jets general manager Terry Bradway, whom he knew from his Kansas City days.
:goodposting:

No way in hell would I want my team to hire Herm as a DC.... He Never held this position and even worse, with the Jets he flip flopped systems, hired a 3-4 DC to run a defense they made up on the fly that wasn't 3-4 (cover-2 Tampa hybrid thingee) and couldn't even coach up DB's which IF ANYTHING was supposed to be his thing.

He's not a "Great Mind" of the game that you want to see at this position, let alone HC....

I've said it for years Herm should be helping young kids at the college or HS level where he can really make a difference in people's lives.....

 
I keep hearing this Kiffin talk, but if he didn't join up with Lane in Oakland why would he do it in college?
Wasn't it Davis who blocked this, cause he liked Ryan? Don't know if that's fact or rumor.
No, it is because Monte Kiffin was under contract to Tampa Bay. He couldn't leave Tampa Bay to take a similar position with the Raiders. If the Raiders had even had talks with him about doing so, the Bucs could have filed tampering charges. Coach's contracts generally only allow them to talk with other teams if it would be for a higher position than the one they have now. Since Kiffin is a defensive coordinator, assuming his contract is a normal one in this regard, he couldn't talk to another team about a DC position since it would be a lateral move. He could only talk to other teams about a head coaching job. Even that might require the Buc's permission, not sure.
 
I keep hearing this Kiffin talk, but if he didn't join up with Lane in Oakland why would he do it in college?
They already had Ryan. Kiffin has a good gig ($$) but lets face it, coaching in college is a bit less stressful and time consuming versus the NFL. He's 68, going to Tenn. would be like retiring and going to work as a Walmart greeter. :hifive:
i disagree with you on the STRESS part...so you don't think it'd be stressful trying to save his own son's job yearly if he doesn't recruit well nationally in a program that can't compete if it only recruits regionally?

in the Pros you theoretically are "even" at recruiting (each team gets one of best 32 players, etc)

in the SEC, you are automatically assured of being "behind" EVERY YEAR regional-recruiting-wise to Florida and Georgia who are both in your division

if he wants less stress he needs to stay at TB, where his 'system' is revered, copied, and proven

what if he goes to the Vols, his 'system' doesn't work against the Gators spread which is unlike pro offenses, The Vols do no better than second (or worse) to the Gators in the SEC East for a handful of years, and his son's head is on the chopping block

can you imagine the stress on Monte worried that his son's career could be over with two unsuccessful head coaching opportunities (one NFL and one NCAA) in 2011 with a 7-5 Vol team heading to the Liberty Bowl to play Rice

on the other hand, maybe that IS his motivation, trying to help get his son off to a good start

and i agree with you 100% on the time-consuming part

 
don't get me wrong in my above post, as a Vol homer i'd love to have Monte join Lane

it's just that I think he would be under alot more stress (not stress involving the 'difficulty' of stopping SEC offenses - but the mental drain of expectations on his son)

 
I keep hearing this Kiffin talk, but if he didn't join up with Lane in Oakland why would he do it in college?
Wasn't it Davis who blocked this, cause he liked Ryan? Don't know if that's fact or rumor.
No, it is because Monte Kiffin was under contract to Tampa Bay. He couldn't leave Tampa Bay to take a similar position with the Raiders. If the Raiders had even had talks with him about doing so, the Bucs could have filed tampering charges. Coach's contracts generally only allow them to talk with other teams if it would be for a higher position than the one they have now. Since Kiffin is a defensive coordinator, assuming his contract is a normal one in this regard, he couldn't talk to another team about a DC position since it would be a lateral move. He could only talk to other teams about a head coaching job. Even that might require the Buc's permission, not sure.
They could've easily gotten around that by making him assistant head coach or some such. As I recall, Lane attempted to fire Ryan, or at least was rumored to WANT to fire him, but was blocked by Davis. I can only assume who his first replacement candidate would've been.From the CC times:

If you’re keeping score on all the offseason “rumors” regarding the Kiffin vs. Davis, the Raiders owner confirmed that Kiffin wanted to bring in his father to be defensive coordinator, Kiffin didn’t want to draft JaMarcus Russell, Kiffin wanted to fire Rob Ryan, and that a resignation letter drafted on Kiffin’s behalf did indeed exist _ although Davis said it was at Kiffin’s request.
Something about this was even in Davis' letter.
Davis

"Monte told me that he wanted to come here...even though he is under contract with Tampa,' Davis said at his news conference Tuesday.

Davis said the Raiders did not want to tamper, so he called Buccaneeers general manager Bruce Allen but ended up talking about Lane, "even though Monte wanted to leave.'
 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.
go back? He was never a coordinator.
assistant head coach in charge of the defense is only not DC in title, a word game. There were so many quality coaches on defense in Tampa that each had an impact, that Dungy -the HC and manager of the assistant coaches- gets credit for, as he should. IIRC Herm was quite the opposite personality to Dungy yet they were buddies and thus people felt like they made a great duo-one's strength was the other's weakness.
He was assistant head coach and defensive backs coach, not in charge of the defense. The only X's and O's that Edwards recognizes is in Tic Tac Toe. Herm's best trait is his relationship with people.Edwards moved on to training that next generation, taking a coaching job with San Jose State University in 1987. Hired by the Kansas City Chiefs three years later, he served as a scout and then a defensive coach for the team. In 1996 he joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as assistant head coach and defensive backfield coach, thanks in part to head coach Tony Dungy, an old friend. Edwards and Dungy met at the 1974 Hula Bowl game during their college careers and had remained close over the years. Dungy was, at the time, the NFL's only black head coach, and Edwards later credited his friend with teaching him much about the art of leading a group of well-compensated, overly feted, and physically imposing players. "Watching him work and watching him earn the respect of the players, I realized you didn't have to be boisterous and you didn't have to holler," Edwards told Philadelphia Daily News sportswriter Paul Domowitch.

Edwards gained a reputation with the Bucs as a skilled manager of players with impressive motivational skills, and was predicted to one day hold a head-coach job himself. That day came a bit more quickly than expected, when the Jets announced in January of 2001 that Edwards would succeed the retiring coach, Bill Parcells. Some of the credit may have come from another longstanding association that Edwards enjoyed, this one with new Jets general manager Terry Bradway, whom he knew from his Kansas City days.
seems like you're noting the DB coach part but not the Assistant HC part. What would you say his role as assitant head coach was then?

 
I like the guy. But he needs to go back to being a defensive coordinator - not head coach. He could kill the best offense known to man.
go back? He was never a coordinator.
assistant head coach in charge of the defense is only not DC in title, a word game. There were so many quality coaches on defense in Tampa that each had an impact, that Dungy -the HC and manager of the assistant coaches- gets credit for, as he should. IIRC Herm was quite the opposite personality to Dungy yet they were buddies and thus people felt like they made a great duo-one's strength was the other's weakness.
He was assistant head coach and defensive backs coach, not in charge of the defense. The only X's and O's that Edwards recognizes is in Tic Tac Toe. Herm's best trait is his relationship with people.Edwards moved on to training that next generation, taking a coaching job with San Jose State University in 1987. Hired by the Kansas City Chiefs three years later, he served as a scout and then a defensive coach for the team. In 1996 he joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as assistant head coach and defensive backfield coach, thanks in part to head coach Tony Dungy, an old friend. Edwards and Dungy met at the 1974 Hula Bowl game during their college careers and had remained close over the years. Dungy was, at the time, the NFL's only black head coach, and Edwards later credited his friend with teaching him much about the art of leading a group of well-compensated, overly feted, and physically imposing players. "Watching him work and watching him earn the respect of the players, I realized you didn't have to be boisterous and you didn't have to holler," Edwards told Philadelphia Daily News sportswriter Paul Domowitch.

Edwards gained a reputation with the Bucs as a skilled manager of players with impressive motivational skills, and was predicted to one day hold a head-coach job himself. That day came a bit more quickly than expected, when the Jets announced in January of 2001 that Edwards would succeed the retiring coach, Bill Parcells. Some of the credit may have come from another longstanding association that Edwards enjoyed, this one with new Jets general manager Terry Bradway, whom he knew from his Kansas City days.
seems like you're noting the DB coach part but not the Assistant HC part. What would you say his role as assitant head coach was then?
I think more "HC in training" learning about running a team, scheduling, practices, managing players etc over x's and o's.... From what I understand he was never a student of the game and He wasn't a defensive genius before or after his Asst HC gig....... He doesn't have a defense of his own.

At this point any 'extra' time he had was working with the db's....

 
My dad has that Dungy book Quiet pride Quiet leadership....quiet something. I'll get it back by the weekend. There is a whole bit in there about him hiring Herm and his staff. I don't remember it as you say. I'll get back to you on this, sorry for the delay

 
Reaper said:
He doesn't have a defense of his own.
Tampa-2 isn't wholly Dungy's but a continuation or development from something Chuck Knoll did. I'm confident Lovie and Herm and all, they have their own development too. Not having Warren Sapp (although Herm does have a super rook DT) it has to be different some. If Shanny or Gruden has his own WCO and not necessarily a variation of Bill Walsh's(in public opinion) then I could also roll with Dungy having his own D. Is every 3-4 D a variation of Tom Landry's 3-4? Since coaching isn't often about originality, rarely is, but moreso improvement upon an existing set or theory it can be pretty dicey.Your Jets have two coaches that started young in Mangini and Shotty's son. Can they ever be original or will Marty and BB always get credit for them being proteges?
 
Reaper said:
He doesn't have a defense of his own.
Tampa-2 isn't wholly Dungy's but a continuation or development from something Chuck Knoll did. I'm confident Lovie and Herm and all, they have their own development too. Not having Warren Sapp (although Herm does have a super rook DT) it has to be different some. If Shanny or Gruden has his own WCO and not necessarily a variation of Bill Walsh's(in public opinion) then I could also roll with Dungy having his own D. Is every 3-4 D a variation of Tom Landry's 3-4? Since coaching isn't often about originality, rarely is, but moreso improvement upon an existing set or theory it can be pretty dicey.Your Jets have two coaches that started young in Mangini and Shotty's son. Can they ever be original or will Marty and BB always get credit for them being proteges?
Mangini and Schott are perfect examples of NOT-Herm... Two guys who studied the game from young ages and strive to learn every little facet of the game... Herm was a decent player who fell into coaching.... I consider them opposites.....It's not about being original as much as Herm is pretty much reliant on whatever DC he hires and again, with the Jets that was a mess as they bounced systems and coaches around as Herm fumbled for answers... Again, he never ran a defense.Bottomline... If I'm hiring a DC I want someone who is known to be a student of defenses and either a "Genius" or an up and coming "Genius".... IMO, that is the opposite of Herm..... I actually think Herm would be a better Head Coach where he can be more the motivator and organizer than being a DC where he really needs to break down x's and o's....
 

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