Herschel Walker (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

For the younger crowd, Herschel Walker may be but a vague memory. But at one point he was a star and wound up playing 15 professional seasons.His 12 year NFL numbers totalled:- 1954 carries, 8225 rushing yards, 4.2 ypc, 61 rushing TD- 512 receptions, 4859 receiving yards, 21 receiving TD- 13084 yards from scrimmage (25th all-time in the NFL)- 82 total rushing/receiving TD (39th all-time in the NFL)He also played on special teams, but I can't find any of those stats.He also was the cornerstone of the USFL.His 3-year USFL totals:- 1143 carries, 5562 rushing yards, 4.9 ypc, 54 rushing TD- 230 receptions, 1484 receiving yards, 7 receiving TDHe set what *COULD* be viewed as all time single season pro football records:- Most carries (438)- Most rushing yards (2411)- Most touches (475)- Most total yards from scrimmage (2878)But the USFL played 18 game seasons.Combining his stats from both leagues, his numbers would total (where he would rank if these were his actual career NFL numbers):3097 rushes (5th), 13787 rushing yards (5th), 115 rushing TD (3rd)642 receptions (30th), 6343 receiving yards, 28 receiving TD20130 yards from scrimmage (4th), 143 rushing/receiving TD (4th)I have heard very little about Walker's candidacy for the HOF on the boards. Does anyone see him as even someone up for debate. Remember, it's called the PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME and NOT the NFL HALL OF FAME.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

NOHerschel was a good back but not Hall of Fame worthy. As good as he may have been in the USFL, those players on defense weren't the same caliber as the NFL players.As a big Dallas fan, I never thought Herschel lived up to his hype. At times, he seemed kind of raw when running the ball. The best thing Herschel Walker EVER did for the Cowboys was help acquire all of those draft picks from the Minnesota Vikings which helped launch a dynasty in the early 90's in Big D.Herschel Walker = Good NFL playerHerschel Walker = Great USFL and college player

 

[Main Force Patrol]

As a Walker fan, I voted 'borderline'.A little-known tidbit: Walker is the only player in NFL history to tally a 90-yd+ run, a 90-yd+ reception, and a 90-yd+ return in the same season. At least, that was true when he retired, and I'm pretty sure it still is.

 

[Tenderknee]

It is right to include his work inthe USFL as part of his legacy, but no one can dispute that the USFL was not neraly as tough as the NFL, and yards there must be treated with an asterisk or a de-rating factor. I think he was a great RB, and could have been the best ever, but his dominance was only really showcased in the USFL and not the NFL. He was not the greatest RB of his time in the NFL, and his numbers in the NFL wer very poor compared to many others.I would not argue against him if he ever got in, but I would not argue for him to get in. There are many others that had as good a career or better and are not in there now. He was a truly intersting specimen of an athlete being naturally strong and lifting cows and stuff for training, but so was Bo Jackson, and we don't give credit for college work, which the USFL was very close to, and we don't give credit for potential unseen. Sayers was potential seen, but for a short period. I never really saw or thought that Herschel was the best ever, or the best of his time, and I doubt many feel that way.I do think that ESPN helps out players of the younger generation more with exposure and recognition of exceptional skills. I probably would need to see an NFL Films special about Herschel to really want to get on his bandwagon. As it is now, he is not even close, and I do remember watching him and saying that his trade value was unrealistic.

 

[fruity pebbles]

What's his USFL career have to do with the NFL hall of fame? Vote him into the USFL hall of fame but he shouldn't even sniff the one associated with the NFL.

 

[dgreen]

He was also a pretty good at KR.

I voted the veterans committee might consider him.

 

[blake]

i freakin' love these threads.

 

[LHUCKS]

Pre Bush hype...it was often said that he was the best college RB ever. I also liked the stories that talked about how he never lifted weights and only did pushups and situps.

 

[blake]

What's his USFL career have to do with the NFL hall of fame? Vote him into the USFL hall of fame but he shouldn't even sniff the one associated with the NFL.

Does anyone see him as even someone up for debate. Remember, it's called the PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME and NOT the NFL HALL OF FAME.

 

[dgreen]

There are many others that had as good a career or better and are not in there now.

Who?Ernest Byner, Terry Allen, and Ottis Anderson are the only backs with more career rushing yards than Walker that are eligible for the HOF and aren't in. Walker was a better receiver than any of them (Byner's probably close, though), returned kicks during his career, and spent his best years, physically, in the USFL. I have no idea who blocked best among those players.

ETA: Ottis probably deserves more recognition that he gets. Five of his first six seasons were over 1000 yards and the one that wasn't was the strike-shortened 1982 season. When he returned to a starting role late in his career in NY, he had 25 TDs in two seasons. Oh, and he's a SB MVP.

 

[JaxBill]

I always thought it was funny that the NFL acknowledged Warren Moon's CFL numbers but refused to admit that Walker and Flutie had USFL careers. Of course, this is the same league that put down the USFL but were quick to grab the Sam Mills of the world when the league folded.

 

[Yenrub]

Well since it's called the PRO football hall of fame, I voted yes.But I don't think he will get in

 

[fruity pebbles]

What's his USFL career have to do with the NFL hall of fame? Vote him into the USFL hall of fame but he shouldn't even sniff the one associated with the NFL.

Does anyone see him as even someone up for debate. Remember, it's called the PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME and NOT the NFL HALL OF FAME.

The only reason it's called that is because of the AFL. It's the NFL Hall of Fame by all accounts, just look who runs it. Maybe Doug Flutie should get in based on his CFL career.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

If he hadn't played in the USFL, probably. As it stands, doubtful.Too bad too, because I remember watching that cat play at Georgia and he was one of the best backs I have ever seen.

 

[BlueOnion]

If Gale Sayers got in, then Herchel should get in.

 

[bueno]

If Gale Sayers got in, then Herchel should get in.

Herschel had the skills and put up decent numbers. So too, did Warren Moon. I doubt either will ever make it though.

 

[dgreen]

If Gale Sayers got in, then Herchel should get in.

Herschel had the skills and put up decent numbers. So too, did Warren Moon. I doubt either will ever make it though.

You have to be fishing.Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

 

[BlueOnion]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

 

[fruity pebbles]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

You're joking right?

 

[dgreen]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

I didn't know a pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter existed.

 

[bts4bkfst]

Herschel Walker and the Generals were the Michigan Panthers biatches!i'm a lion fan, i can revel in the "glory days" of pro-football here in detroit can't I?

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

I didn't know a pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter existed.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Wasn't Hershel Walker single-handedly responsible for the Dallas Cowboys Dynasty of the early 90's? He has to go in.

 

[BlueOnion]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

You're joking right?

I just think it is odd that Gale Sayers is primarily applauded for his statistical potential instead of his actual statistic output. I will be the first to say he was a rare physical specimen, but then so was Bo Jackson and Bruce Jenner.

 

[dgreen]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

You're joking right?

I just think it is odd that Gale Sayers is primarily applauded for his statistical potential instead of his actual statistic output. I will be the first to say he was a rare physical specimen, but then so was Bo Jackson and Bruce Jenner.

There's nothing wrong with Sayers' actual statistical output.

 

[BlueOnion]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

You're joking right?

I just think it is odd that Gale Sayers is primarily applauded for his statistical potential instead of his actual statistic output. I will be the first to say he was a rare physical specimen, but then so was Bo Jackson and Bruce Jenner.

There's nothing wrong with Sayers' actual statistical output.

Are you saying he put up Hall of Fame numbers?

 

[dgreen]

You have to be fishing.

Moon is a lock and Sayers is 10x better than Walker.

How come so much love for Gale Sayers and no love for pre-injury Ki-Jana Carter?

You're joking right?

I just think it is odd that Gale Sayers is primarily applauded for his statistical potential instead of his actual statistic output. I will be the first to say he was a rare physical specimen, but then so was Bo Jackson and Bruce Jenner.

There's nothing wrong with Sayers' actual statistical output.

Are you saying he put up Hall of Fame numbers?

Yes.

 

[BlueOnion]

Yes.

Subjective question and one I happen to disagree with.4,956 career rushing yards, 1,307 yards receiving. He only played in 3 full seasons and had 2 thousand yard games. He also contributed on kick returns but I don't have those numbers available. He did have a healthy 5.0 ypc average, but this was still 1/3 of yard less than Bo Jackson's career number at 5.4 ypc.

Statistically, I don't think Gale Sayers' numbers hold up to his fellow hall of fame running backs.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

He only played in 3 full seasons and had 2 thousand yard games.

I think that's enough to get into the Hall. Hell, a single thousand yard game is pretty good in a career.

 

[dgreen]

Yes.

He also contributed on kick returns but I don't have those numbers available.

LinkHe retired as the all time KR leader. He was All NFL five straight years. Named all time NFL RB in 1969.

 

[stevec]

A couple of points:1. By definition, Sayers put up HoF numbers because he's in. However, he's one of the weakest selections in the hall, quite possibly the weakest. Nobody gets in with those numbers anymore, although his return yards help.2. If the HoF recognizes Moon's CFL stats it will be more of Pro Football Hall, right now, it's not even an American Pro Football Hall. 3. I don't know if there are any WFL players in the Hall - there is about to be a USFL player going in, unless someone can make a non-laughable case for no Reggie White. What happens with White's stats will be interesting - it would really help a few guys, specifcally Herschel - but also defenders like Sam Mills & William Fuller. Right now, as I understand it, the league recognizes stats from the NFL, AFL, & AAFC.

 

[BlueOnion]

Yes.

He also contributed on kick returns but I don't have those numbers available.

LinkHe retired as the all time KR leader. He was All NFL five straight years. Named all time NFL RB in 1969.

:meh: Herchel Walker is one of the all-time great kick returners too.

The bolded parts are more accolades than statistics and we were debating if his statistical numbers stand up to fellow HOFers.

 

[Urinal Mint]

His trade to Minnesota won 3 Super Bowls for the Cowboys. I think he's a shoo-in.

 

[dgreen]

Yes.

He also contributed on kick returns but I don't have those numbers available.

LinkHe retired as the all time KR leader. He was All NFL five straight years. Named all time NFL RB in 1969.

:meh: Herchel Walker is one of the all-time great kick returners too.

So? What does Herschel Walker have to do with Gale Sayers?

The bolded parts are more accolades than statistics and we were debating if his statistical numbers stand up to fellow HOFers.

They are stats.How many yards did Sayers rush for in his career? 4956

How many TDs did he rush for in his career? 39

How many times was he named the best back of all time? 1

How many times was he named All NFL? 5

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

A couple of points:

1. By definition, Sayers put up HoF numbers because he's in. However, he's one of the weakest selections in the hall, quite possibly the weakest. Nobody gets in with those numbers anymore, although his return yards help.

2. If the HoF recognizes Moon's CFL stats it will be more of Pro Football Hall, right now, it's not even an American Pro Football Hall.

3. I don't know if there are any WFL players in the Hall - there is about to be a USFL player going in, unless someone can make a non-laughable case for no Reggie White. What happens with White's stats will be interesting - it would really help a few guys, specifcally Herschel - but also defenders like Sam Mills & William Fuller. Right now, as I understand it, the league recognizes stats from the NFL, AFL, & AAFC.

Jim Kelly was also a USFL guy, as was Steve Young

 

[dgreen]

A couple of points:

1. By definition, Sayers put up HoF numbers because he's in. However, he's one of the weakest selections in the hall, quite possibly the weakest. Nobody gets in with those numbers anymore, although his return yards help.

2. If the HoF recognizes Moon's CFL stats it will be more of Pro Football Hall, right now, it's not even an American Pro Football Hall.

3. I don't know if there are any WFL players in the Hall - there is about to be a USFL player going in, unless someone can make a non-laughable case for no Reggie White. What happens with White's stats will be interesting - it would really help a few guys, specifcally Herschel - but also defenders like Sam Mills & William Fuller. Right now, as I understand it, the league recognizes stats from the NFL, AFL, & AAFC.

Jim Kelly was also a USFL guy, as was Steve Young

And Reggie White?

 

[BlueOnion]

They are stats.

How many yards did Sayers rush for in his career? 4956

How many TDs did he rush for in his career? 39

How many times was he named the best back of all time? 1

How many times was he named All NFL? 5

You can statistically analyze as many non-statistical accolades as you want, it still won't make the accolades a statistical accomplishment.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

A couple of points:

1. By definition, Sayers put up HoF numbers because he's in. However, he's one of the weakest selections in the hall, quite possibly the weakest. Nobody gets in with those numbers anymore, although his return yards help.

2. If the HoF recognizes Moon's CFL stats it will be more of Pro Football Hall, right now, it's not even an American Pro Football Hall. 

3. I don't know if there are any WFL players in the Hall - there is about to be a USFL player going in, unless someone can make a non-laughable case for no Reggie White. What happens with White's stats will be interesting - it would really help a few guys, specifcally Herschel - but also defenders like Sam Mills & William Fuller. Right now, as I understand it, the league recognizes stats from the NFL, AFL, & AAFC.

Jim Kelly was also a USFL guy, as was Steve Young

And Reggie White?

as was Reggie, but he was mentioned already.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Why is Walker being compared to Sayers? You cannot compare players from two different eras. The league was different when Sayers was playing vs what is was when Walker played. Walker needs to be compared to his peers. Based on that, he is not a HoFer.

 

[dgreen]

They are stats.

How many yards did Sayers rush for in his career? 4956

How many TDs did he rush for in his career? 39

How many times was he named the best back of all time? 1

How many times was he named All NFL? 5

You can statistically analyze as many non-statistical accolades as you want, it still won't make the accolades a statistical accomplishment.

What do you think voters used to select him as the best back all time and All NFL five times? They used stats, among other things. Those accolades are very much stats-based.

 

[dgreen]

A couple of points:

1. By definition, Sayers put up HoF numbers because he's in. However, he's one of the weakest selections in the hall, quite possibly the weakest. Nobody gets in with those numbers anymore, although his return yards help.

2. If the HoF recognizes Moon's CFL stats it will be more of Pro Football Hall, right now, it's not even an American Pro Football Hall.

3. I don't know if there are any WFL players in the Hall - there is about to be a USFL player going in, unless someone can make a non-laughable case for no Reggie White. What happens with White's stats will be interesting - it would really help a few guys, specifcally Herschel - but also defenders like Sam Mills & William Fuller. Right now, as I understand it, the league recognizes stats from the NFL, AFL, & AAFC.

Jim Kelly was also a USFL guy, as was Steve Young

And Reggie White?

as was Reggie, but he was mentioned already.

 

[MarshallRob]

Statistically, I don't think Gale Sayers' numbers hold up to his fellow hall of fame running backs.

His numbers blow away Jim Thorpe, Red Grange, and Bronko Nagurski.

 

[stevec]

Everything is about numbers in the context of the era in which they were gained. Comparing across eras is tough - especially in football where we've seen increased specialization marching forward at a faster rate than any other major sport.Did the NFL recognize USFL stats for Kelly, Young, etc. ?

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

Everything is about numbers in the context of the era in which they were gained. Comparing across eras is tough - especially in football where we've seen increased specialization marching forward at a faster rate than any other major sport.

Did the NFL recognize USFL stats for Kelly, Young, etc. ?

it's not a question of the NFL recognizing stats from the USFL. There are individual voters, each of whom decides on an individual basis. With Kelly and Young it didn't matter, the #s they put up in the NFL were enough. For Moon taking the CFL #s into account might put him over the top.

 

[David Yudkin]

Everything is about numbers in the context of the era in which they were gained. Comparing across eras is tough - especially in football where we've seen increased specialization marching forward at a faster rate than any other major sport.

Did the NFL recognize USFL stats for Kelly, Young, etc. ?

it's not a question of the NFL recognizing stats from the USFL. There are individual voters, each of whom decides on an individual basis. With Kelly and Young it didn't matter, the #s they put up in the NFL were enough. For Moon taking the CFL #s into account might put him over the top.

Moon should make it even ignoring his CFL stats.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

Everything is about numbers in the context of the era in which they were gained. Comparing across eras is tough - especially in football where we've seen increased specialization marching forward at a faster rate than any other major sport.

Did the NFL recognize USFL stats for Kelly, Young, etc. ?

it's not a question of the NFL recognizing stats from the USFL. There are individual voters, each of whom decides on an individual basis. With Kelly and Young it didn't matter, the #s they put up in the NFL were enough. For Moon taking the CFL #s into account might put him over the top.

Moon should make it even ignoring his CFL stats.

I agree, but I also think that is candidacy is in question and that many of the voters feel that he was a product of a crazy system (the good old run-n-shoot) who never managed to win anything.

 

[David Yudkin]

Everything is about numbers in the context of the era in which they were gained. Comparing across eras is tough - especially in football where we've seen increased specialization marching forward at a faster rate than any other major sport.

Did the NFL recognize USFL stats for Kelly, Young, etc. ?

it's not a question of the NFL recognizing stats from the USFL. There are individual voters, each of whom decides on an individual basis. With Kelly and Young it didn't matter, the #s they put up in the NFL were enough. For Moon taking the CFL #s into account might put him over the top.

Moon should make it even ignoring his CFL stats.

I agree, but I also think that is candidacy is in question and that many of the voters feel that he was a product of a crazy system (the good old run-n-shoot) who never managed to win anything.

Top 5 in most major categories in basically 15 years should be plenty to get in (vs Top 10 in most categories for Vinny T in 19 seasons).

 

[BUD GRANT]

I hate Mike Lynn!

 

[stevec]

I understand that it comes down to voters, but having never been to Canton, I wanted to know if those stats were recognized - not so much because of the bearing on Young, Kelly, White, Moon, and the like, but on what the recognition of those stats does to the eligible player pool.Examples:Walker with USFL stats considered.Flutie with CFL & USFL stats considered.

 

[Marauder]

Yes.

Subjective question and one I happen to disagree with.4,956 career rushing yards, 1,307 yards receiving. He only played in 3 full seasons and had 2 thousand yard games. He also contributed on kick returns but I don't have those numbers available. He did have a healthy 5.0 ypc average, but this was still 1/3 of yard less than Bo Jackson's career number at 5.4 ypc.

Statistically, I don't think Gale Sayers' numbers hold up to his fellow hall of fame running backs.

To me, this is an argument for Sayers belonging in the HOF. 6,400 total yards from scrimage in the amount of games he played is amazing, especially in that era which was heavily defensive dominated (and was only a 14 game season). I think people put too much emphasis on career totals. I would much rather vote for somebody who was among the very best at his position but had his career shortened by injuries than somebody who had a long, mediocre career.