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High Ranking for RG 3? Really? (1 Viewer)

Kwai Chang Caine

Kwai Chang Caine

Footballguy
I'm shocked by how high the staff has him. (By the way, the MyFootball guy subscription that Adam H. Suggested really is worth the price to save time scouring wire if you're in multiple leagues).

Anyway, I gotta see more before I start playing him over the likes of Palmer or even Alex Smith. Am I missing something here? Team looks in total disarray and maybe griffin will never be what he was. Seems like Gruden is trying to force him to be something he's not and I think the Jags D is no joke. I'm an Eagle's fan and they looked decent last week.

 
The Redskins moved the ball well at Houston which sports an above average defense. The 2 turnovers inside the 10 yard line killed them. This week the Redskins play Jacksonville at home who gave up big yards to Philly. I might play RG3 over M Ryan based on the above.

 
Debating RG3/Wilson-- Probably gonna start wilson, have a feeling Im gonna regret it. RG3 was 24-28 or something like that…

 
RG3 wasn't as bad as people think against Houston. Yes, he did alot of dinking and dunking, but that's what the gameplan called for. He didn't have time against Houston's pass rush to let routes develop downfield. The Jags defense is decent, but it's not Houston's defenslive line with Watt. RG3 should be fine. If he or Paul doesn't fumble in the redzone, he could've thrown for 2TDs and we're looking at his day as a success.

 
RG3 is and has always been overrated. HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES. Take away his #1 and he tries to run. I can't believe people still buy the media generated hype on him.

 
stlrams said:
The Redskins moved the ball well at Houston which sports an above average defense. The 2 turnovers inside the 10 yard line killed them. This week the Redskins play Jacksonville at home who gave up big yards to Philly. I might play RG3 over M Ryan based on the above.
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Lol never go full #######

 
it is eye brow raising but we knew Hou Def was going to be tough as nails. They got him around QB10 in my scoring system and I would roll with that for another week.

I

 
MattFancy said:
ImTheScientist said:
RG3 is and has always been overrated. HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES. Take away his #1 and he tries to run. I can't believe people still buy the media generated hype on him.
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Guess you didn't see last week when he was reading defenses and checking down to open WRs?
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I agree MF...this whole "HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES" thing is a really old narrative, much like: "THE REDSKINS SUCK BECAUSE THEY SIGN OVERPRICED FREE AGENTS AND IGNORE THE DRAFT ENTIRELY!!!"

People get a few "talking points" in their head and bleat them over and over again.

That said, RGIII does have real problems. I think his main issue is not that he CAN'T read defenses, but that he's just not very quickly and decisively getting rid of the ball. He's definitely going through his progressions, as is evidenced by all the check downs last week, even when he had a little time (not often). But what he's not doing is just dropping back and quickly getting rid of it.

Honestly, the dinks and dunks are not a problem if he just goes back, gets in a rhythm and gets rid of it. Folks act like he has to sling it down the field 30 yards on every play. But you don't have to do that. You can dink and dunk 10 passes in a row and then when defense is up, go for the long ball...

 
Bloom hysterical tweet per RG III's escapability this year.

===========================================

Sigmund Bloom @SigmundBloom · 8h

Watching WAS-HOU. Foster and Morris look terrific. RG3 has all of the escapability of a baby fawn on a frozen pond.
 
MikeApf said:
MattFancy said:
ImTheScientist said:
RG3 is and has always been overrated. HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES. Take away his #1 and he tries to run. I can't believe people still buy the media generated hype on him.
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Guess you didn't see last week when he was reading defenses and checking down to open WRs?
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I agree MF...this whole "HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES" thing is a really old narrative, much like: "THE REDSKINS SUCK BECAUSE THEY SIGN OVERPRICED FREE AGENTS AND IGNORE THE DRAFT ENTIRELY!!!"

People get a few "talking points" in their head and bleat them over and over again.

That said, RGIII does have real problems. I think his main issue is not that he CAN'T read defenses, but that he's just not very quickly and decisively getting rid of the ball. He's definitely going through his progressions, as is evidenced by all the check downs last week, even when he had a little time (not often). But what he's not doing is just dropping back and quickly getting rid of it.

Honestly, the dinks and dunks are not a problem if he just goes back, gets in a rhythm and gets rid of it. Folks act like he has to sling it down the field 30 yards on every play. But you don't have to do that. You can dink and dunk 10 passes in a row and then when defense is up, go for the long ball...
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Agreed, he defintiely needs to be more decisive on his reads, which is something that will come more quickly as he gets more familiar with the offensive system Gruden runs. To coomplete 78% of your passes is pretty solid. Yes, most of them were short passes, but with the constant pressure he was facing, that's still good.

People love to crush RG3. Some of it is deserved, but most of it is not. The guy works his butt off in the weight room, practice field and in the film room. Ask any of the players or coaches that. London Fletcher talks about how RG3 is one of the hardest workers he's seen.

 
MattFancy said:
RG3 wasn't as bad as people think against Houston. Yes, he did alot of dinking and dunking, but that's what the gameplan called for. He didn't have time against Houston's pass rush to let routes develop downfield. The Jags defense is decent, but it's not Houston's defenslive line with Watt. RG3 should be fine. If he or Paul doesn't fumble in the redzone, he could've thrown for 2TDs and we're looking at his day as a success.
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The problem is, a significant amount of RGIII's value is predicated on his running ability. Less so this year than before, perhaps, but still significant.

In 29 career games he's only averaged 230 yards and 1.25 TDs per game through the air. Those figures are almost exactly equal to the career averages of Joe Flacco, who is WW material in most redraft leagues.

Look, I like RGIII as a QB and as a person and I genuinely want him to succeed in the NFL. But if he isn't running - or is working within a gameplan that emphasizes checking down instead of running - he's not providing you any value at all over a replacement-level QB like Flacco. Until I see hard evidence that that is changing, I'd have a hard time keeping him in my starting lineup (and in fact I'm pulling him out of same in the one league where I own him, in favor of Tannehill).

 
Mr. Irrelevant said:
MattFancy said:
RG3 wasn't as bad as people think against Houston. Yes, he did alot of dinking and dunking, but that's what the gameplan called for. He didn't have time against Houston's pass rush to let routes develop downfield. The Jags defense is decent, but it's not Houston's defenslive line with Watt. RG3 should be fine. If he or Paul doesn't fumble in the redzone, he could've thrown for 2TDs and we're looking at his day as a success.
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The problem is, a significant amount of RGIII's value is predicated on his running ability. Less so this year than before, perhaps, but still significant.

In 29 career games he's only averaged 230 yards and 1.25 TDs per game through the air. Those figures are almost exactly equal to the career averages of Joe Flacco, who is WW material in most redraft leagues.

Look, I like RGIII as a QB and as a person and I genuinely want him to succeed in the NFL. But if he isn't running - or is working within a gameplan that emphasizes checking down instead of running - he's not providing you any value at all over a replacement-level QB like Flacco. Until I see hard evidence that that is changing, I'd have a hard time keeping him in my starting lineup (and in fact I'm pulling him out of same in the one league where I own him, in favor of Tannehill).
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True on the running. But until this year, his WRs he's had to work with are crap. In his rookie year, it was pretty much Santana Moss. Garcon missed 8-10 games (can't remember off the top of my head). Last year he did have Garcon all season and an emerging Reed until he went down. Now he has Garcon, DJax, Roberts and maybe Reed. Will he be putting up 400yd passing games? Probably not. But he could easily get to 300 most weeks with those guys around him. He was at 267 last week and that was with 2 fumbles in the redzone stopping drives short.

 
The unfortunate truth is RG3 sucks at playing QB. Jags defense is underrated as well. Not a good combination.

 
I am thinking of dropping him for a TE if Cameron sits (I have Ryan as my starter). Idk, he looked bad in preseason and was outplayed by Cousins. In 1 QB start smaller leagues there are a lot of good #2 QB options. He doesn't look elite again yet, but he could regain that status.

 
A lot of over reaction here. I agree that rg3 should be benched until he actually starts putting up solid fantasy outings in this new offense. But he should not be dropped. And Alex smith is not a viable start over rg3.

Here are the guys I can see starting over him as of rt now if they have a favorable matchup:

Manning (Payton of course)

Brees

Rodgers

Brady

Ryan

Luck

Stafford

Foles

Rothlisberger

Palmer

Locker

Romo

Kaep

Wilson

Dalton

Cutler

Cam (maybe)

I think starting any of these guys with a favorable matchup over rg3 and keeping him on your bench until further notice is justified. But not dropping him. And certainly can't trade him rt now. The whole fantasy world is down on him. If you want to move him wait until he has a great game or 2.

 
Don't tell FBG this but I would pay about $250 for the MyFBG functionality. Saves me a billion hours a year. That's like...a very small amount of money per hour.

 
LOL! Start Alex Smith over RG3? Your opponent dares you.

I agree that J-ville's defense is under rated, but half their secondary is hurt. They let Philly hang up 30+ points on them in the 2nd half alone last week. If they don't have all their starters back this week, I'm expecting a big day for RG3...especially if they take the training wheels off of RG3 and let him improvise.

 
Ketamine Dreams said:
I am thinking of dropping him for a TE if Cameron sits (I have Ryan as my starter). Idk, he looked bad in preseason and was outplayed by Cousins. In 1 QB start smaller leagues there are a lot of good #2 QB options. He doesn't look elite again yet, but he could regain that status.
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I didn't watch the Washington preseason games, but I keep hearing this. I have to ask. How many snaps did Cousins get against the 1's?

 
TheFanatic said:
Ketamine Dreams said:
I am thinking of dropping him for a TE if Cameron sits (I have Ryan as my starter). Idk, he looked bad in preseason and was outplayed by Cousins. In 1 QB start smaller leagues there are a lot of good #2 QB options. He doesn't look elite again yet, but he could regain that status.
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I didn't watch the Washington preseason games, but I keep hearing this. I have to ask. How many snaps did Cousins get against the 1's?
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Same amount of snaps as you and I

 
rickyg said:
A lot of over reaction here. I agree that rg3 should be benched until he actually starts putting up solid fantasy outings in this new offense. But he should not be dropped. And Alex smith is not a viable start over rg3.

Here are the guys I can see starting over him as of rt now if they have a favorable matchup:

Manning (Payton of course)

Brees

Rodgers

Brady

Ryan

Luck

Stafford

Foles

Rothlisberger

Palmer

Locker

Romo

Kaep

Wilson

Dalton

Cutler

Cam (maybe)

I think starting any of these guys with a favorable matchup over rg3 and keeping him on your bench until further notice is justified. But not dropping him. And certainly can't trade him rt now. The whole fantasy world is down on him. If you want to move him wait until he has a great game or 2.
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That's about where I'm at with him. There are 7 or 8 guys who I would start over him regardless of matchup.

Then another 7 or 8 who I think are in the same ballpark and it would just depend upon matchup.

I wouldn't go too overboard with the Week 1 performance though. With the Bengals, Gruden always seemed to struggle game planning for 3-4 defenses and had 3 terrible game plans in 3 years against the Texans specifically. Give RG3 a few more weeks and see where he is really at. For now, I could see ranking him anywhere from 8 to 18 for a given week and I wouldn't argue too much with it. There's a huge tier of QBs with upside but some question marks.

 
Seeing as how I just acquired him I'm going to be Positive, leaving his run game out of it - the things that made him a possible Upside in the offseason still apply: health, new WRs in Jackson and Roberts (& don't forget Ryan Grant), a possible top-5 TE in Reed (when he returns, and Niles Paul is a former WR who I think could surprise again). We've got a new HC who turned a fair-middlin' QB prospect in Dalton into a very productive QB2, and all that preseason stuff still applies. We've got an efficient if uninspiring performance in Game 1, with some bad luck with TOs & the Young TD near the goal line. So it's possible he's a buy low.

Tell you what though, if this keeps up for the first 5 games, people will start the "B" word with regards to Mr. Griffin.

I think Griffin and Morris owners were probably equally bugged by the TD by Young as well. If you consider the blocked punt TD by LSU's Blue and the missed XP what you're really looking at is a 10-7 defensive struggle between 2 teams playing their first games under new HCs. I have serious doubts that the Redskins defense can keep that up, I think there will be more pressure to score moving forward.

 
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Is it just me, or does anyone else remember Griffin having a real nice deep ball when he was at Baylor?

If I do recall that correctly, where has that gone? Seems like a natural with the receiving corps they have now.

 
ldizzle said:
MattFancy said:
ldizzle said:
Gruden trying to turn him into a pocket passer is a fail. This was clearly the case last game.
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Yeah definitely a failure after 1 game in which he completed 78% of his passes.
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he is a mobile quarterback. He is most dangerous being a mobile qb. They are sticking a square peg in a round hole. He completed 78%, yea thats great but where did that get them?
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I think he needs to have freedom to haul off and run if the receivers are not open. Vick showed how dangerous that can be in open field with those kinds of legs. I agree if the Redskins are thinking the designed runs will get him in trouble health wise over the long haul though. Those receivers should leave plenty of room for not only him but also Morris.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else remember Griffin having a real nice deep ball when he was at Baylor?

If I do recall that correctly, where has that gone? Seems like a natural with the receiving corps they have now.
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When you're facing Houston, and your o-line is defenseless against JJ Watt and Clowney (for half the game anyway), you aren't looking for the deep ball, you're looking to release that pass as fast as possible. I think people are underrating the Houston D's effect on RGIII last week. Yeah, he was dinking and dunking, but because he didn't want to get snapped in half by Watt and company. No INT and only one fumble that was more the fault of the center than RGIII, and two turnovers inside the ten. If even one of those turnovers was a TD would there be nearly as much panic? I picked up Locker this week, but I'm still rolling with RGIII.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else remember Griffin having a real nice deep ball when he was at Baylor?

If I do recall that correctly, where has that gone? Seems like a natural with the receiving corps they have now.
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He did have 2 nice deep passes last week that just missed. 1 was caught by Roberts but he just barely missed staying in-bounds by the tip of his toe. One of those that if it was called a catch on the field, probably would've stayed a catch type calls. The other was a deep pass to Garcon that Garcon misjudged and jumped a split second too early.

 
RenegadeRoy said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else remember Griffin having a real nice deep ball when he was at Baylor?

If I do recall that correctly, where has that gone? Seems like a natural with the receiving corps they have now.
Click to expand...
When you're facing Houston, and your o-line is defenseless against JJ Watt and Clowney (for half the game anyway), you aren't looking for the deep ball, you're looking to release that pass as fast as possible. I think people are underrating the Houston D's effect on RGIII last week. Yeah, he was dinking and dunking, but because he didn't want to get snapped in half by Watt and company. No INT and only one fumble that was more the fault of the center than RGIII, and two turnovers inside the ten. If even one of those turnovers was a TD would there be nearly as much panic? I picked up Locker this week, but I'm still rolling with RGIII.
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Feel the same and did the same. Picked up Locker, but I don't have the heart to bench RG3 against the Jags. If it was a better defense, sure. But this is the same Jags teams that allowed 34 points in the 2nd half to Philly. Not saying the Skins will duplicate that, but they're not exactly playing a top of the line defense this week.

 
Can tell who actually watched the Redskins last week and who is just spitting out what they think sounds right. RG3 played very well all things considered last week. Last year in similar conditions we would have saw multiple turnovers easily. His accuracy was very good, he made the right pass most of the time, made some downfield throws when buying time, etc. The results weren't great as he had no TDs or running yards. The Texans (Brooks Reed and Swearinger in particular) were all over him on playaction/roll outs. Hell, he even slid on a play where old RG3 would have tried to split the defenders and gotten destroyed. I think it was a good showing and expect him to get better and better. Gruden will have to open things up and also run it more to loosen up the Ds too. I'm buying low on RG3.

 
I watched the game tonight and tbh I didn't think he looked terrible. Man I hope he can make it. The skins future is obviously in his hands.

 
Re: the Jaguars defense- A couple of things to note from the Eagles game. 1) If Cyprien is out against Washington, that can only help RG3. 2) IMO, the biggest reason for the Jaguars defensive drop-off in the 2nd half is that they were flat out gassed. Philly's tempo, combined with the offense not being able to sustain any drives, just killed them. Depth is an issue.

 
Banger said:
these threads are always the kiss of death...starting RG3 with confidence now.
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I don't discount his talent OR the possibility that rg3 can have a great game against the jags.

But for me, I'm just looking at the situation objectively. I own him as my qb1 in my dynasty league so in hitched to his wagon for better or for worse for a while. But that doesn't stop me from taking a step back and looking at the facts:

1) he is injury prone (at least his play in the nfl until this year has made him so)

2) he hasn't produced well as a fantasy qb since 2012.

3) he's in a completely new offense that requires him to play football in a manner in which he has never played before. He has always relied heavily in his legs to make plays. Now he is being asked to stay in the pocket and only run when necessary.

4) the preseason and week 1 demonstrate that, this far, he has not figured out how to use this new style of qb play to generate points for his team OR his fantasy owners.

So, given those observations, the prudent thing to so is to sit him (assuming you have a better option) and let him prove his worth on your bench.

 
jbz said:
Can tell who actually watched the Redskins last week and who is just spitting out what they think sounds right. RG3 played very well all things considered last week. Last year in similar conditions we would have saw multiple turnovers easily. His accuracy was very good, he made the right pass most of the time, made some downfield throws when buying time, etc. The results weren't great as he had no TDs or running yards. The Texans (Brooks Reed and Swearinger in particular) were all over him on playaction/roll outs. Hell, he even slid on a play where old RG3 would have tried to split the defenders and gotten destroyed. I think it was a good showing and expect him to get better and better. Gruden will have to open things up and also run it more to loosen up the Ds too. I'm buying low on RG3.
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Yeah, if you can buy low, by all means, I'd do it. Unfortunately, RG3 is one of those guys who'll usually command a premium to an anonymous QB with identical stats based on name alone.

I've reached out to a couple of RG3 owners inquiring about price and haven't found anyone in a redraft willing to move him for less than Wilson / Brady at QB or an RB2-level guy like Bush / Mathews in flex leagues. IMO all of those alternate options have similar expected VBD with fewer question marks than Griffin at this stage.

For better or for worse, RG3 owners tend to be true believers who are gonna ride or die with their guy, just like Gronk, Harvin, and T-Rich owners are.

 
Kwai Chang Caine said:
I'm shocked by how high the staff has him. (By the way, the MyFootball guy subscription that Adam H. Suggested really is worth the price to save time scouring wire if you're in multiple leagues).

Anyway, I gotta see more before I start playing him over the likes of Palmer or even Alex Smith. Am I missing something here? Team looks in total disarray and maybe griffin will never be what he was. Seems like Gruden is trying to force him to be something he's not and I think the Jags D is no joke. I'm an Eagle's fan and they looked decent last week.
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Which (ie who at MyFBGs) projections are you looking at?

 
Whether to start him or not depends on whether you think the Jacksonville defensive front will beat the Redskin offensive line, or not. If Jacksonville does that you'll see a stat line like last week for Griffin. If the Washington o-line holds up a little better you'll see 1-2 TD's and a higher YPA from Griffin.

 
fatness said:
Whether to start him or not depends on whether you think the Jacksonville defensive front will beat the Redskin offensive line, or not. If Jacksonville does that you'll see a stat line like last week for Griffin. If the Washington o-line holds up a little better you'll see 1-2 TD's and a higher YPA from Griffin.
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I'm sorry but trying to turn him into a pocket passer is a huge mistake IMO. 2 yards rushing last week, really? He doesn't need to run for 65+ yards a week but he's got natural ability and I think they're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

 
Banger said:
fatness said:
Whether to start him or not depends on whether you think the Jacksonville defensive front will beat the Redskin offensive line, or not. If Jacksonville does that you'll see a stat line like last week for Griffin. If the Washington o-line holds up a little better you'll see 1-2 TD's and a higher YPA from Griffin.
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I'm sorry but trying to turn him into a pocket passer is a huge mistake IMO. 2 yards rushing last week, really? He doesn't need to run for 65+ yards a week but he's got natural ability and I think they're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
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I agree with you.

 
MattFancy said:
MikeApf said:
MattFancy said:
ImTheScientist said:
RG3 is and has always been overrated. HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES. Take away his #1 and he tries to run. I can't believe people still buy the media generated hype on him.
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Guess you didn't see last week when he was reading defenses and checking down to open WRs?
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I agree MF...this whole "HE CAN'T READ DEFENSES" thing is a really old narrative, much like: "THE REDSKINS SUCK BECAUSE THEY SIGN OVERPRICED FREE AGENTS AND IGNORE THE DRAFT ENTIRELY!!!"People get a few "talking points" in their head and bleat them over and over again.

That said, RGIII does have real problems. I think his main issue is not that he CAN'T read defenses, but that he's just not very quickly and decisively getting rid of the ball. He's definitely going through his progressions, as is evidenced by all the check downs last week, even when he had a little time (not often). But what he's not doing is just dropping back and quickly getting rid of it.

Honestly, the dinks and dunks are not a problem if he just goes back, gets in a rhythm and gets rid of it. Folks act like he has to sling it down the field 30 yards on every play. But you don't have to do that. You can dink and dunk 10 passes in a row and then when defense is up, go for the long ball...
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Agreed, he defintiely needs to be more decisive on his reads, which is something that will come more quickly as he gets more familiar with the offensive system Gruden runs. To coomplete 78% of your passes is pretty solid. Yes, most of them were short passes, but with the constant pressure he was facing, that's still good.

People love to crush RG3. Some of it is deserved, but most of it is not. The guy works his butt off in the weight room, practice field and in the film room. Ask any of the players or coaches that. London Fletcher talks about how RG3 is one of the hardest workers he's seen.
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Fletcher also said he calls him Robert instead of rg3 because he doesn't deserve to have they nick name until he earns it

 
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