Hines Ward outscores Plaxico Burress again ... (1 Viewer)

[Dancing Bear]

How on Earth did Hines Ward outscore Plaxico Burress again this year?

And Plaxico wasn't even there to stretch the field for him ...



Here's a hint, Hines Ward is better than Plaxico Burress.

I've said it numerous times before. Burress succeeded in Pittsburgh because Ward got ALL of the attention from the secondary.

Burress could not beat Ward's performance this year in an Offense which has consistently been performing in the top of the NFL [4th in scoring and 6th in yardage for the year]; he is barely a Top 15 WR ... Ward is Top 10 again ...

Shockey and Toomer have both outscored Burress in TD's. Shockey will outscore him from a Fantasy perspective for sure this year and Toomer could flirt with outscoring him as well with another big game.

 

[dOuSkUe]

Ward did NOT make the Pro Bowl

 

[valhallan]

However, Burress gave his owners MUCH more value this year.

 

[Yenrub]

How on Earth did Hines Ward outscore Plaxico Burress again this year?

And Plaxico wasn't even there to stretch the field for him ...



Here's a hint, Hines Ward is better than Plaxico Burress.

I've said it numerous times before. Burress succeeded in Pittsburgh because Ward got ALL of the attention from the secondary.

Burress could not beat Ward's performance this year in an Offense which has consistently been performing in the top of the NFL [4th in scoring and 6th in yardage for the year]; he is barely a Top 15 WR ... Ward is Top 10 again ...

Shockey and Toomer have both outscored Burress in TD's. Shockey will outscore him from a Fantasy perspective for sure this year and Toomer could flirt with outscoring him as well with another big game.

And you were wrong numerous time beforePlax has had a fine season in NY.

He leads the team in receptions and receiving yards.

He isn't too far off of his career best year in Pittsburgh which was

78-1325-7 TD in 2001 or 2002

71-1086-6 TD so far this year

 

[Dancing Bear]

Actually Yenrub, Burress' value is highly dependent upon what you [or anyone else] actually paid for him in your draft.

He was way OVERHYPED on numerous boards here as being the best WR in Pittsburgh and that he was going to soar when he got to the Giants, and be a Top 5 WR.

His numbers are nearly pedestrian compared with the projections of many, and his numbers have fallen off incredibly since week #06. In that 11 game stretch he has only 2 TD's, only 4 games with more than 50 yards; in his last 4 games he has not gotten even 50 yards receiving! That's some incredible performance!



Additionally, compared with Ward he is nearly 2 ppg lower, and Ward was available at a much cheaper cost in most drafts.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Hines Ward is a full grown man.I've drafted him each year for the last 4 and I'll keep doing it.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Ward was available at a much cheaper cost in most drafts.

Not in any of the 10 or 12 drafts I particiapted in.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Also, if Hines was the one who recieved all the attention, why did Hines have 5 year lows in receptions and yards this year?

 

[Otis]

This is an awful, awful thread.What a wonderful collection of misinformation.

 

[Otis]

Also, if Hines was the one who recieved all the attention, why did Hines have 5 year lows in receptions and yards this year?

 

[valhallan]

Ward was available at a much cheaper cost in most drafts.

Not in any of the 10 or 12 drafts I particiapted in.

Me neither. Ward went in round 4 of my 10-teamer, while Burress fell to round 14.

 

[Otis]

Ward did NOT make the Pro Bowl

 

[Otis]

How on Earth did Hines Ward outscore Plaxico Burress again this year?

And Plaxico wasn't even there to stretch the field for him ...



Here's a hint, Hines Ward is better than Plaxico Burress.

I've said it numerous times before. Burress succeeded in Pittsburgh because Ward got ALL of the attention from the secondary.

Burress could not beat Ward's performance this year in an Offense which has consistently been performing in the top of the NFL [4th in scoring and 6th in yardage for the year]; he is barely a Top 15 WR ... Ward is Top 10 again ...

Shockey and Toomer have both outscored Burress in TD's. Shockey will outscore him from a Fantasy perspective for sure this year and Toomer could flirt with outscoring him as well with another big game.

And you were wrong numerous time beforePlax has had a fine season in NY.

He leads the team in receptions and receiving yards.

He isn't too far off of his career best year in Pittsburgh which was

78-1325-7 TD in 2001 or 2002

71-1086-6 TD so far this year

 

[Dancing Bear]

AhrnCityPahnder,When I said attention, I meant by the opposing Defenses not necessarily attention by the number of balls thrown his way by the Offense.The lows you reference [are they correlated for the fact that he missed several quarters this season due to the hamstring?]His PPG is nearly 2 points above Burress in spite of the lows you reference.Also, I have three different leagues I am participating in. Ward was not drafted ahead of Burress in any. Ward was drafted a minimum of 5 WR behind Burress [at least one round later]. That is significant value to me!

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I have three different leagues I am participating in. Ward was not drafted ahead of Burress in any. Ward was drafted a minimum of 5 WR behind Burress [at least one round later]. That is significant value to me!

Well, I can't tell you what happened in your drafts, as I wasn't a part of ay of them, but I can tell you that if Burress went before Ward it certainly was not the norm or in line with any credible FF projections or analysis that I read. A random sampling of data form FBG drafts, my work drafts, and some ADP info:

MBSL2 16 team--

ward 4.5

burress 7.4

QSL 14 team--

ward 3.14

burress 7.3

WSL 16 team:

ward 4.5

burress 6.12

SSL2

Ward 3.13

burress 7.9

my work 10 team:

ward 4.7

burress 9.1

Antsports ADP draft spot, for all 12 team drafts between jan and aug 2005:

Ward 4.01

Burress 8.02

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The lows you reference [are they correlated for the fact that he missed several quarters this season due to the hamstring?]

Thats a fair point that I didn't take into consideration. All I can tell you is that the PIT passing game changed drastically from last year to this year. Outside of a couple throws I can remember to ARE and Wilson, they do not throw deep balls anymore. It seemed like everything was under 15 yards on a slant or a curl or an out.

 

[Otis]

I have three different leagues I am participating in. Ward was not drafted ahead of Burress in any. Ward was drafted a minimum of 5 WR behind Burress [at least one round later]. That is significant value to me!

Well, I can't tell you what happened in your drafts, as I wasn't a part of ay of them, but I can tell you that if Burress went before Ward it certainly was not the norm or in line with any credible FF projections or analysis that I read. A random sampling of data form FBG drafts, my work drafts, and some ADP info:

MBSL2 16 team--

ward 4.5

burress 7.4

QSL 14 team--

ward 3.14

burress 7.3

WSL 16 team:

ward 4.5

burress 6.12

SSL2

Ward 3.13

burress 7.9

my work 10 team:

ward 4.7

burress 9.1

Antsports ADP draft spot, for all 12 team drafts between jan and aug 2005:

Ward 4.01

Burress 8.02

This Dancing Bear guys is absolutely being owned every which way in this thread.

 

[wannabee]

I have three different leagues I am participating in.  Ward was not drafted ahead of Burress in any.  Ward was drafted a minimum of 5 WR behind Burress [at least one round later].  That is significant value to me!

Well, I can't tell you what happened in your drafts, as I wasn't a part of ay of them, but I can tell you that if Burress went before Ward it certainly was not the norm or in line with any credible FF projections or analysis that I read. A random sampling of data form FBG drafts, my work drafts, and some ADP info:

MBSL2 16 team--

ward 4.5

burress 7.4

QSL 14 team--

ward 3.14

burress 7.3

WSL 16 team:

ward 4.5

burress 6.12

SSL2

Ward 3.13

burress 7.9

my work 10 team:

ward 4.7

burress 9.1

Antsports ADP draft spot, for all 12 team drafts between jan and aug 2005:

Ward 4.01

Burress 8.02

So, what's your point? Could you spell it out a little more?Just kidding, ACP.

 

[Dancing Bear]

Otis,

3 posts with nothing useful to say ...

Ward still out-scored Burress by nearly 2 ppg!

AhrnCityPahnder,

Thanks for posting the ADP stuff; guess my leaguemates were quaffing the Burress Kool-Aid this past Summer.

 

[Otis]

Otis,

3 posts with nothing useful to say ...

Ward still out-scored Burress by nearly 2 ppg!

AhrnCityPahnder,

Thanks for posting the ADP stuff; guess my leaguemates were quaffing the Burress Kool-Aid this past Summer.

Sorry, but you lost my legitimate interest at "another pro bowl for Hines?"

 

[Yenrub]

Actually Yenrub, Burress' value is highly dependent upon what you [or anyone else] actually paid for him in your draft.

He was way OVERHYPED on numerous boards here as being the best WR in Pittsburgh and that he was going to soar when he got to the Giants, and be a Top 5 WR.

His numbers are nearly pedestrian compared with the projections of many, and his numbers have fallen off incredibly since week #06. In that 11 game stretch he has only 2 TD's, only 4 games with more than 50 yards; in his last 4 games he has not gotten even 50 yards receiving! That's some incredible performance!



Additionally, compared with Ward he is nearly 2 ppg lower, and Ward was available at a much cheaper cost in most drafts.

I am not sure what boards or sites you were reading but the projections for Burress on this site were 59-900-6 (I used this sites projections when putting together one of my draft list. In my main money league using the projections Burress was ranked as the 34th WR prior to the draft)Ward’s projected numbers were 86-1070-8 (13th WR based on these projections)

Also I am not sure where you get Ward is outscoring Burress by 2 ppg.

At 1 point per 10 yards and 6 points for TD’s

Ward 68-935-11 = 159.5 points

Burress 71-1086-6 = 144.6 points

Difference is 14.9 points over 15 games which is right at 1 point per game

 

[EZD222]

It usually takes a receiver more than a year to adjust to the system of a new team. Plax exceeded my expectations and I'm sure his value will increase next year. Oh yea, Ward went in the 4th and Plax went in the 6th of my league

 

[Dancing Bear]

Yenrub,Ward has only played in 14 games.His ppg is 11.46Burress has played 15 games.His ppg is 9.64This is the nearly 2 ppg [1.82 ppg] that I was referring to.Any thoughts for why Burress has played so poorly the majority of the past 11 games!

 

[Bri]

How on Earth did Hines Ward outscore Plaxico Burress again this year?

And Plaxico wasn't even there to stretch the field for him ...



Here's a hint, Hines Ward is better than Plaxico Burress.

I've said it numerous times before. Burress succeeded in Pittsburgh because Ward got ALL of the attention from the secondary.

Burress could not beat Ward's performance this year in an Offense which has consistently been performing in the top of the NFL [4th in scoring and 6th in yardage for the year]; he is barely a Top 15 WR ... Ward is Top 10 again ...

Shockey and Toomer have both outscored Burress in TD's. Shockey will outscore him from a Fantasy perspective for sure this year and Toomer could flirt with outscoring him as well with another big game.

fish much?

 

[Yenrub]

Yenrub,

Ward has only played in 14 games.

His ppg is 11.46

Burress has played 15 games.

His ppg is 9.64

This is the nearly 2 ppg [1.82 ppg] that I was referring to.

Any thoughts for why Burress has played so poorly the majority of the past 11 games!

As a Giants fan (And Burress owner in 1 league) I haven’t been happy with his performance for the month of December. His last 2 games in November (PHI & SEA) he went over 100 yards.

I think there are a few ‘problems’

1. Barber and the running game have been clicking pretty good over the 11 game stretch that you speak of.

2. If Burress isn’t involved early in the game, he tends to pout and lose interest

3. Looks like Burress gives up on some of his routes

4. When he lines up on the opposite side of the field from Shockey he gets double teamed a lot.

5. Eli’s comfort level with Toomer has gotten much higher.

6. Toomer sees more one on one coverage and probably runs better routes than Burress.

Now as a Giants fan I have a problem with 2 & 3. The rest of the stuff is just part of the game and I am glad that Eli feels comfortable with Toomer. More importantly I love to see the running game working!

Fantasy wise I would love to see Burress with the single coverage and Toomer doubled!

 

[Steelers4Life]

I have to laugh at threads like this.Like most other people, Ward was consistently drafted before Burress in my leagues, too. For fantasy purposes, he might even be a better option some weeks if only because the Steelers don't have anything else to rely on in their passing attack.Ward IS the Steelers passing attack. Randle El, Wilson, and Miller are nothing but compliments, so when Big Ben drops back, Ward is his #1 option every time. The running game wasn't effective for parts of the year, too. In NY, Burress is a big reason for the year Shockey had, and defenses shifting a lot of coverage to him is a huge reason why Toomer came on strong in the 2nd half. Not that an 1100-6 season with a game left is anything to sneeze at, but he also opened things up for the other threats NY has in the passing game. That's not even counting the fact that Barber is the main threat in the Giants' offense. His 2nd half struggles relate more to the emergence of other treats and the struggles of Eli Manning at throwing downfield.Burress' numbers are right where I expected them to be in virtually every offseason thread. Ward is having a better season than I expected him to, and I'm loving it, but Burress has added a lot to the Giants' offense.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Here's exactly what I posted on March 18, 2005...In 2005, I see Burress doing the following:8-9 targets per game - based on the analysis in this thread, I certainly don't see that as being unrealistic. Catches 50% of his targets - exactly what he did last year. = 4.25 catches per game, give or takeAverages 17 yards per catch - Did that in 2002, and averaged 20 in 2004.That equates to a 68 catch, 1,156 yard season. I'll say 7 TDs is a reasonable esimate.His cieling is higher than this if the Giants decide to move to a more vertical passing game with healthy, better WRs. Feel free to dispute these projections, but I don't think any of them are unrealistic in any way.It's been fun!

 

[Dancing Bear]

Great analysis and insight Yenrub!

 

[dOuSkUe]

Otis,

3 posts with nothing useful to say ...

Ward still out-scored Burress by nearly 2 ppg!

AhrnCityPahnder,

Thanks for posting the ADP stuff; guess my leaguemates were quaffing the Burress Kool-Aid this past Summer.

Sorry, but you lost my legitimate interest at "another pro bowl for Hines?"

 

[Dancing Bear]

Hey Otis,Does it bother you that Hines Ward is better than Burress and recognized across the NFL for it, or have you missed getting him the last several years in your Fantasy leagues?4 Pro Bowls is hard to sneeze at; wonder what criteria you are using to assess him?dOuSkUe,Do you have anything useful to contribute?Burress is not even in the Top 50 receivers [WR and TE] in the past 4 games; at least Yenrub took a stab at explaining the downturn ...

 

[Yenrub]

Did Plaxico's performance over the weekend show you anything Dancing Bear?