You know that they invented blocking more than 10 years ago, right? I mean, it's sort of been around for a while.
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Hines Ward voted the NFL's dirtiest player again (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ghost Rider
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Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Who cares? John Stockton was consistently voted dirtiest player by his peers too, I doubt that will affect his HOF status. As long as Hines isn't hurting the team with flags, who cares what his peers think?
Every single person in this thread would be in love with the guy if he played for their team.
Every single person in this thread would be in love with the guy if he played for their team.
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Class Dismissed
Footballguy
Really??....Well I stand corrected then.
I'm just waiting for Yudkin to chime in on Ward's pedestrian career numbers, and how he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF, I'm going to counter with Randall McDaniel's career YPC and TD reception numbers.
Pnishthm
Footballguy
You can't say this....if it were an illegal block then there would have been a flag. It goes both ways. Also if a guy is about to make a tackle and doesn't see the blocker coming then should the blocker not block him and let him make the tackle? I don't get this.
Just making sure you understood that, contrary to popular rumors, Hines Ward (patron saint of impeding defenders' progress to the ballcarrier) did not, in fact, invent blocking.Seriously, for all the talk about Hines Ward, you'd think he was the first receiver in NFL history to ever throw a block. Best blocker in the league today? Possibly, although there are plenty of other fantastic blocking wide receivers who never get their due because everyone is too quick to just cede the title to Hines. Best blocking receiver *EVER*? Sorry, but no. It's ludicrous and baseless hyperbole which is primarily only thrown out by Pittsburgh fans to enhance the comparison of Hines Ward against his elite peers... because they know he falls short in the comparison. Seriously, I'd challenge all of these "Ward is possibly the best blocking WR ever!" guys to name 10 other good blocking WRs. Because I suspect most of them don't even WATCH WRS BLOCK or have even the faintest inkling as to who else might be a good blocker at the WR position.Really??....Well I stand corrected then.I'm just waiting for Yudkin to chime in on Ward's pedestrian career numbers, and how he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF, I'm going to counter with Randall McDaniel's career YPC and TD reception numbers.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Ward is considered "dirty" because many of his big blocks are blind side hits that the defensive player never sees coming. That being said defensive player lay blind side hits on offensive players all the time, they just don`t like being on the receiving end of the hitting.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Sorry, but this is flat-out wrong. It's announcers who say this pretty much every game (not local Steelers announcers, I'm talking about the network crews.) That's why Steeler fans usually wave that flag.Watch tonight - if he lays one really good block, one or more of the MNF crew will call him the best blocking receiver ever. It happens pretty much every other week.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Also, Polamalu was #9 on this list of dirtiest players, so you guys tell me how accurate it really is. 
you just threw your hat in with modern NFL commentators ... I am not really sure that is the group you want to use to have your back
Postradamus
Footballguy
he's a turd, no thx
jonessed
Footballguy
So your argument is that it's not hyperbole because TV announcers agree? You don't see the irony in that? :(
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Heck, the Broncos were the kings of cut blocks for years. Thing is, the smart ones dealt with it. Keep your head on a swivel and you won't get hurt - regardless of how the other guy plays.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
They're basing it on that Head & Shoulders commercial where he's being interviewed in the locker room.Also, Polamalu was #9 on this list of dirtiest players, so you guys tell me how accurate it really is.
According to announcers, Brett Favre has never made a bad decision, either. I remember a game where John Madden was talking about how Ray Lewis didn't have any tackles because the Chiefs were constantly double-teaming him, and he then followed it up with a series of plays where Lewis was clearly being single-teamed and tried to come up with some half-hearted rationalization like "well, there was another Chief in the area who was ready to help with the double!".I understand that announcers, given to a fit of unbearable hyperbole, are constantly calling Hines Ward the Greatest. Blocking. WR. Evar!!! So what? Announcers are always calling everything the Greatest. _________. Evar!!!This is why I asked people to think for themselves. If you really believe that Ward is the greatest blocking WR in the game today, then you must know (a.) what constitutes a great blocking WR and (b.) what WRs are great blockers. After all, how can you be so sure Ward is the best unless you know who he's better than? And that's just if you want to call him the best in the game today. If you want to talk about the greatest of ALL TIME, that's a significantly larger can of worms. It's my opinion that if you can't come up with a list of who you think were the 10 best blocking WRs of the '80s (not even mentioning the '70s, '60s, '50s, '40s, '30s, or '20s), then you are in no position to comment on whether Hines Ward was the best blocking WR of all time. I mean, is Hines Ward a better blocker than Art Monk, a guy who was so good his team used him as a TE? Or is he simply a more hyped blocker than Art Monk? I'm not saying that I know the answer, I'm just saying that I don't PRETEND to know the answer.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I never said I agree or disagree with them, merely stating that they are the ones who started and perpetuate that notion, more so than do Steeler fans. I know ward is the best I've seen, but I also see him every week and haven't been watching football since its inception.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I'm disputing the bolded.So your argument is that it's not hyperbole because TV announcers agree? You don't see the irony in that?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I agree with you. I've never seen anyone better, but again - I see far more of him than I did Keyshawn or Rod Smith or I do Terrell Owens. I also have only been watching for maybe 30 years give or take, so if there was a better one in the 50s, 60s, or early-mid 70s, I'd be at a loss there too.
poopdawg
Footballguy
I saw that too. Ive never seen him lay a dirty hit. Destroys the validity of the poll for me.Also, Polamalu was #9 on this list of dirtiest players, so you guys tell me how accurate it really is.
Don't mistake tough for dirty. Two very different things. Not to say that Ward is dirty, IMO.
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
He won because he doesn't actually use shampoo, he just shills for it.I saw that too. Ive never seen him lay a dirty hit. Destroys the validity of the poll for me.Also, Polamalu was #9 on this list of dirtiest players, so you guys tell me how accurate it really is.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
This discussion makes me laugh for two reasons.
a) Dirty was not defined. What's the scale? Are you talking Romanowski dirty? Harrison dirty? Roy Williams dirty [horse collar tackler and broken bone specialist!]? Does he poke players in the eyes? Does he spit in their mouths? Does he punch them in the ribs/ gut? Does he ever hit an opponent low? Does he pile on? Make late hits? No. You're barking up the wrong tree. Hines Ward does not play "dirty". Whether you like Hines Ward or the Steelers, objectively watch the game. He plays legal, hard football. And please don't give me that "crack block" crap. It was a legal hit as seen by the referees of the game. The guys he hits don't like it because they believe that they won't get "hit" themselves; that only they can "dish out" the punishment. Hines takes away their security blanket!
b) I'm quite sure that most of the ~300 nflers who were questioned were not given a neat, organized list of the opposing players who "might" be of interest for their possible answer. Nor were they given a lengthy amount of time to peruse this list to rate their top "dirty" guys. Of course they selected a player they could "come up with quickly" in order to get the SI reporter out of their faces.
Was the hit on Boldin last year "dirty"? Was the hit on Brady last year "dirty"? Or the hit a few years ago on Carson Palmer by Von Oelhoffen? No. It's a contact sport folks ...
Dirty needs to be defined, or the vote is useless tripe to fill the pages of a useless magazine. It used to be that SI was filled with good, interesting journalism. You could really learn something about an athlete or two of the world in each issue. This is rare now, and this rag is filled with nonsense. Just cause it says SI doesn't give it any credibility at all.
a) Dirty was not defined. What's the scale? Are you talking Romanowski dirty? Harrison dirty? Roy Williams dirty [horse collar tackler and broken bone specialist!]? Does he poke players in the eyes? Does he spit in their mouths? Does he punch them in the ribs/ gut? Does he ever hit an opponent low? Does he pile on? Make late hits? No. You're barking up the wrong tree. Hines Ward does not play "dirty". Whether you like Hines Ward or the Steelers, objectively watch the game. He plays legal, hard football. And please don't give me that "crack block" crap. It was a legal hit as seen by the referees of the game. The guys he hits don't like it because they believe that they won't get "hit" themselves; that only they can "dish out" the punishment. Hines takes away their security blanket!
b) I'm quite sure that most of the ~300 nflers who were questioned were not given a neat, organized list of the opposing players who "might" be of interest for their possible answer. Nor were they given a lengthy amount of time to peruse this list to rate their top "dirty" guys. Of course they selected a player they could "come up with quickly" in order to get the SI reporter out of their faces.
Was the hit on Boldin last year "dirty"? Was the hit on Brady last year "dirty"? Or the hit a few years ago on Carson Palmer by Von Oelhoffen? No. It's a contact sport folks ...
Dirty needs to be defined, or the vote is useless tripe to fill the pages of a useless magazine. It used to be that SI was filled with good, interesting journalism. You could really learn something about an athlete or two of the world in each issue. This is rare now, and this rag is filled with nonsense. Just cause it says SI doesn't give it any credibility at all.
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't know. I guess it's hard to put it into to words, but I think these guys generally just know and remember who is "dirty." Many subtle things probably go into them saying a guy is, but I'm sure they all have valid reasons. I'm a long time Steelers fan and homer and I can tell you Ward is indeed a dirty player. He's our dirty player, but still he's got that reputation for good reason IMO.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
I'm starting to wonder if we'll ever agree on anything jurb26 ...I completely disagree that Ward is "dirty". Since you claim that he "indeed" is "dirty", how about giving me the courtesy of providing a definition.Do you really think that he is Jack Tatum, or Conrad Dobler or Bill Romanowski "dirty"?Now that I think of it, I'm going to take a stab at defining "dirty" for you."Dirty" - an act stemming from disrespect and malicious intent. An act which has the full intent to do harm or gain advantage without regard for the rules, or the health and well-being of the opposing player. A cheap shot ... Going for the knees ... Piling on ... Spitting on the opponent ... Punching them ... Poking eyes ... Breaking fingers ...Show me one play where Ward has done any of this. To start with, he has the utmost respect for the NFL, the fans, his teammates and his opponents. So by first principles of the definition he cannot be "dirty".Has he hit the Defensive player? Yes. Has he hit some of them when they were not looking? Yes. Has he engaged an opponent to reduce their impact and effectiveness during a given play so that his team benefits? Yes. Has he intended to inflict damage? No. Has he inflicted damage? Yes. It's a contact sport and occasionally players get hurt.He has participated in close to 10,000 plays. It's bound to happen occasionally.Is the Eric Smith a "dirty" player for the hit he put on Anquan Boldin. He literally broke Q's face with a helmet to face hit? Do I believe he wanted to hit Q hard, and prevent a reception? Yes. Do I believe he wanted to hurt Q? Take him out to the game? End his season/ career? No. The videos referenced previously in this thread show two instances where opponents were injured during clean hits by Ward. That does not make Ward "dirty". Any more than it makes Eric Smith "dirty".Why is it that the Ravens Bart Scott can put Ben Roethlisberger in a stretcher ending his participation in a game, and Ray Lewis can end Rashard Mendenhall's rookie year with clean hard hits and Ward cannot hit them? Do I believe they wanted to hurt either player? No. I believe they wanted to end the play with a hard hit. Perhaps force a turnover, but I don't even believe these guys intended to be "dirty" and hurt either Steelers player.Ward gets attention from Defensive players because these guys want to be able to run around with security hitting the Offensive players. They want to do this at will, without any vulnerability. They want a double standard, and Ward holds them accountable by hitting them square in the mouth with hard, physical football.
jurb26
Footballguy
I really don't care enough to go through and show you any plays. It's not like they are easily accessible anyway. Ummm, OK but these are the same people who are voting him "dirty." So why is it that you are so willing to back them when they say they respect him but not when they say he is dirty? Explain to me why it is that Ward has now been voted on this list twice? Why are people just singling him out, a well respected member of the NFL? It doesn't really matter if we agree on it or not. I said Ward was a dirty player before he was ever voted to this list the 1st time and people had this same reaction.
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Dearest jurb26,
You could at least respect the English that I typed.
I said that Hines Ward has the utmost respect for the NFL, the fans, his teammates and his opponents.
I did not state that his opponents had respect for him. Those would be two very different statements.
You could at least respect the English that I typed.
I said that Hines Ward has the utmost respect for the NFL, the fans, his teammates and his opponents.
I did not state that his opponents had respect for him. Those would be two very different statements.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Not sure about Ben, but they certainly did mean to hurt Mendenhall. Bart Scott admitted on the radio, like the idiot he is, that they had put a bounty out there for anyone who could injure Mendenhall after he had the audacity to phone Ray Rice before his first NFL start and say he thought he'd have a good game on national TV. He then added :"We definitely like to send our messages to rookie running backs who think they've made it." Suggs said. "We did a good a job of sending a message."
Yahoo Sports adds :
The linebacker, however, wasn't the only Raven boasting about the season-ending hit on Mendenhall. The guy who delivered the knockout blow, Ray Lewis, told Sports Illustrated that after the play he wasn't calling for medical help for Mendenhall, he was bragging that the first-round pick was "done".
The quote from Lewis : "The force was freaking incredible. I wasn't screaming 'he's hurt' after the hit, I was screaming 'he's DONE."
But Hines is the league's dirtiest player.
jurb26
Footballguy
Oops, misread that.Either way, I do feel that the folks you referenced have respect for Ward. He plays hard and is a great player. They also know where he is at all times.... both before and after the whistle.
anakin
Footballguy
Hines Ward smiles too much. He hits too hard. He blocks with everything he has and takes an occasional cheap shot with a helmet to helmet hit. Yes I am a die-hard Steelers fan, but these things make him "dirty"? Hines still has that bounty on him and no Raven has collected.
Billy Romanoski broke the eye socket of a teammate. Rodney Harrison is the most fined man in the history of the NFL. Ray Lewis took Mendenhall out and bragged about it. Ray knocked the helmet off of his "friend" Ocho, but Hines is the "dirtiest of the dirty". Makes perfect sense.
Billy Romanoski broke the eye socket of a teammate. Rodney Harrison is the most fined man in the history of the NFL. Ray Lewis took Mendenhall out and bragged about it. Ray knocked the helmet off of his "friend" Ocho, but Hines is the "dirtiest of the dirty". Makes perfect sense.
mystykoekaki
Footballguy
Hines is a #####.
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
That's very Machiavellian, championships excuse his dirty play. He would approve.
