HOF Class of 2010 (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

Didn't see this posted.

Class of 2010 semifinalists announced

Four first-year eligible players Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith and Aeneas Williams, are among the 25 semifinalists being considered for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2010. The Hall of Fame’s Selection Committee chose the 25 semifinalists from the recently announced list of 131 preliminary nominees. Also, the Pro Football Hall of Fame has teamed up with Phillips-Van Heusen Corporation's Van Heusen brand and J.C. Penney, Inc. to ask fans, for the first time ever, to voice their choice for whom they think should be included into the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2010.

Other than the four first-year eligible nominees, each of the remaining 21 nominees on the Hall of Fame’s Selection Committee’s list of nominees has been a semifinalist at least once prior to this year. The list of 25 includes a coach, Don Coryell, and two contributors, Art Modell and Paul Tagliabue.

The complete list of 25 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins

Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens

John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Jerry Rice, WR – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks

Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

Emmitt Smith, RB – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

The list of 25 semifinalists will be reduced by mail ballot to 15 modern-era candidates. That list increases to 17 finalist nominees with the inclusion of the two recommended candidates of the Hall of Fame’s Seniors Committee. The Seniors Committee nominees, who were announced in August, are **** LeBeau and Floyd Little. LeBeau played 14 seasons (1959-1972) at cornerback for the Detroit Lions. Little, a running back played nine seasons (1967-1975) for the Denver Broncos.

The results of the modern-era reduction vote to 15 finalists will be announced on January 7, 2010.

To be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, a nominated player or coach must have been retired at least five years. A contributor, who is a nominee who has made outstanding contributions to pro football in capacities other than playing and coaching, may still be active in his pro football career.

Although there is no set number for any class of enshrinees, the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s current ground rules do stipulate that between four and seven new members will be selected each year. No more than five modern-era nominees can be elected in a given year and a class of six or seven enshrinees can only be achieved if one or both senior nominees are elected.

The Class of 2010 will be determined at the Selection Committee's annual meeting on Saturday, February 6, in South Florida the day before Super Bowl XLIV. The election results will be announced at 5 p.m. ET during a one-hour NFL Network special, live from the Super Bowl media headquarters.

Finalists announced:

Three first-year eligible players, Tim Brown, Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith, are among the 15 modern-era finalists who will be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame when the Hall’s Selection Committee meets in South Florida on Saturday, Feb. 6, 2010.

Joining the three first-year eligible players, are 11 other modern-era players and a longtime head coach. The 15 modern-era finalists, along with the two senior nominees announced in August 2009 (former Detroit Lions cornerback **** LeBeau and former Denver Broncos running back Floyd Little) will be the only candidates considered for Hall of Fame election when the 44-member Selection Committee meets. To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum positive vote of 80 percent.

The official Hall of Fame Selection Committee’s 17 finalists (15 Modern-Era and two Senior Nominees*) with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell – Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig – Running Back – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Dermonti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

Russ Grimm – Guard – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins

Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Rickey Jackson – Linebacker – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers

Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

**** LeBeau* – Cornerback – 1959-1972 Detroit Lions

Floyd Little* – Running Back – 1967-1975 Denver Broncos

John Randle – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks

Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Jerry Rice – Wide Receiver – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks

Shannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

Emmitt Smith – Running Back – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals

Carter, Dawson, Dent, Grimm, Kennedy, Randle, Reed, and Sharpe have all been finalists in previous years. Although they were eligible in previous years, this is the first time Coryell, Craig, Haley, Jackson, Little, and LeBeau have been finalists.

From this year’s list, five players – Dawson, Grimm, Kennedy, LeBeau, and Little – spent their entire NFL career with just one team.

LeBeau and Little were selected as senior candidates by the Hall of Fame’s Seniors Committee at their August 2009 meeting. The Seniors Committee reviews the qualifications of those players whose careers took place more than 25 years ago. The remaining 15 modern-era finalists were determined by a vote of the Hall’s 44-member Selection Committee from a list of 131 preliminary nominees that earlier was reduced to a list of 25 semifinalists. To be eligible for election, modern-era players and coaches must be retired at least five years (prior to 2007 coaches were eligible immediately after retiring).

Since Coryell retired prior to the 2007 change in coach’s eligibility, he has been eligible the longest of the modern-era nominees, 23 years. Grimm has been eligible 14 years, while Craig has been eligible 12 years. Jackson has been eligible for 10 years, Dent eight years, Haley six years, Reed, Dawson and Kennedy five years, Carter three years, Randle and Sharpe two years. Brown, Rice and Smith are in their first year of eligibility. Senior nominees LeBeau and Little have been eligible 33 years and 30 years respectively.

The Selection Committee will meet in South Florida, on Saturday, February 6, 2010, to elect the Hall of Fame Class of 2010. The election results will be announced at 5 p.m. ET during a one-hour NFL Network special, live from the Broward County Convention Center.

At the 2010 selection meeting, the selectors will thoroughly discuss the careers of each finalist. Although there is no set number for any class of enshrinees, the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s current ground rules stipulate that between four and seven new members will be selected each year. No more than five modern-era nominees can be elected in a given year and a class of six or seven can only be achieved if one or both senior nominees are elected. Representatives of the accounting firm Deloitte & Touche will tabulate all votes during the meeting.

At the announcement, Pro Football Hall of Fame President/Executive Director Steve Perry will be presented with an envelope containing the names of the nominees elected. Each newly elected member will be contacted immediately by the Hall of Fame. Members of the Class of 2010 in South Florida for the Super Bowl will be asked to join the live announcement show. Those not able to attend will be asked to join via teleconference.

Sharpe, Carter cut out of HOF voting

FORT LAUDERDALE -- Once again, Shannon Sharpe and Cris Carter are forced to wait.

Neither Carter, the NFL's No.2 all-time receiver, nor Sharpe, who retired as the leading receiver among tight ends in NFL history, made the cutdown for finalists during the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection process. They are the most glaring omissions from the Class of 2010, which will be officially announced around 5:25 p.m.

Carter was eliminated in the first cutdown.

The final five modern-era finalists: Russ Grimm, Rickey Jackson, John Randle, Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith. **** LeBeau and Floyd Little are the seniors committee nominees for a class that will have a maximum of seven inductees.

Also eliminated on the cut to 10: Tim Brown, Don Coryell, Roger Craig and Charles Haley. Cut in the reduction from 10 finalists to five: Dermontti Dawson, Richard Dent, Cortez Kennedy, Andre Reed and Sharpe. -- Jarrett Bell

IMO Grimm was a terrible choice given the quality of the other candidates. Rice and Smith were nobrainers, and I think Randle and Jackson are fine choices.Kind of surprised that both Carter and Brown failed to make the final 10 while Reed did make the final 10.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Man, I'd put almost every one of those guys in the HOF.

 

[SSOG]

Rough year for the repeaters, as 2 of the first-timers (Smith and Rice) are no-brainer lead-pipe locks. I think Aeneas gets in on the first ballot, too. Tim Brown has a great chance, but I don't even pretend to guess what the voters are going to do with respect to WRs anymore. Factor in the fact that Sharpe should have gotten in LAST YEAR, and it's going to be a really, really rough battle to make the hall this year.

I'm going to be pissed if the committee elects any fewer than the maximum 7 possible.

 

[zanti8]

wow thats hard to pick , i would go in this order :

Jerry Rice, WR

Charles Haley, DE/LB

Emmitt Smith, RB

Roger Craig, RB

Lester Hayes, CB

Shannon Sharpe, TE

Rickey Jackson, LB

 

[Chase Stuart]

Rough year for the repeaters, as 2 of the first-timers (Smith and Rice) are no-brainer lead-pipe locks. I think Aeneas gets in on the first ballot, too. Tim Brown has a great chance, but I don't even pretend to guess what the voters are going to do with respect to WRs anymore. Factor in the fact that Sharpe should have gotten in LAST YEAR, and it's going to be a really, really rough battle to make the hall this year.I'm going to be pissed if the committee elects any fewer than the maximum 7 possible.

Well, I hope they select no more than 5. They can't select any more than five of the semifinalists; they can only go to six or seven if they take LeBeau and/or Little.Yes, there are only three open slots this year. You can cross off the five non-skill position players, IMO. Modell isn't going to make it; tough to take Tags in a class this good. Coryell's resume isn't strong for a head coach, even if his innovations may make him HOF worthy. Students of the game should know and respect Coryell, but there's no room for a head coach with a 3-6 playoff record as head coach and only seven winning seasons. His resume strictly as a HC just isn't there. Guy/Tasker, while they'll have their supporters, are joke candidates IMO.That leaves 18 guys after Rice/Emmitt. I don't think Grimm is a good candidate - his career wasn't long enough and he didn't have enough big years to get in; to be a guard in the HOF, you need a spotless resume, and Grimm doesn't have that. Being great from '83 to '86 is not enough. I feel a little more sympathetic to Lester Hayes, but he suffers from the same argument and he'd be the next guy off my list.Of the remaining 16, any three of them would be okay with me. The HOF is the highest possible achievement a player can reach, so you're necessarily going to be bad mouthing outstanding players like Grimm and Hayes. You've got no choice when you're taking only three guys.None of the remaining three are no brainers. I'd probably put Randle and Dawson at the top of my list. After that, I can see good arguments for Brown, TD, Aeneas Williams, Carter, Rickey Jackson and Doleman. I'd pronanly go with TD, because I think he was one of the GOAT at his peak. You could say he suffers from the same arguments that I made to strike Hayes and Grimm, but I think the skill positions are different than the rest; as a skill position player, you can get in off a short peak of greatness and a terrific post-season. As a non-skill position player, you need longevity. I'd put TD in based on his dominant seasons and his dominant post-season play. If not TD, I'd probably go Tim Brown or Aeneas Williams. But it's very, very tough. I really could see arguments for any of the guys on the list.

 

[Tau837]

Rough year for the repeaters, as 2 of the first-timers (Smith and Rice) are no-brainer lead-pipe locks. I think Aeneas gets in on the first ballot, too. Tim Brown has a great chance, but I don't even pretend to guess what the voters are going to do with respect to WRs anymore. Factor in the fact that Sharpe should have gotten in LAST YEAR, and it's going to be a really, really rough battle to make the hall this year.I'm going to be pissed if the committee elects any fewer than the maximum 7 possible.

I would love to see Williams make it, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't, having played his career mostly out of the spotlight. I definitely think he deserves it.Emmitt and Rice are obviously locks, so there are only 3 other spots from the 25 semifinalists. IMO Carter, Brown, and Sharpe are all deserving, but I'm not sure if any of them will make it into those other 3 spots. Because of this competition for 3 spots, I don't think several of these guys (like Branch, Coryell, Craig, Davis, Guy, Greene, Grimm, Hayes, Modell, Reed, Tasker... and probably not Tagliabue) have any chance.Personally, I'd vote for Smith, Rice, Brown, Williams, and Sharpe from these 25 semifinalists.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Jerry Rice

Emmitt Smith

Shannon Sharpe

Cris Carter

Aeneas Williams

are my top 5 from that list

 

[zed2283]

Jerry RiceEmmitt SmithShannon SharpeCris CarterAeneas Williamsare my top 5 from that list

The only real argument is who should be the 5th.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It seems as though most poeple are putting Cris Carter over Tim Brown. I don't agree, although I think it's very close. Carter played in more wide-open, pass-heavy offenses than Brown did. Despite that, Brown has more 1400 yard seasons (1 to 0), more 1300 yard seasons (4 to 1), the same number of 1200 yard seasons (4), more 1100 yard seasons (8 to 5) and more 1000 yard seasons (9 to 8). Carter had the edge in TDs, but I think Carter generally played with better supporting casts than Brown.

Carter only was named a 1st team All-Pro twice, and also was named a 2nd team All-Pro once and a 2nd-team All-Conference once. Brown was a 1st-team All-Pro twice, a 1st-team All-Conference four additional times, and was a 2nd-team All-Conference pick once as well.

Brown and Carter's peaks overlapped; roughly '93 to '00. During that time, Brown played with the following Pro Bowlers:

LG Steve Wisniewski (5 PBs)

QB Rich Gannon (2)

RT Lincoln Kennedy (1)

RG Kevin Gogan (1)

QB Jeff Hostetler (1)

RG Max Montoya (1, and at 37-years old)

Carter played with:

LG Randall McDaniel (7 PBs)

WR Randy Moss (3 PBs)

C Jeff Christy (2 PBs)

RB Robert Smith (2 PBs)

LT Todd Steussie (2)

QB Warren Moon (2)

C Matt Birk (1)

QB Daunte Culpepper (1)

RT Korey Stringer (1)

QB Daunte Culpepper (1)

Tim Brown was also a very good return man -- he has over 4500 career return yards -- and I'd vote for him ahead of Carter.

 

[John Windle]

wow thats hard to pick , i would go in this order :Jerry Rice, WRCharles Haley, DE/LBEmmitt Smith, RBRoger Craig, RBLester Hayes, CBShannon Sharpe, TERickey Jackson, LB

You have Haley over Emmitt? That's among the craziest things I've ever seen. Haley was a special talent, but Emmitt was the most productive running back in the history of the league. Haley himself wouldn't put himself over Emmitt... the year Emmitt held out in '93, the Cowboys started 0-2 and Haley threw his helmet through the wall in the locker room and begged Jerry Jones to sign Emmitt. Literally in tears, Haley said they could take his money if that's what it took, because Emmitt was what made the whole thing run.

 

[CalBear]

No matter what happens, this has gotta be the best HOF class of all time, right?

 

[MarshallRob]

It seems as though most poeple are putting Cris Carter over Tim Brown. I don't agree, although I think it's very close. Carter played in more wide-open, pass-heavy offenses than Brown did. Despite that, Brown has more 1400 yard seasons (1 to 0), more 1300 yard seasons (4 to 1), the same number of 1200 yard seasons (4), more 1100 yard seasons (8 to 5) and more 1000 yard seasons (9 to 8). Carter had the edge in TDs, but I think Carter generally played with better supporting casts than Brown.Carter only was named a 1st team All-Pro twice, and also was named a 2nd team All-Pro once and a 2nd-team All-Conference once. Brown was a 1st-team All-Pro twice, a 1st-team All-Conference four additional times, and was a 2nd-team All-Conference pick once as well.Brown and Carter's peaks overlapped; roughly '93 to '00. During that time, Brown played with the following Pro Bowlers:LG Steve Wisniewski (5 PBs)QB Rich Gannon (2)RT Lincoln Kennedy (1)RG Kevin Gogan (1)QB Jeff Hostetler (1)RG Max Montoya (1, and at 37-years old)Carter played with:LG Randall McDaniel (7 PBs)WR Randy Moss (3 PBs)C Jeff Christy (2 PBs)RB Robert Smith (2 PBs)LT Todd Steussie (2)QB Warren Moon (2)C Matt Birk (1)QB Daunte Culpepper (1)RT Korey Stringer (1)QB Daunte Culpepper (1)Tim Brown was also a very good return man -- he has over 4500 career return yards -- and I'd vote for him ahead of Carter.

There's another receiver on the semifinalist list that nobody's talking about. His raw career numbers may pale in comparison to Rice, Brown, and Carter but I happen to believe that at his peak Cliff Branch was better than either Brown or Carter. Branch was also a key contributor to three Super Bowl Championship teams.

 

[Balco]

How is Dermonti Dawson not in???

 

[sterjs]

I don't think Shannon Sharpe should make it. He was basically a WR playing TE and he doesn't come close to stacking up on the basis of receiving numbers.

 

[Chase Stuart]

No matter what happens, this has gotta be the best HOF class of all time, right?

Could be.The '05 class was great -- Marino, Young, Fritz Pollard and Bennie Friedman is tough to beat, although it's QB-heavy. Last year's class was really good, too.Hard to compare any modern class to the initial first class, but for the record it was:Sammy BaughBert BellJoe CarrEarl (Dutch) ClarkHarold (Red) GrangeGeorge HalasMel HeinWilbur (Pete) HenryRobert (Cal) HubbardDon HutsonEarl (Curly) LambeauTim MaraGeorge Preston MarshallJohn (Blood) McNallyBronko NagurskiErnie NeversJim ThorpeIf you like defense, the class of '82 was pretty awesome -- Doug Atkins, Merlin Olsen, Sam Huff and George Musso.But yeah, I think there's a pretty good shot this class goes down as the best class since the first one. Regardless, we can be sure that ESPN will call this the greatest HOF class ever at least twenty times.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I don't think Shannon Sharpe should make it. He was basically a WR playing TE and he doesn't come close to stacking up on the basis of receiving numbers.

Ozzie Newsome is in, Sharpe should be in.

 

[Native]

Aeneas Williams should get in, but he should not be a 1st ballot HOFer. Let some of the other guys get in first.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

How is Dermonti Dawson not in???

It is tough for interior O-lineman to get in. He needs to be in the hall though. He is on the short list of best C's of all time.

 

[WKTSWAY]

I think with Rice going in, another receiver (Brown, Carter, Sharpe) will not go in because of it. It just seems to go that way where they don't put 2 receivers in the same year.

I have planned for the last 5 years to go to the induction this year to see Rice go in. I wouldn't go for any other player. I can't wait.

Has anyone here been to a HOF ceremony before? I am looking at tickets, but I can only do some of the things I want to do if I buy them in a package (HOF, game, some dinner, plus other stuff). Then to sit closer at the ceremony, I have to buy more expensive package and do things I don't really want to do.

I would like to get a floor seat for the ceremony, and maybe go to the thing where you can walk through and meet some inductees (past and present). When I look at packages that have the meet and greet, it includes a bunch of stuff I don't want to see and costs 2-3 grand.

I found a way to buy the floor seat to the ceremony, but is there something once you are there to buy other stuff individually?

 

[Tau837]

It seems as though most poeple are putting Cris Carter over Tim Brown. I don't agree, although I think it's very close. Carter played in more wide-open, pass-heavy offenses than Brown did. Despite that, Brown has more 1400 yard seasons (1 to 0), more 1300 yard seasons (4 to 1), the same number of 1200 yard seasons (4), more 1100 yard seasons (8 to 5) and more 1000 yard seasons (9 to 8). Carter had the edge in TDs, but I think Carter generally played with better supporting casts than Brown.Carter only was named a 1st team All-Pro twice, and also was named a 2nd team All-Pro once and a 2nd-team All-Conference once. Brown was a 1st-team All-Pro twice, a 1st-team All-Conference four additional times, and was a 2nd-team All-Conference pick once as well.Brown and Carter's peaks overlapped; roughly '93 to '00. During that time, Brown played with the following Pro Bowlers:LG Steve Wisniewski (5 PBs)QB Rich Gannon (2)RT Lincoln Kennedy (1)RG Kevin Gogan (1)QB Jeff Hostetler (1)RG Max Montoya (1, and at 37-years old)Carter played with:LG Randall McDaniel (7 PBs)WR Randy Moss (3 PBs)C Jeff Christy (2 PBs)RB Robert Smith (2 PBs)LT Todd Steussie (2)QB Warren Moon (2)C Matt Birk (1)QB Daunte Culpepper (1)RT Korey Stringer (1)QB Daunte Culpepper (1)Tim Brown was also a very good return man -- he has over 4500 career return yards -- and I'd vote for him ahead of Carter.

I agree that Brown is more deserving than Carter, as shown by my earlier post. However, I am not aware that Brown has two 1st team All Pro selections. Can you cite them? PFR shows none. If you do cite any, were they as a kick/punt returner, or as a WR?

 

[Tau837]

How is Dermonti Dawson not in???

I think he deserves to get in, but I find it interesting that pro-football-reference.com lists these as the players with the most similar careers to Dawson:Bob VogelTom NalenJoe DeLamielleureMike McCormackAlan FanecaEd BuddeJohn NilandDan DierdorfKent HullWalt Sweeney Of those players, only DeLamielleure and Dierdorf are in the HOF, though I think Faneca will be, and I think a case can be made for Nalen as well.

 

[gianmarco]

Pretty amazing to have the #1 overall WR and #1 overall RB (based on #'s) to get in on the same class.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think with Rice going in, another receiver (Brown, Carter, Sharpe) will not go in because of it. It just seems to go that way where they don't put 2 receivers in the same year.

Here's what I wrote a few months ago on this topic:

Outside of QBs, the HOF generally doesn't induct multiple players at the same position. Since the inaugural class, the Hall has only once had two WRs or two TEs in the same class. Only once were there two RBs (Dorsett and Kelly), but one of them was a senior candidate.Ted Hendricks had to wait a year, and he ended up being enshrined with Lambert. Ernie Stautner and Leo Nomellini both went in the same class, but they were both first ballot HOFers. Many feel that Alan Page had to wait a year when Joe Greene was enshrined. Paul Hornung and Doak Walker went in the same year, but I don't think they're good examples; neither are Benny Friedman and Fritz Pollard. The HOF has taken multiple Ts, Gs and DBs before, so it's certainly possible. And we're dealing with such small sample sizes that it's hard to come up with anything definitively.The one time two WRs were inducted was 1970, when Pete Pihos and Tom Fears went in together.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I agree that Brown is more deserving than Carter, as shown by my earlier post. However, I am not aware that Brown has two 1st team All Pro selections. Can you cite them? PFR shows none. If you do cite any, were they as a kick/punt returner, or as a WR?

I always forget those stupid All Pro nods as returners!Brown was a first-team All-Pro according to the Sporting News as a kick returner in 1988. In 1997, he was a first-team All-Pro as a WR by the same source. In 1991, Pro Football Weekly named him first-team All-Pro as a punt returner.

 

[Chase Stuart]

How is Dermonti Dawson not in???

I think he deserves to get in, but I find it interesting that pro-football-reference.com lists these as the players with the most similar careers to Dawson:Bob VogelTom NalenJoe DeLamielleureMike McCormackAlan FanecaEd BuddeJohn NilandDan DierdorfKent HullWalt Sweeney Of those players, only DeLamielleure and Dierdorf are in the HOF, though I think Faneca will be, and I think a case can be made for Nalen as well.

The reason for this is that during Dawson's peak seasons, the Steelers offense wasn't very good. He was a first-team All-Pro every year from '93 to '98, but Pittsburgh had a league average scoring offense over that time period. Usually, the AP's 1AP Center plays on a pretty good offense, and that makes his AV grade look good (which is how the comparable players are derived). Here is where each team ranked in scoring for each of the AP's 1AP C for every year since the merger:

2008	TEN	15   Kevin Mawae2007	IND	3	Jeff Saturday2006	CHI	2	Olin Kreutz2005	IND	2	Jeff Saturday2004	PIT	11   Jeff Hartings2003	DEN	10   Tom Nalen2002	OAK	2	Barret Robbins2001	NYJ	17   Kevin Mawae2000	DEN	2	Tom Nalen1999	NYJ	19   Kevin Mawae1998	PIT	28   Dermontti Dawson1997	PIT	7	Dermontti Dawson1996	PIT	11   Dermontti Dawson1995	PIT	5	Dermontti Dawson1994	PIT	16   Dermontti Dawson1993	PIT	13   Dermontti Dawson1992	HOU	6	Bruce Matthews1991	BUF	2	Kent Hull1990	BUF	1	Kent Hull1989	CHI	10   Jay Hilgenberg1988	CHI	19   Jay Hilgenberg1987	MIA	7	Dwight Stephenson1986	MIA	1	Dwight Stephenson1985	MIA	4	Dwight Stephenson1984	MIA	1	Dwight Stephenson1983	PIT	14   Mike Webster1982	NYJ	3	Joe Fields1981	PIT	8	Mike Webster1980	PIT	10   Mike Webster1979	PIT	1	Mike Webster1978	PIT	5	Mike Webster1977	MIA	3	Jim Langer1976	STL	8	Tom Banks1975	MIA	6	Jim Langer1974	MIA	3	Jim Langer1973	MIA	5	Jim Langer1972	SFO	4	Forrest Blue1971	SFO	9	Forrest Blue1970	OAK	9	Jim Otto

Now AV also factors in quality of teammates, so Kent Hull actually doesn't get more points for his first team All-Pro selections than Dawson did for some of his years. But basically, Dawson's AV grade is saying "he was subjectively a very good center on a team that didn't have a lot of good players and was an average offense." That's not going to lead to a huge rating.

 

[Sinrman]

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Jerry Rice, WR – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks

Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

Emmitt Smith, RB – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

I am guessing these guys this time around...

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Ray Guy HAS to be in soon!!

 

[Mister CIA]

Cliff Branch definitely belongs. In the memory's eye, Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

501 catches, 8685 yards (17.3 per), and 67 TDs - miles ahead of most every other WR from his era.

Paul Taglibue - no thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his greatest accomplishment was not wrecking the train. His body of work pales considerably alongside that of Pete Rozelle.

 

[CalBear]

Ray Guy HAS to be in soon!!

Why, because the idea of enshrining him gets more and more ridiculous every year?

 

[Tau837]

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins Jerry Rice, WR – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens Emmitt Smith, RB – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

I am guessing these guys this time around...

Can't happen. You named six people who were not nominated by the senior committee. A max of five such candidates can be elected.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Cliff Branch definitely belongs. In the memory's eye, Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

501 catches, 8685 yards (17.3 per), and 67 TDs - miles ahead of most every other WR from his era.

Paul Taglibue - no thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his greatest accomplishment was not wrecking the train. His body of work pales considerably alongside that of Pete Rozelle.

My problem with Branch is that he wasn't miles ahead of most every other WR from his era. Branch's peak was in the mid-'70s, and guys like Harold Carmichael, Drew Pearson, Harold Jackson and the Steelers receivers were all very good.I think Branch was very good, and is a decent HOF selection. But he played on some very talented teams; his best years came with Stabler, Art Shell and Gene Upshaw in their primes, the end of Jim Otto and Fred Biletnikoff's career, and the beginning of Dave Casper's career. If I had to induct a WR from that period, I might prefer Harold Jackson, who was not only arguably more productive, but did so for a variety of teams. Jackson, IIRC, was the first player to ever hit 1,000 yards for three different teams.

 

[Andy Herron]

[My problem with Branch is that he wasn't miles ahead of most every other WR from his era. Branch's peak was in the mid-'70s, and guys like Harold Carmichael, Drew Pearson, Harold Jackson and the Steelers receivers were all very good.

Drew Pearson should have been enshrined ions ago. The only player from the "All 70's Team" not to be enshrined.That says it all.

 

[Mister CIA]

I'll gladly cast my vote for Harold Carmichael to enter the Hall of Fame. He was a freak amongst his peers, much like Branch.

Harold Jackson = a nice compiler who belongs in discussions with the likes of Charlie Joiner and Art Monk. I tread through long gray fields as I say this.

Drew Pearson is probably my favorite WR of all-time, but in hindsight I'd have to say Cliff Branch was better .... perhaps.

 

[gianmarco]

I've got to say that there's a lot of "he got to play with a lot of great talent" consistently being mentioned. Why is that such a negative? Is it a certain player's fault he got to play with a more talented team?

I can understand bringing it up for the sake of tiebreakers MAYBE, but it seems to be a major consideration for a lot of the discussion here. Either a guy performed well and deserved it or he didn't. It should not be held against someone for doing well with talent around him.

 

[MarshallRob]

Cliff Branch definitely belongs. In the memory's eye, Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

501 catches, 8685 yards (17.3 per), and 67 TDs - miles ahead of most every other WR from his era.

Paul Taglibue - no thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his greatest accomplishment was not wrecking the train. His body of work pales considerably alongside that of Pete Rozelle.

My problem with Branch is that he wasn't miles ahead of most every other WR from his era. Branch's peak was in the mid-'70s, and guys like Harold Carmichael, Drew Pearson, Harold Jackson and the Steelers receivers were all very good.I think Branch was very good, and is a decent HOF selection. But he played on some very talented teams; his best years came with Stabler, Art Shell and Gene Upshaw in their primes, the end of Jim Otto and Fred Biletnikoff's career, and the beginning of Dave Casper's career. If I had to induct a WR from that period, I might prefer Harold Jackson, who was not only arguably more productive, but did so for a variety of teams. Jackson, IIRC, was the first player to ever hit 1,000 yards for three different teams.

I agree Harold Jackson probably deserves the nod over Branch had both made the list but Jackson keep getting ignored, probably because his teams could never get over the hump. But doesn't your argument that Branch wasn't miles ahead of the other best WR's from his era more properly apply to Tim Brown? He never made a single AP All-Pro team (he made a Sporting News team once) as year after year All-Pro voters preferred Rice, Irvin, Carter, Sharpe and Herman Moore to Brown. Meanwhile, if you compare Branch to his contemporaries from 1974 to 1976 his dominance was very Jerry Rice-like (of course Rice's peak lasted over three times as long) and he was All-Pro three times. Branch certainly played for some very talented teams but also deserves some credit for their tremendous success (15-4 playoff record, 3 Super Bowls). His postseason numbers are very good. He "only" has 5 playoff TD's but 3 came in Super Bowls, none in garbage time.

Branch

19 games (15-4)

73/1289/5

Brown

12 games (6-6)

45/581/3

Carter

14 games (4-10)

63/870/8

 

[Chase Stuart]

But doesn't your argument that Branch wasn't miles ahead of the other best WR's from his era more properly apply to Tim Brown? He never made a single AP All-Pro team (he made a Sporting News team once) as year after year All-Pro voters preferred Rice, Irvin, Carter, Sharpe and Herman Moore to Brown.

I never said that Brown was miles ahead of every other WR from this era; I was just refuting the argument that Branch was miles ahead of every receiver from his era. That said, Brown was never the best WR in the league. He's a little like the WR version of a Curtis Martin. For a nine-year stretch, Brown was a top-ten WR in the league. That's what makes him HOF worthy, IMO.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Rough year for the repeaters, as 2 of the first-timers (Smith and Rice) are no-brainer lead-pipe locks. I think Aeneas gets in on the first ballot, too. Tim Brown has a great chance, but I don't even pretend to guess what the voters are going to do with respect to WRs anymore. Factor in the fact that Sharpe should have gotten in LAST YEAR, and it's going to be a really, really rough battle to make the hall this year.I'm going to be pissed if the committee elects any fewer than the maximum 7 possible.

Well, I hope they select no more than 5. They can't select any more than five of the semifinalists; they can only go to six or seven if they take LeBeau and/or Little.Yes, there are only three open slots this year. You can cross off the five non-skill position players, IMO. Modell isn't going to make it; tough to take Tags in a class this good. Coryell's resume isn't strong for a head coach, even if his innovations may make him HOF worthy. Students of the game should know and respect Coryell, but there's no room for a head coach with a 3-6 playoff record as head coach and only seven winning seasons. His resume strictly as a HC just isn't there. Guy/Tasker, while they'll have their supporters, are joke candidates IMO.That leaves 18 guys after Rice/Emmitt. I don't think Grimm is a good candidate - his career wasn't long enough and he didn't have enough big years to get in; to be a guard in the HOF, you need a spotless resume, and Grimm doesn't have that. Being great from '83 to '86 is not enough. I feel a little more sympathetic to Lester Hayes, but he suffers from the same argument and he'd be the next guy off my list.Of the remaining 16, any three of them would be okay with me. The HOF is the highest possible achievement a player can reach, so you're necessarily going to be bad mouthing outstanding players like Grimm and Hayes. You've got no choice when you're taking only three guys.None of the remaining three are no brainers. I'd probably put Randle and Dawson at the top of my list. After that, I can see good arguments for Brown, TD, Aeneas Williams, Carter, Rickey Jackson and Doleman. I'd pronanly go with TD, because I think he was one of the GOAT at his peak. You could say he suffers from the same arguments that I made to strike Hayes and Grimm, but I think the skill positions are different than the rest; as a skill position player, you can get in off a short peak of greatness and a terrific post-season. As a non-skill position player, you need longevity. I'd put TD in based on his dominant seasons and his dominant post-season play. If not TD, I'd probably go Tim Brown or Aeneas Williams. But it's very, very tough. I really could see arguments for any of the guys on the list.

You answered your own question but you don't really seem to believe in it......TD wasn't great enough for long enough, same as Grim and Hayes. I don't think A. Williams is a 1st timer either, not when you're being compared to Rice and Smith this year. When I think of Tim Brown, I think of a guy who's probably a Hall of Famer. He played for a long time and he was good till the end. Like you guys, it's tough to decide on the WR's outside of Rice. Trying to compare Wr's in different generations is difficult as there are so many things to compare and what we all perceive as important just isn't to other people.I guess if I had to pick, I'd bring in two 1st timers in Smith and Rice. Their careers stick out compared to the other two, so I think they get left off. I think you get 3 others from the old list.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

How is Dermonti Dawson not in???

He was every bit as good or better than Webster. His exclusion doesn't make any sense at all.RiceSmithDawsonWilliamsHaleywould be my choices

 

[Polar Dude]

Coryell's resume isn't strong for a head coach, even if his innovations may make him HOF worthy. Students of the game should know and respect Coryell, but there's no room for a head coach with a 3-6 playoff record as head coach and only seven winning seasons. His resume strictly as a HC just isn't there.

Those seven winning seasons were nearly miraculous for those franchises though. Both the Cardinals and the Chargers were franchises accustomed to not even being competitive. In both situations he guided those teams to nearly instantaneous turnarounds, despite being saddled with personnel guys who had a difficult time identifying talent (St. Louis) or who made poor decisions (The Chargers traded James Brooks after a sensational rookie year for a washed-up, overweight Pete Johnson straight up). After Coryell left the Cardinals, they went back to flatlining. Coryell managed to keep the Chargers competitive after their hey-day, but after he left, they became overwhelmingly awful again.I'm not saying Coryell should go in this year, not with this kind of competition, but there should be a place for a HC that did so much with so much going against him.

 

[Polar Dude]

Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

When people say things like this, I have to wonder if they have never heard of Elroy Hirsch, Lance Alworth, or a few other guys that had great speed, agility, and production at that WR position before Hayes even entered the NFL.

 

[Mister CIA]

Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

When people say things like this, I have to wonder if they have never heard of Elroy Hirsch, Lance Alworth, or a few other guys that had great speed, agility, and production at that WR position before Hayes even entered the NFL.

Does Cliff Branch belong in the HoF? ... Yes or no?

 

[Polar Dude]

Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

When people say things like this, I have to wonder if they have never heard of Elroy Hirsch, Lance Alworth, or a few other guys that had great speed, agility, and production at that WR position before Hayes even entered the NFL.

Does Cliff Branch belong in the HoF? ... Yes or no?

Probably, but not because he "changed the game immeasurably" because that is hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[Mister CIA]

Bob Hayes passed the baton to Cliff Branch, and collectively these two WRs changed the game immeasurably with speed and football abilities.

When people say things like this, I have to wonder if they have never heard of Elroy Hirsch, Lance Alworth, or a few other guys that had great speed, agility, and production at that WR position before Hayes even entered the NFL.

Does Cliff Branch belong in the HoF? ... Yes or no?

Probably, but not because he "changed the game immeasurably" because that is hyperbolic nonsense.

You win.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Smith/Rice/Sharpe are all top2 all time in their respective positions. After that it's tough, I'd go with 2 of Brown/Dawson/Kennedy/Williams and I cannot decide.

 

[SSOG]

I don't think Shannon Sharpe should make it. He was basically a WR playing TE and he doesn't come close to stacking up on the basis of receiving numbers.

This argument would be a lot more valid if Shannon Sharpe actually played WR. Denver rarely split him out wide, they kept him in to block more than Smith or McCaffrey, they never sent him as far downfield. Shannon Sharpe was a TE playing TE, albeit a TE not tasked with as much blocking responsibilities as other TEs of his day. No, his numbers don't compare favorably with the HoF WRs of his era... but that's because he wasn't playing WR!Even if you don't think his numbers are worthy, his impact on the game is. Shannon Sharpe ushered in a new era with a completely new breed of TE, much like Warren Sapp did at DT. It's true that there were other great receiving TEs before him (Winslow, Newsome, Ditka, etc), but Sharpe was the first of the hybrids, and he did a lot to change what GMs looked for in TEs.

Aeneas Williams should get in, but he should not be a 1st ballot HOFer. Let some of the other guys get in first.

Either a guy's a HoFer or he isn't. If voters think he's a HoFer, they should vote him into the HoF, regardless of how many times he's appeared before the committee.

 

[Chase Stuart]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1888

I wrote that last year comparing Art Monk to Shannon Sharpe. My main argument was that "the tight end and the wide receiver positions are not binary options but rather they fall on a continuum." I still don't know what I think of Sharpe -- I'm leaning towards saying he's HOF-worthy, but I see the argument against him. He's definitely been surpassed by Tony Gonzalez, who not only is a better pass catching TE but was a much better blocking TE. The argument against? Sharpe never ranked higher than 10th in the league in receiving yards. To be a HOF type player with those numbers, he had to be at least a pretty competent blocker.

 

[SSOG]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1888

I wrote that last year comparing Art Monk to Shannon Sharpe. My main argument was that "the tight end and the wide receiver positions are not binary options but rather they fall on a continuum." I still don't know what I think of Sharpe -- I'm leaning towards saying he's HOF-worthy, but I see the argument against him. He's definitely been surpassed by Tony Gonzalez, who not only is a better pass catching TE but was a much better blocking TE. The argument against? Sharpe never ranked higher than 10th in the league in receiving yards. To be a HOF type player with those numbers, he had to be at least a pretty competent blocker.

I saw it, but I think it's apples and oranges. Sharpe lined up at TE. Monk lined up at WR. Even if they had similar skillsets and such, that difference makes it difficult to do a direct comparison of their numbers. As I said, though, even if you don't think his numbers merit inclusion on their own, there's always the impact he had on the league. The whole concept of a "receiving TE" and a "blocking TE" primarily exists today because of Shannon Sharpe. And then, too, there's always the 8 pro bowls and 4 first-team AP All Pros. Maybe if he'd lined up at WR, he wouldn't have those. Maybe if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, too. It doesn't mean you can just ignore them. How many skill players with 4+ first-team AP All Pro awards aren't in the hall right now? How many skill players with 8+ Pro Bowls aren't in the hall right now?As if all of that wasn't enough, according to PFR, a list of the 10 players whose careers were most comparable to Sharpe consists of all 7 HoF TEs, plus an 8th guy who is a first-ballot lock once he's eligible. How many guys who can make a similar claim aren't HoFers? And, just to add a bit of icing, Sharpe also holds the record for consecutive postseason wins.

Any one or two of those factors would make Sharpe a HoFer. The combination of all of them (the numbers, the awards, the impact on the game, the comparisons to the all-time greats at his position, the postseason success) should have made him a slam-dunk first ballot pick last season. Even if you question one or two of those qualifications, shouldn't the rest of them be enough to still carry the day?

 

[thatguy]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1888

I wrote that last year comparing Art Monk to Shannon Sharpe. My main argument was that "the tight end and the wide receiver positions are not binary options but rather they fall on a continuum." I still don't know what I think of Sharpe -- I'm leaning towards saying he's HOF-worthy, but I see the argument against him. He's definitely been surpassed by Tony Gonzalez, who not only is a better pass catching TE but was a much better blocking TE. The argument against? Sharpe never ranked higher than 10th in the league in receiving yards. To be a HOF type player with those numbers, he had to be at least a pretty competent blocker.

I saw it, but I think it's apples and oranges. Sharpe lined up at TE. Monk lined up at WR. Even if they had similar skillsets and such, that difference makes it difficult to do a direct comparison of their numbers. As I said, though, even if you don't think his numbers merit inclusion on their own, there's always the impact he had on the league. The whole concept of a "receiving TE" and a "blocking TE" primarily exists today because of Shannon Sharpe. And then, too, there's always the 8 pro bowls and 4 first-team AP All Pros. Maybe if he'd lined up at WR, he wouldn't have those. Maybe if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, too. It doesn't mean you can just ignore them. How many skill players with 4+ first-team AP All Pro awards aren't in the hall right now? How many skill players with 8+ Pro Bowls aren't in the hall right now?As if all of that wasn't enough, according to PFR, a list of the 10 players whose careers were most comparable to Sharpe consists of all 7 HoF TEs, plus an 8th guy who is a first-ballot lock once he's eligible. How many guys who can make a similar claim aren't HoFers? And, just to add a bit of icing, Sharpe also holds the record for consecutive postseason wins.

Any one or two of those factors would make Sharpe a HoFer. The combination of all of them (the numbers, the awards, the impact on the game, the comparisons to the all-time greats at his position, the postseason success) should have made him a slam-dunk first ballot pick last season. Even if you question one or two of those qualifications, shouldn't the rest of them be enough to still carry the day?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, I don't buy the "Sharpe was a WR playing TE" argument. He should be a no-brainer.

And I know I will sound like a homer, but Terrell Davis should make it eventually. He didn't have longevity, but he was dominant enough for a long enough stretch to where he should make it. Without him, a 1st ballot HoFer, John Elway, probably doesn't have a ring. Without him, the Broncos don't win consecutive Super Bowls. Call me crazy, but when you are undoubtedly the best player on a team that wins two Super Bowls in a row, as well as being the best player in the league those seasons, you should be in the Hall, especially when you are arguably the best postseason RB ever. The way David tore apart the defenses of Miami, NY Jets and Atlanta (3rd, 7th and 8th, respectively in the NFL in total defense) in the playoffs following the '98 season was just absurd.

 

[hobbes4]

I hope Rickey Jackson is able to get in some how. He was as close to Lawrence Taylor as anybody during the 80s. Of all the Dome Patrol, he is our best bet. Sam Mills and Pat Swilling didn't play long enough. Tricky Rickey deserves in eventually.