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Holt - just let him go (1 Viewer)

BigRed

Footballguy
Does anyone really think he will "rebound" back to even last year's numbers (which were respectable but not amazing)? I'm not buying that getting rid of Linehan will be some magical fix and his 3/4 catches a game (if you're lucky) have to make you question IMO if he's even worth a roster spot, at least in "smaller" leagues or rosters where other possible upside guys or guys doing better might be avail. Those glory days are gone......

 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 02 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?

edited to fix....

 
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I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 92 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?
Holt was a rookie 1999

 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 92 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?
Holt was a rookie 1999
Too bad. He would have been closing in on Jerry Rice's record.
 
i would take holt and crochery for jennings any day! he will rebound i think though still have not seen him play this year so cant give you a personal opinion whats really wrong. i hear all this crap he cant get seperation, ect ect. but i dont fully beleive it.

i think its a matter of the coaches utilizing a game plan where he can suceed. and they will figure out something i bet!

 
Heck, I'm in a 6 team league and he is still on my roster. He's on the bench and will stay there until I see what happens wiyh the coaching change. But with the D being sooooo bad they will have to throw alot. He has potential, unfortunatly that may be all he has.

PEACE

 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 92 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?
I'm skeptical. Predictable soundbites from Haslett but nothing substantive to hang your hat on. He might as well have said, "We're going to try and not suck as bad for the rest of the season."

I can see Holt climbing back into WR3 territory regardless of a coaching change.

 
i would take holt and crochery for jennings any day!
In a start 4 wr league my guys are now OchoCinco, Jennings, AJ and Calvin. I could afford to do this. On the plus side of things, the Rams do have a very nice schedule come ff playoffs. Even if he stinks from here until that point, he should be a very nice option starting week 14. (Cardinals, Seahawks, Niners).
 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 02 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?
Holt was a rookie 1999
fixed to show 02. oops
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 92 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?
I'm skeptical. Predictable soundbites from Haslett but nothing substantive to hang your hat on. He might as well have said, "We're going to try and not suck as bad for the rest of the season."

I can see Holt climbing back into WR3 territory regardless of a coaching change.
Of course things like this are always coachspeak and may not happen as stated. But we are talking about one of the best and most consistant WRs in the league from 2000 to 07. Even as a #3 he is still worth keeping and they have the bye week for the new coach and the team to get back to playing right. Besides its not like Bennett or Looker are going to catch anything....
 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 02 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?

edited to fix....
WAS, DAL and AZ are not great pass defenses. He also faces SF X 2, ARI X2, MIA, CHI, SEA where he should get some production. Won't finish with 90 catches, but has potential to be a solid WR3 or nice WR2. I wouldn't just let him go for nothing.
 
Someone like Holt I see as "situation good, performance bad" which is preferable to guys performing badly in a bad situation (Ocho).

The overall lameness of the Rams demotes Holt from a must-start, but this team will have to throw, and Bulger-to-Holt still looks good to me as long as he's not my WR1. I traded for him last week.

 
I think he rebounds. Call it regression to the mean.

As others have stated, he has consistently been one of the top guys. With or without Bulger. With or Without an Oline. StL has obviously been catastrophically bad this season, at least for the first 3 weeks. They showed some life against Buffalo. Linehan had obviously alienated the entire team.

I do think things will get better there. Not saying they will get to 8-8 or whatever. But they will get better. The trio of Bulger/Sjax/Holt is too good not to rebound. Gaining stability with the coach will help. I'm sure the tension level in that clubhouse is much lower now that things have happened.

I had offers to trade him recently. I chose to keep him over Hines Ward.

 
This is one of those situations where I feel you have to bite the bullet and ride it out. I absolutely LOVE the coaching change (and QB job back to Bulger), cause it gives me hope that things "can" turn around here. The road Holt was on, was a road to nowhere.........it really can't get any worse IMO. Hopefully these changes will be a positive one for the Rams offense, although I'm not expecting a miracle.......just decent production would be welcomed at this point.

 
There's no way you drop him unless the circumstances are really unusual. I've had plenty of people sniffing around trying to buy him low in the league where I own him, so he does have some trade value at the very least.

I think you have to ride it out and hope he gets better. He pretty much has nowhere to go but up as long as he stays healthy. If he has a couple of good games against soft opponents, I'll probably see if I can move him in a deal just because the o-line play is a concern.

 
I packaged together Holt/Cotchery and landed Jennings.
Now I can rest comfortably with this knowledge of your trade. Thank you.
You're welcome. I find that for some people, posts such as this help them to guage someone's current trade value. I put my post out there and I hope the people that will benefit from it appreciate it and those that don't find it useful will ignore it and not be a tool about matters.Thanks for not being one of those tools.
 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 02 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?

edited to fix....
Unless the new HC is allowed to arm this particular O-line with shield like Roman soldiers, Bulger will still eat grass... alot.

 
If he runs more three step drops and short routes it might help out Bulger a lot. Slow developing plays are not going to work, WR/RB screens, draw plays? Something to slow down the pass rush.

 
I am curious the thoughts on Holt as well.

He has had over 90 catches every year since 02 and even had 93 last year with his slow start. The press conference by the new coach talked about making sure their playmakers, Jackson adn Holt, get the ball and making sure their OLine gives Bulger time to throw.

The bye week is at a perfect time for them to make improvements. Their schedule isnt easy with Was, Dallas, NE, AZ and NYJ but i dont see it as being the toughest. I think Holt can bounce back and make a very good #2 WR for your FF team. I personally am planning on running with TO, R White and Holt as my top 3.

Agree or disagree?

edited to fix....
Are we talking about the same AZ, NYJ and Dallas pass Ds that are getting torched almost every game? :moneybag:
 
If he runs more three step drops and short routes it might help out Bulger a lot. Slow developing plays are not going to work, WR/RB screens, draw plays? Something to slow down the pass rush.
Problem is he has little YAC ability so if the Rams start running a lot of these plays it's Avery who they will probably run them for.People age differently. In Holt's case I don't know if it's age, injuries or just not playing for the greatest show on turf but he's been declining for years now. He yearly fantasy numbers have declined 5 years in a row. In terms of fantasy PPG he has declined 4 out of the last 5 years. I saw nothing this offseason to suggest him stemming that tide. I think his decline went fairly unnoticed because his numbers were so great that even with some decline he was still very strong. I think we will continue to see him decline this season but I can't imagine a league were he is not rosterable. He's going to have some big games and still might be a solid WR2, especially in PPR leagues, but I believe the days of him being a WR1 stopped two years ago.
 
If he runs more three step drops and short routes it might help out Bulger a lot. Slow developing plays are not going to work, WR/RB screens, draw plays? Something to slow down the pass rush.
So Linehan didn't know this but Halsett does? I'm just saying...I also don't know that Holt has the off-the-line acceleration anymore the get separation like he used to. If CB's are not in fear of his deep speed, they are going to play up on him which isn't a good thing. He's not the most physical receiver anyway and there won't be the same cushion he used to have which could have in the past been exploited with quick-hit patterns.To me, the re-insertion of Bulger into the lineup by Haslett simply rolls back the Holt clock to weeks 1-3. That wasn't working too great before. In fact, I'd expect Haslett to be more commited to the run than was Linehan. Unless the running game really starts clicking and gashing people, I don't see it opening up the passing game enough to give Holt a significant spike in production.
 
He's done, but worth keeping around as your WR4 or WR5. I wouldn't put him in a lineup until he shows something.

 
AnonymousBob said:
buck naked said:
I packaged together Holt/Cotchery and landed Jennings.
Now I can rest comfortably with this knowledge of your trade. Thank you.
You're welcome. I find that for some people, posts such as this help them to guage someone's current trade value. I put my post out there and I hope the people that will benefit from it appreciate it and those that don't find it useful will ignore it and not be a tool about matters.Thanks for not being one of those tools.
I will not be using this trade as a gauge factor with any of my trades this year. Just being honest. It's a very questionable trade.
 
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I packaged MJD/ Holt for Addai. I just didn't see him getting back to last year's numbers and I already had TO, Boldin, and Cotchery as my starters.

 
He's done, but worth keeping around
:rolleyes: If he's done, why not take a flyer elsewhere? Again I realize probably not as realistic/advisable in bigger leagues, but basically I'm kicking around reputation vs actual production.PS apologies for not having a "I offered/traded Holt for blah" post to make.
 
This news doesn't hurt. From RotoWorld:

New coach Jim Haslett intends to get Torry Holt the ball more when St. Louis comes off its Week 5 bye.

"I would like to see Torry touch the ball a little bit more, especially early in the game," Haslett said. Getting "Big Game" the ball will be one of the Rams' focuses during bye-week game planning. Expect his numbers to rise.

Source: Associated Press

 
Persnally, I'm pretty torn on Holt. The Rams are such a gigantic mess, I just don't know if I can trust him. After week 1 I shipped him off for Lee Evans in 1 league. I feel pretty good about that deal.

Now, I have been offered Holt or E. Royal in exchange for Warner. If someone told me before the season that I would seriously be leaning towards taking Royal over Holt in such a deal, I would of laughed at them and called them crazy. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

So whoever is talking about outright dropping Holt is nuts. The guy still has trade value. You should be able to get at least something decent in return in return for him. Heck some owners might be willing to give up a wr like Royal, DJax, Evans, etc. in exchange for Holt. He's still got a big name.

I don't think I'm buying though. Why try and get Holt when Avery is on the WW in most leagues and it looks like he'll be getting more involved in the offense from here on out. Personally, I would trade Holt for whatever you can get, and pick up Avery if you want a wr on the Rams.

 
One thing about Haslett teams is that the main guys on offense always got the ball. Other than '01, Horn always had the lions share of catches. Similarly, Deuce didn't share time with anyone when healthy. In fact, Ricky didn't even share time with Deuce the one year they were together. However, Saunders could very well be running the show and all of that is moot.

 
I have no idea why they were not targeting Holt more. He doesn't need to go downfield to be effective, and short routes would help the OL woes.

I think seatownfavorite is onto something - but Bulger needs to get on the same page.

If you look at Holt's play by play, production is not really the issue, but targets are. If you look at the week where he caught his lone TD, he was targetted, and caught, a lot of short passes. Catching alot of short passes opens the deep routes - it has been Cinco's bread and butter for years.

 
I have no idea why they were not targeting Holt more. He doesn't need to go downfield to be effective, and short routes would help the OL woes.I think seatownfavorite is onto something - but Bulger needs to get on the same page. If you look at Holt's play by play, production is not really the issue, but targets are. If you look at the week where he caught his lone TD, he was targetted, and caught, a lot of short passes. Catching alot of short passes opens the deep routes - it has been Cinco's bread and butter for years.
I agree with this. However, I also think he's been hurt by suspect QB play. I didn't think Bulger looked very good when he was starting and Green was obviously rusty last week.That said, Holt topped 90 receptions last season even though the Rams had major issues in terms of the offensive line, QB, the lack of a No. 2 WR when Bruce was hurt and the lack of a strong RB threat when Jackson was hurt. I don't see anything about the situation this season that's worse and it's arguably better given how Jackson has remained healthy so far. So given all that and combined with a very nice schedule in the second half I really do think Holt can return to being a quality WR2 (moreso in PPR leagues than standard scoring leagues). Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, but I'd be less inclined to have this kind of optimism if he hadn't put up strong PPR numbers just one season ago on a team that was just as big of a disaster (and arguably even more of one) than the team he's on this season.
 
Hasn't it been said that Linehan and Holt detested each other? Maybe Linehan deliberately kept Holt from being to involved to much in the offense. It would help his value if he was targeted more, it's bound to.

 
Ok, I've just done a 180 on Holt. Right now, he's ranked as the #46 wr. That's bottom tier WR4 territory in a 12 team league.

Looking at his stats, I've thrown out his week 1 stinker, as I don't think that will happen again. I believe that was an aberration. His last 3 games he has 14 catches 178 yards and 1 TD on 22 targets, which translates to about 5 catches 60 yards .3333 td's per game on 7-8 targets per game. I think this has got to be his floor right now. Common sense tells me that the Rams will make an effort to get him the ball more with Linehan gone. The Rams are going to be behind most games so they are going to have to throw the rock.

He also has a juicy playoff schedule where weather won't be an issue in any of the games:

week 14 - @AZ

week 15 - SEA

week 16 - SF

If Holt starts getting double digit targets per game, which is very possible now imo, I think he puts up at least WR3 #'s from here on out, with WR2 upside. Ok I'm buying. :unsure:

 
I don't get where some of you are saying the schedule is so favorable. Looks kinda medium to me.

Anyway it's possible, but I'm not buying his rebound. I think most weeks he nets you 4-5 catches tops and usually does not score. Even in PPR he's kind of the E James of WRs - bound to get you modest pts, but usually little more and very unlikely to have a big day (yeah I know EJ just had one - hold your breath about it happening again).

 
Hasn't it been said that Linehan and Holt detested each other? Maybe Linehan deliberately kept Holt from being to involved to much in the offense. It would help his value if he was targeted more, it's bound to.
There were some fairly well establshed rumors about confrontations, which both parties denied.That said, teams tend to circle the wagons on internal disputes. Public displays by guys like Terrel Owens and coaches throwing players under the bus like Coughlin did are rarities. And I would not expect public airing of dirty laundry from a pair of fairly classy and respected guys like Linehan and Holt.
 
I don't get where some of you are saying the schedule is so favorable. Looks kinda medium to me.
According to Carlton, the Rams are tied with Seattle for third most favorable remaining schedule for WRs - playing teams giving up an average of 22.3 pts to opposing WRs.
 
I don't get where some of you are saying the schedule is so favorable. Looks kinda medium to me.
Week 9: vs. ArizonaWeek 10: at NY JetsWeek 11: at SFWeek 13: vs. MiamiWeek 14: at ArizonaWeek 16: vs. SFWeek 17: at AtlantaI would view all of these games as very strong matchups for any passing game - even the Rams. Plus, you have Dallas in Week 6 which should be a game which sees the Rams forced to throw a ton. Of his remaining 12 games, seven and possibly eight could result in good to great numbers for Holt. Granted, matchups don't always play to form but if you're looking for a reason to have some optimism for Holt I think his schedule would be one to hang your hat on.
 

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