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"Holy crap Dad, English class was crazy" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So he wouldn't get in any trouble if something happened while he wasn't there? It's 8th grade - still fairly young.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
What if terrorists attacked, or a there was a flood. Or what about if there was a bear.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
We stop coddling kids when we stop coddling adults. This isnt about that, it was about legality. If there is a law against it, does it apply to kids as well. That was my point.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I love the lesson. There should be more of that in schools. Make the kids think about something else than passing a standardized test.
As for illegally recording them. I'd bet the school has a code of conduct that included surveillance. With all the fear of school shootings, I would assume schools have tons of video cameras now. And with those cameras come the requisite waiver to be surveilled.
Now, if the kids got in trouble for the stuff they said, I'd have a problem with this and I would hope the teacher not only deleted it but showed the kids he deleted it before he got to the really bad stiff.
As for illegally recording them. I'd bet the school has a code of conduct that included surveillance. With all the fear of school shootings, I would assume schools have tons of video cameras now. And with those cameras come the requisite waiver to be surveilled.
Now, if the kids got in trouble for the stuff they said, I'd have a problem with this and I would hope the teacher not only deleted it but showed the kids he deleted it before he got to the really bad stiff.
sbonomo
Footballguy
Brony
Footballguy
" That's all there was. And yet, it speaks volumes. A low rumple. A metallic 'squink.' A 'glonk.' Someone crying out..."Dear God!"
If the teacher's intention was to record this to dig up dirt and blackmail the kids, that would be one thing. That wasn't his intent and if the kids weren't talking ####, this would be non-story. This is a little on the teacher for lack of foresight and a little on the kids for talking #### behind someone's back.
If the teacher's intention was to record this to dig up dirt and blackmail the kids, that would be one thing. That wasn't his intent and if the kids weren't talking ####, this would be non-story. This is a little on the teacher for lack of foresight and a little on the kids for talking #### behind someone's back.
Ned
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
It's time for Ethan to go rogue and break in and delete the recording.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Not before they devise a kookie plan back in their home base that involves kids with bionics. Either that, or I have to stop paying attention when my kids watch that show on Netflix about the kids with bionics
Nigel
Footballguy
No school today, so no update.
I figured the legality issue would come up but that's not going to be an issue. In a public school I'm sure some parents would go nuts over this (social media, threaten lawsuits, etc) but pretty sure there won't be an issue on that front.
i didn't mention it in the first post but all the kids like the teacher. What set the kids off was his apparent mistreatment of Ethan. Ethan's phony explanation for why he was taken outside and given detention was absurd, and left the kids no choice but to defend their friend/peer. The piling on of Mr Smith was collateral damage - really not surprising.
Im sure Mr Smith, based on his instructions to Ethan, expected to hear him trying hard to convince the kids to break the rules and follow him out of class. He was probably hoping Ethan succeeded. It went a different way though and I don't think he's going to hold it against any of them. Hopefully he has a sense of humor.
There is a parents night on 10/5 where we all do a run through the kids schedule, we'll have 20 min in English with all of the other parents. I'm sure this will come up.
I figured the legality issue would come up but that's not going to be an issue. In a public school I'm sure some parents would go nuts over this (social media, threaten lawsuits, etc) but pretty sure there won't be an issue on that front.
i didn't mention it in the first post but all the kids like the teacher. What set the kids off was his apparent mistreatment of Ethan. Ethan's phony explanation for why he was taken outside and given detention was absurd, and left the kids no choice but to defend their friend/peer. The piling on of Mr Smith was collateral damage - really not surprising.
Im sure Mr Smith, based on his instructions to Ethan, expected to hear him trying hard to convince the kids to break the rules and follow him out of class. He was probably hoping Ethan succeeded. It went a different way though and I don't think he's going to hold it against any of them. Hopefully he has a sense of humor.
There is a parents night on 10/5 where we all do a run through the kids schedule, we'll have 20 min in English with all of the other parents. I'm sure this will come up.
jhib
Footballguy
It would be really interesting to see what happened next if he came back to find a broken pair of eyeglasses, 2 dead boys, and the class hamster's head on a stake in the middle of the room.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
A lot of people in this thread need to remove the stick from their butts. My Junior High/High school teachers and principals would be on their way to Guantanamo based on the responses in here.
sublimeone
Footballguy
I'm surprised so many of you think it's perfectly fine to secretly record the class. If this happened to my kid I'd talk to the teacher... something along the line of 'I understand what you were trying to accomplish and I appreciate the creativity but for your own sake I wouldn't record the kids without their knowledge... I could see this majorly backfiring on you in the future.'
sublimeone
Footballguy
My primary concern would be some overzealous parent going on a crusade to have the teacher fired.
Why would the teacher be fired?
ETA - and what does that have to do with my hypothetical kid in his class?
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IC FBGCav
Footballguy
All my English teacher(female) taught us was that the movie theater downtown floor wasn't sticky because people spilled soft drinks but because they showed X-rated movies at night. :truestory:I picked my 8th grade son up from school today, and the thread title is what he said to me as soon as he got in the car. Then he told me what went down.
In the middle of class the teacher abruptly paused and asked my son's buddy Ethan to meet him outside in the hall. Ethan and Mr. Smith disappeared for a couple of minutes, then returned. Mr. Smith then told the class that he had to step out for a minute, would be right back. After he left the boys asked Ethan what happened, and he told them Mr. Smith had heard him talking crap about some other boys and gave him 4 hours detention. The other boys were shocked, it wasn't like Ethan to get in trouble and it was out of character for Mr. Smith to come down so hard. Minutes passed and the conversation among the boys (9 of them) escalated, kids busting Ethan's chops and also railing on Mr. Smith..."What a ####-move!" "That's bull####!" "He must be on the rag"...they made fun of his clothes, his facial hair...it went on an on. The room was buzzing with banter until finally Mr. Smith opened the door quickly and walked in. The room went silent in an awkward way as he entered, and Mr. Smith said "Sorry I took so long, what were you guys talking about?". They glanced around at each other but nobody answered him. As they sat there he walked over to his computer, pressed a button, and the 8 minute conversation he missed started replaying on the speakers.
Charlie said every kid's face turned ghost-white, a couple buried their faces in their hands and shook their heads. The recoding played for a couple of minutes, a few mild curse words were heard but it hadn't yet gotten into some of the stuff they were really dreading him hearing. At that point Ethan raised his hand and asked Mr. Smith to stop the tape, "I say some pretty bad stuff coming up soon and I really don't want you to hear it." Mr. Smith stopped the recording and said he may or may not listen to it later. And at that point let everyone know what this was all about...
He had taken Ethan into the hall and told him that he was going to leave class for 10 minutes, and he wanted Ethan to go back in the room and "try to convince all of the boys to leave the classroom". So Ethan when Ethan returned to class, the boys asked him what was going on and he quickly came up with the phony story about detention. Then he made up something else about leaving something in the library and wanting the other kids to come with him to get it, but the kids were like "wtf that's stupid" so he quickly gave up. Then the Mr. Smith-bashing started, and Ethan, who was sort of in on it but had no idea about the recording, was one of the heaviest bashers!
The whole point was that they are reading Lord of the Flies and Mr. Smith wanted to try to replicate the boys being on an island with no adults, and how that might effect how they speak and act.
Mission accomplished Mr. Smith!!
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
sublimeone
Footballguy
Are you asking me to list all the possible scenarios that could play out if an overzealous parent/group of parents found this whole production creepy and wanted to try and get the guy removed?
I have no idea what your ETA is asking.
Well you started out with the observation that so many were ok with the teacher secretly recording the class. Presumably the only reason not to be OK, would be if it impacted our child in the class. Your explanation however, seems to be limited to our support of the teacher, and advising him not to do it so he does not get fired. There is a bit of a disconnect between your initial observation, and you follow-up.
What he did was both legal, and enlightening. I don't understand why any parent would push for his dismissal, nor why any school would entertain such a petition.
No kidding. What a loser mentality.So you like getting the least out of your education dollars. Here, get back in the :box:
If the teacher simply blows off the comments (he was a student at one time and probably did the same....who hasn't) then that is a great teacher.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
Based on this, your son attends a private school, correct? If so, is it boys only? If is mixed, did the girls say anything?c
Nigel
Footballguy
Private, boys-only, grades 7 - 12. Short of molestation I think most parents have a "do what you want with them" attitude.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
Schools should stop trying to teach lessons in a way that might make reading a book interesting. It should all be bullet points and lectures.
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
As a teacher, there is little doubt in my mind that this teacher had the approval to leave his class unsupervised and record their interactions. I doubt that the teacher was in the office but rather, he was within earshot of the classroom. I just think he selected the wrong student to persuade others to leave the classroom...the kid didn't have it in him. The teacher didn't get the results he was looking for.
A few thoughts:
1. Leaving students unsupervised is a Cardinal Sin for teachers. There are exceptions such as health emergencies for either teacher or student, and even in these instances, a teacher should attempt to have someone in the class in a supervisory role.
2. Recording students: Yes, schools have cameras near main entrances, hallways, cafeterias, gymnasiums, but seldom in classrooms. This is publically reported by the school district. In this instance, as long as the teacher intended to share the recording with only that specific recorded class, it should be fine. If it's part of his lesson plan and the principal approved, then everything is above the table. Surreptitiously recording students without approval from the principal and parents/guardians is another Cardinal Sin. Teachers that seek National Board Certification regularly record video and audio in their classrooms as part of a portfolio they submit to the certifying board. The teachers must receive permission from all parents/guardians of students in the class they wish to record.
A few thoughts:
1. Leaving students unsupervised is a Cardinal Sin for teachers. There are exceptions such as health emergencies for either teacher or student, and even in these instances, a teacher should attempt to have someone in the class in a supervisory role.
2. Recording students: Yes, schools have cameras near main entrances, hallways, cafeterias, gymnasiums, but seldom in classrooms. This is publically reported by the school district. In this instance, as long as the teacher intended to share the recording with only that specific recorded class, it should be fine. If it's part of his lesson plan and the principal approved, then everything is above the table. Surreptitiously recording students without approval from the principal and parents/guardians is another Cardinal Sin. Teachers that seek National Board Certification regularly record video and audio in their classrooms as part of a portfolio they submit to the certifying board. The teachers must receive permission from all parents/guardians of students in the class they wish to record.
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Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
sbonomo
Footballguy
@Nigel - You should also use this as an opportunity to sit with your son and figure out why he joined the "herd" mentality. He knew it was not a real situation yet he joined the mob and bad mouthed the teacher, who it would appear he actually likes, with the mob. It show his immaturity obviously but, the entire situation can be used as a good talking point to help him gain more confidence. Cool teacher IMO.
KCitons
Footballguy
My high school sociology teacher was fired for showing the uncensored version of Breakfast Club to Seniors. He was one of the most liked teachers in the whole high school and the course was an elective only offered to seniors. Unfortunately, this was a private catholic school and he wasn't a priest or a brother. ( and before you ask, the religious brother, not the "what's up my brother").
Also it was in the late 80's before people cried over everything.
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Imagine how boring that movie would be if Richard Vernon stayed in the library the entire time and not left the students unsupervised.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Cool idea by the teacher. Kids learn a lesson and will remember this story for rest of their lives. I'm sure the teacher isn't an idiot, he's not gonna hold a grudge or feel bad about how the kids reacted. It didn't go according to his plan but that makes it even better and he's probably getting a good laugh out of it.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I think this is all an experiment conducted by Nigel to see how we would all respond when he wasn't in the thread...
This reminds me of a class in Game Theory that I taught to gifted Middle school students. When we got to Prisoner's Dilemma, instead of "telling them the answer", my TA and I would set up a ruse to pull two kids out of class and subject them to an "interrogation" as if they had been caught doing something punishable. Despite their giftedness, very few students knew it was fake so they took it very seriously. Eventually every kid in class would have done the simulation then we'd debrief afterwards. It was a great lesson but by the early naughts, a few kids cried when we did it and administration pulled the plug. Understandable, but I loved that lesson.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
As a middle school admin, if one of my teachers leaves a class unattended for 10 min, we are going to have some issues. 14 year olds can make a lot worse decisions than bad mouthing a teacher in 10 minutes.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
On recording students - many schools have cameras in classrooms these days...my school has them in nearly all. As for the permission form from parents/guardians, that is only for the release of the video, not the actual recording. Teachers are well within their rights to record a class they are teaching. Many types of professional learning, observations, and feedback involve the recording of classes. The only time a teacher would need parent permission is if they were going to share the video with an outsider.
