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"Holy crap Dad, English class was crazy" (1 Viewer)

On recording students - many schools have cameras in classrooms these days...my school has them in nearly all.  As for the permission form from parents/guardians, that is only for the release of the video, not the actual recording.  Teachers are well within their rights to record a class they are teaching.  Many types of professional learning, observations, and feedback involve the recording of classes.  The only time a teacher would need parent permission is if they were going to share the video with an outsider.   




 
The bolded is where I disagree with you. Unless there is an expressed interest/reason for recording, a teacher should never secretly record classroom interactions.

While my experience is such that I've never encountered cameras in the classroom, I wouldn't resist. Heck, post my class online.

 
As a middle school admin, if one of my teachers leaves a class unattended for 10 min, we are going to have some issues. 14 year olds can make a lot worse decisions than bad mouthing a teacher in 10 minutes.  
you can't be serious.  you're underestimating 14-year-old kids.  sure they may goof off, but they aren't morons who can't take care of themselves for 10 minutes.

 
Oh for #### sakes.


you can't be serious.  you're underestimating 14-year-old kids.  sure they may goof off, but they aren't morons who can't take care of themselves for 10 minutes.
It's a simple liability issue.  The school is responsible for those kids.  Aside from using the bathroom they need to be supervised at all times.  Period.

I've taught 12-14 year olds for the last 20 years. Trust me...you're overestimating them.

 
It's a simple liability issue.  The school is responsible for those kids.  Aside from using the bathroom they need to be supervised at all times.  Period.

I've taught 12-14 year olds for the last 20 years. Trust me...you're overestimating them.
I dunno, teachers left our rooms all the time for 10-15 minutes when I was growing up and nothing bad ever happened.

Maybe today with all the lawsuits it's different but kinda ridiculous to think 14-year-old kids are so incompetent.   They aren't 4-5-year-olds who don't know how to take care of themselves, at least i hope they aren't.

 
It's a simple liability issue.  The school is responsible for those kids.  Aside from using the bathroom they need to be supervised at all times.  Period.

I've taught 12-14 year olds for the last 20 years. Trust me...you're overestimating them.
I don't underestimate your experience and perspective but ####### kids generally don't get into this school, and if they do most don't make it back for a second year. They're all happy to be there and very aware there's a much higher standard for conduct than there is in a public school. They're still kids and yes, they sat around the table and talked smack about a teacher they thought screwed over a classmate, but there's less risk leaving these kids alone than there is your average 12th grade class. Sounds dooshy/"my kid is special" but that's how it is. 

 
I don't underestimate your experience and perspective but ####### kids generally don't get into this school, and if they do most don't make it back for a second year. They're all happy to be there and very aware there's a much higher standard for conduct than there is in a public school. They're still kids and yes, they sat around the table and talked smack about a teacher they thought screwed over a classmate, but there's less risk leaving these kids alone than there is your average 12th grade class. Sounds dooshy/"my kid is special" but that's how it is. 
LOOK AT ME, MY KID IS NOT AS MUCH OF AN ASHSHOLE AS YOUR KID!

 
As a middle school admin, if one of my teachers leaves a class unattended for 10 min, we are going to have some issues. 14 year olds can make a lot worse decisions than bad mouthing a teacher in 10 minutes.  
If so, you're part of the problem with education nowadays.

The kids didn't know he'd be gone for 10 min.  From their perspective, he could return at any time.  He was also likely right outside the classroom listening in.  Get off your administrative high horse and back the good teacher that taught the kids a great lesson in a fun way.

 
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ILUVBEER99 said:
I dunno, teachers left our rooms all the time for 10-15 minutes when I was growing up and nothing bad ever happened.

Maybe today with all the lawsuits it's different but kinda ridiculous to think 14-year-old kids are so incompetent.   They aren't 4-5-year-olds who don't know how to take care of themselves, at least i hope they aren't.
If you went to 100 schools around the country and asked 100 principals "Hey, is it cool if the teacher steps out and leaves the kids alone for 10 minutes?"  you're going to get 100 answers that sound like "absolutely not".  Prince Myshkin, a school admin, said the same thing.

 
If you went to 100 schools around the country and asked 100 principals "Hey, is it cool if the teacher steps out and leaves the kids alone for 10 minutes?"  you're going to get 100 answers that sound like "absolutely not".  Prince Myshkin, a school admin, said the same thing.
I realize the '90s were a different time, when the great wilds were yet to be explored and the invention of a cell phone was still a Zach Morris fueled dream, but during a scared straight presentation in 8th grade health class, the teacher decided the best time to go make copies was when the speaker pulled out the knife he used to stab his brother.

Of course, once the teacher left to make his precious copies, we started talking #### about him, so maybe not as much has changed as we'd like.

 
If you went to 100 schools around the country and asked 100 principals "Hey, is it cool if the teacher steps out and leaves the kids alone for 10 minutes?"  you're going to get 100 answers that sound like "absolutely not".  Prince Myshkin, a school admin, said the same thing.
My High School Junior year history teacher used to give us pop quizes and then leave the classroom to smoke (weed I think). Guy loved talking about Tammany Hall.

 
Prince Myshkin said:
As a middle school admin, if one of my teachers leaves a class unattended for 10 min, we are going to have some issues. 14 year olds can make a lot worse decisions than bad mouthing a teacher in 10 minutes.  
What kind of world do we live in that a 14 year old cannot be trusted alone for 10 minutes?  In two years they drive and two more they can join the military.  Parents need to take a hard look in the mirror if this is true.

 
What kind of world do we live in that a 14 year old cannot be trusted alone for 10 minutes?  In two years they drive and two more they can join the military.  Parents need to take a hard look in the mirror if this is true.
I agree - in theory.  And, of course, it is class dependent - some classes are better left unsupervised than others.

But, unfortunately we live in a litigious society, where personal accountability is on the decline.  The reason that principals do not want classes left unattended is that IF something happened in that moment, the school would get all of the blame - so its easier to say "Don't leave your classroom!"

 
I agree - in theory.  And, of course, it is class dependent - some classes are better left unsupervised than others.

But, unfortunately we live in a litigious society, where personal accountability is on the decline.  The reason that principals do not want classes left unattended is that IF something happened in that moment, the school would get all of the blame - so its easier to say "Don't leave your classroom!"
Fix that, and you'll have fixed a great many things

 
What kind of world do we live in that a 14 year old cannot be trusted alone for 10 minutes?  In two years they drive and two more they can join the military.  Parents need to take a hard look in the mirror if this is true.
Law Suit World(TM)

 
Trying not to get too far off subject here but how many of you parents would sue the school if little johnny fell and hurt himself while acting like a jackass unsupervised for 10-minutes?  My god, i hate the world we live in sometimes. 

ETA: if my idiot kid hurt himself while being a jackass, not only would i not sue the school, he/she would be volunteering at the soup kitchen for the foreseeable future.  

 
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Trying not to get too far off subject here but how many of you parents would sue the school if little johnny fell and hurt himself while acting like a jackass unsupervised for 10-minutes?  My god, i hate the world we live in sometimes. 

ETA: if my idiot kid hurt himself while being a jackass, not only would i not sue the school, he/she would be volunteering at the soup kitchen for the foreseeable future.  
It just takes one.

A few years back we went through a very long and very stupid lawsuit.

8th grade kid was recovering from knee surgery.  He was allowed to participate in only a few activities in PE (light jogging, some exercises).   One day the teacher has the high-jump pit set up.  Kid knows he's not supposed to participate.   Of course while the teacher is supervising some other students, kid attempts the high-jump and ####s up his knee again.

Parents sued the district claiming the teacher did not supervise closely enough.  They claimed that their son was a super-duper athlete and now his chances of getting an athletic scholarship were in danger.  It took a year and a half for it to finally be settled (actually went to trial but family took a settlement before going to jury).  

Just a gigantic pain in the ### for everyone involved.  

 
It just takes one.

A few years back we went through a very long and very stupid lawsuit.

8th grade kid was recovering from knee surgery.  He was allowed to participate in only a few activities in PE (light jogging, some exercises).   One day the teacher has the high-jump pit set up.  Kid knows he's not supposed to participate.   Of course while the teacher is supervising some other students, kid attempts the high-jump and ####s up his knee again.

Parents sued the district claiming the teacher did not supervise closely enough.  They claimed that their son was a super-duper athlete and now his chances of getting an athletic scholarship were in danger.  It took a year and a half for it to finally be settled (actually went to trial but family took a settlement before going to jury).  

Just a gigantic pain in the ### for everyone involved.  
I hope those parents get gonorrhea.  They are exactly what is wrong with the world today.

 
Just picked him up, substitute teacher! I really hope it's coincidence and not that a parent complained/him getting in trouble.

 
I don't have any issues, but with one thing.  When Mr. Smith stopped the tape and said he may play it or may not play the rest of it.  To me that is a game he's playing with the kids. 

He should have just played a couple seconds of it and then they know he recorded it.  After he stopped it, delete it with them seeing it, and then the kids don't have to worry about him hearing the comments.  there will be parents that think their kid will be graded unfairly and now brings in doubt. Or the kids feel awkward coming to class knowing that he likely listened to their private conversations.  

No need to make that comment, to me that isn't part of the lesson.

 
I don't have any issues, but with one thing.  When Mr. Smith stopped the tape and said he may play it or may not play the rest of it.  To me that is a game he's playing with the kids. 

He should have just played a couple seconds of it and then they know he recorded it.  After he stopped it, delete it with them seeing it, and then the kids don't have to worry about him hearing the comments.  there will be parents that think their kid will be graded unfairly and now brings in doubt. Or the kids feel awkward coming to class knowing that he likely listened to their private conversations.  

No need to make that comment, to me that isn't part of the lesson.
100% agree.

 
I don't have any issues, but with one thing.  When Mr. Smith stopped the tape and said he may play it or may not play the rest of it.  To me that is a game he's playing with the kids. 

He should have just played a couple seconds of it and then they know he recorded it.  After he stopped it, delete it with them seeing it, and then the kids don't have to worry about him hearing the comments.  there will be parents that think their kid will be graded unfairly and now brings in doubt. Or the kids feel awkward coming to class knowing that he likely listened to their private conversations.  

No need to make that comment, to me that isn't part of the lesson.
oh come on.  How about the kids are responsible for their actions?  14 is old enough to start owning your baggage and admitting when you are wrong.  Once again, another example of problems with the world today.  

 
It's a federal law to legally record a conversation at least person must consent.  Since the teacher wasn't part of the conversation, and I'm assuming none of the boys or their parents consented, it's against the law 

18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d)
I am sure this has been covered, but did he record a conversation or did he record his classroom and people decided to have conversations in a public building at a public school? 

 
oh come on.  How about the kids are responsible for their actions?  14 is old enough to start owning your baggage and admitting when you are wrong.  Once again, another example of problems with the world today.  
I kind of agree that it would have been a cool move to delete it there. He knew he had the boys in a tough spot, had them very uncomfortable. Lesson was learned. Could be he just didn't think of that option on the fly but can redeem himself with how he handles it.

 
I don't have any issues, but with one thing.  When Mr. Smith stopped the tape and said he may play it or may not play the rest of it.  To me that is a game he's playing with the kids. 

He should have just played a couple seconds of it and then they know he recorded it.  After he stopped it, delete it with them seeing it, and then the kids don't have to worry about him hearing the comments.  there will be parents that think their kid will be graded unfairly and now brings in doubt. Or the kids feel awkward coming to class knowing that he likely listened to their private conversations.  

No need to make that comment, to me that isn't part of the lesson.
Excellent point. I get what the teacher went for, but it's not something I would really do. I might light and tell the kids I recorded it, generate some fear and build-up before revealing I didn't. Then deliver the purpose. I don'tl ike the idea of the kids thinking the rest of the year that I could be recording them. Creepy. 

 
I kind of agree that it would have been a cool move to delete it there. He knew he had the boys in a tough spot, had them very uncomfortable. Lesson was learned. Could be he just didn't think of that option on the fly but can redeem himself with how he handles it.
On the fly? Teaching isn't improv, we plan things out. 

 
Teaching is like being a great Billy Wilder-esque auteur. You have a script in your head and you have to visualize how every minute of class will go, but the actors (students) don't know they are part of a production. The movie must be on time. Each scene has to fit together perfectly with the next.  It seems crazy that the teacher would enter into this lesson without having thought about how secretly recording the kids could alter the class short term and long term. 

 
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The plan clearly went awry. But maybe he just wanted to listen to it. Don't care either way as long he's not too bent about what he hears.
I agree with your take as a parent. As a teacher, no matter how the plan went, he decided to secretly record his class and then play it back to them. That was part of his plan. That's not the way you run a class. 

 
What kind of world do we live in that a 14 year old cannot be trusted alone for 10 minutes?  In two years they drive and two more they can join the military.  Parents need to take a hard look in the mirror if this is true.
The same world where kids bring guns to school and shoot classmates. Even if it isn't one of the kids in the class, what if there was an active shooter situation in the school. Would 14 year olds know to whether to shelter in place or move to a safe location?

I get your point. The kid is left at home at 14. What if someone breaks in to the house during that time. But, schools take on certain liabilities. Good or bad, it how it is. 

 
The same world where kids bring guns to school and shoot classmates. Even if it isn't one of the kids in the class, what if there was an active shooter situation in the school. Would 14 year olds know to whether to shelter in place or move to a safe location?

I get your point. The kid is left at home at 14. What if someone breaks in to the house during that time. But, schools take on certain liabilities. Good or bad, it how it is. 
So by this rationale, a 14-year old should not be left unsupervised anywhere.  What if they were at a movie and someone started shooting in the theater, or at the mall, or a park, etc.  I really hope people do not live in fear of the worst possible scenario.  It that is the case, that is really sad.  

 
So by this rationale, a 14-year old should not be left unsupervised anywhere.  What if they were at a movie and someone started shooting in the theater, or at the mall, or a park, etc.  I really hope people do not live in fear of the worst possible scenario.  It that is the case, that is really sad.  
It's about liability. It's the world we live in.

 
Haven't read the whole thread, but if the teacher was smart he'd delete the file, take his computer home, replace the hard drive, burn the old one and pretend nothing happened.

 
Just picked him up, substitute teacher! I really hope it's coincidence and not that a parent complained/him getting in trouble.
No rumors going around the school of why he wasn't there? Kind of fishy. Hope the good man just decided to combine the day off of school yesterday so he could have a four day weekend! 

 
The same world where kids bring guns to school and shoot classmates. Even if it isn't one of the kids in the class, what if there was an active shooter situation in the school. Would 14 year olds know to whether to shelter in place or move to a safe location?

I get your point. The kid is left at home at 14. What if someone breaks in to the house during that time. But, schools take on certain liabilities. Good or bad, it how it is. 
Worrying about monsters under the bed is pretty pointless.  

 
Worrying about monsters under the bed is pretty pointless.  
I'll say it again. This isn't about fear, it's about liability. As someone post upstream, law suits can drain resources and budgets. Whether you're a school, a theater, or any other business. Why does my daughters diabetic supplies cost so much? Something with as much plastic as a happy meal toy costs hundreds of dollars. It partly because of R&D. But also because of liability. We live in a sue happy world. The risk of being found negligent isn't worth taking chances. 

Also, age is not indication of maturity. These forums are proof of that. A 14 year old kid could probably take care of himself. That's not the point. Why do we carry auto insurance? Or homeowners insurance. It's not because we can't be responsible, it's there for the what ifs. 

 
oh come on.  How about the kids are responsible for their actions?  14 is old enough to start owning your baggage and admitting when you are wrong.  Once again, another example of problems with the world today.  
I highly doubt this is part of what is wrong in the world today. 

The point of the lesson wasn't to make kids own their garbage. This is a classroom trying to teach a lesson on a popular book and the point could of been made effectively without saying he may or may not listen later.

You honestly don't think a parent would question a future grade if the teacher gave them a low score and your son or daughter was in on that name calling?  I'm not saying I'd be that parent but if you ignore the possibility that wouldn't happen is crazy. Parents are looking for any reason to defend their kids today. 

 

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