Hopping on Drew Stanton bandwagon (1 Viewer)

[Airbus79]

With Kitna turning 35 this September and finishing his career as we speak plus Roy and Calvin as the top two WR's, I am intrigued by Drew Stanton's opportunity to become the next Warner/Bulger under Mike Martz's offense. OR am I drinking too much Stanton kool-aid??? Here is a scouting report on Stanton from Scout.com:

Pos: Smart, hard-working passer with an NFL arm. Patient in the pocket, poised under pressure and buys time for receivers. Throws with an over-the-top delivery, accurate and nicely places the pass. Does not force the ball into coverage. Constantly looking downfield for open targets, yet goes to the safe underneath outlet if nothing else is available. Powers the ball into targets, getting the throw through the tight spots. Loses nothing passing on the move.

Neg: Not an elusive passer who can escape the rush. Struggled with injuries late in his senior campaign. Holds the ball too long in the pocket. Gets rattled, lose confidence and the roof will cave in.

College scouting reports never translate accurately into actual performance in NFL. Anyone has seen Stanton play and feel that he has the "it" to be the next great Martz quarterback???

 

[Bri]

what about orlovsky?

 

[LionsFan78]

From what I've seen and read (can't remember/find sources) Martz has taken a good deal of time changing many of Stanton's mechanics. So he's basically a different QB. I'm waiting until he gets some playing time. If they get eliminated from playoff contention early (won't be a shock), then I want to see Stanton in there this year. But if anyone can work with a QB and make him a solid starter, Martz has proven he can.

 

[LionsFan78]

what about orlovsky?

He should've gotten a fair chance to play at the end of last year, and instead saw 0 snaps. All that with a solid training camp. I think his value in Detroit is gone.

 

[bengalboy]

I love the potential here with Stanton and those young talented WRs. I'll be drafting him in the later rounds of my keeper league as I already have Kitna as an 8th round keep (tremendous value).

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Out of curiosity, I checked out a scouting report on him. His negatives were listed as:

Decision-making

Field Vision

Mental Toughness

Probably not something you'd want out of ANY QB much less a Martz QB. Don't know much about him though to make any sort of decision.

 

[skillz]

I have MSU season tickets and have seen Stanton play quite a bit. I am not a fan. He is a great athlete but I concur with his negatives: poor decision making, and he is also injury prone. Plus, the local players that the Lions draft never seem to work out. I was hoping the Lions were going to draft Posluszny but oh well.

 

[Biabreakable]

I know the coaching staff is in love with Kitna.

If Kitna plays well this year I do not see any reason why they would pull him. And he could easily be starting for the Lions at the age of 36 as well.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Martz probably won't be there when Stanton becomes the starter.

 

[ffguru56]

Very interesting topic. I'm glad it was brought up because I was actually thinking about trading up in my draft to nab him. I'm looking for a future QB that could be deadly.

I don't think I like hearing what has been posted thus far though. Anyone have any links to his evaluations of him for the NFL level (pre-draft and post-draft)???

 

[Biabreakable]

There was an article a few weeks ago talking about how coachable Stanton is. Martz really likes how well he listens and does what Martz is telling him to do. He said that Stanton has great charecter and is refreshingly humble compared to most players.

That being said Martz is tearing his mechanics down and retraining him from scratch. But Stanton is taking to it well. I got the idea from what Martz was saying (reading into it) that Stanton will not be ready to play this year. He is not even ready to compete for the backup role but he could in training camp still. That remains to be seen.

I am not sure if people realize how much the Lions like Kitna. They are very happy with him. If Kitna improves upon what he did last year I do not expect that to change and as I allready said Kitna could still be the starter at age 36 if he does well at 35.

So while Stanton is a very nice prospect and a guy I would really like to have I don't think he is a lock to be the Lions starter in the near future at all. Early reports do sound promising but his development curve may take longer than what some people are thinking. Maybe it wont. If Kitna regresses then the Lions will look at other options. But do not underestimate that one of the big things they like about Kitna is his attitude. He has become a leader for a Lions team that the HC is trying to teach to have a winning attitude. He does not like the selfish behavior that many of the Lions players had when he took over. Kitna is one of the players who is helping lead by example the HC philosophy and I see the HC having a lot of loyalty to Kitna.

 

[lions327]

Martz probably won't be there when Stanton becomes the starter.

Maybe not, but I honestly think this year of Martz teaching Stanton and completely breaking down his fundamentals and starting from scratch is more important than the play calling. Martz is a great offensive coordinator, but an even better teacher.

 

[ffguru56]

Martz probably won't be there when Stanton becomes the starter.

Maybe not, but I honestly think this year of Martz teaching Stanton and completely breaking down his fundamentals and starting from scratch is more important than the play calling. Martz is a great offensive coordinator, but an even better teacher.

Sounds all good to me then. I get the impression that this guy is getting molded to be that successful QB instead of those Manning's or Leinarts that jump right into the mix and learn as you go. If I were a QB in their position I would almost rather be in Stanton's shoes. Learn the tricks of the trade and then practice them (becoming the starter).

 

[Bri]

I think you guys are overrating these 2 QBs

Suppose Kitna is done after 07 and 08 becomes the time for the next QB to take over: I'd bet he's not on their roster. Cassell in NE or Fitzpatrick in St. Louis or....someone from another team seems more likely to me than those two, FWIW.

 

[Spartans Rule]

what about orlovsky?

Not sure what anyone ever saw in this guy. He's a fifth-round pick who's never been more than a third-stringer and probably never will be.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

With Kitna turning 35 this September and finishing his career as we speak

So he is 34-35.Next year 35-36.Then 36-37.Followed by 2010.I dont see a reason he has to be put to pasture so quick.QBs can play as long there bodies arent broken down. And Kitna seems to have plenty of zeal.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I liked Stanton at MSU. He's a competitor. It always seemed like the team fell apart around him and he tried too hard to save them, and ended up looking bad.

His decision-making is definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say he isn't mentally tough. Mentally he reminds me of Brett Favre... he wants to win so bad that sometimes he forces things that aren't there.

 

[lions327]

I liked Stanton at MSU. He's a competitor. It always seemed like the team fell apart around him and he tried too hard to save them, and ended up looking bad.His decision-making is definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say he isn't mentally tough. Mentally he reminds me of Brett Favre... he wants to win so bad that sometimes he forces things that aren't there.

When he did force things, his mechanics were not good enough to allow him to make plays. It magnified every problem he had. I also think his bad mechanics caused him to lose confidence at times, and that can have a direct affect on decision making. Some of his decisions looked bad because his bad mechanics caused terrible passes.

 

[Bri]

I liked Stanton at MSU. He's a competitor. It always seemed like the team fell apart around him and he tried too hard to save them, and ended up looking bad.His decision-making is definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say he isn't mentally tough. Mentally he reminds me of Brett Favre... he wants to win so bad that sometimes he forces things that aren't there.

When he did force things, his mechanics were not good enough to allow him to make plays. It magnified every problem he had. I also think his bad mechanics caused him to lose confidence at times, and that can have a direct affect on decision making. Some of his decisions looked bad because his bad mechanics caused terrible passes.

There is a degree of change that you can't do with a QB at the NFL level re-his mechanics. There's alot you can but you can't pretend you'll change some habits they've had for their whole life either. Real fine line there between helping and hurting his performance.Some real good articles about this when Carr was drafted if ya feel like googling.

 

[Bob Magaw]

steve young during espn draft coverage underlined his horrific mechanics, but was under the impression they could be changed (& no doubt would need to be)...

jaws liked him as a prospect, but said that he saw every pass at MSU & there were very few spirals... the biggest issue is his wrist is cocked at a funny angle...

opinion is divided, but many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)... look at it this way... with calvin johnson & roy williams at WR (physically & athletically at least, maybe the most impressive young tandem in NFL history)... HE COULD HIT THE BALL TO THEM WITH A FUNGO BAT & they would probably come down with it...

this advantage may mitigate any accuracy issue he might have to a greater degree than some are accounting for... their effective "window" for a reception is anywhere from 1" off the ground to 13' in the air... johnson is nearly 6'5" and unofficially had a 44" VJ at georgia tech... he would probably hit his head on the rim dunking the ball... roy williams was one of the best long jumpers in the state as a TX prep & i think his best was around 25'... these guys are ELITE athletes & physical specimens... if he goes to just about any other team, the appeal wouldn't be close to what it is in DET...

as to martz moving on, it is certainly possible, but he is far from a lock to get a HC job in '08, so it may be a few years, if ever... he is a respected offensive mind, but had a very imbalanced team, & clashed with the STL front office publicly at the end & was somewhat insubordinate, so that may not endear him to other front offices around the league...

* IF martz sticks around a while, he has worked wonders with far less pedigreed QBs such as warner (UFA), bulger (i think a 6th rounder cut by NO) & trent green... for all his issues, scouts new stanton had flaws but prior to his senior year some some had him as a higher graded prospect than brady quinn...

another important & underrated attribute for a QB in addition to mechanics & accuracy is mental toughness... millen & martz seem completely sold on what he brings to the table there... i follow the rams more closely than any other team, & martz is notorious for his tough love & penchant for riding QBs hard... he also has favored deep-in timing patterns that take time to develope, so the QB has to have the physical courage to hang in the pocket... that may be the biggest thing he has to be broken of... his tendency to bolt as soon as things break down... this is probably an indictment of the MSU OL, but DETs OL doesn't exactly have the best unit in the NFL (OG from BAL & OT from DEN could be upgrades, though)...

if kitna throws for 30+ TDs with fewer INTs in '06, it could change the timetable on his seemingly inevitable insertion by another year... anybody that takes him should have a good plan B & be prepared to be patient... the payoff is having williams & CJ as his WRs at some point...

also, imo, if orlovsky was viewed as the QB of the future within the organization, no way they spend a relatively high second rounder on stanton, with so many other holes on their roster... it doesn't have the look of a luxury pick...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

 

[Bri]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

http://www.google.com

 

[Bob Magaw]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

do national publications count?of the last three i have bought recently, some excerpts...

just got fantasy index (you may have heard of it )... pg 44 of the rookie report... "Stanton probably will start on opening day next year - or sooner."

pro forecast from footballdiehards.com (with former FBG affiliate bob harris, who has also had a column in SI in the past)... pg 17 of rookie review... "... its likely Stanton will be handed the ropes next season."

fanball... doesn't time stamp the prediction, but on pg 26 of impact rookies, QB section, it said this... "Stanton is a local product who was handpicked by Mike Martz to run his offense in the near future."

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there aren't also plenty of people that think stanton is a few years away, or worse (& arguably, there may be many more in this camp... there are many people in india... there are even more in china... its possible to use the same term many to denote two different sets of numbers, one higher & one lower)...

but if you make even a half hearted attempt to look around (i read from many sources, online & print media), i'm confident you will find "many" sources that speculate that if DET is out of the playoffs early, it isn't a huge stretch to think that the lions may want to get their QB of the future game experience as soon as this season, & this isn't really even a hugely controversial position...

 

[Penguin]

I've heard whispers that Marc Bulger would be welcomed with open arms in Detroit if St.Louis doesn't extend his contract.

 

[Donnybrook]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

Bible boy is predicting that Detroit will win 10 games and he will throw 50 TDs. I can't see how they could bench him with that kind of production.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i've heard the same rumblings, IF bulger were to get on the open market...

bulger is maybe a top 5 QB or close to, so probably a few teams would have interest... with martz & bulger's connection from STL, it is logical to speculate about DET being a destination...

some reports suggest though that there is mutual interest from bulger & linehan in getting a new contract done... i'll be surprised if it isn't done before the season starts...

i think maybe their relationship (bulger & martz) was strained... when martz had a serious ailment (heart infection that required intravenous antibiotics) & was eventually fired, i don't recall bulger ever saying anything (sorry he was sick, to see him go, yada yada) & thought that was telling... since last season, when extolling the virtues of linehan's much different scheme, especially in the ability to check out of plays, & greater latitude of QB to make changes pre-snap & at the LOS, & also in linehan's receptiveness to input, the way bulger phrased his comments seemed to be thinly veiled criticism of martz's rigidity...

no specific quotes (i always read sporting news & usa today team reports off, pre & in-season, & follow a homer board year round)... & more of a reading between the lines observation, but maybe one some STL locals (i'm not) can confirm...

 

[IAmTheBruteSquad]

What about the thought that DET might not win those ten games, more like....3 games and end up with a top 3 pick again. Would it be all that surprising if they went after a top QB prospect like B. Brohm or C. Henne? This is Detroit after all...

 

[lions327]

There was a video interview with Martz in early June I believe, posted on a Lansing TV stations website. They took it down the following day because the NFL has some new rules restricting the length of videos that are posted online, or something like that. I'll see if I can find the info about that. Anyways, I saved the video, and if anyone wants to see it, PM me your email and I'll send the attachment to you. I think it is a must see interview.

My take is Stanton will not play this year barring injury. He may or may not compete in 2008, I think it largely depends on his progress combined with Kitna's performance.

I am certainly no expert, but I believe his mechanics can be completely changed in time. Martz does this with every QB he has.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

http://www.google.com

X

 

[BigSteelThrill]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

do national publications count?of the last three i have bought recently, some excerpts...

just got fantasy index (you may have heard of it )... pg 44 of the rookie report... "Stanton probably will start on opening day next year - or sooner."

pro forecast from footballdiehards.com (with former FBG affiliate bob harris, who has also had a column in SI in the past)... pg 17 of rookie review... "... its likely Stanton will be handed the ropes next season."

fanball... doesn't time stamp the prediction, but on pg 26 of impact rookies, QB section, it said this... "Stanton is a local product who was handpicked by Mike Martz to run his offense in the near future."

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there aren't also plenty of people that think stanton is a few years away, or worse (& arguably, there may be many more in this camp... there are many people in india... there are even more in china... its possible to use the same term many to denote two different sets of numbers, one higher & one lower)...

but if you make even a half hearted attempt to look around (i read from many sources, online & print media), i'm confident you will find "many" sources that speculate that if DET is out of the playoffs early, it isn't a huge stretch to think that the lions may want to get their QB of the future game experience as soon as this season, & this isn't really even a hugely controversial position...

I was hoping to see NFL personnel and news media with serious team contact, not FFI and such! lmaoWith you saying it, you can now add FBG to the list of those who have said it.

 

[Bob Henry]

I liked Stanton at MSU. He's a competitor. It always seemed like the team fell apart around him and he tried too hard to save them, and ended up looking bad.His decision-making is definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say he isn't mentally tough. Mentally he reminds me of Brett Favre... he wants to win so bad that sometimes he forces things that aren't there.

I'm with Sparty on this one. I've also watched Stanton play in HS since he first became the QB at Farmington Hills Harrison, winning state titles in each season. IMO, the Spartans team was plain awful around him. Sure, Stanton made some very poor decisions and even cost his team victories with some of them (thinking ND mainly here), but I've also seen him put that offense on his back at times (esp. against Michigan before he got hurt in the "Braylon Edwards OT game").. Stanton is flawed mechanically, but I have a great amount of confidence in the coaching and tutoring that he's getting from Mike Martz. Stanton is also a fierce competitor. John L Smith took a lot of heat when Stanton tore up his knee in his first season at MSU (think he might've been a redshirt, don't recall) covering kicks as a gunner. Good or bad, he's a football player and no prima donna QB. That may get him hurt, but it also shows he has the tenacity and desire to be a great player (especially in the Martz offense).Brett Favre is a common comparison. I liken him more to a young Mark Brunell. Slippery, great ability to escape pressure and turn a broken play into something positive and he's got a decent arm, too. Granted, Brunell had a bit more success at the collegiate level, but physically and via the style of their play, they remind me of each other.FWIW, I think I have Stanton ranked a bit higher than most, if not all, of the others on our rookie rankings panel. Yes, I'm a Lions fan, though I'm not the type to sport rose colored glasses for the sake of homerism. If anything, I'm always a bit more leary with Lions players than if they were on any other team.

 

[redman]

I'm a big Stanton fan, particularly because of his situation with Martz, Williams and Johnson, but I'm not expecting to see any return from drafting him in dynasty for two years.

 

[Traders2001]

Drew Stanton was reportedly unimpressive at pre-training camp workouts.

He's still adjusting to coordinator Mike Martz changing his delivery and grip, but this won't help the former Michigan State star's chances of playing in the second half of the season. Stanton will need a big training camp and preseason to pass Dan Orlovsky to become Jon Kitna's top backup.

He is a very very ordinary Qb no special skills , i think he will stay third on the depth chart , i see Orlovsky doing like Bulger did in St louis . Kitna gets injured Orlovsky comes in a never lkooks back. .

 

[lions327]

Drew Stanton was reportedly unimpressive at pre-training camp workouts.

He's still adjusting to coordinator Mike Martz changing his delivery and grip, but this won't help the former Michigan State star's chances of playing in the second half of the season. Stanton will need a big training camp and preseason to pass Dan Orlovsky to become Jon Kitna's top backup.

He is a very very ordinary Qb no special skills , i think he will stay third on the depth chart , i see Orlovsky doing like Bulger did in St louis . Kitna gets injured Orlovsky comes in a never lkooks back. .

I don't know where you got your information from, but it could not be further from the truth. I have not heard nor seen one single negative thing about his performance in camp. In fact, it has been the exact opposite if anything. I would like to know where you read or heard this. Martz spoke highly of Stanton's progress in mini camp. Nobody here expects Stanton to play this year, but long term, there is no question the Lions are extremely high on Stanton. He was drafted to be the QB of the future. He most likely will be 3rd string this year because the Lions ideally would like him to sit this year. That doesn't mean a thing when it comes to his long term outlook. He is a physically gifted player and has a great attitude and is very tough minded. Once Martz gets his mechanics right, I think the sky is the limit and so do the Lions.

EDITED: I just read something from the Lions beat writer acknowledging what the poster said.

 

[identikit]

Drew Stanton was reportedly unimpressive at pre-training camp workouts.

He's still adjusting to coordinator Mike Martz changing his delivery and grip, but this won't help the former Michigan State star's chances of playing in the second half of the season. Stanton will need a big training camp and preseason to pass Dan Orlovsky to become Jon Kitna's top backup.

He is a very very ordinary Qb no special skills , i think he will stay third on the depth chart , i see Orlovsky doing like Bulger did in St louis . Kitna gets injured Orlovsky comes in a never lkooks back. .

The bolded excerpt is from Rotoworld, FWIWId

 

[lions327]

Drew Stanton was reportedly unimpressive at pre-training camp workouts.

He's still adjusting to coordinator Mike Martz changing his delivery and grip, but this won't help the former Michigan State star's chances of playing in the second half of the season. Stanton will need a big training camp and preseason to pass Dan Orlovsky to become Jon Kitna's top backup.

He is a very very ordinary Qb no special skills , i think he will stay third on the depth chart , i see Orlovsky doing like Bulger did in St louis . Kitna gets injured Orlovsky comes in a never lkooks back. .

The bolded excerpt is from Rotoworld, FWIWId

Here is the last part of Kowalski's report, that was not posted by rotoworld. Martz is still very high on Stanton's future because of his intelligence, maturity, passion, toughness and leadership. It's going to take time for those qualities to emerge because Stanton will be swimming in a quagmire for awhile. Martz said he's willing to be patient and that's nice, but Stanton should know this - that patience will run out by Aug. 9 when the Lions play their first preseason game.

Link to Stanton article

While he may have struggled, I think rotoworld saying he was unimpressive, without the details of what Martz did to his mechanics, is very misleading.

 

[identikit]

Drew Stanton was reportedly unimpressive at pre-training camp workouts.

He's still adjusting to coordinator Mike Martz changing his delivery and grip, but this won't help the former Michigan State star's chances of playing in the second half of the season. Stanton will need a big training camp and preseason to pass Dan Orlovsky to become Jon Kitna's top backup.

He is a very very ordinary Qb no special skills , i think he will stay third on the depth chart , i see Orlovsky doing like Bulger did in St louis . Kitna gets injured Orlovsky comes in a never lkooks back. .

The bolded excerpt is from Rotoworld, FWIWId

Here is the last part of Kowalski's report, that was not posted by rotoworld. Martz is still very high on Stanton's future because of his intelligence, maturity, passion, toughness and leadership. It's going to take time for those qualities to emerge because Stanton will be swimming in a quagmire for awhile. Martz said he's willing to be patient and that's nice, but Stanton should know this - that patience will run out by Aug. 9 when the Lions play their first preseason game.

Link to Stanton article

Thanks for the complete picture...Id

 

[DocGonzo]

I liked Stanton at MSU. He's a competitor. It always seemed like the team fell apart around him and he tried too hard to save them, and ended up looking bad.His decision-making is definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say he isn't mentally tough. Mentally he reminds me of Brett Favre... he wants to win so bad that sometimes he forces things that aren't there.

I'm with Sparty on this one. I've also watched Stanton play in HS since he first became the QB at Farmington Hills Harrison, winning state titles in each season. IMO, the Spartans team was plain awful around him. Sure, Stanton made some very poor decisions and even cost his team victories with some of them (thinking ND mainly here), but I've also seen him put that offense on his back at times (esp. against Michigan before he got hurt in the "Braylon Edwards OT game").. Stanton is flawed mechanically, but I have a great amount of confidence in the coaching and tutoring that he's getting from Mike Martz. Stanton is also a fierce competitor. John L Smith took a lot of heat when Stanton tore up his knee in his first season at MSU (think he might've been a redshirt, don't recall) covering kicks as a gunner. Good or bad, he's a football player and no prima donna QB. That may get him hurt, but it also shows he has the tenacity and desire to be a great player (especially in the Martz offense).Brett Favre is a common comparison. I liken him more to a young Mark Brunell. Slippery, great ability to escape pressure and turn a broken play into something positive and he's got a decent arm, too. Granted, Brunell had a bit more success at the collegiate level, but physically and via the style of their play, they remind me of each other.FWIW, I think I have Stanton ranked a bit higher than most, if not all, of the others on our rookie rankings panel. Yes, I'm a Lions fan, though I'm not the type to sport rose colored glasses for the sake of homerism. If anything, I'm always a bit more leary with Lions players than if they were on any other team.

Or, should I say, good postingS. I agree with both and I especially love the young Brunell comparison. I think Stanton was hurt a little by sub-par talent around him at MSU. I watched plenty of their games, and while I can't speak to mechanics and all of those technical things, I can say that I never got the impression watching him that he wasn't mentally tough. In fact, I always felt the opposite about him. He ALWAYS came out to compete and he played as hard as anyone on the field. Those are the intangibles and the "football" character that Marinelli is looking for with these Lions. Stanton has to continue to progress under Martz, and the Lions need to keep the offensive weapons in place around him, but he very well could end up being a top QB in the next few years. I wouldn't forget, though, the Lovefest the coaching staff has going with Kitna. As long as he produces I'm not sure they'll be in a rush to get Stanton out there.

 

[Bob Magaw]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

do national publications count?of the last three i have bought recently, some excerpts...

just got fantasy index (you may have heard of it )... pg 44 of the rookie report... "Stanton probably will start on opening day next year - or sooner."

pro forecast from footballdiehards.com (with former FBG affiliate bob harris, who has also had a column in SI in the past)... pg 17 of rookie review... "... its likely Stanton will be handed the ropes next season."

fanball... doesn't time stamp the prediction, but on pg 26 of impact rookies, QB section, it said this... "Stanton is a local product who was handpicked by Mike Martz to run his offense in the near future."

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there aren't also plenty of people that think stanton is a few years away, or worse (& arguably, there may be many more in this camp... there are many people in india... there are even more in china... its possible to use the same term many to denote two different sets of numbers, one higher & one lower)...

but if you make even a half hearted attempt to look around (i read from many sources, online & print media), i'm confident you will find "many" sources that speculate that if DET is out of the playoffs early, it isn't a huge stretch to think that the lions may want to get their QB of the future game experience as soon as this season, & this isn't really even a hugely controversial position...

I was hoping to see NFL personnel and news media with serious team contact, not FFI and such! lmaoWith you saying it, you can now add FBG to the list of those who have said it.

you questioned my statement, i backed it up accurately in a way that was consistent with my original statement... i can't be responsible for mistaken inferences about what i said (but sorry if a lack of clarity on my part confused you)... if you refuse to consider anything but "hard" news sources like ted koppel or wolf blitzer conducting "smoking gun" interviews in which millen, marinelli & martz unanimously & unequivocally state that stanton will absolutely be inserted if the lions get off to a terrible start, that is an unrealistic & unreasonable burden of "proof"...

* would such a communication send a positive message to the rest of the team?

 

[Biabreakable]

if kitna throws for 30+ TDs with fewer INTs in '06, it could change the timetable on his seemingly inevitable insertion by another year... anybody that takes him should have a good plan B & be prepared to be patient... the payoff is having williams & CJ as his WRs at some point...

This is what I am thinking also. The Lions allready really like Kitna. If Kitna improves on what he did last year in 07 I don't see that loyalty and enthusiasm going away and would expect them to keep Kitna as the starter until he struggles. Kitna has a pretty long leash allready from last year.

 

[Bob Magaw]

if kitna throws for 30+ TDs with fewer INTs in '06, it could change the timetable on his seemingly inevitable insertion by another year... anybody that takes him should have a good plan B & be prepared to be patient... the payoff is having williams & CJ as his WRs at some point...

This is what I am thinking also. The Lions allready really like Kitna. If Kitna improves on what he did last year in 07 I don't see that loyalty and enthusiasm going away and would expect them to keep Kitna as the starter until he struggles. Kitna has a pretty long leash allready from last year.

in the disputed quote with BST, i was actually referring to what OTHER people have said...it is obviously a contingent assumption... IF the lions bomb, or kitna bombs (or both of course), it would seem to increase the chance stanton gets inserted sooner than later... possibly as soon as '08 or even the end of this season...for those people i cited above to have the expectation that stanton will probably start in '08, i have to think that speaks to their belief that the lions or kitna or both will fare poorly this year...just for the record, i don't expect either in '07... i expect kitna to be good if not spectacular, & if calvin johnson is as special a talent as i think he is, this will help kitna to do even better... the lions lost some close games last season, there is a lot of uncertainty in NFC North after the bears... i don't know if they will flirt with .500 and be in the playoff mix, but i expect them to be better in '07, and that very well could increase the chance kitna returns as the starter in '08... imo they would PREFER to take their time grooming stanton as the eventual starter, as even martz has admitted he is a bit of a project, & needs his mechanics torn down & rebulit from the ground up...but again, we are talking about contingent events... i'm also sure the lions would prefer if kitna & the team looks great this year, but that is sort of out of their control...IF the lions or kitna look bad this season, i don't find it a stretch to think it increases the chance stanton is inserted in '08 or maybe earlier... whether he would be a fantasy stud immediately is a different question...* i took stanton in two of my four dynasty leagues (14 team leagues) in the second round & am very high on his future... i won't be stunned if he is starting by '08, but i'm certainly not counting on it...in a FBG staff league currently underway, i almost took kitna after bulger in the 6th, as the QB6, ahead of mcnabb (after only manning, palmer, brady, brees & bulger, & also ahead of VY & vick)... i got him in the 7th (after mcnabb), as the QB7... i wouldn't have done that unless i thought he was capable of having a very good year... based on some rankings i've seen, i think kitna is underrated (that is in large part a testament to what a massive difference maker i think CJ will prove to be, as well as my expectations for offensive improvement in year two of martz's installation, more than a reflection of belief in kitna's intrinsic talent)...

 

[lions327]

I expect Kitna to play all 16 games unless he gets hurt. Ideally, the Lions want Stanton to sit this year. The Lions love Kitna's leadership abilities and they also feel he is an important part of changing the losing culture that has plagued the Lions for years. Kitna played all 16 games last year, even though the Lions had a number of meaningless games. It would have been easy for Marinelli to play McCown or Orlovsky near the end of the year, but Marinelli wants to play to win every game and did not want to send a different message by benching his starting QB just to give someone else playing time...the same reason Fat Mike didn't play much. He wants everyone to earn their time. Marinelli also is not one to bench a player unless he deserves to be benched. I don't see him changing that this year.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Lions love Kitna's leadership abilities and they also feel he is an important part of changing the losing culture that has plagued the Lions for years.

That is what I have heard the HC say also. And that the Lions are not there yet. There are still personel on the roster that have not bought in to the HC expectations and attitude he wants from all of the players on the team. Kitna is one of his main examples of the kind of attitude he wants the TEAM to have.Kitna is very much a team player. He did not complain when Carson Palmer was given the starting job over him. A lot of people questioned this move at the time because Kitna had played very well the year before. But Kitna was very good about it.Stanton is going to have to really earn it for the coaches to bench Kitna to play him. Training camp will be interesting here. It remians to be seen if Stanton can win the backup job in TC or not. If he does then he will be a lot closer to possibly being the starter in 08 but that is not a lock by any means. If Stanton is the 3rd string QB in 2007 I do not see him challenging Kitna for the starting job in 08 unless Kitna really regresses in 07 from what he did in 06.I expect Kitna to at least maintain what he did in 06 this year. And there is some reason to expect him to improve. If Kitna does improve in 07 I don't see Stanton or anyone challenging him for the starting position in 08. It will be Kitnas job to lose. If Kitna only maintains what he did in 06 this season then there will be some questions about if Stanton could be an upgrade for the Lions or not in 08. That is if Stanton does well enough to win the backup job in 07.I don't see Orlovski having the same chance to challenge Kitna that Stanton does. I think Orlovski is a career backup.I do like Stanton and think he has a lot of potential. I just see him being a ways away to really challenge Kitna for this job. How he fairs in this years TC will be key in how I assess his potential long term and how seeon I see him being able to challenge Kitna for the job.

 

[Penguin]

I expect Kitna to play all 16 games unless he gets hurt. Ideally, the Lions want Stanton to sit this year. The Lions love Kitna's leadership abilities and they also feel he is an important part of changing the losing culture that has plagued the Lions for years. Kitna played all 16 games last year, even though the Lions had a number of meaningless games. It would have been easy for Marinelli to play McCown or Orlovsky near the end of the year, but Marinelli wants to play to win every game and did not want to send a different message by benching his starting QB just to give someone else playing time...the same reason Fat Mike didn't play much. He wants everyone to earn their time. Marinelli also is not one to bench a player unless he deserves to be benched. I don't see him changing that this year.

I expect Kitna to start all 16 as well. I think there's a good chance (>505) that Kitna is the opening day starter in 2008 as well.

 

[Bob Magaw]

recent article on NFL.com... i was reminded that one thing that should help expedite stanton's development... kitna should be an excellent mentor... carson palmer gave him a lot of credit for his development when kitna was in CIN...

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_displ...ument_id=457989

Major Adjustments

QB Drew Stanton has Already Seen Significant Change in his Game Since Entering the NFL

By Chrissie Zavicar

Detroitlions.com

July 9, 2007

ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- For quarterback Drew Stanton, a change in surroundings didn’t impact him quite as much as it impacted the rest of his fellow Lions’ rookies.

Stanton, a four-year starter at Michigan State University, was able to remain in his home state of Michigan when he was drafted by the Detroit Lions. Compare that to other rookies like defensive end Ikaika Alama-Francis who grew up in Hawaii and it’s easy to see that Stanton didn’t have quite as much “shell shock.”

But, while Stanton hasn’t had as much of a change in location and scenery, he has had a great deal of adjustment on the football field.

To start, Stanton has gone from being one of the oldest and most experienced players at Michigan State to joining an NFL roster filled with experienced veterans. That in itself has been a significant adjustment for the 22-year-old rookie.

“It’s a different style of game in the way that you approach it because you’re dealing with people that are in a much larger age group,” said Stanton. “It’s not just people who are within four years of you so it’s one of those things where you come in here and you see people who have established themselves in this league 10, 11, 12 years and it’s kind of remarkable.

“You (try to) learn from them and try and pick up things as to why they have been in the league so long and why they’ve been able to have the success they’ve had.”

In regards to figuring out why a player has been in the league so long, Stanton has a great example in fellow-quarterback Jon Kitna. Kitna, an 11-year veteran, is entering his second season as Detroit’s starting QB.

While he has every intention of keep that starting spot, it hasn’t stopped the high-character veteran from helping Stanton as he becomes acclimated with playing in the NFL and learning Detroit’s intricate offensive system.

“Jon has been really helpful to me,” said Stanton. “There have been days early in the morning we’ve been in here and he’ll come in and watch film with us. He sat here one day and went over a script with us and just called out plays and we had to draw it on the chalkboard.

“He’s been so helpful in that manner but then also just seeing him work and the way he operates; not only on the field but learning how he conducts himself off the football field (because that) is equally important when you play this position.”

Stanton has definitely taken on the role of pupil, and Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz began working with him right out of the gate at the team’s rookie mini-camp following the draft.

The Lions brought Stanton to Detroit because they liked his raw, physical ability, but Martz wanted to perfect his mechanics as soon as he could.

For the rookie quarterback, this began a meticulous and drastic process.

“It is completely, 100-percent different than what I did (starting) with the way I grip the ball to where I hold the ball when I’m dropping back,” said Stanton. “I think the good thing is you can see all the benefits when you start doing things correctly; incorporating all of those things that I didn’t necessarily have before just because I was able to get by with what I was doing.”

While Martz has made drastic changes to Stanton’s game in a short amount of time, the young quarterback is already beginning to see the impact of NFL coaching.

As he consciously made the effort to change his mechanics, he started to see the rewards in the form of – for example – the ball coming off his fingers correctly. Soon, the effort of having to think through mechanical changes began to dwindle and rewards were occurring regularly and naturally.

“It’s eventually one of those things that you do it well in practice and then you continue to do it, so when you get in on 7-on-7 or team drills that you’re just doing it naturally, you’re not thinking about it,” said Stanton. “No quarterback will tell you he’s thinking about his mechanics because, if he is, he’s thinking about the wrong thing and he’s going to be late on his reads and all those things.

“So the ultimate goal is to do it enough so it just becomes second nature, where you’re doing it so much that it’s just muscle-memory and not just in the drills, but you’re doing it when you’re in practice and in the games where (you) ultimately find the benefits of it.”

As Stanton continues his growing process as an NFL quarterback, one thing is for certain: he won’t be getting any special rookie treatment from Martz.

“He expects a lot out of people and I think when he expects that, you have to be that much more alert and expect that out of yourself,” said Stanton. “There’s a certain way that he wants us to play and a style of play. I think that’s why they drafted me because he sees those things in me.

“It’s just a matter of me continuing to bring those out and try to get better, work, continue to stay on it and progress with everything that I’m doing.”

Stanton plans to keep going with that process during the team’s break prior to training camp. While the players and coaches are out of the building, Stanton is looking to take advantage of the ‘quiet time.’

“It’s kind of a chance to step back and slow things down and really work on and focus on the things I think I need to be successful,” he said. “Coming in and watching a bunch of film and really understanding every protection and then taking it a step further and trying to learn the little details of this offense.

“Then hopefully by the time training camp comes around I can hit the ground running.”

 

[sholditch]

many people think stanton will be starting by '08 (if not sooner)...

Links to these people?

do national publications count?of the last three i have bought recently, some excerpts...

just got fantasy index (you may have heard of it )... pg 44 of the rookie report... "Stanton probably will start on opening day next year - or sooner."

pro forecast from footballdiehards.com (with former FBG affiliate bob harris, who has also had a column in SI in the past)... pg 17 of rookie review... "... its likely Stanton will be handed the ropes next season."

fanball... doesn't time stamp the prediction, but on pg 26 of impact rookies, QB section, it said this... "Stanton is a local product who was handpicked by Mike Martz to run his offense in the near future."

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there aren't also plenty of people that think stanton is a few years away, or worse (& arguably, there may be many more in this camp... there are many people in india... there are even more in china... its possible to use the same term many to denote two different sets of numbers, one higher & one lower)...

but if you make even a half hearted attempt to look around (i read from many sources, online & print media), i'm confident you will find "many" sources that speculate that if DET is out of the playoffs early, it isn't a huge stretch to think that the lions may want to get their QB of the future game experience as soon as this season, & this isn't really even a hugely controversial position...

Count me among them. We all get impressed by Kitna because of his yardage and that value play at QB he was last year, but when you are ten years into the league and your number of INTs is more than your TDs, furthermore for your first time in a starting gig in three years, that's not that great of a sign. Kitna has a good arm but has had only two seasons I would consider really good from and NFL perspective, one in 1999 with the Seahawks (3400+, 23-16) and 2003 with the Bengals (3500+, 26-15). Also, his good year in Seattle was followed by an absolute stinker. He has thrown for 20+ ints twice (of ten seasons) and for 15+ another 4 times. Not counting his rookie year, his ints have outnumbered his TDs four times. To me, this says that Kitna is not that great of a QB and a team would be foolish to bank their future on him having back-to-back career years (has never happened) and being the long-term answer at QB.Therefore, I think that if Kitna has a down year (statistically it is at least likely), and the Lions are losing and looking likely to be out of the playoffs by, say, week 9 or 10, I could easily see him being benched for Stanton. Also, let's not forget that Kitna managed to lead the team to only 3 wins last year, and they lost every game where his picks either equaled or exceeded his TDs.

 

[duaneok66]

I really do hate making excuses for people, but cut Kitna some slack . . .

the OL was HORRIBLE and he was playing in a Martz offense with two receivers (and one of those was a DB the year before) . . . despite that , he still put up decent numbers

give him two more weapons (Johnson and McDonald)

and

a halfway decent line

and watch what happens . . .

 

[sholditch]

I really do hate making excuses for people, but cut Kitna some slack . . .the OL was HORRIBLE and he was playing in a Martz offense with two receivers (and one of those was a DB the year before) . . . despite that , he still put up decent numbersgive him two more weapons (Johnson and McDonald) anda halfway decent lineand watch what happens . . .

OK, so that's the excuse for a career completion percentage below sixty (not that others don't have that) and his 2000 season in Seattle? I just think people are a little to quick to look at his fantasy points and say he had a great season. Any season for a QB that has 22 ints and only 3 wins is not a good one.Why is whenever I post something against the conventional wisdom that uses numbers to back up legitimate concerns and questions, the thread dies?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I really do hate making excuses for people, but cut Kitna some slack . . .the OL was HORRIBLE and he was playing in a Martz offense with two receivers (and one of those was a DB the year before) . . . despite that , he still put up decent numbersgive him two more weapons (Johnson and McDonald) anda halfway decent lineand watch what happens . . .

OK, so that's the excuse for a career completion percentage below sixty (not that others don't have that) and his 2000 season in Seattle? I just think people are a little to quick to look at his fantasy points and say he had a great season. Any season for a QB that has 22 ints and only 3 wins is not a good one.Why is whenever I post something against the conventional wisdom that uses numbers to back up legitimate concerns and questions, the thread dies?

Kitna had a very good season and the stats don't do him justice. The Lions had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and Kitna never had time to throw. After KJ got hurt, the running game was a nightmare. They had Roy as the only real threat to take one to the house, and once they started double teaming him, the passing game slowed down a lot. Furrey had a solid season, but he is more suited to be a #3 WR. There is one more major point, and stats will never show it. Kitna is a leader and that can't be ignored on a team like the Lions. Marinelli is trying to change the losing culture here, and Kitna is a big part of that. Stanton will not play unless he gives the Lions the best chance to win. I think Stanton sits all year unless Kitna gets hurt. Blaming the 3-13 season on Kitna is crazy. He played solid enough, but there was very little talent around him, and injuries decimated the offensive line and RBs, as well as several starters on defense. The last few games, the Lions started THREE 3rd string offensive linemen and had no Kevin Jones. Injuries and lack of talent was the reason they lost.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

All in all, I've liked what the Lions have done in the offseason, but I'm not a fan of this draft pick. I don't understand what the Lions are seeing here. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll be looking for a QB two years from now and be in the same boat.