Hot Stove - 2009 Edition (3 Viewers)

[Clifton]

Getting things going a bit early this year.

With the economy in a tailspin and Detroit being in the heart of it I wouldn't be surprised to see them ship Cabrera for a package of prospects. They can't handle their payroll and the rest of that roster is thin. They have no real shot at winning anything if they keep Cabrera. The farm is barren. They have no 4 or 5 star prospects and their biggest chip is Cabrera. If they don't move him they drown. Good chance he ends up in Red Sox.

The alternative would be Morneu or Ramirez. It's unlikely the fish will deal Ramirez and if the Sox can get one more big bat they'll get by using a defensive shortstop.

I've got some other information I'm dying to share but it's going to have to hold off until the end of the season

 

[Eephus]

I've got some other information I'm dying to share but it's going to have to hold off until the end of the season

What about to paid subscribers?

 

[dparker713]

Rumor floating around that the Mets will spend big on a FA, completely ignore depth, and suck next year.

 

[igbomb]

With the economy in a tailspin and Detroit being in the heart of it I wouldn't be surprised to see them ship Cabrera for a package of prospects. They can't handle their payroll and the rest of that roster is thin. They have no real shot at winning anything if they keep Cabrera. The farm is barren. They have no 4 or 5 star prospects and their biggest chip is Cabrera. If they don't move him they drown. Good chance he ends up in Red Sox.

Really? The Detroit area has been reeling for ten years, yet Ilitch has given no indication that he's worried about the roster. I'd be shocked if he dismantled it. I can certainly see them not making any FA moves, but to tear it down would be odd.With Cabrera and Granderson still very young, and young guys like Avila, Ramirez, and Sizemore on the verge of playing significant roles on the team, the offense will be competitive in the division. Couple that with the stud front three in the rotation of Verlander, Jackson and Porcello for years to come and there is no reason to think that they can't run near the front of the Central for the next five years.

 

[David Yudkin]

There been a lot of talk in Boston of Jason Bay leaving for the Yankees in the off season.

 

[Mr. Littlejeans]

Cliff told me about the insider information he has. The only adjective I can think of to describe it is "atomic."

 

[Capella]

Good chance the Rays move Bartlett this off-season and let Brignac take over short. Bartlett will likely never be this good again, heading over 30, and is going to be expensive.

Brigs profiles out to be at least as good defensively, and his stick should play in the bigs. They will be able to get at least a B prospect for Bartlett, if not better.

 

[awesomeness]

Good chance the Rays move Bartlett this off-season and let Brignac take over short. Bartlett will likely never be this good again, heading over 30, and is going to be expensive. Brigs profiles out to be at least as good defensively, and his stick should play in the bigs. They will be able to get at least a B prospect for Bartlett, if not better.

Lets try and keep the talk in this thread about teams that are actually in the playoffs.TIA.

 

[Clifton]

Good chance the Rays move Bartlett this off-season and let Brignac take over short. Bartlett will likely never be this good again, heading over 30, and is going to be expensive. Brigs profiles out to be at least as good defensively, and his stick should play in the bigs. They will be able to get at least a B prospect for Bartlett, if not better.

Lets try and keep the talk in this thread about teams that are actually in the playoffs.TIA.

We don't want any of this kind of #### around here, pal.

 

[dparker713]

There been a lot of talk in Boston of Jason Bay leaving for the Yankees in the off season.

Is this rumor or wishful thinking?

 

[David Yudkin]

There been a lot of talk in Boston of Jason Bay leaving for the Yankees in the off season.

Is this rumor or wishful thinking?

Rumor. As a Sox fan, I wouldn't want that to happen.People have put two and two together to conclude this. IIRC, the Yanks have Matsui and Damon as free agents (both 35 years old and getting $13 million this year) and Bay is the premiere corner OF on the FA market.

 

[Sammy3469]

There been a lot of talk in Boston of Jason Bay leaving for the Yankees in the off season.

Is this rumor or wishful thinking?

Rumor. As a Sox fan, I wouldn't want that to happen.People have put two and two together to conclude this. IIRC, the Yanks have Matsui and Damon as free agents (both 35 years old and getting $13 million this year) and Bay is the premiere corner OF on the FA market.

Holliday is better. FWIW, I've heard speculation that Wilpon was hurt much worse by the Madoff thing than has been let on and that they aren't really in any position to go after FAs.

 

[Comer]

With the economy in a tailspin and Detroit being in the heart of it I wouldn't be surprised to see them ship Cabrera for a package of prospects. They can't handle their payroll and the rest of that roster is thin. They have no real shot at winning anything if they keep Cabrera. The farm is barren. They have no 4 or 5 star prospects and their biggest chip is Cabrera. If they don't move him they drown. Good chance he ends up in Red Sox.

Really? The Detroit area has been reeling for ten years, yet Ilitch has given no indication that he's worried about the roster. I'd be shocked if he dismantled it. I can certainly see them not making any FA moves, but to tear it down would be odd.With Cabrera and Granderson still very young, and young guys like Avila, Ramirez, and Sizemore on the verge of playing significant roles on the team, the offense will be competitive in the division. Couple that with the stud front three in the rotation of Verlander, Jackson and Porcello for years to come and there is no reason to think that they can't run near the front of the Central for the next five years.

Granderson will be 29 at the start of next season I would not call that very young. Avila,Porcello look like a possible studs. I have not heard a ton of good things about Sizemore.

 

[bentley]

The Rangers won't do #### because they can't afford anything.

 

[boubucarow]

The Rangers won't do #### because they can't afford anything.

Cubs will probably give Bradley back for free if the Rangers were interested.

 

[whoknew]

Getting things going a bit early this year.With the economy in a tailspin and Detroit being in the heart of it I wouldn't be surprised to see them ship Cabrera for a package of prospects. They can't handle their payroll and the rest of that roster is thin. They have no real shot at winning anything if they keep Cabrera. The farm is barren. They have no 4 or 5 star prospects and their biggest chip is Cabrera. If they don't move him they drown. Good chance he ends up in Red Sox.

This won't happen. Honestly, this sounds like something Bill Simmons would (or did) say - someone who has no knowledge of the working of the Tigers.

 

[whoknew]

Some GM has to bring in Bobby Valentine - right? I mean, how could you not if you need a manager?

 

[Knightro]

Some GM has to bring in Bobby Valentine - right? I mean, how could you not if you need a manager?

I wish Houston would

 

[Clifton]

Getting things going a bit early this year.With the economy in a tailspin and Detroit being in the heart of it I wouldn't be surprised to see them ship Cabrera for a package of prospects. They can't handle their payroll and the rest of that roster is thin. They have no real shot at winning anything if they keep Cabrera. The farm is barren. They have no 4 or 5 star prospects and their biggest chip is Cabrera. If they don't move him they drown. Good chance he ends up in Red Sox.

This won't happen. Honestly, this sounds like something Bill Simmons would (or did) say - someone who has no knowledge of the working of the Tigers.

No, I said this. I understand the Tigers. Tickets sales will continue to plummet, no farm system. Cabrera is their chip. He'll be traded.

 

[MAC_32]

If money were that big of an issue in Detroit Maggs would have either been cut or benched enough to not hit his contract escalator. I can't fathom the thought that any reasonable baseball person would choose to make a run at a title, pay an old guy who can't play defense or hit for power, and then trade off the future instead of benching/cutting the old guy who can't play defense or hit for power in so doing slightly decreasing our chances at a title to keep the future of the franchise intact.

I'm not going to predict what they do come July 2010, but Miggy will be a Tiger opening day next season.

 

[Clifton]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

 

[David Yudkin]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

If you actually meant Halladay, then it would be trade vs sign. If you meant Holliday, then sign would be correct.

 

[Northern Voice]

Blue Jays have singed SS John MacDonald and SS Alex Gonzalez in the last 24 hours, so Marco Scutaro will likely be a free agent. Scutaro was a bright spot for the Jays last season but he's 34 and the Jays won't be competitive until MLB realigns (if ever) so it makes sense to let him go.

 

[Clifton]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

If you actually meant Halladay, then it would be trade vs sign. If you meant Holliday, then sign would be correct.

Well Mr. Yudkin, the Sox would only trade for Halladay if they agreed on an extension. They're not trading for a one year loaner. I'm well aware he's not a FA. We're hear to discuss moves not semantics.

 

[Michael Brown]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

If you actually meant Halladay, then it would be trade vs sign. If you meant Holliday, then sign would be correct.

Well Mr. Yudkin, the Sox would only trade for Halladay if they agreed on an extension. They're not trading for a one year loaner. I'm well aware he's not a FA. We're hear to discuss moves not semantics.

Well, the tone of this entire post seemed pretty unnecessary. All he was doing was correcting it, if not for you then for others who maybe weren't as aware.

 

[Clifton]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

If you actually meant Halladay, then it would be trade vs sign. If you meant Holliday, then sign would be correct.

Well Mr. Yudkin, the Sox would only trade for Halladay if they agreed on an extension. They're not trading for a one year loaner. I'm well aware he's not a FA. We're hear to discuss moves not semantics.

Well, the tone of this entire post seemed pretty unnecessary. All he was doing was correcting it, if not for you then for others who maybe weren't as aware.

The tone? I wasn't being rude here.

 

[dparker713]

Sox looking to sign Halladay.

If you actually meant Halladay, then it would be trade vs sign. If you meant Holliday, then sign would be correct.

Well Mr. Yudkin, the Sox would only trade for Halladay if they agreed on an extension. They're not trading for a one year loaner. I'm well aware he's not a FA. We're hear to discuss moves not semantics.

Well, the tone of this entire post seemed pretty unnecessary. All he was doing was correcting it, if not for you then for others who maybe weren't as aware.

The tone? I wasn't being rude here.

Defensive at the very least. Especially considering there is a chasm of difference between signing a FA and trading for a player.

 

[David Yudkin]

From what I read today, it sounds like the Sox would rather (consider?) let Bay walk and sign Holliday and Scuturo, as somehow that would get them better draft picks than the ones they have currently . . .

Under baseball's warped draft-pick compensation system, a high-revenue team that exchanges one Type A free agent for another actually nets an extra pick -- a supplemental choice between the first and second rounds.. . . If the Sox lose Bay and sign both Holliday and free-agent shortstop Marco Scutaro, they not only will receive the same number of selections, but also might end up in better draft positions.Signing Holliday would cost the Sox their first-round pick. Signing Scutaro, a lower-ranking free agent, would cost them their second-round selection.But, if the Sox lose Bay after offering him salary arbitration, they will gain two picks -- a likely first-rounder and the sandwich pick.

 

[Billy Bats]

Cliff told me about the insider information he has. The only adjective I can think of to describe it is "atomic."

Does anyone want to reveal the atomic news?

 

[Bobcat10]

Cliff told me about the insider information he has. The only adjective I can think of to describe it is "atomic."

Does anyone want to reveal the atomic news?

 

[Anarchy99]

Billy Wagner apparently to the Braves to be their closer, one year for $7 million with an option year.

 

[the moops]

Billy Wagner apparently to the Braves to be their closer, one year for $7 million with an option year.

And with that, forfeiting their first round pick (#20) to the Red Sox.

 

[shadyridr]

oof

 

[Eephus]

Billy Wagner apparently to the Braves to be their closer, one year for $7 million with an option year.

And with that, forfeiting their first round pick (#20) to the Red Sox.

The Sox exchanged a first rounder and a decent month from Wagner for Chris Carter and cash. The Mets would have probably been better off just paying Wagner for the remainder of 2009.The Braves will get a replacement first rounder if anybody signs Gonzalez or Soriano.

 

[Polecat]

This just in!! The Astros plan on doing nothing to bolster their rotation. I can't wait!!

 

[Kraft...]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

 

[whoknew]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

 

[the moops]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

And most of his value is in his incredible defense at 2B.Will that defense translate over to 3B?

 

[Snotbubbles]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

And most of his value is in his incredible defense at 2B.Will that defense translate over to 3B?

He'll be a great 2 hole hitter for Philly. He rarely strikes out and will be good at moving the runners into scoring position for the big boppers. This will also allow them to slide Victorino or Rollins into the 7 hole and give them speed at the top and bottom of the order. Plus, while he may be on the downside, he may not be as bad (and that was still better then Feliz) at the plate as last year. He'll see a lot more pitches with Utley hitting behind him then Clete Thomas and Magglio Ordonez and he also had a better second half of the season then first half. It was just a down year for the most of the Tigers. I think he can have a bounce back year. It also opens up the possibility of sliding Utley to first in 2012 and moving Polanco to second when Howard eventually goes.

 

[Eephus]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

And most of his value is in his incredible defense at 2B.Will that defense translate over to 3B?

He'll be a great 2 hole hitter for Philly. He rarely strikes out and will be good at moving the runners into scoring position for the big boppers. This will also allow them to slide Victorino or Rollins into the 7 hole and give them speed at the top and bottom of the order. Plus, while he may be on the downside, he may not be as bad (and that was still better then Feliz) at the plate as last year. He'll see a lot more pitches with Utley hitting behind him then Clete Thomas and Magglio Ordonez and he also had a better second half of the season then first half. It was just a down year for the most of the Tigers. I think he can have a bounce back year. It also opens up the possibility of sliding Utley to first in 2012 and moving Polanco to second when Howard eventually goes.

I don't know why you'd adjust your batting order give Polanco more ABs than Rollins or Victorino. Polanco is a good contact hitter but his offensive value is almost entirely tied to his AVG. He doesn't walk or hit for power. Whatever gain you'd see from situational ABs would be offset by the lower gross production of Polanco's ABs relative to Rollins or Victorino. I also have my doubts about how much his skillset will be affected by age. I don't have any supporting data but would guess that contact hitting tends to go away quicker than power or pitch selectivity.I really don't like this signing if the Phillies are serious about moving him to 3B. Polanco loses much of his *AR value if he's playing at third. He's an upgrade over Feliz but who isn't?

 

[Snotbubbles]

Lot of Polanco news swirling. Looking like the Phils are hot on his trail to play 3B. I would love to see the sox grab him to play 2B if the potential Pedroia move to SS is in fact real.

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

And most of his value is in his incredible defense at 2B.Will that defense translate over to 3B?

He'll be a great 2 hole hitter for Philly. He rarely strikes out and will be good at moving the runners into scoring position for the big boppers. This will also allow them to slide Victorino or Rollins into the 7 hole and give them speed at the top and bottom of the order. Plus, while he may be on the downside, he may not be as bad (and that was still better then Feliz) at the plate as last year. He'll see a lot more pitches with Utley hitting behind him then Clete Thomas and Magglio Ordonez and he also had a better second half of the season then first half. It was just a down year for the most of the Tigers. I think he can have a bounce back year. It also opens up the possibility of sliding Utley to first in 2012 and moving Polanco to second when Howard eventually goes.

I don't know why you'd adjust your batting order give Polanco more ABs than Rollins or Victorino. Polanco is a good contact hitter but his offensive value is almost entirely tied to his AVG. He doesn't walk or hit for power. Whatever gain you'd see from situational ABs would be offset by the lower gross production of Polanco's ABs relative to Rollins or Victorino. I also have my doubts about how much his skillset will be affected by age. I don't have any supporting data but would guess that contact hitting tends to go away quicker than power or pitch selectivity.I really don't like this signing if the Phillies are serious about moving him to 3B. Polanco loses much of his *AR value if he's playing at third. He's an upgrade over Feliz but who isn't?

Because Victorino makes a better leadoff hitter then JRoll, Polanco makes a better 2 hole hitter then Victorino and JRoll make a better 7 hole hitter then both Polanco and Victorino. That's why you move it around. JRoll is a guy that needs to be moved down in the order.

 

[Kraft...]

I see Polanco as more of a bottom of the order guy now. That obviously makes more sense on an Al team though.

 

[Eephus]

I can't see how a 3 yr/$18mm deal is alll that great for PHI. It won't crush them, but Polanco is pretty clearly on the downside of the mountain.

And most of his value is in his incredible defense at 2B.Will that defense translate over to 3B?

He'll be a great 2 hole hitter for Philly. He rarely strikes out and will be good at moving the runners into scoring position for the big boppers. This will also allow them to slide Victorino or Rollins into the 7 hole and give them speed at the top and bottom of the order. Plus, while he may be on the downside, he may not be as bad (and that was still better then Feliz) at the plate as last year. He'll see a lot more pitches with Utley hitting behind him then Clete Thomas and Magglio Ordonez and he also had a better second half of the season then first half. It was just a down year for the most of the Tigers. I think he can have a bounce back year. It also opens up the possibility of sliding Utley to first in 2012 and moving Polanco to second when Howard eventually goes.

I don't know why you'd adjust your batting order give Polanco more ABs than Rollins or Victorino. Polanco is a good contact hitter but his offensive value is almost entirely tied to his AVG. He doesn't walk or hit for power. Whatever gain you'd see from situational ABs would be offset by the lower gross production of Polanco's ABs relative to Rollins or Victorino. I also have my doubts about how much his skillset will be affected by age. I don't have any supporting data but would guess that contact hitting tends to go away quicker than power or pitch selectivity.I really don't like this signing if the Phillies are serious about moving him to 3B. Polanco loses much of his *AR value if he's playing at third. He's an upgrade over Feliz but who isn't?

Because Victorino makes a better leadoff hitter then JRoll, Polanco makes a better 2 hole hitter then Victorino and JRoll make a better 7 hole hitter then both Polanco and Victorino. That's why you move it around. JRoll is a guy that needs to be moved down in the order.

Well, the 2009 Rollins wasn't a top of the lineup guy, but his AVG was really hurt by an abnomallly low BABIP. He's a good rebound candidate for 2010 although at 31 he'll probably never get back to his 2007 MVPeak.Neither Rollins or Polanco walks much so their offensive value is heavily tied to AVG. Rollins brings more XBHs and better speed on the basepaths. As for helping Victorino on the basepaths, Rollins actually sees more pitches per AB than Polanco. His GIDP rate is also significantly lower. But Polanco looks like a number two hitter so I guess that matters for something.

 

[Lehigh98]

Looks like its a done deal...

Phillies get new third baseman

Phillies get new third baseman

By Jayson Stark

Placido Polanco is returning to the Philadelphia Phillies, signing a three-year, $18 million deal, with a mutual option for a fourth year.

The contract includes a $5.5 million mutual option for 2013, according to a baseball source familiar with the terms. Polanco has 10 days after the 2012 World Series to decide whether he wants to exercise his option. If he does, the team either has to pick up the option or pay him a $1 million buyout. If he declines, he becomes a free agent with no buyout.

There are also $450,000 in potential annual award bonuses -- $100,000 for MVP ($75,000 if he finishes second, $50,000 if he finishes third); $50,000 each if he wins a Silver Slugger or Gold Glove; $50,000 if he makes the All-Star team; $50,000 if he's named to the AP, Sporting News or Baseball America all-star teams; $100,000 if he's World Series MVP; and $50,000 if he's the LCS MVP.

The 34-year-old infielder arrived in Philadelphia on Thursday morning to take a physical, and told NBC-10 TV's John Clark that he's "excited to join a championship team."

Before Wednesday, the Phillies appeared to be locked in on three potential free-agent third basemen -- Polanco, Adrian Beltre and Mark DeRosa. But talks intensified with Polanco's agents Wednesday, a day after his old team, the Tigers, declined to offer him arbitration.

Polanco is a Type A free agent, so the decision not to offer him arbitration means the Phillies signed him without losing their first-round draft pick.

Polanco played for the Phillies from 2002 to 2005. And their mutual familiarity appeared to be a major force driving their pursuit.

Although Polanco has won two Gold Gloves at second base since the Phillies traded him to Detroit, he played 95 games at third in Philadelphia. So the club seems to have no reservations about moving him back to third. And Polanco told NBC-10, "I feel very comfortable playing third base."

The Phillies declined the option on third baseman Pedro Feliz last month to see if they could find a right-handed-hitting offensive upgrade who could help balance their left-leaning lineup. They envision Polanco hitting second behind Jimmy Rollins, a move that would drop Shane Victorino lower in the order.

Polanco batted .337 at Citizens Bank Park while with the Phillies, with more walks (23) than strikeouts (20). And it's his plate discipline that appeals most to the defending NL champs. Polanco has never struck out 50 times in any season in his career. Feliz, on the other hand, had a 618-217 career strikeout-walk ratio, and the Phillies were looking to add more contact to a strikeout-prone lineup.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Well, the 2009 Rollins wasn't a top of the lineup guy, but his AVG was really hurt by an abnomallly low BABIP. He's a good rebound candidate for 2010 although at 31 he'll probably never get back to his 2007 MVPeak.Neither Rollins or Polanco walks much so their offensive value is heavily tied to AVG. Rollins brings more XBHs and better speed on the basepaths. As for helping Victorino on the basepaths, Rollins actually sees more pitches per AB than Polanco. His GIDP rate is also significantly lower. But Polanco looks like a number two hitter so I guess that matters for something.

I would expect Rollins to GIDP less, he's faster then Polanco. But he also has more power too which makes it ideal for him to hit 7th so he can drive in more runs. Plus, he will be able to use his speed more at the bottom of the lineup where he will be more apt to steal.

 

[Clifton]

Braves just signed Saito after already signing Wagner.

 

[Northern Voice]

If Halladay become a Yankee, I will probably quit following this league until there's some sort of salary cap/realignment

 

[Clifton]

If Halladay become a Yankee, I will probably quit following this league until there's some sort of salary cap/realignment :(

 

[Kenneth Cosgrove]

A's add Jake Fox for prospects.

 

[boubucarow]

A's add Jake Fox for prospects.

Wonderful move by Hendry to make up for one of his big mistakes last year. This move was obviously more about getting rid of Miles than anything else. Fox will probably make a good part time DH but don't expect him to play in the field much or to hit well enough to be a legit upper division DH. They didn't get much back as would be expected. Jeff Gray is probably a bullpen call up in case of injury type guy. Ronny Morla had impressive K/BB/HR numbers at 21 in SS ball but he seems a longshot at best to make the majors.