How different (better?) will Houston's O-line be? (1 Viewer)

[Hear-the-Footsteps]

Based on everything and anything - from free agent signings to draft picks, from coaching changes (Kubiak) to implementing new schemes - how much better (or worse if that is possible) will Houston's O-line be this season?

Will the rookie offensive linemen just drafted be able to make an immediate impact?

I am just trying to figure out Carr's value for the upcoming year and since he ended up on his back so many times last year - it is quite difficult to know how he would have done had he had protection.

So, will the protection be that much better?

 

[GregR_2]

Based on everything and anything - from free agent signings to draft picks, from coaching changes (Kubiak) to implementing new schemes - how much better (or worse if that is possible) will Houston's O-line be this season?

Will the rookie offensive linemen just drafted be able to make an immediate impact?

I am just trying to figure out Carr's value for the upcoming year and since he ended up on his back so many times last year - it is quite difficult to know how he would have done had he had protection.

So, will the protection be that much better?

I can't speak in any specifics about things that the previous coaching staff was doing right or wrong in regards to the O-line. But as an example of just how bad the offensive coaching staff seemed to be... David Carr spent 3 years running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage instead of just tossing the ball out of bounds. The coaches didn't get him to throw it away until they fired Palmer and Pendry took over.I don't know how much more basic of coaching you can get than to be smart enough to tell your QB "Don't step out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage." So personally, I tend to think the coaching can make a significant difference.

My personal belief about about the Texans woes last year is that a fair share of it was lack of talent, especially on defense, and also on the O-line when combined with injuries there. But I think the larger contributing factor is that the coaching staff lost the team and never got them back. The last game of 2004 against the Browns was just atrocious... they couldn't have beat a college team with the lack of intensity or effort they showed.

They came back out in 2005 and I don't think much changed. They cut probably 3 of their veteran leaders in Sharper, Foreman and Glenn, leaving a vacuum there. Capers made it clear he either didn't have faith in the team, or was just playing to not lose by a lot as early as the first game of 2005, when he punts on 4th and short while down 2 scores with 5 minutes left.

The interviews with quite a few players I saw last year were fatalistic in tone. I recall guys like DD being asked about the play calling and shrugging and saying, "All we can do is run the plays they called". His words and tone both suggested to me the players just weren't with the coaches.

So all that said, it's still a big guess how much they improve. But as for the coaching staff part of it, I do think they can probably pull another 3 wins out of the hat just by better coaching and turning around the teams attitude.

One other note on the O-line, last I heard the coaching staff was taking a liking to Seth Wand at tackle.

 

[coolnerd]

Kubiak/Sherman have taken the immediate tact that the previous coaching staff had no idea of how to coach the OL. As of this moment (remember May, not August or September), they taking primarily the same cast of characters and attempting to "coach them up"

The staff apparently likes the physical talent of Seth Wand, but his confidence and mental approach were destroyed by that same staff. That said, they are looking at both Spencer and Winston as tackles first as well converting a TE to tackle.

In OTA's the OL from left to right Wand/Pitts/Flannagan/McKinney/Weigert

Basically, the OL will be wait and see, which of course does not help anyone trying to make decisions in May.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

A healthy Flanagan at center would be big for them. The problem is, how healthy is he? Having a guy like that anchoring the line and calling protections would go a long, long way to solidifying the group.

 

[VICK-tory]

They can't get any worse. Their new left tackle is Seth Wand as converted d-liner. I met him in Houston last week at a rest. he's a mammoth boy.

 

[SSOG]

Full disclosure: I know pretty much nothing about Houston. I'm not a fan of the team, and I couldn't name a single one of their linemen without looking. I have no idea what changes there have been along the line, or anything. I *do*, however, know a whole lot about Denver and the system that they run, which is also the system that Kubiak says he wants to emulate in Houston.

If Kubiak is switching to a zone blocking scheme (I'm not sure whether he is or not, actually), then temper all expectations for rookie lineman. No offensive lineman has EVER started for Denver as a rookie. Not even George Foster, who was a first round selection (actually, I think he got one start against Green Bay in a game where Denver rested pretty much their entire first string for the playoffs). Anyway, rookies do not start in the zone blocking scheme. George Foster and Nalen both got a single start as a rookie, and then became full-time starters in their second season. Lepsis became a starter in his 3rd season, Hamilton in his second season, and Cooper Carlisle didn't become a starter until his 6th season. And remember- George Foster was selected in the first round, the highest any offensive lineman has been drafted in Shanahan's tenure. And it's not like there was a quality tackle keeping him on the bench, either- he was behind Ebenezer Ekuban on the depth chart. Ekuban is currently OoF- out of football.

One of my big worries coming into this offseason was that Denver didn't have any good young OLs to begin grooming for the eventual departure of Lepsis and Nalen (a concern they thankfully addressed in the draft).

Remember, too, that Alex Gibbs and Rick Dennison are considered the GURUS of teaching this zone blocking scheme... and Kubiak has neither of them (although he wanted Dennison for his Offensive Coordinator). As a result, it's easy to speculate that the learning curve will be even steeper for new OLs in that system.

Basically, what I'm getting at is, if I were a Houston fan, I wouldn't expect too much out of Charles Spencer or Eric Winston this season. They might start, simply because there's no one better to keep them on the bench, but historically, rookies have trouble picking up on the zone blocking scheme. I don't really know how incoming veterans tend to do with picking up the system, because there really haven't been a lot of incoming veteran OLs in Denver's history- its line is historically homegrown.

With that said, I think Kubiak is a brilliant offensive mind, and I'd be very excited about the prospects for 2007. And if anyone is capable of putting together a surprising rookie campaign, my money's on Kubiak, who has spent the last 20 years being educated and maturing in one of the best systems in the entire NFL. He knows what a successful franchise looks like, and I expect him to put together one of his own very soon.

 

[jaemcy3]

I think we will see a significant improvement in the Houston line by the middle of the season.

Wand LT- has the physical skills and Kub/Sherman like what they see in him. I think he must have #### the bed while sleeping with the coach's wife last year to be demoted for the guys he was sat down for.

Pitts LG- relatively solid last year playing on his own, should be a bit better playing on a team.

Flanagan C- If he stays healthy he could be a great add for this team. Veteran leadership at C is crucial for a zone blocking scheme and he and Sherman have a history that should help.

MaKinney/Spencer- RG crap shot who knows, but better coaching should lead to at least some improvement.

Weigert RT- expect some improvement

Depth- much improved. Added Flanagan, Spencer and Winston. Granted the rookies need time to develop but the talent level is definately a step up from what they had.

Coaching- this is key. Any consistent approach will be better than the "lets draw names out of a hat to see who starts where this week" approach they had last year. Add to that that they're installing one of the most successful blocking schemes in the NFL and I see improvement. They used a zone blocking scheme last year (sort of) but the coaches didn't know how to teach it. this system takes time and is dependant on the line having a team ethic and playing off of the same page, so I think it will take time to gel, but look for improvement by mid season.

I've had an opportunity to speak with Weigert and Pitts recently.

I asked Weigert "How do you like playing for Sherman?" His eyes lit up, he got a big smile and said,"I love it! That man really knows what he's doing". I said "Quite a change huh?" He replied, "Like night and day".

I asked Pitts, "Are there any major changes in your schemes or are you taking the same approach?". He said, "No major changes, it's just that these guys know how to teach us to execute it". "How do you like playing for Sherman?" He replied, "It's fantanstic".

This line will be better, not great but better. Besides, it's a moot question, they can't get worse.