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How is that SEA #1 pick looking now? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bossman
- Start date
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Would they get a better player @ 18 than Deion Branch. One that could put them over the top of SB champs?
I doubt it.
djcolts
Footballguy
But, the #18 pick would cost a lot less to the cap than paying Branch would have.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I wouldn't think you'd care about that when you're a Super Bowl contender.But, the #18 pick would cost a lot less to the cap than paying Branch would have.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
The Seattle cap is well managed, they aren't in need of cap sapce, especially with the big bump in the cap which will happen next year.But, the #18 pick would cost a lot less to the cap than paying Branch would have.
I'd say the verdict is out on it. Was Branch worth a #1? I wouldn't have traded a #1 for him, nor do I think he was the guy that was going to put Seattle over the top. Whether the pick is 16 or 28, I think the Pats got the better value. I don't think Branch is a bad player by any means, just not that high of a talent. They got max value for him. Can you get that type of talent at 16 to 28? Yes, but you're taking a risk. I don't think it was a bad trade for Seattle by any means. It's a perfect trade. Both teams get what they want. Branch has has no more impace in Seattle than Gabriel has in NE, but Gabriel came at a much cheaper price, and I think Gabriels upside is much higher.
G R Y TD 20+
Gabriel 5 15 261 3 2
Branch 4 15 216 2 2
Both are in new systems, and will improve, but given the situation, I'd have to say I'm happier as a Pats fan with the Gabriel acqisition that Seattle fans are with the Branch acquisition thus far.
Donte Stallworth was also available. I don't think Branch was the best available at the time. They reached. We'll see how it plays out, because Branch's career is far from over, as is this season. But, I felt the Pats offer was too high when they offered it. So, obviously I thought the Seattle offer was too high. I wish him luck, because he's a good player. I just didn't like the way he played the situation out. I said it when the deal went down. I believe the Pats, by the end of the season, will be better at WR with Jackson, Gabriel and Brown than they were with Branch, Givens and Brown. It will hurt early, and take time to gel. But, they also picked up another #1 pick along the way, and saved a lot of cap space.
G R Y TD 20+
Gabriel 5 15 261 3 2
Branch 4 15 216 2 2
Both are in new systems, and will improve, but given the situation, I'd have to say I'm happier as a Pats fan with the Gabriel acqisition that Seattle fans are with the Branch acquisition thus far.
Donte Stallworth was also available. I don't think Branch was the best available at the time. They reached. We'll see how it plays out, because Branch's career is far from over, as is this season. But, I felt the Pats offer was too high when they offered it. So, obviously I thought the Seattle offer was too high. I wish him luck, because he's a good player. I just didn't like the way he played the situation out. I said it when the deal went down. I believe the Pats, by the end of the season, will be better at WR with Jackson, Gabriel and Brown than they were with Branch, Givens and Brown. It will hurt early, and take time to gel. But, they also picked up another #1 pick along the way, and saved a lot of cap space.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
While I do agree with you somewhat, Branch has played in one less game (sat out two and had a bye)...I think it is too early to compare him to what the Pats got back in Gabriel.
Canowupass
Footballguy
If you want to rip the Seahawks, you're talking about the wrong receiver.
Kleck
Footballguy
I'm a Seattle homer. Very happy with the trade regardless of where they draft next year. When the trade happened they realistically envisioned themselves as a playoff team in the worst scenarios. The hindsight with the Hasselbeck injury doesn't apply. No one saw that coming. I still think they're a playoff team in the worst scenarios. Schedule is just too weak.
All this said, we can't really fully evaluate any trade until years have passed. Time will tell.
All this said, we can't really fully evaluate any trade until years have passed. Time will tell.
I agree it's a small sample. Gabriel sat out the first half of the Broncos game also, and has had his bye too. But, stats are the only thing to compare the two. It's not a hard comparison by any stretch, just that Gabriel was the guy brought in to replace Branch, and they're performing at about the same level. That's all I was trying to show.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That emotional decision to get Burleson at all costs just to get back at the Vikings didn't really pan out, did it?
Kleck
Footballguy
Anyone willing to put some money down that Hackett won't outperform Burleson this season? I can't believe I took so much crap for this during the preseason.
mozzy84
Footballguy
yea thats exactly what they did with burleson and look how thats going.
NoFBinLA
Moderator
Burleson down?
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
hah! so true.but, I wouldn't discount New England's ability to make some sweet use of a high draft pick.
Please See Mine
Footballguy
The Seattle cap is well managed, they aren't in need of cap sapce.But, the #18 pick would cost a lot less to the cap than paying Branch would have.
Why did they let Hutchison walk then?
Kleck
Footballguy
Is this a serious question? They didn't let him walk. He choose to sign a contract that couldn't be matched because of the poison pill Minnesota added. They transition tagged him. It was a mistake. If they could go back and do it again I'm 100% confident they would have franchise tagged him.
Canowupass
Footballguy
Instead they did the Vikings a huge favor, because the purple would've overpaid for Burleson as well.
Whizzinator
Footballguy
But when you evaluate a deal like the Branch deal, you have to figure in that giving guys like him big money will eventually prevent you from franchising someone like Hutch.
I'd rather have the 20-something pick and $4.5 mil or so in cap room per year than Branch, basically. I'd rather have Branch than the 20-something pick. But the first is the actual swap, not the second.
I'd rather have the 20-something pick and $4.5 mil or so in cap room per year than Branch, basically. I'd rather have Branch than the 20-something pick. But the first is the actual swap, not the second.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
As a Patriots fan, I'm loving this deal as the season goes on. The WR's we have now are finally starting to gel, and, quite frankly, with the ease of the Patriot schedule up to this point, they had plenty of time to do so without seriously damaging the team's chances of winning.
Whenever you lose a player like Branch, there's a drop-off, but I honestly think he is overpaid in Seattle and I'm glad the Patriots did not break the bank for him.
The recent track record of the New England draft picks is excellent. Wilfork, Warren, and Seymour are a top tier defensive line unit, Logan Mankins started immediately his rookie year and is a solid guard, Graham is crucial contributor to blocking and is good for the occassional big screen, and Watson is a solid blocker as well as a potent offensive weapon. And obviously everyone here is thrilled with Maroney so far, and he looks like he'll be a top RB for many years to come.
So, I'm excited to see what the Patriots can do with this pick, even if it's no higher than 20th or so. Losing Branch is a loss, but it's becoming less and less of a loss with each passing week.
Whenever you lose a player like Branch, there's a drop-off, but I honestly think he is overpaid in Seattle and I'm glad the Patriots did not break the bank for him.
The recent track record of the New England draft picks is excellent. Wilfork, Warren, and Seymour are a top tier defensive line unit, Logan Mankins started immediately his rookie year and is a solid guard, Graham is crucial contributor to blocking and is good for the occassional big screen, and Watson is a solid blocker as well as a potent offensive weapon. And obviously everyone here is thrilled with Maroney so far, and he looks like he'll be a top RB for many years to come.
So, I'm excited to see what the Patriots can do with this pick, even if it's no higher than 20th or so. Losing Branch is a loss, but it's becoming less and less of a loss with each passing week.
Seatle is 4-2. They get Alexander back in 2 weeks. Hasselback in 3-4 weeks.If they go 1-2 over the next 3 games, they are still in fine playoff shape. They could easily win their division.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I'll bump this thread then. 
Hass and Alexander aren't dead. Don't forget about Engram or Stevens either. If Wallace can keep the team afloat and Bouleware doesn't keep playing like he's got the other uniform on, they're still in good position to make the playoffs - perhaps not as a top seed, but with time to jell after they're all back, the team could be scary.
I'm not giving up hope, I still like the Branch trade, and I still hope Burleson wakes up one day, but I doubt it.
I'm not giving up hope, I still like the Branch trade, and I still hope Burleson wakes up one day, but I doubt it.
The Ref
Footballguy
I would rather ask Scott Pioli.I will now list all the players the Patriots brass have been wrong on since the start of the BB era.Thanks for reading.
blenderfrog
All your base are belong to us
Bethyl Johnson down?The Ref said:
cstu
Footballguy
Little chance the Seahawks are going to go 4-6 the rest of the way. They have the division record edge on the Rams and if they can beat the Rams in Seattle week 10 they have a very good chance of winning the division.Anyway, a proven WR is better than a rookie who is going to take years to develop, if at all.**PS** If you want to be taken seriously, try spelling the names right so people think you know what you are talking about.
Last edited by a moderator:
M
MLBrandow
Guest
St. Louis
cstu
Footballguy
Week 10 is the key game and SA and Hass may both be back.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Saint Louis.
Phlash
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
I thought they could match it if they restructured Jones' contract?
Kleck
Footballguy
Teams aren't allowed to rework a deal twice a year. They were completely handcuffed by the poison pill. Please see the bolded comment above.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
The salary issues were as of the date the contract was signed by MN and Hutch. So even had they re-worked Jones' contract it was too late.And yes, they have as much admitted it was a mistake, in part due to allowing Hutch to see where his actual value was. If they had franchised him he couldn't negotiate with other teams thus prtracting contract talks with Seattle. Holmgrren went on vacation under the assumption that they were using the franchise tag.
I still feel Branch will be a very strong contributer. It remains to be seen if he will hurt the Hawks as much as Jackson does even after a great statistical game (dropped TD, boinked pass for INT, running backwards for a non-first down just in the last game, don't get me started on the SB lollygagging).
When Wallace went in, Holmie was absolutely not afraid to throw the ball. Granted they were playing behind, but it showed confidence. Despite 3 drops (1 for the INT) he still topped 60% completion rate while playing a team geared for pass D at the time. He can escape pressure very well and has a good arm. The WRs can expect a drop, but not enough IMO to downgrade them much at all. And that includes Branch who should remain the 1b and well worth a 1st round pick. I would say at this time he looks to contribute more then the Hawks last 3 1st rounders: Tubbs, Spencer and Jennings.
As for Wallace and the WRs, the player I exect to be upgraded is DJ Hackett who has spent more practice time with Wallace than anyone.
Boston
Footballguy
Pats:
Negative-Short term pain losing Branch. No doubt that they would be far better off in 2006 having Branch on the field. He was easily their best WR and showed up large on the big stage. Right now their WR corps is still iffy and it remains to be seen if they can handle the load against a topnotch unit like Denver in a big playoff contest. Also, until they prove they can really get it done they will allow defenses to cheat against their running attack.
Positive-Got far more for Branch than many expected. In the NFL first round draft picks are gold. They got the same return on a smallish WR with an injury history who has never had more than 1,000 yards as the Jets did for John Abraham. With the way the Pats have been drafting in the first round under BB/Pioli (Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork, Watson, Mankins, Maroney) adding two first rounders next year bodes very well for the future. Also, the Pats now have money slotted for Branch to spend elsewhere. Koppen's deal was the first domino there. Hopefully Asante Samuel is next. The other piece is they stuck by their philosophy of not overpaying and have kept their salary structure intact. If they had gone away from that big trouble would have been looming when dealing with foundation players like Warren and Wilfork.
Seattle:
Negative-It's never good not having a first round pick. Young talent that doesn't make huge money is the oil that keeps the franchise engine running. If Seattle doesn't win the NFC this year there will be questions whether the deal was worth it. Remember, they didn't just give up a first rounder, they also gave up a big contract to a position they already had solid money allotted to.
Positive-The Hawks are making a run for it this year. Sometimes your window of opportunity is only open so long and they felt like an accomplished veteran wideout with big game experience was worth more than a #1 that may or may not pan out. One player probably won't make or break you but if Branch contributes heavily to a division title and playoff run than he will be worth the gamble of a big contract and a first round pick. The future is now in Seattle.
Negative-Short term pain losing Branch. No doubt that they would be far better off in 2006 having Branch on the field. He was easily their best WR and showed up large on the big stage. Right now their WR corps is still iffy and it remains to be seen if they can handle the load against a topnotch unit like Denver in a big playoff contest. Also, until they prove they can really get it done they will allow defenses to cheat against their running attack.
Positive-Got far more for Branch than many expected. In the NFL first round draft picks are gold. They got the same return on a smallish WR with an injury history who has never had more than 1,000 yards as the Jets did for John Abraham. With the way the Pats have been drafting in the first round under BB/Pioli (Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork, Watson, Mankins, Maroney) adding two first rounders next year bodes very well for the future. Also, the Pats now have money slotted for Branch to spend elsewhere. Koppen's deal was the first domino there. Hopefully Asante Samuel is next. The other piece is they stuck by their philosophy of not overpaying and have kept their salary structure intact. If they had gone away from that big trouble would have been looming when dealing with foundation players like Warren and Wilfork.
Seattle:
Negative-It's never good not having a first round pick. Young talent that doesn't make huge money is the oil that keeps the franchise engine running. If Seattle doesn't win the NFC this year there will be questions whether the deal was worth it. Remember, they didn't just give up a first rounder, they also gave up a big contract to a position they already had solid money allotted to.
Positive-The Hawks are making a run for it this year. Sometimes your window of opportunity is only open so long and they felt like an accomplished veteran wideout with big game experience was worth more than a #1 that may or may not pan out. One player probably won't make or break you but if Branch contributes heavily to a division title and playoff run than he will be worth the gamble of a big contract and a first round pick. The future is now in Seattle.
