How much is your team charging for PSL's (1 Viewer)

[KellysHeroes]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Once it was known that they were building a new stadium I was expecting this to happen. Poor biilionaires need the $ to finance their new stadium which is going to make them a boatlad of money anyway.

I'm a Jets season ticket holder and they haven't announced anything yet but the Giants have said the price will be at least $1,500 for most seats and up to $20,000 for some. I'm expecting the Jets to make a similiar announcement soon.

 

[Phurfur]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

This is pretty common practice for teams that open new stadiums, GB started PSL after their renovation. I don't know if all teams are like this but in GB if you give up your tickets and someone else picks them up your PSL fee is returned to you.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Once it was known that they were building a new stadium I was expecting this to happen. Poor biilionaires need the $ to finance their new stadium which is going to make them a boatlad of money anyway.I'm a Jets season ticket holder and they haven't announced anything yet but the Giants have said the price will be at least $1,500 for most seats and up to $20,000 for some. I'm expecting the Jets to make a similiar announcement soon.

Now, do u have to pay that money right away... especially when 10gs or more. Do u get to make yrly installments?

 

[PSULions]

For the Panthers the PSLs are set up like this:

Lower bowl:

25 yd. - 25 yd. = 20,000 w/ $1,000 for season ticket / seat

25 yd - end zone = 15,000 w/ $900 for season ticket / seat

End zone = $7,500 w/ $780 for a season ticket / seat

Club section:

$7,500 per PSL w/ $1,700- $4,150 for season tickets depending on the location

Upper bowl:

$3,000 per PSL w/ $380 - $610 for season tickets depending on the location

The $1,500 per PSL you mention for the Giants seats is good for Upper Bowl seats as it is likely that the Jets fans are paying the other $1,500 for those seats when the Giants are on the road since they share the same facility. I hear the Cowboys PSLs are quite expensive in comparison.

PSLs are both good and bad. Without PSLs, my Panthers would not exist and I would be able to see them every Sunday afternoon. However, the PSL contract is lopsided towards the teams. You get the right to purchase the # of seats each year so your seat location will always be the same. You are also obligated to purchase all playoff tickets as well and if you do NOT pay for your season tickets or playoff tickets (say your team sucks out loud) and you want to drop your season tickets, they have you by the balls, as ownership of the seats revert back to the team if you do not keep your account current and if you lay out some serious jack years before you lose your PSL investment, which stinks. You can transfer the PSLs to another person so you can sell them and recoup your some of your original investment or possibly make money if the team has been very competitive, but the team will charge your a transfer fee to move the account to the new person. The Panthers transfer fee is $300, so as usual the team will take it's cut one way or another.

Hope that helps you out.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

This is pretty common practice for teams that open new stadiums, GB started PSL after their renovation. I don't know if all teams are like this but in GB if you give up your tickets and someone else picks them up your PSL fee is returned to you.

Is that how they work... I never heard of this until now. so the owners collect ur money... collect interest on it; then return ur $$ to u when your done.

 

[PSULions]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

This is pretty common practice for teams that open new stadiums, GB started PSL after their renovation. I don't know if all teams are like this but in GB if you give up your tickets and someone else picks them up your PSL fee is returned to you.

Is that how they work... I never heard of this until now. so the owners collect ur money... collect interest on it; then return ur $$ to u when your done.

I think that is NOT the norm. I believe the season tickets of the Green Bay season tickets actually have a small percentage ownership of the team. The waiting list their is sooooo long that they have no issue finding willing to pay for the PSL and the season tickets, so they return the PSL investment back to the owner. I may be incorrect as I am not a GB season ticket owner, but since I have Panthers season tickets and have two PSLs for the Panthers, I am pretty certain that the Panthers PSL contract is more typical of the league as a whole.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

This is pretty common practice for teams that open new stadiums, GB started PSL after their renovation. I don't know if all teams are like this but in GB if you give up your tickets and someone else picks them up your PSL fee is returned to you.

Is that how they work... I never heard of this until now. so the owners collect ur money... collect interest on it; then return ur $$ to u when your done.

Not all teams. In most cases it is yours to sell when you want to give them up - so in theory you could make a profit on them.As to your first question, I don't know but my guess is it must be paid upfront.

 

[Bushead]

For the Panthers the PSLs are set up like this:

Lower bowl:

25 yd. - 25 yd. = 20,000 w/ $1,000 for season ticket / seat

25 yd - end zone = 15,000 w/ $900 for season ticket / seat

End zone = $7,500 w/ $780 for a season ticket / seat

Club section:

$7,500 per PSL w/ $1,700- $4,150 for season tickets depending on the location

Upper bowl:

$3,000 per PSL w/ $380 - $610 for season tickets depending on the location

The $1,500 per PSL you mention for the Giants seats is good for Upper Bowl seats as it is likely that the Jets fans are paying the other $1,500 for those seats when the Giants are on the road since they share the same facility. I hear the Cowboys PSLs are quite expensive in comparison.

PSLs are both good and bad. Without PSLs, my Panthers would not exist and I would be able to see them every Sunday afternoon. However, the PSL contract is lopsided towards the teams. You get the right to purchase the # of seats each year so your seat location will always be the same. You are also obligated to purchase all playoff tickets as well and if you do NOT pay for your season tickets or playoff tickets (say your team sucks out loud) and you want to drop your season tickets, they have you by the balls, as ownership of the seats revert back to the team if you do not keep your account current and if you lay out some serious jack years before you lose your PSL investment, which stinks. You can transfer the PSLs to another person so you can sell them and recoup your some of your original investment or possibly make money if the team has been very competitive, but the team will charge your a transfer fee to move the account to the new person. The Panthers transfer fee is $300, so as usual the team will take it's cut one way or another.

Hope that helps you out.

The Eagles have a similar arangement, but rather than a PSL, it was called a SBL (staduim builders license) - I assume they serve the same purpose. The Club seat SBL's mid-field were $3000, the tickets in that section are now about $3700. I think the highest PSL's in the stadium were $3500, which were lower bowl mid-field. The total amount was due the first year of the lease. That is the other difference, it is only a 10 year lease (or less if you chose so) on the seats. I am entitled to transfer the license at my own discretion at any time during the term, the only obligation is that the transfer is registered with the Eagles. The other nice thing is that (at least with the club seats) by signing a 10 year lease, if the Eagels go to the Super Bowl I automatically get a ticket at face value (in 2004 they were $750)for every 2 seats I hold.

 

[gump]

Tampa's PSL is equal to a year of tickets.

You get 5% back per year. Problem with that is, they raise the prices 5% to counter.

If you give your tickets up, you get nothing back. If you keep your tickets thru the 10-year deal, you get the 50% of the PSL left back.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

For the Panthers the PSLs are set up like this:

Lower bowl:

25 yd. - 25 yd. = 20,000 w/ $1,000 for season ticket / seat

25 yd - end zone = 15,000 w/ $900 for season ticket / seat

End zone = $7,500 w/ $780 for a season ticket / seat

Club section:

$7,500 per PSL w/ $1,700- $4,150 for season tickets depending on the location

Upper bowl:

$3,000 per PSL w/ $380 - $610 for season tickets depending on the location

The $1,500 per PSL you mention for the Giants seats is good for Upper Bowl seats as it is likely that the Jets fans are paying the other $1,500 for those seats when the Giants are on the road since they share the same facility. I hear the Cowboys PSLs are quite expensive in comparison.

PSLs are both good and bad. Without PSLs, my Panthers would not exist and I would be able to see them every Sunday afternoon. However, the PSL contract is lopsided towards the teams. You get the right to purchase the # of seats each year so your seat location will always be the same. You are also obligated to purchase all playoff tickets as well and if you do NOT pay for your season tickets or playoff tickets (say your team sucks out loud) and you want to drop your season tickets, they have you by the balls, as ownership of the seats revert back to the team if you do not keep your account current and if you lay out some serious jack years before you lose your PSL investment, which stinks. You can transfer the PSLs to another person so you can sell them and recoup your some of your original investment or possibly make money if the team has been very competitive, but the team will charge your a transfer fee to move the account to the new person. The Panthers transfer fee is $300, so as usual the team will take it's cut one way or another.

Hope that helps you out.

The Eagles have a similar arangement, but rather than a PSL, it was called a SBL (staduim builders license) - I assume they serve the same purpose. The Club seat SBL's mid-field were $3000, the tickets in that section are now about $3700. I think the highest PSL's in the stadium were $3500, which were lower bowl mid-field. The total amount was due the first year of the lease. That is the other difference, it is only a 10 year lease (or less if you chose so) on the seats. I am entitled to transfer the license at my own discretion at any time during the term, the only obligation is that the transfer is registered with the Eagles. The other nice thing is that (at least with the club seats) by signing a 10 year lease, if the Eagels go to the Super Bowl I automatically get a ticket at face value (in 2004 they were $750)for every 2 seats I hold.

PHI had a number of seats without PSLs (SBLs or whatever they want to call them). Thats the way to go IMO. Offer a choice and dont force out the average joe from the games.

 

[MCguidance]

I waited 13 years to get my Jets season tickets, I was 12 then. I finally got them this year.... I knew they would go to PSLs, so I can't complain. But I really don't know if I will be able to afford anything than the estimated basline PSL of $1200. They range to $50k...but I guess that's a bargain compared to the Cowboys stadium.

And when I took the online quiz, they mentioned 3 options for when a ticket holder gave up his/her seats: 1. An online marketplace such as Ticketmaster to post your PSL; 2. Have a guarantee that if/when you give them up, the team will buy them back for the amount you paid (any econ. course will teach you this is an awful option); 3. Sell them by any means you want for any price you want.

If they choose the 3rd, the PSL really becomes like a stock - it could increase in value or plummet. Much of that depends on the teams' record, the economy, etc. One thing is certain, gone are the days when a lower income 50 yard line 10 rows up ticket holder can see a game with his kids unless they are given the tickets.

 

[Bushead]

For the Panthers the PSLs are set up like this:

Lower bowl:

25 yd. - 25 yd. = 20,000 w/ $1,000 for season ticket / seat

25 yd - end zone = 15,000 w/ $900 for season ticket / seat

End zone = $7,500 w/ $780 for a season ticket / seat

Club section:

$7,500 per PSL w/ $1,700- $4,150 for season tickets depending on the location

Upper bowl:

$3,000 per PSL w/ $380 - $610 for season tickets depending on the location

The $1,500 per PSL you mention for the Giants seats is good for Upper Bowl seats as it is likely that the Jets fans are paying the other $1,500 for those seats when the Giants are on the road since they share the same facility. I hear the Cowboys PSLs are quite expensive in comparison.

PSLs are both good and bad. Without PSLs, my Panthers would not exist and I would be able to see them every Sunday afternoon. However, the PSL contract is lopsided towards the teams. You get the right to purchase the # of seats each year so your seat location will always be the same. You are also obligated to purchase all playoff tickets as well and if you do NOT pay for your season tickets or playoff tickets (say your team sucks out loud) and you want to drop your season tickets, they have you by the balls, as ownership of the seats revert back to the team if you do not keep your account current and if you lay out some serious jack years before you lose your PSL investment, which stinks. You can transfer the PSLs to another person so you can sell them and recoup your some of your original investment or possibly make money if the team has been very competitive, but the team will charge your a transfer fee to move the account to the new person. The Panthers transfer fee is $300, so as usual the team will take it's cut one way or another.

Hope that helps you out.

The Eagles have a similar arangement, but rather than a PSL, it was called a SBL (staduim builders license) - I assume they serve the same purpose. The Club seat SBL's mid-field were $3000, the tickets in that section are now about $3700. I think the highest PSL's in the stadium were $3500, which were lower bowl mid-field. The total amount was due the first year of the lease. That is the other difference, it is only a 10 year lease (or less if you chose so) on the seats. I am entitled to transfer the license at my own discretion at any time during the term, the only obligation is that the transfer is registered with the Eagles. The other nice thing is that (at least with the club seats) by signing a 10 year lease, if the Eagels go to the Super Bowl I automatically get a ticket at face value (in 2004 they were $750)for every 2 seats I hold.

PHI had a number of seats without PSLs (SBLs or whatever they want to call them). Thats the way to go IMO. Offer a choice and dont force out the average joe from the games.

Yes, I think it was actually quite a large amount as well. I don't think there are SBL's anwhere in the upper bowl with the exception of the club area. actually I found this:

What areas of the stadium have Stadium Builder Licenses?

All lower level seats require an SBL

The club level sections C21, C22, C40 and C1

The first 5 rows (balcony) of the East club level sections: C20 and C23

Other scattered seats throughout the club level The first 5 rows (balcony) of the second level

 

[Mystery Achiever]

There's some info on thisin this FFA thread. The Jets are doing surveys for input on theirs. Some of the questions/options are in the thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...556&hl=psls

ETA - I think this is mentioned in the thread, but somethong different for NY than other teams is that there would be 2 PSLs per seat since it is a shared stadium.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

 

[KellysHeroes]

There's some info on thisin this FFA thread. The Jets are doing surveys for input on theirs. Some of the questions/options are in the thread.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...556&hl=psls

ETA - I think this is mentioned in the thread, but somethong different for NY than other teams is that there would be 2 PSLs per seat since it is a shared stadium.

Yeap.. 2 different teams, different owners.. so eash seat will have a PSL on it.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business.

You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

 

[TLEF316]

9th row 45 yard line. We've had them for 25 years. (which is basically my entire life) My dad and uncle both make planety of dough, but neither one is willing to pay the almost 6 figures its gonna take the earn the "right" to continue to buy our tickets.

The jets ownership is rich as all hell and will make boatloads off the new stadium in the long term. They've never put a championship level product on the field in my life time, yet they still expect my family to fork over all that cash. It's a shame. Everyone knows Woody Johnson doesnt need the money.

 

[coolnerd]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business. You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner. In fact, teams, the Cowboys for sure, will loan you money i.e. finance the PSL over time.PSLs have been a part of most if not all NFL stadium deals for the 12-15 years, but now that New York is involved. funny how now it is an issue.

 

[shimtown]

Yes, I think it was actually quite a large amount as well. I don't think there are SBL's anwhere in the upper bowl with the exception of the club area.

actually I found this:

What areas of the stadium have Stadium Builder Licenses?

All lower level seats require an SBL

The club level sections C21, C22, C40 and C1

The first 5 rows (balcony) of the East club level sections: C20 and C23

Other scattered seats throughout the club level The first 5 rows (balcony) of the second level

The first 5 rows of the upper deck are sbl's. The Eagles prices were:Lower Level:

Zone A: $3,700 (Reduced to $3,145 for season ticket holders.)

Zone B: $2,700 (Reduced to $2,296 for season ticket holders.)

Zone C: $2,100 (Reduced to $1,785 for season ticket holders.)

Zone D: $1,800 (Reduced to $1,530 for season ticket holders.)

Club Level:

Club 1: $2,900

Club 2: $2,500

Upper Level:

Loge 1: $3,000 (Reduced to $2,550 for season ticket holders.)

Loge 2: $2,100 (Reduced to $2,100 for season ticket holders.)

Loge 3: $1,800 (Reduced to $1,530 for season ticket holders.)

Here is a site that sells and tracks SBL. You can see a link for previous sales on there.

http://seasonticketrights.com/TeamSeats.aspx?lid=20

My view as a NON SBL ticket holder:

I just couldn't afford it. Also I looked at how long it would take to re coop that money to move into the lower bowl. My biggest concern is what do you do when they stink. My work schedule doesn't allow me to attend every game and I remember during the Kotite days I couldn't get half price for the tickets let alone the two preseason games I must buy each year. It seams to be profitable now for people who sell there SBL tickets at a huge profit to offset some of the costs because they have been competitive for a while but you never know. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[kylechoffman]

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Gaints and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

This is pretty common practice for teams that open new stadiums, GB started PSL after their renovation. I don't know if all teams are like this but in GB if you give up your tickets and someone else picks them up your PSL fee is returned to you.

Is that how they work... I never heard of this until now. so the owners collect ur money... collect interest on it; then return ur $$ to u when your done.

Not all teams. In most cases it is yours to sell when you want to give them up - so in theory you could make a profit on them.As to your first question, I don't know but my guess is it must be paid upfront.

Chargers dont have PSL - they prob will whenever they get a new stadium.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business. You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner. In fact, teams, the Cowboys for sure, will loan you money i.e. finance the PSL over time.PSLs have been a part of most if not all NFL stadium deals for the 12-15 years, but now that New York is involved. funny how now it is an issue.

Guess I have been behind on this... NE and NY didn't have these until this yr... so I never knew.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business. You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner. In fact, teams, the Cowboys for sure, will loan you money i.e. finance the PSL over time.PSLs have been a part of most if not all NFL stadium deals for the 12-15 years, but now that New York is involved. funny how now it is an issue.

In the Packers case, it is termed a license but is the functional equivalent of an interest-free loan to the team. The team will refund the PSL principal if you turn in the tickets. They will then make the tickets available to the next person on the waiting list, who would pay the PSL. These are not transferrable to other individuals but have to go through the team (due to the long waiting list), so the situation is essentially the exact opposite of the example you gave with the Cowboys.The Packers did this approx. 8 years ago and there was substantial fan outrage at the time, although it was very clear that the PSL was priced way under market. Many long-time season ticket holders had 20 or 30 seats (local bars and long-time GB residents) which they would finance each year by contracting with ticket brokers. Adding fuel to the debate was the fact that the Packers first said they would finance the PSL's over time for cash-strapped fans, but then backed out on that and simply referred the fans to a few banks who were reportedly willing to do so at market finance rates. This sucked for many long-time fans, but worked to my advantage as that is how I got my season tickets (I paid $2,800 for the PSL for two seats from a friend (he had six seats) and we drew up a contract whereby I get the two season tickets and any associated playoff rights every year untl one of us decides to end the deal).

Here's an interesting article on the Packers PSL decision, which argues the Packers PSL's were substantially uderpriced (I agree completely) and that the team left a huge amount of $$ on the table: http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv25n4/v25n4-5.pdf

 

[coolnerd]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business. You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner. In fact, teams, the Cowboys for sure, will loan you money i.e. finance the PSL over time.PSLs have been a part of most if not all NFL stadium deals for the 12-15 years, but now that New York is involved. funny how now it is an issue.

Guess I have been behind on this... NE and NY didn't have these until this yr... so I never knew.

I did not mean it as a shot at you, but I have seen more on PSLs in the last two months or so than over several years. Stadiums deals are one of the great scams in America.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I did not mean it as a shot at you, but I have seen more on PSLs in the last two months or so than over several years. Stadiums deals are one of the great scams in America.

None taken... I have heard of it; but never looked into it until it affected my area.

 

[sholditch]

Maybe this is because I live in Alabama and root for the Bears, but at that price, is going to the games even worth it?

 

[coolnerd]

Packers are $200 per seat per game, including the 2 preseason games hosted at Lambeau each year - meaning for the "Green" package (7 games) it was $1,400 per season ticket and for the "Gold" package (3 games) it was $600 per season ticket. The Packer PSL is essentially an interest free loan to the team. They pay back the principal if you cancel your ticket rights.

Most of them are loans... correct? Your loaning the team money, and get it back either by the team or by the next guy who wants the seats. But still, what it says to most people is... if your not in the $150g or high class of life; we, your local NFL football Team, do not want your business. You need to be advove avg income to afford season tickets, but now... once your team announces that theres a PSL attached to your tickets... you need to have anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 laying around.

The sad part is, people do it. If everyone stood up and say... "here, take my tickets." the owners would have to give this practice up.

I can't fell bad for any football owner... most of them bring in huge profits, and the NFL is the richiest sport ever.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner. In fact, teams, the Cowboys for sure, will loan you money i.e. finance the PSL over time.PSLs have been a part of most if not all NFL stadium deals for the 12-15 years, but now that New York is involved. funny how now it is an issue.

In the Packers case, it is termed a license but is the functional equivalent of an interest-free loan to the team. The team will refund the PSL principal if you turn in the tickets. They will then make the tickets available to the next person on the waiting list, who would pay the PSL. These are not transferrable to other individuals but have to go through the team (due to the long waiting list), so the situation is essentially the exact opposite of the example you gave with the Cowboys.The Packers did this approx. 8 years ago and there was substantial fan outrage at the time, although it was very clear that the PSL was priced way under market. Many long-time season ticket holders had 20 or 30 seats (local bars and long-time GB residents) which they would finance each year by contracting with ticket brokers. Adding fuel to the debate was the fact that the Packers first said they would finance the PSL's over time for cash-strapped fans, but then backed out on that and simply referred the fans to a few banks who were reportedly willing to do so at market finance rates. This sucked for many long-time fans, but worked to my advantage as that is how I got my season tickets (I paid $2,800 for the PSL for two seats from a friend (he had six seats) and we drew up a contract whereby I get the two season tickets and any associated playoff rights every year untl one of us decides to end the deal).

Here's an interesting article on the Packers PSL decision, which argues the Packers PSL's were substantially uderpriced (I agree completely) and that the team left a huge amount of $$ on the table: http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv25n4/v25n4-5.pdf

As you describe it, the Packers deal seems not only undervalued when looking at other teams, but a lot more fair. Even losing the value of not having the money, being able to get it back when you return the tickets makes the bottom end more reasonable, although w/o the chance that you could sell the spot for a profit as in many stadium deals.

 

[renesauz]

9th row 45 yard line. We've had them for 25 years. (which is basically my entire life) My dad and uncle both make planety of dough, but neither one is willing to pay the almost 6 figures its gonna take the earn the "right" to continue to buy our tickets.

This is a huge issue in my book, and should be looked into by congress, as it could be viewed as an un-necessary price increase. The NFL is a monopoly, and as such is subject to governmental oversight. The fact that it's a sport (instead of a utility) is immaterial. The sudden addition of a "PSL fee/license" to the season ticket cost amounts to a price increase in the THOUSANDS of percentage points.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner.

If you owned the seats, then why do you then have to buy the tickets? If a consumer buys the right to a seat for $50,000...then he really should OWN the seat, and be able to visit that seat at any and all events.I am a huge fan of the NFL, but PSL's are an issue that I take great offense to. It's one of the issues that makes me second guess supporting the NFl in any way.

 

[coolnerd]

9th row 45 yard line. We've had them for 25 years. (which is basically my entire life) My dad and uncle both make planety of dough, but neither one is willing to pay the almost 6 figures its gonna take the earn the "right" to continue to buy our tickets.

This is a huge issue in my book, and should be looked into by congress, as it could be viewed as an un-necessary price increase. The NFL is a monopoly, and as such is subject to governmental oversight. The fact that it's a sport (instead of a utility) is immaterial. The sudden addition of a "PSL fee/license" to the season ticket cost amounts to a price increase in the THOUSANDS of percentage points.

PSLs are not loans to the team, but an outright purchase of seat ownership with no refunds. the only way to get you money back is to sell it another owner.

If you owned the seats, then why do you then have to buy the tickets? If a consumer buys the right to a seat for $50,000...then he really should OWN the seat, and be able to visit that seat at any and all events.I am a huge fan of the NFL, but PSL's are an issue that I take great offense to. It's one of the issues that makes me second guess supporting the NFl in any way.

I did not use incorrect language, but the "owners" of PSL are entering into an agreement that they really only own the right to purchase tickets. While I think it is a terrible scam, as long as people continue to purchase these rights, i doubt that there is going to be any significant legislation to stop the teams. The NFL is as closest to having your cake and eating too, as one can get. The stadiums have a significant amount of public financing (remember more your neighbors don't give a darn about football than do), then are able to charge to high prices not only to see the event, but can get people to pay for the right to buy the tickets to see the event.

 

[renesauz]

I did not use incorrect language, but the "owners" of PSL are entering into an agreement that they really only own the right to purchase tickets. While I think it is a terrible scam, as long as people continue to purchase these rights, i doubt that there is going to be any significant legislation to stop the teams. The NFL is as closest to having your cake and eating too, as one can get. The stadiums have a significant amount of public financing (remember more your neighbors don't give a darn about football than do), then are able to charge to high prices not only to see the event, but can get people to pay for the right to buy the tickets to see the event.

You weren't misunderstood...I was trying to make a point.PSL's are one part of a public backlash against public funding for stadiums. But there is far more to it all, and the city makes a ton of money off the games too. How much does the city make on every $6.00 beer sold at the game? I'll give you a hint...it's a hell of a lot more then from the single $3.00 beer at the local pubs. How about the hotel tax? Do you realize how much of the price of a hotel room is actually tax paid to the city? NFL cities make money from the presence of a team. While the amount could certainly be questioned, the fact is that cities do raise significant tax funds from the teams, so it is more then reasonable for the cities to help build the stadiums.Stadium funding is a complex issue, and PSL's are a short-sighted, ignorant solution based more on greed then on fiscal reality. IE: The city and the owners both want the extra money from a newer, nicer stadium, but neither really wants to invest the money. Worse, many of the stadiums being replaced are still sound, reasonable structures.Your final point is a poor one to make. People paid for their power bills, and phone bills, before the government started regulating the power company too....and back then, electricity was a luxury. Just because something is a luxury doesn't mean it can't also be an unfair monopoly. When Ma Bell was broken up, phone service was still considered a luxury. Cable TV service has always been a luxury, and was a monopoly in many areas/places. Just because people pay for it, doesn't make it OK if their is no viable alternative (reasonable competition), regardless of whether the good/service is a necesity or a luxury.

 

[Sunday@1]

Whatever your feelings are on PSL/SBL, we all know they are a money making scam. This is the reality of sports as well as all businesses who take full advantage of their customers because they can. 25 years ago you probably said "i am not paying monthly for TV" How did that work? Now people are saying the same about Radio and I see many with portable Sirius radio boxes. It is just the way it is.I am a long time Eagles ST holder who passed on the offer for a seat license. I regret it very much. The offer was roughly $2000 per seat stretched over 3 payments (15 months?) while they built Lincoln Financial Field. By refusing the SBL, I was still offered seats but they were second level (I had the same at the Vet but they are much higher) and very close to the top.New stadiums may not give you an option of passing on the PSL/SBL and still retaining some seating. I see teams can vary pricing anywhere from $1000 -$50000. I would say get what you can afford if you like going to the games. Recently, I was able to purchase Club seats at LFF. While they did not come with a big $$ outlay up front, they come with a high game price and more amenities. I am now also locked into a 10 year lease. Again, we know it is a scam but I consider it more of a time share. Like a time share, I have those seats for 10 times per year and hopefully more. It really is the same as having one week at Disney where you paid to get into the time share and some yearly fees. Using another sports similarity, some golfers like to play at a country club. Of course they could play at a public course but they choose something more but it comes with a high ticket. It all depends what you want.I would say try to stay in if you can. If not, the ticket brokers will swarm and you will never see another game. I am close to the Giants situation because friends have 3 seats behind the visitor bench (over 50 years) and they will either have to pony up big $$ or lose the seats. It is tough but it is also reality of sports and especially new stadiums. I believe it is called "welfare for the rich".Note - The Yankees have not yet detailed their new seating. Don't be surprised to see them be the 1st MLB team to jump onto this vehicle.....

I live in CT, but listen to NY sports stations... what a joke the Giants and Jets are pulling. Both team will begin charging PSL to their season ticket holders next season. Uggg.

 

[KKrew]

Good thread - thanks!

I guess Krafty ain't so bad after all! The Patriots could easily have PSL'd us after the first SB win, moving into CMGI ... Gillette. However, they chose to charge the highest average ticket price in the NFL. They held those prices for four years and then whacked us for about a 35% increase this year.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This is a huge issue in my book, and should be looked into by congress, as it could be viewed as an un-necessary price increase. The NFL is a monopoly, and as such is subject to governmental oversight. The fact that it's a sport (instead of a utility) is immaterial. The sudden addition of a "PSL fee/license" to the season ticket cost amounts to a price increase in the THOUSANDS of percentage points.

First, saying the NFL is a monopoly is too broad. To employers, the NFL is a monopoly. No one is going to wonder what Tim Tebow will be doing in the fall of 2010. He has one legitimate option.To consumers, the NFL has some characteristics of a monopoly, but that's not relevant. To consumers, the NFL stadiums do not have a monopoly on viewing NFL games. Watching games on TV is a pretty good substitute to watching games in the stands. So no, for NFL viewers, there's no monopoly action going on when a team raises its ticket prices.

That being said, I wonder why in the world you would view the price increase as necessary. One, quite obviously, teams have to pay a whole lot of money for stadiums. When an owner has a new, out of nowhere $1B expense, that doesn't make raising prices unnecessary. If the city isn't going to finance the stadium, it makes perfect sense for the owner to add PSLs to help ease the burden of the huge cost of making a stadium.

That said, NFL tickets have been under priced for years. PSLs are necessary to help balance the supply and demand curves. Before, a ticketbroker could buy 50 season tickets for maybe $30,000/season, and then sell them for $60,000/season. That $30K doesn't go to Joe Fan, it goes to companies and persons that sell tickets for huge markups. Now I can understand someone not being offended by this practice, but I can't understand why someone would be offended if the NFL takes the money instead of giving it to the middle man, and making the full $60K themselves.

NFL season ticket waiting lists can be over a decade long for a number of teams. That's a pretty good indication that ticket prices are too low, and implementing PSLs instead of raising ticket prices is arguably a better way of handling the problem. But even if it's not, and it's stupid, let the market tell the owners that it's stupid.

 

[renesauz]

This is a huge issue in my book, and should be looked into by congress, as it could be viewed as an un-necessary price increase. The NFL is a monopoly, and as such is subject to governmental oversight. The fact that it's a sport (instead of a utility) is immaterial. The sudden addition of a "PSL fee/license" to the season ticket cost amounts to a price increase in the THOUSANDS of percentage points.

First, saying the NFL is a monopoly is too broad. To employers, the NFL is a monopoly. No one is going to wonder what Tim Tebow will be doing in the fall of 2010. He has one legitimate option.To consumers, the NFL has some characteristics of a monopoly, but that's not relevant. To consumers, the NFL stadiums do not have a monopoly on viewing NFL games. Watching games on TV is a pretty good substitute to watching games in the stands. So no, for NFL viewers, there's no monopoly action going on when a team raises its ticket prices.

That being said, I wonder why in the world you would view the price increase as necessary. One, quite obviously, teams have to pay a whole lot of money for stadiums. When an owner has a new, out of nowhere $1B expense, that doesn't make raising prices unnecessary. If the city isn't going to finance the stadium, it makes perfect sense for the owner to add PSLs to help ease the burden of the huge cost of making a stadium.

That said, NFL tickets have been under priced for years. PSLs are necessary to help balance the supply and demand curves. Before, a ticketbroker could buy 50 season tickets for maybe $30,000/season, and then sell them for $60,000/season. That $30K doesn't go to Joe Fan, it goes to companies and persons that sell tickets for huge markups. Now I can understand someone not being offended by this practice, but I can't understand why someone would be offended if the NFL takes the money instead of giving it to the middle man, and making the full $60K themselves.

NFL season ticket waiting lists can be over a decade long for a number of teams. That's a pretty good indication that ticket prices are too low, and implementing PSLs instead of raising ticket prices is arguably a better way of handling the problem. But even if it's not, and it's stupid, let the market tell the owners that it's stupid.

There are no other comparable leagues to watch, so it meets at least the most basic definitions of "monopoly". As I suggested in my post, the simple fact that somebody is paying for it does not make it OK. If you were to apply that logic unilaterally, electricity would cost 10X what it does, but only 30% of the people would have it. Same with phone, and TV service.What I termed "un-necessary" was some of the new stadiums. They aren't being built because of a clear "need", but out of pure "greed"....because once the building costs are covered, the income generated is much higher then the stadiums being replaced. But at 1 billion per, neither the city nor the team can balance the books (cost). So instead, several NFL teams have turned to the fan, taken advantage of their MONOPOLY, and passed this un-necessary cost along, knowing we'd pay it (at least those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford it) simply because their is no competitive alternative. And why wouldn't they...they aren't paying for the stadium, but they will reap the rewards. The city does also, while satisfying the bulk of it's populace because the non-football fan didn't have his tax-dollars involved (although he too enjoys the benefits).

Meanwhile, the NFL is the richest sports league in the world. Player salaries are far higher then what it would take to get the guys to play. Do you really think an NFL player would go elsewhere should his salary be $5 mil instead of $10? Or even 2 mil? Anti-trust laws were instituted for EXACTLY this type of scenario...where the company can set virtually any price it wishes because of the lack of competition.

Why are we willing to give the NFL a pass on it's GREEDY policies and antics? Because it's entertainement? Because it doesn't directly affect the non-football fan?

I'm NOT blaming the NFL. After all, the basic operating premise of any business it to make money, as much as possible. They are doing it. The fault lies in us, and our lawmakers, for letting them take it to this extreme.

You want the market to set the price....but the market is handicapped in a monopolized environment.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This is a huge issue in my book, and should be looked into by congress, as it could be viewed as an un-necessary price increase. The NFL is a monopoly, and as such is subject to governmental oversight. The fact that it's a sport (instead of a utility) is immaterial. The sudden addition of a "PSL fee/license" to the season ticket cost amounts to a price increase in the THOUSANDS of percentage points.

First, saying the NFL is a monopoly is too broad. To employers, the NFL is a monopoly. No one is going to wonder what Tim Tebow will be doing in the fall of 2010. He has one legitimate option.To consumers, the NFL has some characteristics of a monopoly, but that's not relevant. To consumers, the NFL stadiums do not have a monopoly on viewing NFL games. Watching games on TV is a pretty good substitute to watching games in the stands. So no, for NFL viewers, there's no monopoly action going on when a team raises its ticket prices.

That being said, I wonder why in the world you would view the price increase as necessary. One, quite obviously, teams have to pay a whole lot of money for stadiums. When an owner has a new, out of nowhere $1B expense, that doesn't make raising prices unnecessary. If the city isn't going to finance the stadium, it makes perfect sense for the owner to add PSLs to help ease the burden of the huge cost of making a stadium.

That said, NFL tickets have been under priced for years. PSLs are necessary to help balance the supply and demand curves. Before, a ticketbroker could buy 50 season tickets for maybe $30,000/season, and then sell them for $60,000/season. That $30K doesn't go to Joe Fan, it goes to companies and persons that sell tickets for huge markups. Now I can understand someone not being offended by this practice, but I can't understand why someone would be offended if the NFL takes the money instead of giving it to the middle man, and making the full $60K themselves.

NFL season ticket waiting lists can be over a decade long for a number of teams. That's a pretty good indication that ticket prices are too low, and implementing PSLs instead of raising ticket prices is arguably a better way of handling the problem. But even if it's not, and it's stupid, let the market tell the owners that it's stupid.

There are no other comparable leagues to watch, so it meets at least the most basic definitions of "monopoly". As I suggested in my post, the simple fact that somebody is paying for it does not make it OK. If you were to apply that logic unilaterally, electricity would cost 10X what it does, but only 30% of the people would have it. Same with phone, and TV service.What I termed "un-necessary" was some of the new stadiums. They aren't being built because of a clear "need", but out of pure "greed"....because once the building costs are covered, the income generated is much higher then the stadiums being replaced. But at 1 billion per, neither the city nor the team can balance the books (cost). So instead, several NFL teams have turned to the fan, taken advantage of their MONOPOLY, and passed this un-necessary cost along, knowing we'd pay it (at least those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford it) simply because their is no competitive alternative. And why wouldn't they...they aren't paying for the stadium, but they will reap the rewards. The city does also, while satisfying the bulk of it's populace because the non-football fan didn't have his tax-dollars involved (although he too enjoys the benefits).

Meanwhile, the NFL is the richest sports league in the world. Player salaries are far higher then what it would take to get the guys to play. Do you really think an NFL player would go elsewhere should his salary be $5 mil instead of $10? Or even 2 mil? Anti-trust laws were instituted for EXACTLY this type of scenario...where the company can set virtually any price it wishes because of the lack of competition.

Why are we willing to give the NFL a pass on it's GREEDY policies and antics? Because it's entertainement? Because it doesn't directly affect the non-football fan?

I'm NOT blaming the NFL. After all, the basic operating premise of any business it to make money, as much as possible. They are doing it. The fault lies in us, and our lawmakers, for letting them take it to this extreme.

You want the market to set the price....but the market is handicapped in a monopolized environment.

You keep saying monopoly, but it's wrong. Watching the games at home is a very comparable substitute to attending the games live. No one is forcing you to go to the games. The electricity example or the phone line examples are not good ones, because there is no substitute there.Do you think owners should not be allowed to build bigger, newer stadiums when there is demand for them? To whom should they have to get permission, and for what reason, if they want to make a new stadium? You argue that the owners are being greedy, but building a new stadium is certainly not a guarantee of future income. The stadium could end up being a loser for the owner.

You seem to ignore the fact that demand for the in-game seats are significantly higher than supply. What is your solution to the problem of having 300,000 fans that want to see a game with 70,000 seats? If the NFL owner significantly increases the price of the tickets, the owner may end up with 70,000 fans that want to see a game with 70,000 seats. That is simply choosing price discrimination instead of some other discrimination (first in line, lottery, etc.) to deal with the supply problem, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's actually the most preferable kind of discrimination.

And while it's not relevant to this discussion, yes, I think some NFL players would go elsewhere if salaries were slashed as you claim.

 

[KellysHeroes]

some great posts in here... chase made a good point about other business being able to purchase a 3rd of the stadium and make profits... and that is wrong; but the owner of the team should have this looked into and taken care of.

Its just gut wretching when you hear stories about the poor guy whoes been going to games for yrs, even the bad years... a true fan of that team, can barely afford the tickets anyway; and then come the letter that says "you need to deposit $10,000 to the team, or else we will find a new owner for your seats." Then that guys has no choice to turn over his tickets to some coporate big shot w/ deep pockets.

Owners don't want the "true" fan in his building... he doesn't want the guy that wears his team's name during the weekend, the guy that has that team logo on his children's cloths, the guy who watches the draft Saturday and Sunday afternoon.

The Owner wants the deep pocket, suit and tie guy who has thousands of dollars laying around and 8 out of 10, that same guy can give a rats A## about the team and who plays on it.... and that me sick. And that how the world goes works.

 

[TLEF316]

Owners don't want the "true" fan in his building... he doesn't want the guy that wears his team's name during the weekend, the guy that has that team logo on his children's cloths, the guy who watches the draft Saturday and Sunday afternoon. The Owner wants the deep pocket, suit and tie guy who has thousands of dollars laying around and 8 out of 10, that same guy can give a rats A## about the team and who plays on it.... and that me sick. And that how the world goes works.

The funny thing is that my dad is "that guy". Yeah, he roots for the team and cheers like hell when he goes to the games, but he's the kind of guy that wears khakis and sweaters to the game rather than a jersey. He wouldn't know Kerry Rhodes or Nick Mangold from a hole in the wall. He's got the type of disposable income that is needed to buy our seats. (again, 9th row, 45 yards line, rumored 15k PSL's) However, he's still refusing to pay the PSL out of principle. I am a HUGE Jets fan, and it kills me to know that i will never be able to get those seats back. But i know that paying those prices for a PSL is absolutely absurd. Yeah, i know some NYC based corporation will swoop in and buy them without thinking twice. I accept that. Still, it hurts to know that the loyal every day fan is being swept aside like this. It's not what sports are supposed to be about.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Owners don't want the "true" fan in his building... he doesn't want the guy that wears his team's name during the weekend, the guy that has that team logo on his children's cloths, the guy who watches the draft Saturday and Sunday afternoon. The Owner wants the deep pocket, suit and tie guy who has thousands of dollars laying around and 8 out of 10, that same guy can give a rats A## about the team and who plays on it.... and that me sick. And that how the world goes works.

The funny thing is that my dad is "that guy". Yeah, he roots for the team and cheers like hell when he goes to the games, but he's the kind of guy that wears khakis and sweaters to the game rather than a jersey. He wouldn't know Kerry Rhodes or Nick Mangold from a hole in the wall. He's got the type of disposable income that is needed to buy our seats. (again, 9th row, 45 yards line, rumored 15k PSL's) However, he's still refusing to pay the PSL out of principle. I am a HUGE Jets fan, and it kills me to know that i will never be able to get those seats back. But i know that paying those prices for a PSL is absolutely absurd. Yeah, i know some NYC based corporation will swoop in and buy them without thinking twice. I accept that. Still, it hurts to know that the loyal every day fan is being swept aside like this. It's not what sports are supposed to be about.

I understand your point, but your argument boils down to "A wants to pay $10K for X, I want to pay $5K for X, but the owner of X should really sell it to me." It just doesn't make any sense. And while it's easy to think of the people who pay $10K for the seats as some bad guys, quite often it's somebody who values the tickets more than you, and really, really wants to see the game. That's why they're willing to pay more.Everyone should have a chance to buy season tickets, not just the people who bought them 20 years ago.

 

[TLEF316]

I have no illusions that the owners "should" sell to me. I also don't think the corporate guys are the "bad guys". However, i do think that a majority of them couldn't care less about the team or the game, and IMO, that's bad for the sport. They'll be there in September, basking in the sun and checking their blackberries. Then, in December, when the jets are 5-9, they'll be home, and the stadium will be empty.

As for everyone having the rights to buy tickets, i suppose i agree. I just don't think its right to force the average fan out and let some yuppie corporation fall right into primo seats just because they have a whole bunch of $$.

Add in the fact the teams are basically double dipping (both Jets and Giants will be charging PSL's for the same seats) and the whole thing stinks. It really does. You can throw out all the business logic that you want,(and most of it is obviously sound) but the fact is that its a really sad development that hurts the sport just so the owners can line their pockets.

What is the PSL even giving us really? From what i can see, PSL's in the new Jets/Giants stadium give you nothing other than the right to continue to buy your tickets.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Owners don't want the "true" fan in his building... he doesn't want the guy that wears his team's name during the weekend, the guy that has that team logo on his children's cloths, the guy who watches the draft Saturday and Sunday afternoon. The Owner wants the deep pocket, suit and tie guy who has thousands of dollars laying around and 8 out of 10, that same guy can give a rats A## about the team and who plays on it.... and that me sick. And that how the world goes works.

The funny thing is that my dad is "that guy". Yeah, he roots for the team and cheers like hell when he goes to the games, but he's the kind of guy that wears khakis and sweaters to the game rather than a jersey. He wouldn't know Kerry Rhodes or Nick Mangold from a hole in the wall. He's got the type of disposable income that is needed to buy our seats. (again, 9th row, 45 yards line, rumored 15k PSL's) However, he's still refusing to pay the PSL out of principle. I am a HUGE Jets fan, and it kills me to know that i will never be able to get those seats back. But i know that paying those prices for a PSL is absolutely absurd. Yeah, i know some NYC based corporation will swoop in and buy them without thinking twice. I accept that. Still, it hurts to know that the loyal every day fan is being swept aside like this. It's not what sports are supposed to be about.

I understand your point, but your argument boils down to "A wants to pay $10K for X, I want to pay $5K for X, but the owner of X should really sell it to me." It just doesn't make any sense. And while it's easy to think of the people who pay $10K for the seats as some bad guys, quite often it's somebody who values the tickets more than you, and really, really wants to see the game. That's why they're willing to pay more.Everyone should have a chance to buy season tickets, not just the people who bought them 20 years ago.

I understand what your saying... theres 70,000 seats w/ atleast 100,000 buyers... so the 70,000 that fork up the most should get the seats.It just doesn't feel good when your friendly nieghborhood NFL team tells u, "we don't want your kind around here"

 

[renesauz]

You keep saying monopoly, but it's wrong. Watching the games at home is a very comparable substitute to attending the games live. No one is forcing you to go to the games. The electricity example or the phone line examples are not good ones, because there is no substitute there.

Tell that to the guy who just lost seats he's been paying for for over a decade. And whether it's at home or at the park, it's still a monopoly. The NFL is getting billions from the networks too (which ultimately comes from the consumer). Chase....to be perfectly clear...a luxury entity can still be a monopoly. There is no substitute for the NFL!

Do you think owners should not be allowed to build bigger, newer stadiums when there is demand for them? To whom should they have to get permission, and for what reason, if they want to make a new stadium? You argue that the owners are being greedy, but building a new stadium is certainly not a guarantee of future income. The stadium could end up being a loser for the owner.

No...what's greedy is that they pass that cost along as PSL's. They take advantage of their monopolized market position to force the cost to the consumer (via PSLs) at very VERY LITTLE RISK to their own financial future.

You seem to ignore the fact that demand for the in-game seats are significantly higher than supply. What is your solution to the problem of having 300,000 fans that want to see a game with 70,000 seats? If the NFL owner significantly increases the price of the tickets, the owner may end up with 70,000 fans that want to see a game with 70,000 seats. That is simply choosing price discrimination instead of some other discrimination (first in line, lottery, etc.) to deal with the supply problem, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's actually the most preferable kind of discrimination.

We aren't talking about a routine price increase. We're talking about sudden increases not measured by a few % points, or even a few dozen % points. In some case these price increases are measured in THOUSANDs of % points.

And while it's not relevant to this discussion, yes, I think some NFL players would go elsewhere if salaries were slashed as you claim.

Umm.....no. Not even worth arguing this one. The vast majority of pro football players have no career paths open to them offering even 10% of what the NFL can offer. At even 25% of current salaries, only a handful of minimum wage players, and maybe a handful of aged (near retirement) vets would opt out.Obviously, we're on opposite side of this. I don't have a problem with new stadiums. I have a problem with how they are funded. Eventually, these sorts of business practices will come back to haunt the NFL. Ultimately, I love the NFL and I love football, and fear that the NFL is heading down a path of self-destruction.

 

[coolnerd]

Owners don't want the "true" fan in his building... he doesn't want the guy that wears his team's name during the weekend, the guy that has that team logo on his children's cloths, the guy who watches the draft Saturday and Sunday afternoon. The Owner wants the deep pocket, suit and tie guy who has thousands of dollars laying around and 8 out of 10, that same guy can give a rats A## about the team and who plays on it.... and that me sick. And that how the world goes works.

The funny thing is that my dad is "that guy". Yeah, he roots for the team and cheers like hell when he goes to the games, but he's the kind of guy that wears khakis and sweaters to the game rather than a jersey. He wouldn't know Kerry Rhodes or Nick Mangold from a hole in the wall. He's got the type of disposable income that is needed to buy our seats. (again, 9th row, 45 yards line, rumored 15k PSL's) However, he's still refusing to pay the PSL out of principle. I am a HUGE Jets fan, and it kills me to know that i will never be able to get those seats back. But i know that paying those prices for a PSL is absolutely absurd. Yeah, i know some NYC based corporation will swoop in and buy them without thinking twice. I accept that. Still, it hurts to know that the loyal every day fan is being swept aside like this. It's not what sports are supposed to be about.

I understand your point, but your argument boils down to "A wants to pay $10K for X, I want to pay $5K for X, but the owner of X should really sell it to me." It just doesn't make any sense. And while it's easy to think of the people who pay $10K for the seats as some bad guys, quite often it's somebody who values the tickets more than you, and really, really wants to see the game. That's why they're willing to pay more.Everyone should have a chance to buy season tickets, not just the people who bought them 20 years ago.

I understand what your saying... theres 70,000 seats w/ atleast 100,000 buyers... so the 70,000 that fork up the most should get the seats.It just doesn't feel good when your friendly nieghborhood NFL team tells u, "we don't want your kind around here"

Think that is personalizing the situation a bit much. The teams really only care that the person in the seat pays the PSL fee plus the cost of season tickets. the fact that some rich guy spent what equivalent to walk around money versus some average factory worker who maxes out a couple of credit cards to do it is insignificant to them.

 

[The Noid]

I just bought an Eagles SBL for 2 seats, lower level, close to mid-field. Original cost was $3,700 each in 2003 (and tickets $70/game.) I paid $7,500 each (and tickets now cost $130/game.)

According to this site, the SBL re-sale prices on these, and comprable, seats have flucuated between $5,875 - $10,750, with an average of $7,700, over the last two years.

So nowhere near the re-sale market in Pittsburgh, but way more stable than the Jets/Giants and Cowboys.

A couple years ago Forbes ranked the SBL/PSL values.

 

[dwarfboy]

I'm an Atlanta Falcons season ticket holder and they just sent a mailing stating they will sell PSLs when the new stadium is built. They didn't state a price. They also announced a new MLS team will play in the new stadium. I wonder if PSLs cover both sports?

 

[KellysHeroes]

so did people that have PSLs get 1st crack at SB tickets? Kind of defeats the purpose.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Add Vikings to the list http://business.time.com/2013/10/06/#######g-ridiculous-nfl-stadium-seat-fees-cost-thousands-but-fans-pay-up/

And I gotta agree with this http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1147108-why-personal-seat-licenses-are-killing-football-for-the-average-nfl-fan#articles/1147108-why-personal-seat-licenses-are-killing-football-for-the-average-nfl-fan

Pretty much no avg Joe can be a season Ticket holder, as it has become the most popular game it has become by far the most expensive

 

[The Noid]

so did people that have PSLs get 1st crack at SB tickets? Kind of defeats the purpose.

Sort of. For the Eagles, it works like this:

• I have 2 SBLs (in total, there are about 30,000 SBLs)
• Eagles make the Superbowl and get 12,000 tickets for season ticket holders and designate 10,000 for SBL holders
• Eagles have a lottery for 5,000 pairs of tickets and each SBL is a lottery ticket
• I have a 1:6 chance of winning the right to purchase a pair of tickets

 

[Quez]

They had this in Tampa before the recession, but now they can't even fill the stadium.

 

[metoo]

I'm an Atlanta Falcons season ticket holder and they just sent a mailing stating they will sell PSLs when the new stadium is built. They didn't state a price. They also announced a new MLS team will play in the new stadium. I wonder if PSLs cover both sports?

I'm a Falcons season ticket holder as well and I can't see the PSLs being much.

 

[Buckna]

What a difference a couple of playoff trips and a strengthening economy have. I passed on some PSL's 4 years back that were $1500 a piece for the Texans. Asking price now is around $5K a piece and haven't really softened at all after one losing season.

Probably take a few years of losing seasons for asking prices to come down at all.