What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

How NYC Bodega Clerk Jose Alba's "Self Defense" Became Political Persecution ( 7/10/22 2:12 PST) (1 Viewer)

John123

Footballguy
Many of the shooting of blacks by white police officers suggest the outcome might have been different if the suspect had been white, like the recent incident of the black guy who was shot 60 times after being stopped for a broken taillight☹️

The Highland Park shooter was apprehended without incident (as were several other white mass shooters like Dylann Roof and Nikolas Cruz).  How many blacks and have shot and killed after a minor traffic offense (like an air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror)?


Link?  My understanding was this guy led the cops on a chase, shot at them out his window, and then tried to run away.  When they thought he was turning to shoot back at them they fired on him.  I don't see how that turns out differently if he had been white, and have not seen that suggestion anywhere. 

 

squistion

Footballguy
How come you don’t see whites getting shot by cops?   The news decides they are not newsworthy enough. Dumb decisions are colorblind.  


They are getting shot, but it is not disproportionate to the percent of white people in the population:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States

Racial patterns[edit]

Civilian characteristics[edit]

According to The Guardian's database, in 2016 the rate of fatal police shootings per million was 10.13 for Native Americans, 6.6 for black people, 3.23 for Hispanics; 2.9 for white people and 1.17 for Asians.[9] In absolute numbers, police kill more white people than any other race or ethnicity, however this must be understood in light of the fact that white people make up the largest proportion of the US population.[46] As a percentage of the U.S. population, black Americans were 2.5 times more likely than whites to be killed by the police in 2015.[46] A 2015 study found that unarmed black people were 3.49 times more likely to be shot by police than were unarmed white people.[47] Another study published in 2016 concluded that the mortality rate of legal interventions among black and Hispanic people was 2.8 and 1.7 times higher than that among white people. Another 2015 study concluded that black people were 2.8 times more likely to be killed by police than whites. They also concluded that black people were more likely to be unarmed than white people who were in turn more likely to be unarmed than Hispanic people shot by the police.[48][49] A 2018 study in the American Journal of Public Health found the mortality rate by police per 100,000 was 1.9 to 2.4 for black men, 0.8 to 1.2 for Hispanic men and 0.6 to 0.7 for white men.[50]

 

djmich

Footballguy
Many of the shooting of blacks by white police officers suggest the outcome might have been different if the suspect had been white, like the recent incident of the black guy who was shot 60 times after being stopped for a broken taillight. ☹️


Link?  My understanding was this guy led the cops on a chase, shot at them out his window, and then tried to run away.  When they thought he was turning to shoot back at them they fired on him.  


The difference in these descriptions right here is why nobody believes anything presented to them any longer.

 

jon_mx

Footballguy
Reason 4,453,293,292 why liberals can not be trusted with power. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

squistion

Footballguy
Link?  My understanding was this guy led the cops on a chase, shot at them out his window, and then tried to run away.  When they thought he was turning to shoot back at them they fired on him.  I don't see how that turns out differently if he had been white, and have not seen that suggestion anywhere. 


https://www.vox.com/2022/7/7/23197430/jayland-walker-police-shooting-akron-ohio-footage

It was a routine traffic stop for a broken taillight. Yes, he led them on a chase (where officers claim they saw a muzzle flash, but that has not been conclusively confirmed by the videos). He then excited the car, was running away and then turned to face them (maybe he was surrendering, but he wasn't really given the opportunity to do so). He was unarmed and shooting him 60 times under the circumstances seems a use of excessive force IMO.

 

John123

Footballguy
https://www.vox.com/2022/7/7/23197430/jayland-walker-police-shooting-akron-ohio-footage

It was a routine traffic stop for a broken taillight. Yes, he led them on a chase (where officers claim they saw a muzzle flash, but that has not been conclusively confirmed by the videos). He then excited the car, was running away and then turned to face them (maybe he was surrendering, but he wasn't really given the opportunity to do so). He was unarmed and shooting him 60 times under the circumstances seems a use of excessive force IMO.


Unlike you, I won't attack your biased, progressive source.  I will simply say that nothing in that article addresses your assertion that I took issue with - that this incident would have turned out differently had the victim been white.  You made that up, and your "evidence" doesn't support your made up assertion.  I award you 5 Timochios in my fact check.

 

massraider

Footballguy
Unlike you, I won't attack your biased, progressive source.  I will simply say that nothing in that article addresses your assertion that I took issue with - that this incident would have turned out differently had the victim been white.  You made that up, and your "evidence" doesn't support your made up assertion.  I award you 5 Timochios in my fact check.
No evidence he fired a gun at them. You should stop making stuff up all the time, it's tough to wade through alternative facts. 

 

John123

Footballguy
No evidence he fired a gun at them. You should stop making stuff up all the time, it's tough to wade through alternative facts. 


There is absolutely evidence of it.  it's even discussed in Squis' biased link.   But again, that wasn't the point of my objection to Squis' post.  He asserted that the outcome of this incident would have been different if the victim was white, but has presented zero evidence that is true.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

massraider

Footballguy
There is absolutely evidence of it.  it's even discussed in Squis' biased link.   But again, that wasn't the point of my objection to Squis' post.  He asserted that the outcome of this incident would have been different if the victim was white, but has presented zero evidence that is true.
Squisiton thinks the outcome would have been different.

The police think they saw a muzzle flash. 

My god, they're both evidence

 

John123

Footballguy
Squisiton thinks the outcome would have been different.

The police think they saw a muzzle flash. 

My god, they're both evidence


You equate what Squis thinks, from what he read on Twitter, to the testimony of the people who were actually there?  You consider what Squis posts on a FF message board as "evidence?" 

😂

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
What narrative? There was a lot of publicity on the Waukesha parade shooter, but no, his race wasn't mentioned because it seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the crime.


Darrell Brooks was not a mass shooter. What happened on November 21, 2021 was not an active shooter scenario.

Do you insist upon pushing your lies here? So it's not enough to fill my thread topics with personal attacks and source policing and sealioning, do you actually need to just fabricate whatever you want to fulfill your tribalism?

DO NOT PUSH YOUR LIES IN THREAD TOPICS THAT I START HERE IN THE PSF.

 

squistion

Footballguy
Darrell Brooks was not a mass shooter. What happened on November 21, 2021 was not an active shooter scenario.

Do you insist upon pushing your lies here? So it's not enough to fill my thread topics with personal attacks and source policing and sealioning, do you actually need to just fabricate whatever you want to fulfill your tribalism?

DO NOT PUSH YOUR LIES IN THREAD TOPICS THAT I START HERE IN THE PSF.


I had my parades mixed up. My bad. 

 

massraider

Footballguy
You equate what Squis thinks, from what he read on Twitter, to the testimony of the people who were actually there?  You consider what Squis posts on a FF message board as "evidence?" 

😂
None of these police has entered testimony. 

And yes, after police pump 60 rounds into a guy running away, I'm probably going to wait and see if there actually was a gun fired, or if maybe these guys are playing a little game of CYA

 

massraider

Footballguy
Payton Gendron: murders 10—calmly arrested

Nikolas Cruz: murders 17—calmly arrested 

Dylan Roof: murders 9—calmly arrested

Patrick Crusius: murders 23—calmly arrested

Walker: UNARMED—shot 90X😓 https://t.co/zUDRPb7P0u

Shot at 90 times as he ran away. 

Yeah, that would have happened to a white guy. Copy that

 

parasaurolophus

Footballguy
Link?  My understanding was this guy led the cops on a chase, shot at them out his window, and then tried to run away.  When they thought he was turning to shoot back at them they fired on him.  I don't see how that turns out differently if he had been white, and have not seen that suggestion anywhere. 
18 minute car chase. Nothing was routine. 

 

John123

Footballguy
None of these police has entered testimony. 

And yes, after police pump 60 rounds into a guy running away, I'm probably going to wait and see if there actually was a gun fired, or if maybe these guys are playing a little game of CYA


The officers filed a report.  In many, if not most, jurisdictions those reports are filed under penalty of perjury.  It's a bit more credible, and evidentiary, than a random guy on an internet message board.

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
It does seems to be a case of self defense, however the video clip released may be incomplete and may not tell the whole story.

In any event, I don't see how this can be classified as "political persecution" 




Direct Headline: NYC bodega group pitches ‘Stand Your Ground’ law after fatal stabbing

A New York City bodega group says the Big Apple should adopt a local version of Florida’s controversial “Stand Your Ground” law after a Manhattan store worker was charged with murder for defending himself....United Bodegas of America — which has rallied behind Jose Alba, the 61-year-old shop employee facing a slay rap after fending off a violent ex-con — said Sunday that the measure is needed to protect others who toil behind the counter....“Bottom line — in Florida, this is what you would consider stand your ground,” UBA spokesman Fernando Mateo said at a press conference, referring to Alba’s case....“That’s what New York City needs,” Mateo said of the law....

....Florida allows people to use deadly force if they believe they are threatened by “great bodily harm.” New York does not have a “Stand Your Ground” statute but does allow for self-defense claims when protecting one’s home....Mateo said a more expansive statute in New York, similar to Florida’s, would have provided Alba with legal grounds for stabbing and mortally wounding 35-year-old Austin Simon when he stormed behind the counter July 1 and accosted Alba....

....Alba was charged with murder and held on $500,000 bail till Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg’s office negotiated a reduced amount that allowed him to secure a $5,000 bond....The fact that Alba was even charged in the incident drew widespread outcry. Mateo said Alba is hardly the only bodega worker put in harm’s way in the city.....“Bodega owners, clerks, their employees are going through very similar situations as what happened to Mr. Alba [in terms of threats], and it doesn’t make the news,” he said. “But you know what? [Their assailants] are not prosecuted. Given a desk appearance ticket, if that, and they continue to terrorize small businesses all over the city every single day....”

Debbie Almontaser, co-founder of the Yemeni American Merchants Association, said her group has long been fighting for safety and security measures for retail workers.....Almontaser said she has asked City Hall in the past for a $2.5 million package to install state-of-the-art cameras in all bodegas as part of an anti-violence-prevention program....“It is important because every bodega owner and clerk across the city is living on edge because of the high rise in crime in our city,” she said. “We just lived through a pandemic where all of these clerks and bodega owners were frontline workers, essential workers....And today all of these lifeline businesses are feeling a sense of betrayal and a sense of not belonging to those communities because of the rise in crime.....”

By Kyle Schnitzer and Jorge Fitz-Gibbon July 10, 2022 4:20pm

https://nypost.com/2022/07/10/nyc-bodega-group-pitches-stand-your-ground-law-after-fatal-stabbing/

**********

Of course this is political persecution. Now Hochul and Bragg have really stirred up the hornet's nest. The Hamilton Heights Bodega Association doesn't have the money and experience and media contacts to fight something like this. So they went to the NRA. Which is why they are now pushing for "Stand Your Ground" laws.

Since only Hochul can replace Bragg, there are no other mechanisms to do it, she is being dragged into this as well as being anti-small business, anti-minority and anti-working class.

Bragg's idiotic policies have now triggered legitimate political activism that won't end. Democrats lower down the ticket in these districts are furious. Small dollar donations are already down across the board for all current political groups. It's stories like this that go national and then go out of control that chokes out a Party financially.

This is a 61 year old man with no criminal record.

The legal story may unfold but the story in the Court Of Public Opinion has already burned both Hochul and Bragg.

You don't see how this becomes political persecution but you can magically decide Waukesha was a mass shooting tragedy when Darrell Brooks had no gun and never fired a shot.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

kodycutter

Footballguy
This country is spiraling into the abyss.  These Liberal DA’s are insane.
The gal pal of the ex-con killed while attacking Manhattan bodega worker Jose Alba was not charged with stabbing the clerk during the melee because prosecutors felt she was just defending her beau, police sources told The Post on Monday.

“I don’t understand why the [district attorney] hasn’t charged her,” Francisco Marte of the Bodega and Small Business Association Group.

“She participated in that,” Marte said of the incident. “She’s supposed to be in jail and the $250,000 bail [Alba once faced] should be on her, not on him. He was just defending himself.”

But police sources said prosecutors refused to charge the woman because they felt she was justified because she was helping her boyfriend as he was being slashed.

But defense lawyer and former Bronx prosecutor Michael Discioarro said he’s in the Alba camp on this one.

“I have no idea why she’s not charged,” Discioarro said. “Her boyfriend was the aggressor. She does not get to protect the aggressor.

link

 

squistion

Footballguy
Of course this is political persecution. Now Hochul and Bragg have really stirred up the hornet's nest. The Hamilton Heights Bodega Association doesn't have the money and experience and media contacts to fight something like this. So they went to the NRA. Which is why they are now pushing for "Stand Your Ground" laws.


If so, then the NYPD is in on this political persecution, as they determined and presented this as a murder case to the DA.

 

squistion

Footballguy
According to the liberal DA. 


No, unless this was falsely misrepresented by the DA and we have not heard from the NYPD that they did not present this to him as a murder case.

I still think there is a lot we still don't know about this incident and there may more video footage that we haven't seen. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Summer Wheat

Footballguy
No, unless this was falsely misrepresented by the DA and we have not heard from the NYPD that they did not present this to him as a murder case.

I still think there is a lot we still don't know about this incident and there may more video footage that we haven't seen. 


Did you see the footage of the woman trying to stab Jose with a knife?   No charges for her as of yet.

 

squistion

Footballguy
Did you see the footage of the woman trying to stab Jose with a knife?   No charges for her as of yet.


I just saw the one, perhaps incomplete video, and it wasn't that clear to me that was what she was trying to do - but I wasn't really focusing on her and all I really remember is her waving some cash at the clerk trying to diffuse the situation. 

 

John123

Footballguy
Has a reason for this been given?


Yes.  They say she was trying to protect her BF.  Except from what I've heard you can't use self defense when protecting the person who started the altercation.  So, while a reason has been given it doesn't pass legal muster unless I don't understand the law correctly.  And IANAL.

 

Boston

Footballguy
Yes.  They say she was trying to protect her BF.  Except from what I've heard you can't use self defense when protecting the person who started the altercation.  So, while a reason has been given it doesn't pass legal muster unless I don't understand the law correctly.  And IANAL.


The charges in this case don't seem to make sense...I really hope there is something we are missing instead of another whack-job DA winging it.

 

Courtjester

The Town Drunk
Did you see the footage of the woman trying to stab Jose with a knife?   No charges for her as of yet.
And she was the one who was the root cause of this whole thing. As I understand the facts, her card gets denied. The store owner grabbed the product back that she was attempting to buy.. She then says I am going to go my (insert bad word) and then comes back with her boyfriend, who attacks the shop owner. The shop owner defends himself from not one but two attackers and ends up getting charged.  It now becomes an issue of reasonable force. 

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Direct Headline/IMAGES/VIDEO: Chilling new video shows how NYC bodega worker Jose Alba was apparently stabbed

Shocking new video obtained by The Post shows the harrowing moment Manhattan bodega worker Jose Alba was apparently stabbed while fending off and fatally slashing a violent ex-con who attacked him. In the chilling footage, Alba, 61, battles back and slashes career criminal Austin Simon inside the Manhattan bodega July 1 — as the former convict’s girlfriend appears to pull a knife from her purse and stab the worker....

The footage provides a new view of the bloody exchange. Simon’s unidentified girlfriend has not been charged in the case....Alba is seen repeatedly stabbing Simon and, after a few moments, the woman who has been identified as Simon’s girlfriend appears to take a knife from her purse and stab the worker...Police sources said Alba was stabbed during the assault but that the girlfriend denied to cops that she knifed him...The bodega clerk’s lawyer said during his arraignment last week that Simon’s girlfriend stabbed the worker three times in the shoulder and hand....

By Steven Vago and Jorge Fitz-Gibbon July 10, 2022 7:14pm

https://nypost.com/2022/07/10/video-shows-how-nyc-bodega-worker-jose-alba-may-have-been-stabbed/

Direct Headline: New Video Shows Girlfriend Stab NYC Bodega Worker After Confrontation Turned Deadly

...."The Alba family does not have the money for a defense attorney, and it’s a waste of taxpayer dollars to pursue murder charges against a hard working man with no known criminal record. We are hopeful that DA Braggs will listen and understand UBA’s plea to drop all charges,” said Fernando Mateo, spokesperson for UBA....

“Since taking office, D.A. Bragg has met with numerous business owners, community leaders, and other stakeholders about public safety," Bragg's spokesperson, Doug Cohen, said in a statement. "Today’s conversation centered on how to keep bodega owners and workers safe, including in a post-Bruen world when more people may legally obtain and carry firearms. D.A. Bragg expressed support for New York’s strong gun laws, and emphasized that more guns in our communities make us less safe. We welcomed the opportunity to discuss how we can work together to promote safety on our streets and in our workplaces, and look forward to continuing these conversations....”

The case has garnered international headlines. Those who knew the store employee said they believe that Alba was simply defending himself.

"To me, I know him personally, he lives in my building. He's the kindest man I ever met, if he says it's self-defense, it is, to me," said Chris Sanchez, who said he's known Alba most of his life. "I would've done the same thing...."

By Jessica Cunnington • Published July 12, 2022 • Updated on July 12, 2022 at 12:19 pm

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-video-shows-girlfriend-stab-nyc-bodega-worker-after-confrontation-turned-deadly/3769959/?amp

*******

Bragg's spox, Doug Cohen, is an idiot.

In the Court Of Public Opinion, this looks like tyranny against the embattled working class. It's also a signature 'red ball' on how New York and other Big Blue Cities abandoned civil order and left hard working tax payers out to get slaughtered.

This is why the Democratic Party cannot attract and retain any competent Coms/Media talent. Basic Media Optics 101 - You can't keep telling the masses something different than what they are seeing with their own two eyes.

Instead Cohen makes this about Bruen and gun laws/gun regulation. All he's really doing is reinforcing to every New Yorker that they are completely on their own, to go get a gun, even an illegal one, and if they have to shoot someone who is attacking them, to not contact law enforcement at all.

That's exactly what's going to happen here. Criminals are going to start getting gunned down in the street ambushes and no one will ever call the cops again. What's the point?

This also dovetails into the problem that when a formal social need is abandoned by the government, some ad hoc informal system emerges. That means Hochul and Bragg have essentially created a new market share for organized crime in New York, to act as proxies for what used to amount to basic civil order.

Then there will be the enraged elements of NYPD that will predictably turn into informal enforcers themselves.

Here's the quiet part out loud, the question becomes if Alba would have been better off, under the current conditions, to take the abuse, wait, then pay some other criminal element to "handle" Simon later. That's the question every last one of those bodega owners are asking themselves right now in private and with each other.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
"Austin Simon has eight known arrests on charges including assault, domestic assault, and robbery. He was on parole after being jailed for attacking a cop. Simon was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead."

🙄

 Free Mr. Alba.  Waste of time and money as No jury would convict.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sand

Footballguy
The charges in this case don't seem to make sense...I really hope there is something we are missing instead of another whack-job DA winging it.
We have a landed owner killing a member of a protected class.  I don't think the calculus goes beyond that.

Da Guru said:
Waste of time and money as No jury would convict.
Ultimately this is correct - I don't see this being a conviction anywhere in this country.  

 

Boston

Footballguy
We have a landed owner killing a member of a protected class.  I don't think the calculus goes beyond that.

Ultimately this is correct - I don't see this being a conviction anywhere in this country.  


I agree...was just hoping it would not be so blatant...looks like a case of woke bullyism.

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
It does seems to be a case of self defense, however the video clip released may be incomplete and may not tell the whole story. In any event, I don't see how this can be classified as "political persecution" 


VIDEO: Murder charges dropped against NYC bodega worker Jul 19, 2022

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg dropped the charges against Harlem bodega worker Jose Alba.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD2bZ9UUSQQ

******

Of course it was political persecution.

DA Alvin Bragg just dropped all charges. He had no choice politically, it was eating him alive in the nationally daily media cycle.

So what's the pathway here?

Either Bragg thought Alba was guilty and then let him off the hook because the political cost to prosecute this was too high

Or Bragg though Alba wasn't guilty but wanted to make a political point against SCOTUS recent ruling over guns and self defense and Alba was collateral damage to that end.

The choices are inept or wholly corrupt. The answer is likely that Bragg is both.

Nothing changes the fact that

1) Alba spent a week in Rikers. For what exactly other than political persecution?

2) If there wasn't video evidence, it's very easy to see how Alba or anyone else could have been railroaded here. That should terrify all Americans.

3) DA Bragg wanted a certain kind of publicity, miscalculated, and risked a possible riot over this entire fabricated mess. How many other small businesses needed to be looted and burned and destroyed so Bragg and Hochul can get their talking points out in front of a camera?

4) All high profile politicians and their ilk get death threats. All Bragg achieved was smearing his own career, risking all New Yorkers especially small business owners and created a ground swell of death threats against his own family.  What an idiot.

5) The entire maneuver backfired. If there was ever a public test case on why the average citizen should go buy a gun, this is it. Because clearly Hochul, Adams and Bragg will leave you out and abandon you so you can get slaughtered on the Altar of Woke.

What's worse than outright dirty political persecution? Failed inept attempts at political persecution.  If Bragg wants to roll in the trash and grime and corruption, then at least make some attempt to be good as his actual agenda.

 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Direct Headline: GoFundMe allows page for Minneapolis gunman Andrew Sundberg after axing one for NYC bodega clerk Jose Alba

GoFundMe is allowing a small fortune to be collected for kin of the Minneapolis gunman fatally shot by cops after he fired at neighbors, while hard-working Manhattan bodega clerk Jose Alba’s fund got the ax, critics rage.....The fund-raiser for the family of dead Minnesota shooter Andrew “Tekle’’ Sundberg, 20, surpassed its goal of $20,000 within three days, hitting $20,500 by Monday afternoon....Yet the GoFundMe page for Alba — who killed an ex-con attacker in apparent self-defense at the store — got pulled a day after his case came to light.

“#GoFundMe should be ASHAMED of themselves!” a fuming critic tweeted Monday. “#JoseAlba defended himself. #TekleSundberg was shooting into a home at a mother and two young children. SHAME ON YOU!”....Sundberg allegedly fired like a madman Wednesday in his building, including through the wall of an apartment of a mom cooking for her two kids, before being shot dead by cops during a standoff....police snipers finally shot him dead after six hours of negotiations, but the head of the Minneapolis police union said in a statement last week that “to prevent death or great bodily harm to another, officers used deadly force.”

When Black Lives Matter protesters showed up at the young man’s building over the weekend to decry the cops, the fired-upon mom, who is black, white and of Native American descent, furiously shouted at them.....“This is not a George Floyd situation!’’ the mother, Arabella Foss-Yarbrough, yelled. “George Floyd was unarmed! This is not OK!...He tried to kill me in front of my kids!”

By Kate Sheehy July 18, 2022 5:39pm

https://nypost.com/2022/07/18/gofundme-allows-page-for-minneapolis-gunman-after-axing-one-for-nyc-bodega-clerk-jose-alba/

Direct Headline: U.S. lawmakers threaten to probe GoFundMe after trucker fundraiser shutdown

 U.S. lawmakers are threatening to investigate GoFundMe after it shut down fundraising for the Freedom Convoy, which they hope will expand south of the border....“The efforts of government officials to suppress peaceful protest … is an abuse of power,” Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) told POLITICO on Tuesday. “That abuse of power was compounded when GoFundMe at the explicit behest of the Canadian government tried to effectively steal $10 million that had been raised to support the Canadian truckers...”

By Kelly Hooper 02/09/2022 01:13 PM EST

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/08/canada-freedom-convoy-fundraiser-republicans-00007007

********

GoFundMe did their part to join in on the persecution of Jose Alba.

Some will try to cite GFM's TOS, but who are we kidding, they keep targeting anything that supports a Conservative viewpoint.

Team Blue keeps waging war on the working class.

Think about what it says when GFM acts in a manner where you are better off as a unhinged psychopath who randomly opens fire, nearly killing a minority mother and her two kids, than to be an honest hard working taxpayer defending themselves from a career criminal released again and again to hunt down innocents.

Jose Alba got tossed into Rikers to send a message to Conservatives. If you refuse to bend the knee and leave yourselves exposed as prey, we will punish you until you do.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top