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How the 2004 Cowboys/Bills Draft Trade Turned Out (1 Viewer)

cstu

cstu

Footballguy
Just thought I'd revisit a trade which probably has Bills fans :hot: right now, but one that Cowboys fans are very happy with.

Dallas traded its first-round pick (No. 22) to Buffalo for the Bills' second- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 43 and 144) and 2005 first-round pick (Marcus Spears). Buffalo selected Tulane QB J.P. Losman with the No. 22 pick. Dallas selected Notre Dame RB Julius Jones with the No. 43 pick and Boston College TE Sean Ryan with the No. 144 pick.

On top of that, the Cowboys ended up signing Bledsoe when the Bills released him after they decided to go with Losman.

What the teams ended up getting out of it:

Cowboys

Julius Jones

Sean Ryan

Marcus Spears

Drew Bledsoe

Bills

J.P. Losman

 
Dallas got good value out of their selections, but I don't recall seeing the Cowboys in the playoffs last year, even with Drew Bledsoe.

 
Whatever happened to not judging QBs until they'd been... you know... starting for a couple of years?

That John Elway kid got benched halfway through his rookie season for general suckitude (sub-50% completion rate, 2:1 INT to TD ratio). How'd that wind up working out, by the way?

 
Whatever happened to not judging QBs until they'd been... you know... starting for a couple of years?

That John Elway kid got benched halfway through his rookie season for general suckitude (sub-50% completion rate, 2:1 INT to TD ratio). How'd that wind up working out, by the way?
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This board loves to stamp "FAILURE" on a lot of players. Just guys they don't want to succeed. Losman got 1/2 a year and did pretty good towards the end but it doesn't matter. He had a first season comparable to Eli Manning, but that doesn't matter either. :thumbdown:
 
Is this to highlight why Buffalo sacked their front office staff after last year and Dallas is the NFC team with the best Vegas odds of winning the next Superbowl?

 
While it's still early in the Losman era the early returns are not very encouraging. Can't label him a bust yet but there's no question the jury is definetly out. This is a very big year for him and he needs to prove he's a QB that the Bills franchise can build their offense around.

I didn't understand this deal when it was made and I still don't. Giving away a future #1 is always risky. Doing it for a player that had plenty of questions made it even riskier than usual. Tom Donohoe is one of the more overrated front office figures I've seen in a long time and his tenure in Buffalo did nothing but put this franchise in neutral.

 
Taking advantage of the Bills is akin to deceiving the blind. You might make out, but it's nothing to be proud of.

 
Well, since Bledsoe wasn't part of the deal, you can't include him. I know fans like to look at things like that and include them, but you just can't. But as an aside, I noticed that Cowboys fans suddenly stopped crowing about how great Bledsoe was towards the end of the season. Could his 10 INTs, 6 fumbles, and 26 sacks in the last 6 games have something to do with that? In his last 6 games he had a lower TD/INT rate than Losman, and took more sacks per game. If you take Bledsoe's last 8 games his QB rating over those 8 games was 69.4. Losman's for his 8 starts was 64.9. Not a huge difference when comparing a guy starting in his first 8 games versus a 14 year veteran.

Julius Jones-2 seasons, 21 games played, 4.0 ypc, 1812 rushing, 12 TDs. Not bad, but it looks like it's very possible that he'll lose his starting job.

Marcus Spears-2 seasons, 16 games played, 31 total tackles, 1.5 sacks. I know the kid has talent, but his statistics really are not impressive so far at all.

Sean Ryan-2 seasons, 2 games played in, zero catches, 1 tackle on special teams.

JP Losman-2 seasons, 8 games started, 1372 passing yards, 8 TDs, 9 INTS, 63.5 rating. Not that impressive, but not out of line for a QBs first 8 starts either.

Julius Jones makes the trade in favor of the Cowboys so far but I still think it's ridiculous to measure this trade at this point. After this season I think that the verdict can finally be rendered though. This is the make or break season for Losman. If he is not the starter or fails as the starter it's safe to say the the Bills got owned on this trade.

 
Some people are so down on J.P. Losman, give him two/three years. If the Bills decide to play Holcomb instead of Losman they are selling the future for a little short term gain.

I know he looked bad last year at times but he was a ROOKIE.

 
Watch out Dallas fans, you'll be calling for Bledsoe's head by week 8 or sooner.

Drew's problems have always been mental not physical. He has all the tools to succeed. When he came to Buffalo he started like gangbusters his first season, then had a drop off toward the end. By the second season he was a deer in headlights and on his way out the door.

I didn't realize he experienced the same drop off at the end of season #1 in Dallas. Add a demanding coach and a headcase WR to the mix = trouble.

 
Is this to highlight why Buffalo sacked their front office staff after last year and Dallas is the NFC team with the best Vegas odds of winning the next Superbowl?
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Dallas being the NFC favorite has a lot more to do with Vegas being aware that there will be plenty of Dallas homers willing to part with their paychecks than their respective NFC counterparts.
 
Whatever happened to not judging QBs until they'd been... you know... starting for a couple of years?

That John Elway kid got benched halfway through his rookie season for general suckitude (sub-50% completion rate, 2:1 INT to TD ratio). How'd that wind up working out, by the way?
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True, I'm not that down on Losman and think he can still turn it around. I did find it funny that the Bills gave up so much for Losman and ending up giving the Cowboys the better QB, at least for now.
 
Well, since Bledsoe wasn't part of the deal, you can't include him. I know fans like to look at things like that and include them, but you just can't.
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Instead of looking at a trade as having two sides, we ought to look at it as having four. Or really, two sets of two. Dallas doesn't care about Buffalo. Dallas cares about DallasWithTrade vs. DallasWithoutTrade and likewise Buffalo cares about BuffaloWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithoutTrade. DallasWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithTrade isn't a particularly meaningful comparison.With that in mind, I think it makes sense to include Bledsoe on the Buffalo side of the equation, but not on the Dallas side. Dallas was going to sign some cheap QB last year anyway. If it wasn't Bledsoe, it would have been someone else, and that someone else would have been someone essentially equivalent to Bledsoe. So I don't see counting Bledsoe in the plus column on the Dallas side unless you also want to count, say, Brad Johnson in the minus column. From Dallas' standpoint, the trade was something like: Spears, Julius, and Ryan for Steven Jackson maybe (only Parcells and Jones know for sure).From Buffalo's standpoint, it was Losman for Bledsoe and whoever they would have drafted in the Spears, Jones, and Ryan slots. Maybe Spears, probably not Jones, and who cares about Ryan.At this point, it definitely looks bad for Buffalo. For Dallas it looks pretty good although it's not clear how good. If they had Rashaun Woods all queued up when the phone rang, it's a fantastic trade. If it was Steven Jackson or someone else, then it's not quite as good.
 
Well, since Bledsoe wasn't part of the deal, you can't include him. I know fans like to look at things like that and include them, but you just can't.
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Instead of looking at a trade as having two sides, we ought to look at it as having four. Or really, two sets of two. Dallas doesn't care about Buffalo. Dallas cares about DallasWithTrade vs. DallasWithoutTrade and likewise Buffalo cares about BuffaloWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithoutTrade. DallasWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithTrade isn't a particularly meaningful comparison.

With that in mind, I think it makes sense to include Bledsoe on the Buffalo side of the equation, but not on the Dallas side. Dallas was going to sign some cheap QB last year anyway. If it wasn't Bledsoe, it would have been someone else, and that someone else would have been someone essentially equivalent to Bledsoe. So I don't see counting Bledsoe in the plus column on the Dallas side unless you also want to count, say, Brad Johnson in the minus column.

From Dallas' standpoint, the trade was something like: Spears, Julius, and Ryan for Steven Jackson maybe (only Parcells and Jones know for sure).

From Buffalo's standpoint, it was Losman for Bledsoe and whoever they would have drafted in the Spears, Jones, and Ryan slots. Maybe Spears, probably not Jones, and who cares about Ryan.

At this point, it definitely looks bad for Buffalo. For Dallas it looks pretty good although it's not clear how good. If they had Rashaun Woods all queued up when the phone rang, it's a fantastic trade. If it was Steven Jackson or someone else, then it's not quite as good.
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You just can't do that though. First of all, Bledsoe wasn't even cut until a year later. So adding him or subtracting him from one side or the other is ridiculous. The Bills may or may not have cut Bledsoe regardless of the trade. And if you're going to count cutting Bledsoe against the Bills, then why don't we add in the Bills being able to lock up Aaron Schobel longterm with the money they saved by cutting Bledsoe? Suddenly you add in a DE with 54 tackles, 12 sacks and an INT and the Bills are killing the Cowboys on the trade. Or how about the Bills being able to lockup Terrence McGee longterm with some of the money saved? 59 tackles, 4 INTs, an INT returned for a TD and one of the best kick returners in the game added onto the Bills tally.
 
Well, since Bledsoe wasn't part of the deal, you can't include him. I know fans like to look at things like that and include them, but you just can't.
Click to expand...
Instead of looking at a trade as having two sides, we ought to look at it as having four. Or really, two sets of two. Dallas doesn't care about Buffalo. Dallas cares about DallasWithTrade vs. DallasWithoutTrade and likewise Buffalo cares about BuffaloWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithoutTrade. DallasWithTrade vs. BuffaloWithTrade isn't a particularly meaningful comparison.

With that in mind, I think it makes sense to include Bledsoe on the Buffalo side of the equation, but not on the Dallas side. Dallas was going to sign some cheap QB last year anyway. If it wasn't Bledsoe, it would have been someone else, and that someone else would have been someone essentially equivalent to Bledsoe. So I don't see counting Bledsoe in the plus column on the Dallas side unless you also want to count, say, Brad Johnson in the minus column.

From Dallas' standpoint, the trade was something like: Spears, Julius, and Ryan for Steven Jackson maybe (only Parcells and Jones know for sure).

From Buffalo's standpoint, it was Losman for Bledsoe and whoever they would have drafted in the Spears, Jones, and Ryan slots. Maybe Spears, probably not Jones, and who cares about Ryan.

At this point, it definitely looks bad for Buffalo. For Dallas it looks pretty good although it's not clear how good. If they had Rashaun Woods all queued up when the phone rang, it's a fantastic trade. If it was Steven Jackson or someone else, then it's not quite as good.
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To be fair to the Bills, they had Bledsoe under a very expensive contract. Of course that was a deal that they made so they have no one to blame but themselves. Trading for Losman wasn't a bad idea, but they think they made a mistake not keeping Bledsoe another year to let Losman develop. Bledsoe didn't get enough credit in 2004 for almost getting the Bills to the playoffs. The Bills started out 0-4, but Bledsoe was actually ok in those games and it was the running game that was non-existent thanks to Travis Henry. Once McGahee became the starter things turned around and the Bills went 9-3 the rest of the season. Bledsoe had two horrible games @Ravens and @Patriots throwing 0 TD and 7 INT, but besides those games he threw 16 TD and 6 INT the last 12 games. The Bills could have kept Bledsoe and built on that in 2005 and had a good shot at winning the division in a down year for the Patriots.

 
Bledsoe didn't get enough credit in 2004 for almost getting the Bills to the playoffs. Bledsoe had two horrible games @Ravens and @Patriots throwing 0 TD and 7 INT, but besides those games he threw 16 TD and 6 INT the last 12 games.
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Bledsoe's dreadful performance AT HOME in week 17 against the Steelers backups is what cost the Bills a playoff spot and him his job. The Bills were not going to win anything with him at QB.Personally, I wanted the Bills to draft Matt Schaub and let him learn behind Bledsoe for a year or two. Would have been much cheaper than the deal they made for Losman. But, they wanted a mobile guy. Still too early to judge Losman though.
 
cstu said:
Just thought I'd revisit a trade which probably has Bills fans :goodposting: right now, but one that Cowboys fans are very happy with.Dallas traded its first-round pick (No. 22) to Buffalo for the Bills' second- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 43 and 144) and 2005 first-round pick (Marcus Spears). Buffalo selected Tulane QB J.P. Losman with the No. 22 pick. Dallas selected Notre Dame RB Julius Jones with the No. 43 pick and Boston College TE Sean Ryan with the No. 144 pick.On top of that, the Cowboys ended up signing Bledsoe when the Bills released him after they decided to go with Losman. What the teams ended up getting out of it:CowboysJulius JonesSean RyanMarcus SpearsDrew BledsoeBillsJ.P. Losman
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Wonder how that trade looks now?
 
A slam dunk in favor of Buffalo, IMO. By the end of 2007 Dallas would be willing to throw all of those players in on a trade for Losman, and up the anti with Romo. And Buffalo would decline.

But heh, all you Dallas fans got a good laugh in on Buffalo, didn't ya?

:banned:

 
alg said:
A slam dunk in favor of Buffalo, IMO. By the end of 2007 Dallas would be willing to throw all of those players in on a trade for Losman, and up the anti with Romo. And Buffalo would decline.But heh, all you Dallas fans got a good laugh in on Buffalo, didn't ya? :suds:
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:ptts: Dallas rocked that trade. J.P. can play on my opponent's team any time.Add in that there is a good chance that Dallas might have taken Spears over Ware (Parcells wanted Spears badly but waited because Ware was rising on the draft board) if they had not had the extra pick and it becomes an even better trade for Dallas.
 
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I dont think Losmans getting enough credit. I think hes coming along pretty well, and had a pretty solid year down the stretch. I think the Losman to Evans connection is just getting started

 
I agree LBH. Seems like some guys lock on to players with the 'suck' lable and don't actually pay attention. Reminds me of the talking heads who parrot everyone else's stuff. There is one guy on TV who's opinion I respect on QBs - Jaws. Ask him about Losman.

One of these days people are gonna get a huge wake up call when they realize that Losman is actually the best QB to come out of that draft. Crazy? After the bye last year he was already performing at the head of the pack, and finished with a highly respectable rating. Better then some or all of that class's QBs who's jock people are always swing off of.

OK, I'm a homer, but I really believe what I just wrote. I think when everything comes out of the wash he will be tops. There is not a QB in the bunch that I would personnaly rather have on the Bills.

 
And if the Cowboys would have kept the pick, taken Jackson like they should have, they probably would have won a playoff game and not had to waste a pick on Barber.

Who's the genius now?

 
alg said:
I agree LBH. Seems like some guys lock on to players with the 'suck' lable and don't actually pay attention. Reminds me of the talking heads who parrot everyone else's stuff. There is one guy on TV who's opinion I respect on QBs - Jaws. Ask him about Losman.One of these days people are gonna get a huge wake up call when they realize that Losman is actually the best QB to come out of that draft. Crazy? After the bye last year he was already performing at the head of the pack, and finished with a highly respectable rating. Better then some or all of that class's QBs who's jock people are always swing off of.OK, I'm a homer, but I really believe what I just wrote. I think when everything comes out of the wash he will be tops. There is not a QB in the bunch that I would personnaly rather have on the Bills.
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I dont think Id go so far as to say hes the best of that class but I do think hes underated, and getting better. The Bills added a couple of guys on the OL and Evans is just entering his prime. If the Bills can add a decent 2nd wr and draft or trade for a solid RB, I think this offense has some potential
 
Giggity said:
And if the Cowboys would have kept the pick, taken Jackson like they should have, they probably would have won a playoff game and not had to waste a pick on Barber. Who's the genius now?
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I think I saw some draft analyst say on tv recently that Kevin Jones was actually the top guy on the Dallas draft board at RB. I cant remember if he was there when they picked though
 
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To be fair to BUF I don't think we can judge this trade just yet. Losman is still very early in his career and BUF has not exactly surrounded him with a great cast. Spears looks like he will turn out to be productive but it's just too early. As a DAL fan I do like the trade right now but that could change as the years go on. Certainly DAL has the numbers in their favor right now, in terms of players from this trade.

 
Little Big Head said:
Giggity said:
And if the Cowboys would have kept the pick, taken Jackson like they should have, they probably would have won a playoff game and not had to waste a pick on Barber. Who's the genius now?
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I think I saw some draft analyst say on tv recently that Kevin Jones was actually the top guy on the Dallas draft board at RB. I cant remember if he was there when they picked though
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Yes, KJ was pick #30. Losman #22. KJ (when healthy) wasn't that much worse than SJax. It's possible that KJ on Dallas would be better than SJax. Not that we'll ever know. We'll really never know how the trade worked out if you want to include all the players that would be different had the trade not happened. Buffalo might have drafted Bob Sanders in the 2nd (thus affecting their Whitner pick?) and Matt Schaub in the 3rd. Dallas may have drafted KJ, not signed Bledsoe, but drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Ware... just too many moving pieces to evaluate. (Butterfly Effect)In the end, I think we can say both teams are probably happy with the deal.
 
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