How to handle a lowball job offer? UPDATE: #122 (1 Viewer)

[Tom Skerritt]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

 

[[icon]]

Counter with what you feel is a reasonable range.... provide the numbers to back your position. They already feel you're a good fit for the role if they offered it right away. You're apparently performing the duties competently.

Is your current role in jeopardy if they decline?

Are you willing to continue doing your previous role while assuming the new one?

Example with made up numbers..... f current job is $30k and and you have been doing both for $45k... Instead of paying $40k for manager job and $30k for you.... can they give you $50k and eliminate the lower role with you doing both?

 

[Christo]

You're stewed, buttwad.

 

[msommer]

Establish your fall back position.

Will they hire someone else and drop you back in the old role (OT gone, right?). That's then your best alternative to a negotiated agreement (BATNA).

will they fire you? What probability do you assign to that outcome (I assume this is the worst outcome, nothing with wet graves in NJ and the like)?

Then think about your strategy for achieving your win. What are cardinal points? Where is there a possibility of compromise?

They have already anchored the negotiation at the low end. What's your counter, knowing that is the high anchor.

Then, when you have thought that through, follow ICON's advice above

 

[dickey moe]

Best thing you can do is offer the data that support your position and see if they respond with a better offer. If you're committed to obtaining an upper management position with your current company and they won't compensate you what you think you're worth, you're going to have to consider looking for such an opportunity elsewhere.

 

[johnnycakes]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

The bolded was par for the course at The Firm when I was there. Was not unusual for someone to turn down a promo to manager for exactly the reasons you describe. And even the people who accepted - which was most who were offered the promotion - all of them had to pause and think about it. But there wasn't much room for anyone to come back and bargain harder. It was pretty much a take it or leave it proposition.

 

[Dickies]

### for a raise?

 

[Cjw_55106]

Is it typical for it to take this long to fill a position? From an outsiders perspective, you don't have as much leverage as you think you do.

 

[FUBAR]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

What would you be making in a year or two in the new posiition? I'm speculating here (no real experience in this) but it seems to me that a temporary setback could be well worth it if you're likely to make more in a couple years. Also, would you work fewer hours? Is that important to you?

Also seems the company isn't neccessarily better off after "promoting" you. So why would they offer you more? (not saying they shouldn't, but why?)

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

The bolded was par for the course at The Firm when I was there. Was not unusual for someone to turn down a promo to manager for exactly the reasons you describe. And even the people who accepted - which was most who were offered the promotion - all of them had to pause and think about it. But there wasn't much room for anyone to come back and bargain harder. It was pretty much a take it or leave it proposition.

Before assuming the manager responsibilities, I was still working ~50 hours per week. So I was still earning the OT pay. There is no reason to believe that this will change if I do not accept the promotion. There is nobody in my department, or in my region for that matter, that can do all of the things that I do.

This is a highly specialized technical field. Finding people with knowledge and experience is very difficult. Hence the fact that we have not had any qualified applicants for almost a year.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Don't take the job.

 

[johnnycakes]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

Start carrying a dictionary around.

 

[Ignoramus]

If you're prepared to walk away know your worth and stick to it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

This is a good data point for you, but don't use it in your negotiations with them. Management won't like it.

Perhaps I missed your answering it, but the question about whether they could eliminate your current position and have you performing both jobs is significant. If you're willing to perform both roles and can present it that way, it's your best bet for the comp you're looking to get. Otherwise, go in with the data you have and make as compelling a case as you can. But you need to be prepared for the potential downside to negotiating (you don't get the new job, they take away your OT, they say, "If the market is paying that for these jobs, then go get one of those jobs elsewhere", etc) and know what your fallback position is.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If you're prepared to walk away know your worth and stick to it.

Also very much this.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

If you're prepared to walk away know your worth and stick to it.

Also very much this.

As insulted by the offer as I am, I am very prepared to say no thank you. But I will negotiate first, and see what happens. I am just unfamiliar with how to negotiate given the disparity.

 

[johnnycakes]

If you're prepared to walk away know your worth and stick to it.

Also very much this.

As insulted by the offer as I am, I am very prepared to say no thank you. But I will negotiate first, and see what happens. I am just unfamiliar with how to negotiate given the disparity.

I'd probably look at the other guy's salary as the absolute maximum the company would go, and then probably only if I took the right person out drinking or something along those lines. I wouldn't expect the company to go higher than that.... That said, if it's a big disparity you're talking about, I'd probably go into the negotiation playing stupid... like, "I'm working the numbers.... I was getting OT.... blah blah blah..." While playing dumb trying to make sense of it all, I'd build a solid case for what I was asking... maybe it's $20k higher.... so long as I could explain my reasoning to them with a straight face and then ask them to explain their reasoning so we could "work it out" sort of. But my expectation would be that $15k would be a maximum and not a likely maximum at that.

 

[comfortably numb]

I appreciate the offer but I'm not ready to take a paycut at this point in my life.

 

[tommyboy]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

Two options.

Dont answer, keep collecting current pay.

Or b

Tell them you are insulted and are giving them two weeks notice unless they pay you more than your current wages

 

[FUBAR]

Don't take the job.

This

You're clearly over qualified and deserve much better.

 

[Ned]

Are you basing the value of the manager job based on what you're doing right now? Sounds like you're doing 1.5-2 jobs right now. Will that continue when you're officially the manager or will they look to fill your old job afterwards? It feels to me like you're overvaluing the manager job based on two jobs.

 

[Instinctive]

I work for the Negotiation Center at Stanford. Every situation is unique, but here is my advice:

1. Most negotiations end up at the midpoint between the two sides' opening offers.

2. BATNA (someone mentioned above) is important. You have a decent one here. That's good, and it's a key creator of leverage.

Others with experience will have real advice, but I think those are two important things to keep in mind.

Good luck!

 

[wilked]

Spend at least half an hour filling these out

https://www.hashdoc.com/documents/17122/principled-negotiation-seven-element-preparation-tool

Keys are to really step into their shoes and think why they made the offer they did. They didn't do it because they are jerks, they did it for their own good reasons. Then spend a lot of time on options, look beyond salary numbers and see what else is possible (perhaps more vaca, perhaps a decent bonus based on results, perhaps a lot of things). Figure out your BATNA, are you willing to leave? Going back to your old role doesn't seem like a real option to me, you are a manager now whether with this company or another.

What are your points of legitimacy, ie glassdoor.com or another.

If you do this worksheet thoroughly and honestly (remember they have good reasons on their side, even if you don't agree) you will be in a good position to negotiate

 

[Johnny Rock]

Find other threads here about negotiating salary. Many of us have contributed to a few. Read Secrets of Power Salary Negotiating by Dawson.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

This is a good data point for you, but don't use it in your negotiations with them. Management won't like it.

Perhaps I missed your answering it, but the question about whether they could eliminate your current position and have you performing both jobs is significant. If you're willing to perform both roles and can present it that way, it's your best bet for the comp you're looking to get. Otherwise, go in with the data you have and make as compelling a case as you can. But you need to be prepared for the potential downside to negotiating (you don't get the new job, they take away your OT, they say, "If the market is paying that for these jobs, then go get one of those jobs elsewhere", etc) and know what your fallback position is.

They are likely thinking that they need to give you room to grow salary in this position. If your boss had been there for a long time he got raises over the years - they aren't going to want to put you in at what he was making after many years of being in the job.

 

[cstu]

Don't take the job.

This

You're clearly over qualified and deserve much better.

Yep, not that complicated. If he's as good as he says someone will want to pay him what he deserves.

 

[cstu]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

What are the odds they can find someone for the job at the salary they offered you?

 

[parasaurolophus]

To give you some insight from the opposite side of the table my thought would be that they used to pay two guys to do two jobs. They basically have paid you for 5 hrs a week more to do the work of both of you.

You need to find points of emphasis about how it was your specific talents that allowed this and how much you would improve the department if it was yours and you weren't bogged down.

The market data is also very important and comparing how you would be better than what is available in the market.

If you simply focus on what they paid you before, and what they paid the other guy I don't think it really helps that much.

 

[gianmarco]

I'd start looking elsewhere and see if you are worth what you think you are worth.

 

[bushdocda]

If the employer is unable to make the larger bump to the base you want, perhaps you can get them to agree to a yearly step plan.

sounds like they have a cap to what they will bump for a promotion internal.

They like not paying that salary clearly with the time spend with it open - would they backfill your role? If so they still save on an FTE.

 

[James Daulton]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

 

[James Daulton]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

Of course.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

Of course.

Is this also viewed as an acceptable answer when job searching? The question usually comes up about "why applying", can the candidate say "It's been 8 years, so it's time for a new role" or do they have to make up an answer that sounds good (like 95% of the time dealing with these HR recruiters).

 

[wilked]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

Of course.

Is this also viewed as an acceptable answer when job searching? The question usually comes up about "why applying", can the candidate say "It's been 8 years, so it's time for a new role" or do they have to make up an answer that sounds good (like 95% of the time dealing with these HR recruiters).

It sounds like you do not have well-established personal / professional goals...

If you take time to establish goals, and your current company cannot provide a vehicle to help you achieve those goals, you should look elsewhere. You shouldn't have to 'make things up'; if you truly are content to stay in your role indefinitely there is nothing inherently wrong with that. If that were the case and you were making things up to HR/Hiring Managers, you are probably doing them and yourself a disservice

 

[Chadstroma]

Been with this organization for 8 years. Was hired in a leadership position from the beginning. My supervisor retired a year ago. Manager position has been posted for a year now. I applied from the start. I have been tasked with assuming most of the manager responsibilities for at least 6 months now. And I have done them willingly because I would like the manager position. And I have done them well. As a department, we are doing better than ever. I have support from all of the staff. I have been the only qualified candidate. Finally got interviewed a couple of weeks ago. Was offered the position at the interview. Finally got the salary offer today.

With all of my responsibilities now, I work 50-55 hours per week. I am currently paid an hourly wage, so I earn OT pay. So I'm doing okay. The salary I was offered for the manager position would pay less than what I am making now considering the OT pay I make now. Considerably less. So it's a no-brainer to reject the offer.

Problem I have is that we are so far apart on salary. I seem to have all of the leverage and data on my side. National averages for the position are at least $10-12K higher than what they offered. And the organization that I work for is bigger than average. How does one approach a negotiation when the two sides seem to be so far apart?

The bolded was par for the course at The Firm when I was there. Was not unusual for someone to turn down a promo to manager for exactly the reasons you describe. And even the people who accepted - which was most who were offered the promotion - all of them had to pause and think about it. But there wasn't much room for anyone to come back and bargain harder. It was pretty much a take it or leave it proposition.

In the past, I worked for an organization that had a hard set % of what they would increase pay upon promotion. Same exact thing would happen where the expectation was that you worked 50-60ish hours a week on the new salary but when you figured what you would get working those hours in the hourly position, it was a pay cut. I was offered a promotion several times and turned them down each time because of this. It was easy for me because I very much did not like the organization and was going to leave anyways. If I had wanted to move up the ladder in positions, then I would have had to consider it. However, an organization like that thinks in those terms often does not create a good working environment and ends up having high turnover as their other policies end up being similar managment by accounting thinking.

 

[Chadstroma]

I work for the Negotiation Center at Stanford. Every situation is unique, but here is my advice:

1. Most negotiations end up at the midpoint between the two sides' opening offers.

2. BATNA (someone mentioned above) is important. You have a decent one here. That's good, and it's a key creator of leverage.

Others with experience will have real advice, but I think those are two important things to keep in mind.

Good luck!

Interesting. What are your recommendations on reading material for negoitations?

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

You should come to terms with the fact that they may not share your perspective on how much you contribute. Just the fact that you presume that they would be in 'big trouble' if you left would be a red flag for me if I was doing the hiring.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

You should come to terms with the fact that they may not share your perspective on how much you contribute. Just the fact that you presume that they would be in 'big trouble' if you left would be a red flag for me if I was doing the hiring.

Did you get this gold nugget off Pinterest?

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

Of course.

Is this also viewed as an acceptable answer when job searching? The question usually comes up about "why applying", can the candidate say "It's been 8 years, so it's time for a new role" or do they have to make up an answer that sounds good (like 95% of the time dealing with these HR recruiters).

It sounds like you do not have well-established personal / professional goals...

If you take time to establish goals, and your current company cannot provide a vehicle to help you achieve those goals, you should look elsewhere. You shouldn't have to 'make things up'; if you truly are content to stay in your role indefinitely there is nothing inherently wrong with that. If that were the case and you were making things up to HR/Hiring Managers, you are probably doing them and yourself a disservice

That makes sense about phrasing the response in terms of goals. Personally, I haven't been looking for any new roles, so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that. What did catch my attention was the commentary about the number of years of service potentially being viewed negatively in the recruiting/hiring community. My question was more getting at this: is there an unwritten rule of thumb about how often to change jobs to fit in with the expected norm, and along those lines of thinking, is it an acceptable topic to mention a certain number of years of service is reason enough for leaving a position in absence of their being a more substantial reason then just the number of years in and of itself?

Example: Employee has 8 years at a company. Employee is happy but is concerned about "looking stale" to potential future employers. Guy in post above basically said 8 years is "too long". My question is about accepted norms in the HR/Recruiting industry. I take your answer to mean "answer the question in terms of personal/professional goals." But the guy above didn't say that. He said 8 years and you're stale. That I found interesting, and was curious about how prevalent that thinking is, and how to best discuss the topic.

 

[parasaurolophus]

8 years? You're getting stale son, time to move on.

Is this a well established viewpoint in HR/companies hiring practices?

Of course.

Is this also viewed as an acceptable answer when job searching? The question usually comes up about "why applying", can the candidate say "It's been 8 years, so it's time for a new role" or do they have to make up an answer that sounds good (like 95% of the time dealing with these HR recruiters).

It sounds like you do not have well-established personal / professional goals...

If you take time to establish goals, and your current company cannot provide a vehicle to help you achieve those goals, you should look elsewhere. You shouldn't have to 'make things up'; if you truly are content to stay in your role indefinitely there is nothing inherently wrong with that. If that were the case and you were making things up to HR/Hiring Managers, you are probably doing them and yourself a disservice

That makes sense about phrasing the response in terms of goals. Personally, I haven't been looking for any new roles, so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that. What did catch my attention was the commentary about the number of years of service potentially being viewed negatively in the recruiting/hiring community. My question was more getting at this: is there an unwritten rule of thumb about how often to change jobs to fit in with the expected norm, and along those lines of thinking, is it an acceptable topic to mention a certain number of years of service is reason enough for leaving a position in absence of their being a more substantial reason then just the number of years in and of itself?

Example: Employee has 8 years at a company. Employee is happy but is concerned about "looking stale" to potential future employers. Guy in post above basically said 8 years is "too long". My question is about accepted norms in the HR/Recruiting industry. I take your answer to mean "answer the question in terms of personal/professional goals." But the guy above didn't say that. He said 8 years and you're stale. That I found interesting, and was curious about how prevalent that thinking is, and how to best discuss the topic.

I have never thought of any employee with 8 years experience as being stale.

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

You should come to terms with the fact that they may not share your perspective on how much you contribute. Just the fact that you presume that they would be in 'big trouble' if you left would be a red flag for me if I was doing the hiring.

Did you get this gold nugget off Pinterest?

I am not claiming to be an expert in h.r., but I have over five years experience on helping direct hiring committees. I have probably sat in on over 100 interviews and have helped to hire around 15 professionals in that time. Anyways....I feel I have a little bit of perspective of the type of employee people look for on a professional staff.

I am of the opinion that there are very few people in the world that are irreplaceable to an organization, no matter what training or credentials you have. To me, people who walk around thinking that they are more valuable than they are, are anathema to a productive working environment, so I feel that attitude and different perceptions of the situation are things he should consider. Not really sure what you mean by getting it off of Pinterest since I am a 100% hetero male....

I acknowledge that there certainly are cases where a 'lowball' offer occurs and the person in question undoubtedly 'should' ask for more money. In this case, the answer is pretty simple, tell them you want what the other guy was making and then quit if they will not give it. Just judging from the small sample of posts I have read, I doubt he has the stones to do that though.

In any event, he should probably just stay where he is because people who count hours are not, imho, really management material. Do yourself a solid and consult any organizational leadership book written over the last 100 years and try to find the section on getting the salary you think you deserve or what to do when you've worked too many hours for the man.....maybe he got 'lowballed' because they understand that managing and motivating a group of other people on a team is actually way, way different than doing any type of job in an autonomous fashion. Perhaps they are looking at this as giving him an opportunity to grow with the organization, and just maybe they feel that they might be taking a risk in putting somebody so accomplished and learned in charge of everyone else on the team.

 

[cstu]

That makes sense about phrasing the response in terms of goals. Personally, I haven't been looking for any new roles, so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that. What did catch my attention was the commentary about the number of years of service potentially being viewed negatively in the recruiting/hiring community. My question was more getting at this: is there an unwritten rule of thumb about how often to change jobs to fit in with the expected norm, and along those lines of thinking, is it an acceptable topic to mention a certain number of years of service is reason enough for leaving a position in absence of their being a more substantial reason then just the number of years in and of itself?

Example: Employee has 8 years at a company. Employee is happy but is concerned about "looking stale" to potential future employers. Guy in post above basically said 8 years is "too long". My question is about accepted norms in the HR/Recruiting industry. I take your answer to mean "answer the question in terms of personal/professional goals." But the guy above didn't say that. He said 8 years and you're stale. That I found interesting, and was curious about how prevalent that thinking is, and how to best discuss the topic.

I think what he means if that if you didn't progress within your current company and stayed there anyway then it could be viewed (fair or unfair) as you not being motivated and/or not viewed by the company as promotion material.

 

[cstu]

I have never thought of any employee with 8 years experience as being stale.

If they have stayed in a lower level role that long and have been content then I view them as a worker bee, not management material.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Also, my supervisor who retired last year was making at least $15K more than what I was offered. He told me what he was making long before he retired. He carried a dictionary around because he couldn't spell. He did not know computers. Did not know finance. He just happened to luck into the position 25 years ago, and rode the paychecks to retirement.

I have more education, a higher level of technical certification, and I can do all aspects of the department. I manage production, staff, policies and procedures, scheduling, inventory, supply ordering, QA/QC. I could easily stop doing these things and they are in big trouble.

You should come to terms with the fact that they may not share your perspective on how much you contribute. Just the fact that you presume that they would be in 'big trouble' if you left would be a red flag for me if I

was doing the hiring.

I hear what you're saying. And I agree with you. It sounds very presumptuous. Probably could have been coveyed in a better way.

But more info on my situation. When my boss retired, there were 3 lead positions under him. Myself and two other people. I was at the top of those three. Since that retirement, no qualified candidates for the open management position other than myself. Both of the other two lead staff have left. One left the organization. The other made a lateral move to another department. So not only do we not have a manager for almost a year, we have lost 3/4 of our leadership structure. I have assumed the responsibilities of all four roles. There are things that I cannot do, things that I choose to not do, but for the most part, I am responsible for most everything else. So if I were to leave, I believe that in the short term, they would be in trouble.

 

[tommyboy]

the only way salaried employees have leverage is if they truly are willing and able to walk out the door. Mgmt thinks rightly that most people won't do that, and so they "win" a lot of negotiations.

However, many years ago, i had a similar experience that you are going through right now. I had been hired as the purchasing agent for a company and through my hard work and brains, the company grew significantly and made a lot of money. I knew I was underpaid and didn't care because I just wanted the experience. After 2 yrs i started to care a little bit more about money and so i did some research and found out how woefully underpaid i actually was in our industry. when my review came, they offered me a token raise and then i brought out the facts of the matter and said if you don't increase my pay by about $10k per year minimum, just consider this my 2 wks notice.

the owner and GM talked about it and apparently thought i was bluffing so they offered a 2nd token raise, to which i said, goodbye then. They scrambled to hire some kid that was a moron to replace me and I left. about a year goes by, i'm at my new job making double what I made there, and I get a call from my former GM. He says what would it take to hire you back? I gave them a number that was almost triple what i was making, they said "we'll get back to you" I thought for sure they'd hang up on me. They did call back and tried to negotiate me down to more than double what I was making when I left. I politely declined and thanked them for the offer. About 2 months later the company folded.

If you are really an indespensible asset for this company, my best advice to you is to shop around and see what your skill set is worth to someone else. THen you don't have to sit there and listen to some mgmt dolt tell you what you're worth, you can tell him what you're worth and if they want to keep you, they'll gladly pay it.

the only way to win negotations is leverage., use it.

 

[sbonomo]

I will tell you from personal experience: I was recently promoted, third time in six years (look at me), which entailed a major relocation (moved from LA to SF) and a huge increase in hours/responsibility. For perspective, my portfolio went from $1bn to $9bn with an increase in credit authority from $5.0MM to $500MM. I was offered a 20% raise. IMO, that did not even cover the cost of living adjustment let alone the new job requirements. I told HR that we were so far off that it was not even worth discussing. I thanked them for their time and told them that i would be continuing to look inside and outside for my desired position. Long story short, the hiring manager took over negotiations because they needed me badly. I ended up with a 35% raise and good relo package. I would have liked more but, the experience was worth it. To someone's point earlier, I ended up with about 65-70% of my pie in the sky. Like others have also said, i was willing to turn down a dream job because the economics just didn't work.

Good luck, i hate HR.

 

[skol asylum]

I keep misreading this title as "how to handle a blow job offer".

 

[sbonomo]

I keep misreading this title as "how to handle a blow job offer".

Well that is easy - "Yes"