Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Sell it. Unless you're close to the ocean, not worth holding onto, given your situation.
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How's your housing market? (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter tommyGunZ
- Start date
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
I agree. You don't sound too certain that you will be back. If you can't charge enough rent to cover the mortgage, it's a losing proposition.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Agreed, even if you're near the ocean and expect a downturn.
I'd keep it if you're reasonably sure you'll be back and/or willing to bet that the value increases enough. Plus the losses including potential loss and headache of being a LL half a world away have to be minor enough to you that the risk is worth taking.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
So we live in the Bay Area. We want to move to a neighboring community with better schools. We may be able to buy a home for $300k to $500k more than our house. Problem is, we are struggling to figure out how to buy a house before selling ours. Most sales have no contingencies, never mind a "we'll buy your house when we sell ours" contingency. We don't have the down payment we need and we can't get a large enough HELOC due to the amount of debt we have in our mortgage.
And inventory is crazy low. Add to that the changes in the tax law (lowered mortgage interest deduction, lowered overall deductions) and increase in property taxes, and it looks like we're "stuck." We have near 7 figure equity in our home and plenty in our retirement accounts, but we still have really few options unless we sell and leave the area, which we won't do because we have great jobs and tons of family/friends here. Great position to be in for the future, but we're strangely limited right now.
And inventory is crazy low. Add to that the changes in the tax law (lowered mortgage interest deduction, lowered overall deductions) and increase in property taxes, and it looks like we're "stuck." We have near 7 figure equity in our home and plenty in our retirement accounts, but we still have really few options unless we sell and leave the area, which we won't do because we have great jobs and tons of family/friends here. Great position to be in for the future, but we're strangely limited right now.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You could sell for slightly under market and have a cash offer within days.
Also, with the 30 year touching 4.5% this week, I’d start questioning how the massive appreciation in homes over the last few years reacts. If it goes over 4.5%, especially in homes in the $1.5-2.0MM range and under, that’s going to have a big impact on affordability and price a lot of people out.
Also, worth keeping an eye on the top of the market - here in NY, 8 figure listings have not seen huge appreciation in the last 12 months and those prices have become more stagnant.
For the first time in about 8 or 9 years, I’m not bullish housing.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
only take a cash offer that can close in two weeks. Get pre approved for a new house loan. Live in a hotel for a few weeks, or with friends. You'll see plenty of cash offers.
Buttonhook
Footballguy
A big consideration is the tax free gains that you can take advantage of if you sell now, since you've lived there for over two years as your primary residence.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
I'm an hour west of Philly & market is stupid high. We have to be due for a correction, right? I've been shopping since last year & even junk is overpriced. I know winter is not when most homes get listed so I'm hoping once Spring hits, I'll finally find something. Not my 1st time being a homeowner & I do not recall it being this much of a PITA last time around.
The General
Footballguy
Seattle continues to be through the roof. Amazon is really blowing everything up. No end in sight with them, construction cranes all over the place.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Yeah, but how is traffic and the roads?
Our area is booming and adding the Toyota/Mazda plant, housing values are rising nicely but the roads and congestion suck big time. Not DC/NYC by any means but a lot worse than 2 years ago already.
The General
Footballguy
Pretty much the same which is to say pretty sucky for traffic. It doesn’t freeze here so the roads are always in pretty decent shape.
A huge tax thing passed that is building some public transport options which is hopefully going to help.
My main drive to work was helped with a new bridge, bad news is it’s now a toll.
A lot of the neighborhoods are bike and walk friendly which does help a bit.
Starting to see some frothy stupidness in what people are asking for. Based on comps, etc. a lot of things left on the market at the moment in Denver are asking way too high based on comparable recent sales. For example, my wife has a client that wanted to see a place over the weekend that was sold less than 3 years ago and the owner has listed it 50% higher now with no new improvements. There's been a lot of appreciation, but not that crazy. March 1st should be interesting, that is typically when we see a ton of stuff listed to kick off the spring buying season.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
Not really. Agents go by the MLS comps to your property.Keerock said:Zestimate on my house has dropped 33% in the last year. I know these estimates are generally BS, but if I wanted to sell right now, it would certainly negatively impact what I could get
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Here's a link to some analysis on San Diego's housing data. As you know, markets can differ from neighborhood to neighborhood, but the macro trend data at that site should better educate yourself as to the state of the market.
From where I sit, I have no idea where we are headed. Prices seem high to me, but per the analysis linked above, we're sitting on less than 2 months of inventory, which suggests upward pressure on prices for at least the next 6 months barring an explosion of inventory. (For reference, 6 months of inventory is generally considered the equilibruium historically for the SD housing market; so less than 6 months inventory, pressure on prices to rise; > 6 months, downward pressure on prices). So my "feeling" that prices are high and we are due for a correction is more of a gut reaction not supported by data, while the data suggests further price increases. The data is usually right.
I'd lean toward selling if I were you. You may not sell at the top of the market, but you've certainly had good timing and no need to get greedy if you're not committed to moving back to San Diego long term. Maintaining a rental from out of country or out of state can be a nightmare, especially if you're dumping money into it every month. Take your equity gains and buy Cobalt with bitcoins. :MANSION:
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Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
I guess Houston's market is nuts. We offered our old house last Monday, and we got ten offers. Three are cash offers at or above our asking price. I love our realtor. She called it on the nose again.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
Our problem is that I can't get enough credit to make an offer on a new home. Rent back is fine. Hell, we can even move into my mom's place across the street. Challenge there is once we do that, then we are under pressure to commit to purchasing. Right now there are literally 2 homes in that community that we can afford.
Last week a house in that community that was listed for $1.9 million sold for $2.75 million.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
Ahh hell. Moot point now!
(actually might be a good time to buy if people have hard time getting some cash together)
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Non-essential background: So we're planning on getting out of the Bay Area while the getting's good and heading towards Sacto. this summer. Both of our jobs can move, we already have a lot of friends up there, we can get more than 2x as much house for less than what we'll sell ours for, etc. etc.
Planning on going on the market first week of May, certainly we'll get some good offers pretty quickly, and then we'll quickly look to buy something and move out in June. Question: We know some people who are interested in a house like ours (quiet street, 3 bedroom), not good friends, but friends of friends. Is there any value/advantage to working something out with them, instead of going to market? Assuming they're willing to pay close to what we think we'll get? We have a realtor, could we get her less? I've only bought one house and never sold one before so kinda new to this part of it. TIA.
Planning on going on the market first week of May, certainly we'll get some good offers pretty quickly, and then we'll quickly look to buy something and move out in June. Question: We know some people who are interested in a house like ours (quiet street, 3 bedroom), not good friends, but friends of friends. Is there any value/advantage to working something out with them, instead of going to market? Assuming they're willing to pay close to what we think we'll get? We have a realtor, could we get her less? I've only bought one house and never sold one before so kinda new to this part of it. TIA.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
GL in Sactown. Large or XL for your Doug Christie jersey?
Value in selling on your own is avoiding the realtor fees, but if you already have your realtor, I don't see any upside. Put it on the market and let fools bid your spot way up!
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Is it possible to use our realtor just for the paperwork and such? And could the amount we save possibly outweigh what we will lose going to market?
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
No XL here. 
ointstosky:
ointstosky:
The General
Footballguy
Two friends trying to buy right now in Seattle. Both have been out bid with escalators going about 15% over asking.
Places show, take offers a week later and pick the best one. Any offers with contingencies are tosssed out.
Places show, take offers a week later and pick the best one. Any offers with contingencies are tosssed out.
needanap
Footballguy
Disclosure -- I am a real estate agent
If you don't have a listing agreement with your real estate agent, tell her you want to sell your house for a total of 3%. She can make 1% and offer 2% in the MLS. If you really like her you can see if she'd be interested in helping with the place in Sacramento area. She can then make commission on your purchase up there. There is a lot of legal paper work associated with buying/selling and it is my opinion the 3% you pay to have your house advertised in the MLS and have the paper work done is worth it.
Where are you currently? I grew up in Cupertino (wish my parents had sold me their house). We then moved to the Evergreen area of San Jose and in 2001 sold there and moved up to Sacramento area for similar reasons to what you mention. We moved to Granite Bay and stayed up there 9 years. Moved to Southern California in 2011. Where are you planning on moving to in the Sacramento area? There are some very nice areas around Sacramento.
Here in Denver, wife has a listing that is closing this Friday. House was listed Wed Feb 14th, within 24 hours had two offers sight unseen over asking. Open house the following Saturday literally had a line of people out the door waiting to see it, ended up with 10 offers all above asking. Seller decided to go with a nice couple that were first time home buyers, they weren't offering the highest bid, but did offer 20K over asking and were willing to give an appraisal guarantee of 10K (so if the house didn't appraise for the sale price, which it didn't, they would make up the difference.) Assuming everything goes alright this Friday with the Closing, house will set a new record for that neighborhood. Helps that it was originally priced at 340K which is very entry level here in Denver.
It's tough for buyer's, any halfway decent house that's not outrageously priced has tons of offers and everyone competing to be the one to get it. My wife has a couple of buyer's that want new builds instead and the waiting list is like 9 months long.
It's tough for buyer's, any halfway decent house that's not outrageously priced has tons of offers and everyone competing to be the one to get it. My wife has a couple of buyer's that want new builds instead and the waiting list is like 9 months long.
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Going from the I-580 area
oldunsure
up to Folsom. We don't have a listing agreement in place, we've just agreed orally to work together. Our house is not big and we're expecting 800. Maybe even a bit more, but 8's def. not out of the question.
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Sand
Footballguy
They don't have it setup to have appropriate comps, so I can see how this would happen.
I have beachfront property and my Zestimate has changed by ~60% this year (down and back up). They just don't get that the second row is worth .5x and third row is worth .3x.
-----
Also, as a general note, I'd like to thank the Fed for moderating the boom and bust cycles in real estate. They're doing a bang up job.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
Zillow uses algorithms that can be way off most of the times, especially in non disclosure states
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
PIK95
Footballguy
You want to pay your agent 1%? That's laughable. I would take 4% (instead of my standard 6%) to handle both ends of a transaction if I liked the situation, but nobody that has any talent is gonna take 1% to sell your home. Wow.
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Capella
Footballguy
3% is a racket. No way in hell I am ever giving away my hard-earned equity for somebody to produce some standard forms. That’s crazy to me.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
I have multiple family members who were RE agents. I’m familiar with the work. In a hot market giving them 3% is ridiculous. My house would sell within 48 hours of it being listed. Why would I give somebody that money?
I get it in a poor market or if you're buying. Not when selling in a white-hot market.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
A real good agent can net you more than the 3%. Also, there's so much more involved in a transaction than just the forms. That's like 2% of the work.
ETA: I will lower it 1% of I'm helping them also buy a home also. Quantity discount.
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Capella
Footballguy
I’m really not trying to be flip because I know how hard agents hustle. My mom used to be one. But in this time I just couldn’t see myself turning over that kind of money when the house would sell immediately at the price I want.
I get flyers on my house almost every day. I feel like I would be able to get what I want.
Zegras11
Footballguy
and you will. A very good agent will get you more. There also so many things that put a seller at huge liability if not performed correctly. We have checklists a mile long to make sure none of that happens. I understand where you are coming from, and every once in awhile, a deal is easy, but quite often, we need to get legal answers from our broker on tough issues. Weird crap happens way too much. Getting offers is the easy part. A lot of the work that needs to be done correctly comes after that.
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
You sound like a 'very good agent' here.....
Look, he's right in what he's thinking, you said so yourself. And over-paying an "agent" to make sure of it all is not the answer.
If he wants to save a ton of money by educating himself and knowing what to do, more power to him.
The thinly veiled threats of disaster are hilarious. Oh wait, the potential catastrophic consequences is why you must have an agent! Also, you must pay them the going-rate (outlandish or not).
Fear is the best seller of all-time.
James Daulton
Footballguy
This. $3k vs $21k is the issue most of us have. There should be a sliding scale as home prices rise. If I can get my wife to agree to sell, I'd contract with the same agent if possible and see if I could get him down to 5% or 4%. I'd be selling a house near $500k and buying one a little over $500k.
Capella
Footballguy
I get that for sure. Guess I’m just speaking for myself here. I have a legal background so I think I can handle it. Joe and Jane Smith, I can see why they’d want to pay. And if I have any problems I’d just hire a lawyer to review all the docs for me.
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proteus126
Footballguy
I've bought two houses and sold one. I've put down offers on a total of four houses, and walked away from two when negotiations broke down. The paperwork is lengthy but straighforward. Checklists can be had online. Knowing how to declutter and stage your house for sale is not rocket science. Controlling emotion, got it.
Given the above, I see the main value of a seller agent as being getting people in the door, advising on pricing, and helping keep the sellers on the same page. My last agent wouldn't even venture to suggest a proper listing price, so I had to figure that out by myself. Then she said "your price seems about right". Thanks. I don't know if that is common or not among seller agents, but it was annoying. Could have used some feedback as a first time seller.
What else is there? Pre-showing to other agents? Worth something. Evaluating competing offers? Worth something. But not worth me giving up $40k on an $800k sale.
Bacon is Delicious
Footballguy
The unending debate on whether RE agents are worth it!
I see it as similar to doing a small remodel on your house. Some people can find this painfully easy to do themselves and ridiculous to spend an additional 20%-30% on labor. For others who have zero knowledge, or skills, may find it not so simple.
Sure, you can learn how to do most of this stuff, but some people just aren't cut out for it. I think having a legal-background would be super-important, especially in more expensive market, where hustlers like to play.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
You should have walked out at that point. One of the services an agent should provide is expertise on the home's value.
What else is there? Staging the house. Photographing it to best advantage. Knowing what features to emphasize. Efficient selling. Settling any issues that come up with the other party. My agent sold two houses for me and helped us buy the one I'm sitting in. Knowing all issues were taken care of was completely worth it. She had people to clean the first house, a contractor to work on this one, someone to dispose of the crap we didn't want from our last house, a home inspector, a termite inspector, all of it.
She would get 3% to sell a house and 5% if she acted for both parties. Cheaping out just wasn't an option.
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proteus126
Footballguy
Agree. I'm not saying outlaw high agent payments. I'm resisting the notion that what the buying and selling agents bring to the table is worth 40 grand to sell a house that is properly maintained and presented by an owner with a clue, to buyers who can find it online, visit it, and have it professionally inspected. Unless realtors exert a cartel-like choke hold over access to MLS and listing services. Then its just pay to play.
I've been helping my wife get into the real estate business for over a year now and a blanket statement like this is nowhere near the truth. Maybe if we are comparing a 100K house in west Texas to a 700K house in SoCal it might be similar amounts of work. Both high end houses and low end houses are much more difficult to sell, for very different reasons. High end shoppers are very particular, it takes a lot more marketing, showings, pictures, staging, and often improvements to the home (high end shoppers are definitely going to care if that carpet's not brand new or there's scratches in walls for example.) Low end houses are often cheap for a reason, they have major issues and often the buyers have issues themselves. That's why many agents try to focus on the entry level and the median level market, those are the houses that almost sell themselves in a hot market.
Most agents worth their salt will give you a discount on the sell side if they are getting the buy side also. Many people are trading up when buying their new home and the commission is usually larger for the agent on the buy side. This is especially true of agents working on teams where they only get a percentage of the commission and the rest goes to the team, they usually get a bigger percentage on the buy. How deep a discount really depends on the house, the market, etc. If your house is in great condition, in a desirable neighborhood, etc. they will probably come off quite a bit on the standard 6%.
One thing a lot of people don't realize though is that when they try to save even more and try to cut the buyer's agents commission when they are selling their home they often really hurt their chances of selling the house. It's supposed to be illegal and it's majorly unethical, but there are a lot of agents out there that won't even show their clients homes that are listed with reduced buyer's agent commission's.
I think that's a good way of putting it, there are definitely people out there that would do just fine without an agent and shouldn't need one when selling their house.
The unending debate on whether RE agents are worth it!
I see it as similar to doing a small remodel on your house. Some people can find this painfully easy to do themselves and ridiculous to spend an additional 20%-30% on labor. For others who have zero knowledge, or skills, may find it not so simple.
Sure, you can learn how to do most of this stuff, but some people just aren't cut out for it. I think having a legal-background would be super-important, especially in more expensive market, where hustlers like to play.
There's also a ton of folks that have no idea what they are doing. My wife spends a lot of time working on leads that are expired listings on For Sale By Owners. Occasionally you can convince one of these people to go with an agent and they are often surprised that suddenly they sell their house when they had no luck on their own. But a large percentage of those folks are just super cheap and/or have unrealistic expectations.
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