HS girls stage a walkout as trans teen uses girls bathroom (1 Viewer)

[sublimeone]

What happens when the class clown (male) decides he's going to identify as female and walks into the girls locker room? Will there be a hearing to decide if he "really" identifies as female? What will be the identifiers? Will (s)he have to have long hair, wear "women's" clothing, makeup? Is it necessary to look like a woman to identify as one?

So silly. Does this sort of dilemma keep you up nights?

I believe this is a reasonable question. Why can't you provide a reasonable answer?

because it's absurd? No class clown is going to go through that kind of effort or ridicule. And if it was fake the administrators would see right through it. No hearing would be required. Transgender is not something that happens overnight anyhow. School counsellors are going to be very aware of any real transgender transformation.

What effort? He starts using the girls locker room. When confronted he says "I'm a girl, leave me the f alone or I'll sue."

 

[TobiasFunke]

I agree with this. In general, this is no threat to the Republic. Honestly. No rule should be needed. Generally, nobody needs to tell people about Western constructs of propriety and privacy. Sometimes, though, these things get muddled and we need a rule. When the rule itself gets muddled by a gender concern, things get a little more, um, up for grabs than I'd like. My problem, I guess, stems from the problematic dogma of "gender as construct," but that's a different debate for a different time.

Seriously, though. Aside from the sitting problem and the potential lines for the men's room, co-ed bathrooms personally don't bother me unless I need to poop. I was kidding before, but I poop nasty. Don't want potential mates smelling that. I really sort of support sex-segregated bathrooms.

Yay?

You need to sell the concept that more virile men take stinker dumps.

Get in touch with my wife. As the mother of two unplanned children and the victim of countless horrifying dump odors she'll be happy to corroborate.

 

[parrot]

Rockaction you keep warning about these slippery slopes. Yet we all know that transgender people do exist and many are high school students. So if you had your way, what should we do about it?

What's wrong with the tried and true method of marginalization and ridicule until they hopefully commit suicide? If it ain't broke...

 

[rockaction]

Rockaction you keep warning about these slippery slopes. Yet we all know that transgender people do exist and many are high school students. So if you had your way, what should we do about it?

What's wrong with the tried and true method of marginalization and ridicule until they hopefully commit suicide? If it ain't broke...

This is a gross distortion of my argument, and anybody who argues this way knows it and will vilify my position to the extent that it need be. That is all.

No more words wasted on this idiot.

 

[timschochet]

Rockaction you keep warning about these slippery slopes. Yet we all know that transgender people do exist and many are high school students. So if you had your way, what should we do about it?

I'd stick largely to biology as far as the restrooms -- and especially lockers -- go. Then I'd instruct the tenth graders to take a class in it.

That's not flippant, by the way, I really would. If we could get an honest biology class discussing the difference between the sexes, that would be even better, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

A transgender (in this case a male who becomes a female) who is forced to stay in the boys locker room is going to be subject to such incredible ridicule that it will create, IMO, even more problems for the school. (Or, more likely, most transgender under such a restriction will just continue to keep it in the closet, and more will commit suicide as a result.)

So I don't know if I can accept this idea. There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

As to teaching about it, of course I'm all for that.

 

[D-Day]

What happens when the class clown (male) decides he's going to identify as female and walks into the girls locker room? Will there be a hearing to decide if he "really" identifies as female? What will be the identifiers? Will (s)he have to have long hair, wear "women's" clothing, makeup? Is it necessary to look like a woman to identify as one?

So silly. Does this sort of dilemma keep you up nights?

I believe this is a reasonable question. Why can't you provide a reasonable answer?

because it's absurd? No class clown is going to go through that kind of effort or ridicule. And if it was fake the administrators would see right through it. No hearing would be required. Transgender is not something that happens overnight anyhow. School counsellors are going to be very aware of any real transgender transformation.

So this "gaydar" type thing is real?

 

[BowieMercs]

Grant them a medical waiver so they can spend gym class in the library with the asthmatic kids

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

 

[D-Day]

So, the guy who is uncomfortable in changing clothes around other guys, thinks the girls who are uncomfortable changing clothes around a single guy are bigots?

 

[timschochet]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

 

[shader]

Good.

Rod and reel use the door. Its not a psychological determination on the bathroom. Its a physical one.

The problem is that sometimes the problem goes in the exact opposite direction ... if you have a transgender man who looks to all the world like a man but is forced to use the ladies room he's probably gonna make everyone in there feel pretty uncomfortable. So really the problem is just that women are too squeamish- can't handle a male transgender or a female transgender. Get over yourselves, ladies

The problem is that he's a male trying to use a female's bathroom.

 

[Cjw_55106]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

Why do you keep harping on the number? If it was one, five or three hundred, they feel uncomfortable. Why should they have to be put in that position? Oh, right...so the transgender doesnt feel uncomfortable.

 

[McGarnicle]

Worst thread about high school girls ever.

Also I refuse to click on the link in the OP as those ####ers ran a snuff video on their front page.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

It doesn't have to be unanimous. As long as even one girl is bothered by this, and her concerns are reasonable (which is quite clearly the case here), it's discrimination if the school continues to let this happen.

 

[timschochet]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

It doesn't have to be unanimous. As long as even one girl is bothered by this, and her concerns are reasonable (which is quite clearly the case here), it's discrimination if the school continues to let this happen.

Really? Suppose this was 1956 and a white girl was bothered by having to shower and change in the presence of a black girl. Would it be discrimination if the school continued to let that happen?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

It doesn't have to be unanimous. As long as even one girl is bothered by this, and her concerns are reasonable (which is quite clearly the case here), it's discrimination if the school continues to let this happen.

Really? Suppose this was 1956 and a white girl was bothered by having to shower and change in the presence of a black girl. Would it be discrimination if the school continued to let that happen?

First of all, Title IX didn't exist in 1956. Second, the situation you're describing doesn't have anything to do with sexual discrimination.

 

[timschochet]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

Why do you keep harping on the number? If it was one, five or three hundred, they feel uncomfortable. Why should they have to be put in that position? Oh, right...so the transgender doesnt feel uncomfortable.

I would prefer that nobody feel uncomfortable. But for that to happen, the intolerant people are the ones who have to change.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

It doesn't have to be unanimous. As long as even one girl is bothered by this, and her concerns are reasonable (which is quite clearly the case here), it's discrimination if the school continues to let this happen.

Really? Suppose this was 1956 and a white girl was bothered by having to shower and change in the presence of a black girl. Would it be discrimination if the school continued to let that happen?

The black girl has no choice in her color.

 

[rockaction]

Arguing Title IX in support of gendered-based bathrooms takes this to an almost reductive place that we really don't need. Sorry, IK, I get your point about the legal concerns about gendered bathrooms, but this might be a normative discussion for the having.

I'm basically saying don't use the scorpion's tail to sting the snake. ####, both are bad.

 

[timschochet]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

It doesn't have to be unanimous. As long as even one girl is bothered by this, and her concerns are reasonable (which is quite clearly the case here), it's discrimination if the school continues to let this happen.

Really? Suppose this was 1956 and a white girl was bothered by having to shower and change in the presence of a black girl. Would it be discrimination if the school continued to let that happen?

First of all, Title IX didn't exist in 1956. Second, the situation you're describing doesn't have anything to do with sexual discrimination.

Neither does this case.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

 

[timschochet]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

Because the few are wrong?

And by the way, how does this situation "encourage" transgender? Do you really believe there's a lot of guys out there thinking- "Hey now, if this dude can become a girl, why can't I?"

 

[rockaction]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Considering the legal arguments for dysphoria come from the DSM, it's only a matter of time until the rights-based portion of dysphoria asserts itself in diametric opposition to the DSM once the legal disability rights are achieved.

No doubt.

 

[timschochet]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

Because the few are wrong?

And by the way, how does this situation "encourage" transgender? Do you really believe there's a lot of guys out there thinking- "Hey now, if this dude can become a girl, why can't I?"

The second part of my question goes with the first. If it is a mental illness and the school makes accommodations that contribute to the illness, they are in fact encouraging the sick individual to continue to be sick.

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

There are about 60 million people with "mental disorders" in the US. That's about 1/4th. Why are we cool with labelling 1/4th of society as having a mental disorder, but we're not cool with that label for transgenders?

Also, having a mental disorder or illness does not mean that you are a danger to yourself or society. What does that line of reasoning have to do with anything?

 

[rockaction]

You know, it would strike some people as weird that you claim that the GOP has moved away from you, tim.

It might be you've aligned yourself with a distinctly radical position on a lot of things.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

You may be changing your tune a bit. Just a few minutes ago you had all of these transgender committing suicide.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves? You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

You may be changing your tune a bit. Just a few minutes ago you had all of these transgender committing suicide.

I'm sure the argument is that the suicide is because of bullying.

 

[timschochet]

You know, it would strike some people as weird that you claim that the GOP has moved away from you, tim.

It might be you've aligned yourself with a distinctly radical position on a lot of things.

That's true.

But in fact, transgender is relatively in a new issue. I was not referring so much to the GOP, but to the libertarian movement, and my focus there was on illegal immigration and free trade.

As far as transgender, I feel like I'm a little out on a limb here, going where my logic tells me to go. I haven't made up my mind on the question of whether or not this student should be allowed to change in the locker room. But I tend to reject the characterization of transgender as a choice or an illness, and I don't consider too many of the arguments being made here to be valid.

 

[Eminence]

I'm glad Americans still have common sense.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder

 

[rockaction]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves?You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

No, it's quite clear that those sympathetic to the trans rights cause will use the DSM for legal rights and then discard the diagnosis once the legal rights are achieved.

It's the activist playbook. Anybody fooled by (let's hang the hangman -- tim) is an idiot and has played the dupe yet again. The problem is, this activism now happens in warp speed and is easily sussed out by even the dullest of us, me included.

 

[timschochet]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves?You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

The suicide rate is because society makes them feel unwelcome.

 

[BowieMercs]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves?You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

Has this been established? Just sayin.

 

[D-Day]

The school supplied a gender neutral bathroom, but that solution was rejected by the student.

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

And those increase suicide rates people are quoting?

 

[Cjw_55106]

There has to be a solution to this that doesn't result in discrimination.

Not sure if this applies at the K-12 level, but the Department of Education has already ruled that creating a hostile environment for female students is itself a form of discrimination under Title IX. The girls at this school clearly feel that being asked to change and shower in front of a boy creates such an environment. The school would be guilty of sexual discrimination by foisting the transgendered student on the girls.

SOME students at this school. We don't know how many of them are girls, and we don't know how many of these girls are actually the ones that were in the locker room.

And I also don't know if they being asked to either change or shower "in front of him".

Why do you keep harping on the number? If it was one, five or three hundred, they feel uncomfortable. Why should they have to be put in that position? Oh, right...so the transgender doesnt feel uncomfortable.

I would prefer that nobody feel uncomfortable. But for that to happen, the intolerant people are the ones who have to change.

A high school girl who isnt comfortable with a boy in the locker room is intolerant? Although I disagree with you most of the time, I at least "get" your arguments. This one makes zero sense. Suggesting they need to change? Thats moronic.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

The school supplied a gender neutral bathroom, but that solution was rejected by the student.

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

And those increase suicide rates people are quoting?

I know this is a serious conversation, but that avatar is

 

[rockaction]

You know, it would strike some people as weird that you claim that the GOP has moved away from you, tim.

It might be you've aligned yourself with a distinctly radical position on a lot of things.

That's true.

But in fact, transgender is relatively in a new issue. I was not referring so much to the GOP, but to the libertarian movement, and my focus there was on illegal immigration and free trade.

As far as transgender, I feel like I'm a little out on a limb here, going where my logic tells me to go. I haven't made up my mind on the question of whether or not this student should be allowed to change in the locker room. But I tend to reject the characterization of transgender as a choice or an illness, and I don't consider too many of the arguments being made here to be valid.

In all seriousness, where on earth has any libertarian talked about disallowing trade? That would seem to automatically disallow you from being a libertarian. I also agree on immigration and libertarians, but what do they propose to do about outright invasions?

Holy crap.

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves?You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

The suicide rate is because society makes them feel unwelcome.

I seriously doubt that. That's a major stretch.

 

[timschochet]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder

Well, there's probably a good reason he's no longer there.

But seriously, I am no doctor. I am uncomfortable with the terms "illness" or "disorder" because both imply that the behavior is wrong, voluntary, and can be "cured". I don't believe that such ideas apply to transgender issues.

 

[rockaction]

I know this is a serious conversation, but that avatar is

That's one of my favorites on the board, by far, and I don't even play the game.

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

Then why is the suicide rate brought up if they aren't "dangerous" to themselves?You don't like the term illness here, which I can appreciate, but there's something happening mentally to make them reject their sex/body.

The suicide rate is because society makes them feel unwelcome.

I seriously doubt that. That's a major stretch.

Even if society was 100% welcoming, I'd really be distraught if I thought I was a woman, but I had the body of a man. That would create all sorts of problems in my head, regardless of whether society was cool with it or not.

I'm sure there are some suicides that result from bullying. But to say that the suicide rate is due to bigotry and a cruel society is a ridiculous assertion, imo.

 

[timschochet]

If the school was willing to supply a gender neutral bathroom, that should resolve the issue. If the student rejects that solution, then it is the student which is being unreasonable in this case.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

The school supplied a gender neutral bathroom, but that solution was rejected by the student.

Wait, what?

Kid can go eff himself then.

 

[shader]

I've seen a few have said transgender is a mental illness. If this is the case why would a school system promote and encourage this illness?

This is a touchy subject. People hate when you call transgender a mental illness. Which is very weird to me. What's the big deal? It's OBVIOUSLY a mental illness. Why not recognize it as such so that these people can get the help they need? Instead of trying to force all of society to change rules to accommodate people that are suffering from mental issues.

Because illness implies there's something wrong with it.

If I am chemically imbalanced, there's something wrong with me. I could do harm to myself or to others. If I am a psychopath, or a paranoid personality, who knows the crap I might do? I shouldn't be allowed to own guns, that's for sure.

But a transgender is no more "dangerous" to himself or herself, or to society, than a non-transgender.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder

Well, there's probably a good reason he's no longer there.

But seriously, I am no doctor. I am uncomfortable with the terms "illness" or "disorder" because both imply that the behavior is wrong, voluntary, and can be "cured". I don't believe that such ideas apply to transgender issues.

That's completely false Tim. On all three points. You're slamming tens of millions of Americans with this statement.

Mental disorders often are never cured. I don't think anyone views mental disorders as "wrong", and I don't think anyone chooses to have a mental illness.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I know this is a serious conversation, but that avatar is

That's one of my favorites on the board, by far, and I don't even play the game.

I did for several weeks and then my wife told me to act like an adult. She had a point. But the thread here for that game is good peoples.

And there's no Tim.

 

[BowieMercs]

Wait! I was told it was a locker room.