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Hypo: Antonio Gates is available in NFL Draft (1 Viewer)

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
Knowing that Gates is an All-Pro, and what he's proven on the NFL stage, does he go #1 overall?

Or if you're the Texans, would you take the upside with Bush? Would the Saints take him at #2 hands down?

Wondering what people think - seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.

 

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
I think they should add a rule that makes this possible. Each team gets a franchise tag. They should get redraft tag too. Pick one player per year to toss into the draft. As soon as he's chosen his ex team is on the clock.

I'm getting punchy draft info overload.

 
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Chaz

Footballguy
I think that almost anyone who is an all pro would be a sure thing to go #1, regardless of position.

Maybe not kickers :D

 

Bri

Footballguy
Knowing that Gates is an All-Pro, and what he's proven on the NFL stage, does he go #1 overall?

Or if you're the Texans, would you take the upside with Bush? Would the Saints take him at #2 hands down?

Wondering what people think - seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I still think a franchise RB or QB would go first. I'm not saying I agree but....Since he was considerred a project, what coach gets credit for developping him?

 

Z-Dog

Footballguy
A sure-thing all-pro TE would go #1, ahead of all the other players, b/c of the risk factor. It's the guarantee that makes the player worth so much, not the position he plays. I think every team would give away their whole draft to get a guaranteed all-pro. Think about it - you do that every year for six years, and sign FAs for every other position, and you are a superbowl caliber team.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.

I won't say TE is more important than QB/DE, but a proven great player is better than a risk.

Now, Bush may still go #1, but Gates would be a lock for the top 3. I'd take Gates #1.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
A sure-thing all-pro TE would go #1, ahead of all the other players, b/c of the risk factor. It's the guarantee that makes the player worth so much, not the position he plays. I think every team would give away their whole draft to get a guaranteed all-pro. Think about it - you do that every year for six years, and sign FAs for every other position, and you are a superbowl caliber team.
You're also probably well over the cap, but at least you've won a few Super Bowls.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
Knowing that Gates is an All-Pro, and what he's proven on the NFL stage, does he go #1 overall?

Or if you're the Texans, would you take the upside with Bush? Would the Saints take him at #2 hands down?

Wondering what people think - seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'd probably draft him around #4 or #5. In real NFL terms, how much better is he then Gonzo, Heap, and Shockey?
 
T

trader jake

Guest
bush to houston

williams to new orleans

QB of choice to tennessee

gates to new york

 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
No way Gates goes #1 overall. He is still a TE. Yes, he is good, but he is a TE.

It would be based more on need than anything. I say Gates goes to San Fran at #6, just like Vernon Davis is projected.

I doubt the Jets give up a first rounder for a TE ever again.

 

Bri

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.
Vermeil and Marty are very good regular season coaches plus Priest and LT certainly helped those teams. I don't feel like you can single out Gates+Tony G.
 
T

trader jake

Guest
No way Gates goes #1 overall. He is still a TE. Yes, he is good, but he is a TE.

It would be based more on need than anything. I say Gates goes to San Fran at #6, just like Vernon Davis is projected.

I doubt the Jets give up a first rounder for a TE ever again.
a rookie TE i agree, but the unknown would be removed in this scenerio and the jets would be foolish to pass on the sure thing for a roll of the dice at #4...even if it is "just a TE"
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.
Vermeil and Marty are very good regular season coaches plus Priest and LT certainly helped those teams. I don't feel like you can single out Gates+Tony G.
So... it takes more than one player for a team to be succesful? shocking.Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.

 

aposulli

Footballguy
Assuming there was enoguh game film on Gates to evaluate... (How much football was he playing in college?)... and knowing his measurables would be probably be around where Davis' are (except with better hands)... He should be top 2-5.

 
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Texasmouth

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.
No way does Gates get all the credit for this, Tony G either. The RB had monster seasons and they had improved QB's. Brees played lights out and Trent Green was a major upgrade over the garbage that KC had been trotting out there. Priest was the obvious reason they were so much better and he was also the reason Tony G was able to be out as a receiver so often.
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.
No way does Gates get all the credit for this, Tony G either. The RB had monster seasons and they had improved QB's. Brees played lights out and Trent Green was a major upgrade over the garbage that KC had been trotting out there. Priest was the obvious reason they were so much better and he was also the reason Tony G was able to be out as a receiver so often.
I'm not giving all the credit to either. Are you trying to say Gates didn't help Brees develop? In the 4 years between Gonzo's rookie year and the Vermiel/Green/Priest era, KC was 36-28 for a 56% winning percentage. With Marty and Gunther as HCs, Grbac as the primary QB (Gannon should have played more)

They've been 44-36 since then, for a 55% winning percentage. Grbac was a top 10 QB in 1999 and 2000. Green is better, but not by as much as people like to think.

Priest helps a lot, the OL is a very big reason for their success, but don't downplay the impact Gonzo has on the Chiefs.

 

Gangster

Footballguy
He's a great ff player....I'd get him early to mid round or after you pick up your 1st 2 starting RBs.

Rbs are the elite and after about the first 5 TEs, there are alot of mediocre TEs that will fill the position well but they will be inconsistant in scoring.

As far as if he were to be in the draft, then I would have to say #1 because he has proven himself in many ways.

 
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Borat

Footballguy
Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.
That's pretty ridiculous. You think Gates had a bigger impact on the Chargers than any player in this draft will have for his new team? That seems pretty absurd.
 

aposulli

Footballguy
(How much football was he playing in college?)
Not a single down.I'd take Gates #1 overall. Reggie Bush will probably be a game-changer, possibly an all-pro. Antonio Gates definitely is.
This is assuming you KNOW Gates will be a pro-bowler no matter what.A better way to rephrase the original question would be.... if a player entered the draft today with Antonio Gates' exact talent, where would he be drafted?

I don't think the question is... would you take him #1 if you KNEW he was going to be a pro-bowler (which somebody did ask about Larry Allen in an earlier poll)

The question I had before was... how much football did Gates play in colllege?

The answer is none, so there was no film to judge him by, which is why he went undrafted.

If NFL scouts had game film of him dominating in college, and he had measurables eqivilent of that then he would probably be a better prospect than Vernon Davis.

But to think ANY TE ever to come out of college would be drafted ahead of Reggie Bush is a bit far fetched.

Mario Williams and Leinart are better picks IMO if you need those positions.

 

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
(How much football was he playing in college?)
Not a single down.I'd take Gates #1 overall. Reggie Bush will probably be a game-changer, possibly an all-pro. Antonio Gates definitely is.
This is assuming you KNOW Gates will be a pro-bowler no matter what.A better way to rephrase the original question would be.... if a player entered the draft today with Antonio Gates' exact talent, where would he be drafted?

I don't think the question is... would you take him #1 if you KNEW he was going to be a pro-bowler (which somebody did ask about Larry Allen in an earlier poll)

The question I had before was... how much football did Gates play in colllege?

The answer is none, so there was no film to judge him by, which is why he went undrafted.

If NFL scouts had game film of him dominating in college, and he had measurables eqivilent of that then he would probably be a better prospect than Vernon Davis.

But to think ANY TE ever to come out of college would be drafted ahead of Reggie Bush is a bit far fetched.

Mario Williams and Leinart are better picks IMO if you need those positions.
But my original question was where would Gates go if he somehow was eligible for the draft, right now, with all of the knowledge we have re: Gates. This stems from a discussion with a co-worker in which I argued that Gates was by far the single most important factor in the Chargers sudden turnaround the past two years, as the Bolts were able to add someone with #1 overall value for free (draft pick wise).

 

Assani Fisher

Footballguy
No way Gates goes #1 overall. He is still a TE. Yes, he is good, but he is a TE.

It would be based more on need than anything. I say Gates goes to San Fran at #6, just like Vernon Davis is projected.

I doubt the Jets give up a first rounder for a TE ever again.
You really think that Gates has no more value than Davis at this point in time?
 

Assani Fisher

Footballguy
Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.
That's pretty ridiculous. You think Gates had a bigger impact on the Chargers than any player in this draft will have for his new team? That seems pretty absurd.
No, not at all. I'm sure a few players in this draft will have a bigger impact. The problem is we don't know who. Gates is a sure thing.
 

MrPhoenix

Ron Paul Soldier
Predicted mock draft with Gates in the draft:

1. Houston- Reggie Bush

2. New Orleans- Mario Williams

3. Tennessee- Antonio Gates

 

Bri

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.
Vermeil and Marty are very good regular season coaches plus Priest and LT certainly helped those teams. I don't feel like you can single out Gates+Tony G.
So... it takes more than one player for a team to be succesful? shocking.Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.
you're contradicting yourself
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.
Vermeil and Marty are very good regular season coaches plus Priest and LT certainly helped those teams. I don't feel like you can single out Gates+Tony G.
So... it takes more than one player for a team to be succesful? shocking.Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.
you're contradicting yourself
Takes more than one to be succesful and having a HUGE impact is contradictory?Ok then. :bye:

 
T

trader jake

Guest
bush to houston

williams to new orleans

QB of choice to tennessee

gates to new york
Predicted mock draft with Gates in the draft:

1. Houston- Reggie Bush

2. New Orleans- Mario Williams

3. Tennessee- Antonio Gates
i had gates going one pick later because tennessee is in a full rebuild. of course they could trade down with a team that needed gates and end up with a rookie QB later, but without trades i say he would go 4th overall
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Much like the Steve Hutchinson thread of similar concept a few weeks ago, I would contend that the vast majority (if not all) of the league's GMs would take someone like Gates if they KNEW he was going to be an elite player. Gates would and should be the #1 overall pick in this hypothetical situation.

 

Bri

Footballguy
...seeing as how the TE doesn't impact the game as much as a franchise QB or DE.
I'm not so sure about this one.Chargers hadn't had a winning season (above .500) since 1995 until Gates took over full time, then 12-4 and 9-7 the last two years. From 4-12 to 12-4 and IIRC, the only real difference was Gates. Sure Brees improved, but a lot of that also goes to Gates.

Chiefs have been one of the better teams since Gonzo arrived.
Vermeil and Marty are very good regular season coaches plus Priest and LT certainly helped those teams. I don't feel like you can single out Gates+Tony G.
So... it takes more than one player for a team to be succesful? shocking.Nobody who has watched the Chargers the last few years can disupte the fact that Gates has had a HUGE impact on that team. Maybe not Peytonesque, but more than I see any player in this draft having, except MAYBE Reggie Bush.
you're contradicting yourself
Takes more than one to be succesful and having a HUGE impact is contradictory?Ok then. :bye:
doesn't matter
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
Predicted mock draft with Gates in the draft:

1. Houston- Reggie Bush

2. New Orleans- Mario Williams

3. Tennessee- Antonio Gates
Brees would lobby hard for Gates.I happen to like Zack Hilton, but if Gates is available, they don't pass on him.

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
No chance in the world the Saints wouldn't rather have Antonio Gates than the 2nd pick.

I could see an argument being made for Bush over Gates, although I don't think it's a great one.

 

onionsack

Footballguy
Much like the Steve Hutchinson thread of similar concept a few weeks ago, I would contend that the vast majority (if not all) of the league's GMs would take someone like Gates if they KNEW he was going to be an elite player. Gates would and should be the #1 overall pick in this hypothetical situation.
I disagree. Why would any GM pass up the chance to get their hands on the next Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Ki-Jana Carter etc. :hophead:
 

rabidfireweasel

Footballguy
A sure-thing all-pro TE would go #1, ahead of all the other players, b/c of the risk factor. It's the guarantee that makes the player worth so much, not the position he plays. I think every team would give away their whole draft to get a guaranteed all-pro. Think about it - you do that every year for six years, and sign FAs for every other position, and you are a superbowl caliber team.
No- you would have a FF champion, not an NFL champion. This sounds a lot like the Herschel Walker deal. You would probably have a crappy NFL team with all your money tied up in 7 players. You need good players playing for cheap money: usually that means 2nd, third and fourth roun picks. When the Patriots were winning 3 Superbowls in 5 years, they were doing it on the premise that they could pick apart your weaknesses- i.e.- your guys 30-50. Having said all that, Gates would still go #1. He is not just a pro-bowler, but in his last two years, has been one of the most dynamic offensive game changers to ever play TE.

 

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