HYPOCRISY: Democrats/MSM Called 2016 Trump Election Win Illegitimate (1/19 23:24 PST) (1 Viewer)

[GordonGekko]

TOPIC NARRATIVE:

Democrats and the MSM publicly called the 2016 Trump election win as illegitimate. But now in 2020, in an election that had to make major adjustments due to the pandemic where massive legal disputes were filed over absentee ballots, any claims of an illegitimate Biden election victory is completely censored.

Why is one tolerated and the other not?

QUESTIONS TO RAISE OPEN DISCUSSION:

Do you believe there is hypocrisy regarding the Democratic Party and left leaning MSM response to Trump in 2020 regarding disputing the election versus their disputes/claims/accusations made during the 2016 Trump election win? Also hypocrisy regarding the challenges to George W Bush's electoral votes?

Do you believe there is hypocrisy in the left leaning MSM and Big Social media in allowing those 2016 accusations to remain untouched while 2020 claims have been met with deletions, bans, fact checking warnings and censorship?

VIDEO: YouTube CENSORSHIP Hypocrisy EXPOSED: 2016 vs 2020 Election  •Dec 16, 2020

YouTube recently announced they will be removing videos that claim “fraud or errors” changed the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. Meanwhile, videos with Hillary Clinton falsely claiming the 2016 election was “stolen” by the Russians will not be affected by the policy. In summary - You’re only allowed to criticize or cast doubt upon the outcome of U.S. elections if you’re a Democrat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Eg6Tz7228

VIDEO: Flashback: Trump's Presidency Is Illegitimate, Democrats And Media Say •Nov 19, 2020

A compilation of times media outlets and Democrats said that Trump's 2016 win was illegitimate and the result of Russian interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK6xmm6R7Bk

VIDEO: Multiple Objections Raised Over Electoral Votes For Trump •Jan 6, 2017

Several Representatives rise to object to electoral votes cast for Donald Trump during a joint session of congress to count and certify the votes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvc4Ht3c2dk

VIDEO: FLASHBACK: Hillary Clinton repeatedly called Trump 'illegitimate' president | SUPERCUT  •Jul 24, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO-Sw8CCxxY

VIDEO: DNC sues Russia, Trump ‘co-conspirators’ over 2016 election meddling •Apr 20, 2018

A lawsuit filed by the Democratic National Committee alleges that people close to President Trump and Russian entities conspired to spread documents that were stolen from the DNC to bolster the Trump campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3zh1LGBpx4

Direct Headline: Pelosi’s tweet declaring 2016 election was 'hijacked' resurfaces By Joseph A. Wulfsohn 1/13/2021

https://www.fox29.com/news/pelosis-2016-tweet-calling-on-congress-to-act-resurfaces

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080

VIDEO: Joe Biden agrees with woman who says President Trump is an illegitimate president •Nov 12, 2020

When a woman claimed President Trump was an illegitimate president and the crowd cheered, Joe Biden did not correct them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRpqUskUfOw

VIDEO: A Message for Electors to Unite For America  •Dec 14, 2016

They're not asking you to vote for Hillary. 37 Electors can be American heroes by voting their conscience for a real leader. A new celebrity PSA is calling on the Electoral College not to vote for Donald Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z0iuWh3sek

Direct Headline: SHORT MEMORY? Pelosi and Dems accused of hypocrisy for objecting to Bush’s 2004 win – yet slamming recent GOP challenges.  By Fionnuala O'Leary Dec 31 2020, 16:16 ET

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2060047/pelosi-democrats-hypocrisy-objecting-bush-win-gop-challenges/

https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/12/Screen-Shot-2020-12-31-at-4.12.52-PM.png?strip=all&w=960

 

[GordonGekko]

PARAPHRASED CONTENT FROM ALL ARTICLES/VIDEOS TO REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH SINGLE USER FBG FORUM POSTING GUIDELINES:

( As Per 1/4/21 12:33 PST,  https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/790107-healing-and-moving-forward-thoughts/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-23172408 )

Nancy Pelosi @SpeakerXPelosi

Our election was clearly hijacked.... There is no real question.... Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.

9:44 AM · May 16, 2017

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080

".....in 2015/2016....the Obama Administration via intelligence and law-enforcement agencies.... spied on the opposition party ( Trump) campaign.... Officials pushed the dodgy Steele dossier.... before the FISA court... without completely revealing... it was paid for by Hillary Clinton’s campaign...."

"....(Neera Tanden, President-elect Joe Biden’s choice to head the Office of Management and Budget a mere five days after the 2016 election) ....'I will not accede to this. I will resist' ..... Democrats proudly took to calling themselves 'the Resistance'... openly suggesting the Trump administration was morally equivalent to the pro-Hitler Vichy regime in France....."

"......leading Democrats — Hillary Clinton, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, the late Rep. John Lewis, Joe Biden, Jimmy Carter — all openly called Trump an “illegitimate” president..... For three years, Democrats financed and advanced the Russia-collusion hoax without finding or producing any viable evidence..... except for the discredited Steele dossier...."

".....(House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi on Russian hacking concerns for the 2016 election)....'That's why people have some level of dismay today on the vote ... and about our Electoral College.....How much is actually known about the foreign disruption of our election?'....."

"......U.S. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas plans to file a public objection to electoral votes submitted from her state......, also reported possible challenges ..... from fellow Democrats Ed Perlmutter of Colorado, Bobby Scott of Virginia, John Conyers of Michigan and Jamie Raskin of Maryland....."

"......Rep. James McGovern (D-Mass.) protested Alabama’s electoral votes... by citing Russian interference in the presidential election....other objections came from.... Maryland Rep. Jamie Raskin and Arizona Rep. Raúl Grijalva....."

"....(Colorado GOP Sen. Cory Gardner stated the Democratic House members as hypocritical) .... Democrats criticized Trump during his campaign when the GOP nominee suggested he wouldn’t accept the outcome of the election if he lost..... (implying Democrats did exactly what they criticized Trump of saying he would do. He only said it, they actually did it) ..."

".....(House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi supported the rationale of the protesting lawmakers in 2016)...."... they are concerned about Russian influence on our election'.....”

"......Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Ohio Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones contested the Ohio electoral votes in 2005..... that guaranteed George W. Bush’s reelection..... They spent a full two hours arguing that voting irregularities could have tipped the election in Bush’s favor.... but failed to completely convince their colleagues.... to reverse the outcome......"

".....The elections of 1876, 1888, 1960 and 2000 were among the most contentious in American history.... on Election Day 1876, there was widespread voter intimidation against African-American Republican voters throughout the South... in Florida, Louisiana and South Carolina....so Congress voted to create a bipartisan commission of 15 members of Congress and the Supreme Court justices to determine how to allocate the electors from the three disputed states....( Louisiana’s electoral vote for Rutherford B. Hayes).. who proceeded to join an 8-7 Republican majority that awarded all the disputed electoral votes to Hayes.....(1888, Democratic President Grover Cleveland...ran for reelection... ballots in most states were printed and distributed by political parties and cast publicly.... certain voters, known as “floaters,” were known to sell their votes to willing buyers.... were promised funds and instructions for how to divide receptive/willing voters into “blocks of five” to receive bribes in exchange for voting ....(1960 election, Republican Vice President Richard Nixon against Democratic U.S. Senator John F. Kennedy).... Kennedy defeating Nixon by only 100,000 votes ... a clearly less than 0.2 percent difference....many Republicans cried foul...and fixated on two places in particular – southern Texas and Chicago..... where Mayor Richard Daley allegedly ....churned out just enough votes to give Kennedy the state of Illinois....(2000 Election Day, the national media discovered that a “butterfly ballot,” a punch card ballot... with a design that violated actual Florida state law...had completely confused thousands of voters in Palm Beach County)... those voting for Gore unknowingly voted for another candidate or voted for two candidates.... Gore lost the state to Bush by 537 votes .... and, in losing Florida, lost the general election..... U.S. Supreme Court ruled Congress had set a deadline of that date for states to choose electors.... so there was no more time to count votes...."

".....(2020 Election, modifications for absentee ballots, pandemic adjustments) ......hundreds of cases were filed in more than 44 states....GOP lawyers have scored several defensive wins related to mail in ballots.... such as keeping North Carolina’s witness requirement ....and keeping in place limitations on third parties harvesting in Florida, Minnesota and Michigan....."

".....(Florida and Texas 2020) a federal appeals court sided with GOP state leaders.... who passed a law requiring people convicted of felonies to pay off fines before they could actually vote.....and stopped efforts to make absentee voting available......to those who fear coronavirus exposure....."

"..... George W. Bush in both 2000 and 2004.... House Democrats objected to the electoral votes..."

".....Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer of California and Rep Stephanie Tubbs.... objected to Bush's 2004 electoral votes in Ohio... back in 2005... and it forced the chambers to leave their joint session... for a two-hour debate ....on whether to reject Ohio's electoral votes...and Pelosi praised (those) challenges....'Today we are witnessing Democracy at true work.... This isn't... frivolous.... This debate is very fundamental to our democracy'....."

".....(Former CIA Director John Brennan briefed former President Obama).... on Hillary Clinton’s strategy to tie the Trump campaign to Russia hackers..... as a means of distracting the general public from her private email server scandal... before the 2016 election.... according to newly declassified secret handwritten documents/CIA memos...."

"....( 2016, the Clinton campaign and the DNC contracted/paid Fusion GPS and former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele).... to compile the controversial Russian dossier.... which meant to draw a connection between the Trump campaign and Russia ...."

 

[GordonGekko]

CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL:

VIDEO: WATCH: Protesters disrupt Wisconsin presidential electors' Trump vote •Dec 19, 2016

Electors vote to certify Wisconsin's 10 electoral votes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h38QAO60SI

VIDEO: Scientists urge Clinton campaign to challenge election ... •Nov 23, 2016

Hillary Clinton's campaign is being urged by a number of top computer scientists to call for a recount of vote totals in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6yrnbDaBeE

VIDEO: Some Democrats still refusing to accept election results •Nov 23, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBnwUZr_1Q

VIDEO: Dobbs: Democrats are trying to contest the 2016 election again •Feb 8, 2017

FBN’s Lou Dobbs on the Democrats obstructing President Trump’s cabinet nominees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwMGjszRZZM

VIDEO: Claims of voter fraud during election •Oct 18, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzjgH4vNUy0

VIDEO: Hillary will not rule out challenging 2016 election...•Sep 18, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkiVulEy7N8

VIDEO: Elizabeth Warren says 2016 Democratic primary was rigged •Nov 2, 2017

When asked by PBS NewsHour’s Judy Woodruff whether she thought the election was rigged, Warren said: “I think it was.” This comes as a book excerpt from Donna Brazile, former interim acting chair of the Democratic National Committee, was published by Politico. Brazile points to emails leaked from a Russian hack of a DNC server and made public by Wikileaks, suggesting that top Democratic officials favored Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders and details how Clinton’s campaign was helping to finance the committee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBYnJh45WS8

VIDEO: Protests, Objections Disrupt Final Count Of Electoral Votes - Trump Declared President •Jan 6, 2017

Despite objections from several Representatives and outbursts from protesters in the gallery, Vice-President Joe Biden completes the counting of electoral votes and declares that Donald Trump has been elected President of the United States effective January 20, 2017 for a four year term....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-4tkOTZWH4

VIDEO: Clinton: Vote so 'Trump can't steal' election •Aug 20, 2020

Hillary Clinton returned to the Democratic National Convention stage virtually and issued a stark warning about the 2020 election. Clinton urged Democrats not to sit the election out so Donald Trump can’t “sneak or steal his way to victory.” (Aug. 19)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8E5zWFpe4

 

[GordonGekko]

CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL:

VIDEO: Clinton campaign, Democrats funded Trump dossier.... •Oct 25, 2017

Prepared by a former British spy, the 35-page document alleges the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians, and includes uncorroborated, salacious allegations about Trump himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOyrQ0ofe3Q

VIDEO: Declassified docs show CIA briefed Obama on Hillary's plan to link Trump to Russia •Oct 6, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFVMttEyLZs

Direct Headline: DNI Releases CIA Documents on Clinton’s ‘Plan’ to Tie Trump Campaign to Russia By Mairead McArdle October 6, 2020

https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html

Direct Headline: Democrats are now reaping the whirlwind of their 2016 election ‘Resistance’ By Michael Barone December 4, 2020

https://nypost.com/2020/12/04/democrats-reaping-the-whirlwind-of-their-2016-election-resistance/

Direct Headline: Trump's Electoral College Victory Challenged by Democrats By Reuters On 1/6/17 at 1:45 PM EST

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-democrats-house-democrats-electoral-college-election-2016-539801

Direct Headline: House Democrats fail to muster support to challenge Trump’s Electoral College win

By KYLE CHENEY 01/06/2017 02:20 PM EST

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294

Direct Headline: Four Times the Results of a Presidential Election Were Contested

“Rigged” may not be the way to describe them, but there were definitely some shenanigans happening

By Robert Speel, The Conversation  November 4, 2020

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/rigged-vote-four-us-presidential-elections-contested-results-180961033/

Direct Headline: Courts view GOP fraud claims skeptically as Democrats score key legal victories over mail voting

By Elise Viebeck September 28, 2020 at 12:57 p.m. PDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts-voting-fraud-claims-republicans/2020/09/28/ceff1184-fda2-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html

Direct Headline: Changes to absentee/mail-in voting procedures in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020

https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_to_absentee/mail-in_voting_procedures_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

 

[GordonGekko]

ANALYSIS:

You don't have much moral high ground to stand on in 2020, to dispute and censor Donald Trump's claims to an "illegitimate election" when key players in the Democratic Party and the left leaning MSM did so in 2016.

In 2016,

- Hillary Clinton won't stop saying Russia interference ( in an investigation she and the DNC paid for no less) and that Trump's Presidency is illegitimate. She even came out in 2020 urging people to vote to say if Trump wins, he'll be stealing another election

- Obama 'allegedly' spied on Trump's campaign

- There were open protests and challenges against Electoral votes for Trump, they were called necessary for democracy by Pelosi

- Pelosi says the election was hijacked and it's left alone by Big Social Media

- Elizabeth Warren comes out to say the 2016 DNC primaries were rigged, and lends support to the claims that Clinton turned the DNC into a giant money laundering operation ( You have Democrats saying Democrats are rigging votes, and Democrats saying Republicans are rigging votes, but you can't have Republicans saying anything all?)

- We are reminded that POTUS elections were contested four other times in American history (1876, 1888, 1960 and 2000) prior to 2016/2020, Trump is not shaking new ground here with his claims

- Celebrities from Hollywood are openly lobbying via video to ask electors NOT to vote for Donald Trump

- Some protests break out in specific states regarding electoral votes for Trump

- Elements of Big Tech call for 2016 recounts in in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania

- Some Democratic politicians form a "Resistance" calling Trump's election run mirroring 'Pro Hitler'

- We are reminded the Democrats opposed George W Bush's electoral votes in 2004

- The DNC actually filed a lawsuit claiming Russian interference in the election

- And we see the beginning stages of the 2 year long Mueller investigation, which cost taxpayers 35 million dollars, which simply refused to let go of the idea of Russian interference in American politics to cast doubt on Trump's 2016 election victory

According to the new rules of modern politics, backed by the left leaning MSM, Big Tech, Big Social Media, Big Education, Hollywood and the DNC - You are only allowed to criticize and have real doubt about the outcome of U.S. elections if you are a Democrat.

 

[jon_mx]

Unfortinately those now in charge do not care about free speech, or at least not enough to say or do anything about it.  It is really disappointing.  But we must accept politically-motivated censorship by our new corporate overlords.  Free speech was once valued as our most important right.  Welcome to the matrix.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to put together a thread? 

Seems like a lot of work. Several of us would be interested in debate and discussion, but the current formatting makes it nigh on impossible. When we do respond and try and flesh out discussion, it goes nowhere.

If you want discussion, engage the reader. If you just want a soap box, then at least let us know that is your preferred style.

 

[The Z Machine]

If you just want a soap box, then at least let us know that is your preferred style.

I think we know the answer here. 

 

[Godsbrother]

You went through all of that to convince us that politicians of both parties are hypocrites?    Yeah we knew that already.

Now can you put together some evidence that water is wet?

 

[glvsav37]

You went through all of that to convince us that politicians of both parties are hypocrites?    Yeah we knew that already.

Now can you put together some evidence that water is wet?

If this was true, do you really think we would have the citizen vs citizen divide we currently do in this country? Or is it really a large percentage of voters on either side outright ignoring the facts bc they are being spun by these hypocrites....umm I mean "political leaders"? If we all know they are hypocrites, why do people follow them so blindly and accept this type of behavior? 

I'll be honest, these days, I would think you would have a hard time convincing some people that water is indeed wet if it wasn't blue. 

 

[rcam]

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to put together a thread? 

Seems like a lot of work. Several of us would be interested in debate and discussion, but the current formatting makes it nigh on impossible. When we do respond and try and flesh out discussion, it goes nowhere.

If you want discussion, engage the reader. If you just want a soap box, then at least let us know that is your preferred style.

Meh, the posts are like a middle school student trying to write a paper by cutting and pasting semi-tangentially related link descriptions from a Google search to hit a word count. I went through one of these a while back to see if it was worth my time to respond. It was basically a bunch of links and sound bites cobbled together trying to fit a narrative without any sort of context while taking plenty of quotations out of context. The reason there is little to no discussion surrounding them is that they are white noise.

 

[squistion]

Meh, the posts are like a middle school student trying to write a paper by cutting and pasting semi-tangentially related link descriptions from a Google search to hit a word count. I went through one of these a while back to see if it was worth my time to respond. It was basically a bunch of links and sound bites cobbled together trying to fit a narrative without any sort of context while taking plenty of quotations out of context. The reason there is little to no discussion surrounding them is that they are white noise.

You got it.  

 

[HellToupee]

@GordonGekkoThey don’t care about the hypocrisy. It’s all about rooting for their team

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

You got it.  

Says the guy that spent four years copying and pasting tweets with no context.  You can't make this stuff up

 

[Captain Cranks]

@GordonGekkoThey don’t care about the hypocrisy. It’s all about rooting for their team

Sense any irony here?

 

[GordonGekko]

Several of us would be interested in debate and discussion,.....

If you want discussion, engage the reader. If you just want a soap box, then at least let us know that is your preferred style.

TOPIC NARRATIVE:

Democrats and the MSM publicly called the 2016 Trump election win as illegitimate. But now in 2020, in an election that had to make major adjustments due to the pandemic where massive legal disputes were filed over absentee ballots, any claims of an illegitimate Biden election victory is completely censored.

Why is one tolerated and the other not?

QUESTIONS TO RAISE OPEN DISCUSSION:

Do you believe there is hypocrisy regarding the Democratic Party and left leaning MSM response to Trump in 2020 regarding disputing the election versus their disputes/claims/accusations made during the 2016 Trump election win? Also hypocrisy regarding the challenges to George W Bush's electoral votes?

Do you believe there is hypocrisy in the left leaning MSM and Big Social media in allowing those 2016 accusations to remain untouched while 2020 claims have been met with deletions, bans, fact checking warnings and censorship?

*****

OK, let's have a discussion. Is there any aspect of this issue you'd like to discuss first?

I listed topic questions in the original post to push some direction for a discussion but I'll post them above/here again. We can discuss those two and the following to start:

- Do you believe there was Russian interference in the 2016 election for the benefit of Donald Trump?

- If the answer is Yes, why did the Mueller report and Steele document NOT reveal something tangible that would have forced Trump out of office?

- If the answer is No, do you believe Big Social Media should lose Section 230 protection? ( i.e. for allowing disinformation about election fraud in 2016, but claiming they will censor it fully in 2020)

- Do you believe it was acceptable for Nancy Pelosi, especially given her long tenure, key position and platform into the daily media cycle, to claim the 2016 election was hijacked when there is no irrefutable evidence to prove as such? 

(Lefties here have to face a certain reality. For months now, you guys have been saying there is no proof of widespread voter fraud in 2020 and if there was, something would be revealed by now. Literally after Trump was elected, the DNC pushed for impeachment and ran out the Russia related investigation for over 2 years at the cost of 35 million of our tax dollars. How can no irrefutable evidence exist today and have that be valid yet after massive investigations post 2016, that irrefutable evidence does not exist to prove the allegations against Trump/Russia?)

Let me know if you have different questions you'd like to discuss.

(  I also welcome @Captain Cranks @Godsbrother @The Z Machine @squistion as well as the others posting here to explore these questions I just asked @John Maddens Lunchbox as well )

 

[GordonGekko]

Meh, the posts are like a middle school student trying to write a paper by cutting and pasting semi-tangentially related link descriptions from a Google search to hit a word count. I went through one of these a while back to see if it was worth my time to respond. It was basically a bunch of links and sound bites cobbled together trying to fit a narrative without any sort of context while taking plenty of quotations out of context. The reason there is little to no discussion surrounding them is that they are white noise.

Let me know which post and let's go over it exhaustively. You can bring up your points and I'll bring up my counter points. Go ahead and bump the thread in question with your detailed concerns and what specific context you are asking be more clarified and I'll address each point exhaustively.

I have no problem with further debate and introspective discussion.

You wanted to speak up. That's fine. I want to live in a world where people will and can disagree with me. Now step up.

 

[renesauz]

Maybe I'm off base, but I don't remember 2016 like this.

There were plenty of questions asking if Trump would have won WITHOUT help from nefarious sources, without election interference from Russia. There wasn't a whole lot (I won't say none, but it certainly wasn't remotely close to mainstream) of talk about Trump having NOT won the electoral votes necessary. 

I think you're trying too hard to compare apples/oranges here. We didn't have anywhere remotely close to the number of Americans claiming Trump didn't win that we have claiming Biden didn't.....which is startling considering Trump actually lost the popular vote.

 

[GoBirds]

@GordonGekkoThey don’t care about the hypocrisy. It’s all about rooting for their team

It’s always “different this time”.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Says the guy that spent four years copying and pasting tweets with no context.  You can't make this stuff up

Was thinking the same thing. Crazy

 

[HellToupee]

Maybe I'm off base, but I don't remember 2016 like this.

There were plenty of questions asking if Trump would have won WITHOUT help from nefarious sources, without election interference from Russia. There wasn't a whole lot (I won't say none, but it certainly wasn't remotely close to mainstream) of talk about Trump having NOT won the electoral votes necessary. 

I think you're trying too hard to compare apples/oranges here. We didn't have anywhere remotely close to the number of Americans claiming Trump didn't win that we have claiming Biden didn't.....which is startling considering Trump actually lost the popular vote.

I don’t think you’re remembering correctly. Google is your friend . Full credit to Biden for putting and end to the fiasco in early January 2017 .

 

[parasaurolophus]

This seems to fit in this thread. Sorry if it is one of the OP's links. I didnt read. 

 

[Green and Gold]

There were plenty of sore losers to be had in the liberal world in 2017, just like there is the same of conservatives in 2021. Just goes to show you were are really just all the same. There is no moral high ground for either side.

The biggest difference is that Hilary conceded quickly, and Biden shut down the whiners afterward. That's a pretty big difference.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Unfortinately those now in charge do not care about free speech, or at least not enough to say or do anything about it.  It is really disappointing.  But we must accept politically-motivated censorship by our new corporate overlords.  Free speech was once valued as our most important right.  Welcome to the matrix.

So was a peaceful transfer of power and respecting the will of the people through democratically held elections.

 

[AAABatteries]

You went through all of that to convince us that politicians of both parties are hypocrites?    Yeah we knew that already.

Now can you put together some evidence that water is wet?

Science is defined as the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. Over the years, scientists have worked very hard to give meaning to things in this world. Sometimes, scientific reasoning can strike up controversies between other scientists and intellectuals. One may think, what better place to turn to with scientific controversies than a college campus? So of course, I turned to Wheaton’s students and faculty to answer the loaded question: Is water wet? 

Out of the total number of students and faculty members surveyed, 48% said that water is wet, leaving the remaining 52% to believe that water is not wet. 

Some arguments in support of water being wet include: “What is water if not wet?” This reasoning is straightforward and understandable. A detailed argument was made by Erica Drufva ’23, supporting the idea that water is wet. “Water is wet because when something is wet, it has water on it and on a molecular level, water molecules are bonded on top of each other, therefore water is wet.” An extension to the previous argument that a couple of students brought up was that one water molecule alone is not wet, but when water molecules touch each other, they make each other wet. This causes a bunch of water molecules together (which one would classify as water) to be wet. 

There were also many persuasive reasons that water should not be considered wet. “Things that can be wet can also be dry. Water can’t switch between dry and wet so it can be neither,” said Eva Danielson ’22. It is also important to note that wet is an adjective while water is a noun. An argument built off of wet being a description is, “wet is a description of things that liquid touches. A shirt can get wet, but the water itself is not wet. Anything in contact with water is thus wet, but water itself cannot be deemed as ‘wet,’” said Sophie Clarkin ’23.

“Wet is a description for water. If water were wet, you could replace the word water with wet and sentences would still make sense. But it doesn’t. You don’t drink a glass of wet, you drink a glass of water,” said Lauren Chiouetta ’21. 

“I don’t think water is wet because ‘wet’ means being covered or saturated with a liquid. Water is not that, it in itself is a liquid, but it cannot be covered or saturated in itself,” said Lillie Shepherd ’20.

Even after hearing input from Wheaton’s campus, whether or not water is wet still seemed to be quite the toss-up. I had to do some research of my own. Interestingly enough, when I researched ‘Is water wet?’ the very first result was a very definitive answer:

“Water isn’t wet by itself, but it makes other materials wet when it sticks to the surface of them.” So there you have it, folks, water itself is not wet according to the internet.

I encourage anyone reading this to ponder controversies in this world that may not have a definitive answer because taking action is how curiosity can lead to discovery.

THERE IS NO PEPE SILVIA!!!!

 

[GordonGekko]

The biggest difference is that Hilary conceded quickly, and Biden shut down the whiners afterward. That's a pretty big difference.

The Steele Dossier and the perils of political insurance policies

By Jonathan Turley, 12/22/18 10:30 AM EST

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/422592-steeles-curious-comments-suggest-dossier-was-insurance-plan

Ex-British spy paid $168,000 for Trump dossier, U.S. firm discloses

By Mark Hosenball

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-dossier/ex-british-spy-paid-168000-for-trump-dossier-u-s-firm-discloses-idUSKBN1D15XH

Here's What We Know About How Much the Mueller Report Cost

Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy, But Stops Short of Exonerating Trump on Obstruction: Attorney General

By Abby Vesoulis Updated: July 24, 2019 12:45 PM

https://time.com/5557693/mueller-report-cost/

Warren, Klobuchar, Wyden, and Pocan Investigate Vulnerabilities and Shortcomings of Election Technology Industry with Ties to Private Equity

Three private equity-owned election technology vendors serve 90% of eligible voters but fail to sufficiently innovate, improve, and protect deteriorating voting systems; Election security experts have noted for years that our nation's voting systems and election infrastructure are under serious threat / December 10, 2019

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity

Changes to absentee/mail-in voting procedures in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020

https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_to_absentee/mail-in_voting_procedures_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

************

I would not call Clinton continuing to say to the press multiple times over years, and even to this day, that Trump was an illegitimate POTUS, then pushing for the Steele Dossier ( cost 5.6 million, but only to the portion that was uncovered, some estimates say 12 million, Podesta lied about the Clinton Campaign funding the Dossier. Those funds came from contributions from citizens expecting that money to be spent in good faith) that turned up nothing and then the Mueller Report, which spent 2 and a half years and anywhere from 32-35 million dollars of OUR TAX MONEY to come up with a Nothing Burger. The Steele Dossier and Mueller Report dominated the daily media cycle for YEARS. And the Mueller Report cost doesn't factor in the opportunity cost in money/time/resources/personnel nor the expenditure to mount a defense, that also came from tax dollars.

Trump said he had concerns with Dominion and with absentee ballots. FORTY FOUR STATES had lawsuits regarding mail in ballots prior to the 2020 election over adjustments to the pandemic. Trump had more than fair reasons to question the safety of the election. Close to 90 percent of all states agreed with him based on the ensuing legal battles. Ranking DNC power hitters Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren went forward to call Dominion systems as vulnerable and posing a threat to our voting and democracy. Lots of woke cancel culture lefty lawyers on this site who will now go full crickets. Why did the DNC sent a ranking actual POTUS contender in Klobuchar to spearhead this? Because if the DNC lost Georgia in 2020, they would plan to contest the results. They were creating a foothold and narrative for possible future litigation. If the DNC has problems with Dominion, why can't the RNC? Stacey Abrams literally accused SOS Raffensperger of Georgia of voter suppression and demanded he resign during the Georgia primaries when the DVS units were failing and had massive logistical problems. But we should all pretend none of that happened since the MSM wants to suppress that. So Klobuchar and Warren, actual contenders, and DNC Georgia hero Abrams don't believe the elections are safe, but Donald Trump is evil because he thinks and says the same things?

There was no concession, from the minute Trump was inaugurated, the DNC pushed forward whatever means possible to try to force him out of office. They literally sued to say the election was corrupted by Russia.

I know Obama is some kind of political deity to some here so what if Obama got treated this way? Would you call that a concession if the minute he stepped into office, he would spend 2 and a half years defending himself, at 35 million of our direct tax dollars no less, against claims that were never actually proven. If he faced multiple calls saying he was illegitimate, had Kathy Griffin post a picture with his severed mock up fake head, had celebrities make videos to ask electors to vote differently, had elements of Big Tech demanding a recount in multiple states, be called a Pro Hitler type campaign and found out your entire campaign could have been spied on by the opposition, the same opposition who are openly acknowledged to cheating Bernie Sanders out of the 2016 DNC ticket and engaged in the largest single act of modern money laundering since the Pablo Escobar era.  Most of you would be up in arms if Obama got treated that way. In no way would you believe the RNC conceded anything if they did all that.

And what did I say before?

According to the new rules of modern politics, backed by the left leaning MSM, Big Tech, Big Social Media, Big Education, Hollywood and the DNC - You are only allowed to criticize and have real doubt about the outcome of U.S. elections if you are a Democrat.

 

[Green and Gold]

Hey, my only point was that Hilary officially conceded. She never attacked specific states and told them to find the votes she needed. I'm with you on the liberal sore loser stuff, it was all over Fox news how Democrats were whining about a fair election, they need to suck it up, there was no fraud, etc, etc, similar to the Republican whining this year.

The problem with these "Hypocrisy!" messages is that they always apply to both sides.

 

[squistion]

Hey, my only point was that Hilary officially conceded. She never attacked specific states and told them to find the votes she needed. I'm with you on the liberal sore loser stuff, it was all over Fox news how Democrats were whining about a fair election, they need to suck it up, there was no fraud, etc, etc, similar to the Republican whining this year.

The problem with these "Hypocrisy!" messages is that they always apply to both sides.

Nor did she initiate any lawsuits to overturn the election results in those states. 

 

[CentralPA]

 

[GordonGekko]

Hey, my only point was that Hilary officially conceded.....

Hillary Clinton says ‘many, many, many people’ are urging her to run for president in 2020

Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton speaks during an event at the Southbank Centre in London on Nov. 10, 2019. “I’d never say never to anything,” Clinton told a British radio interviewer when asked if she would run for president in 2020. (Simon Dawson/Reuters)

By Felicia Sonmez and  Robert Costa November 12, 2019 at 11:46 p.m. UTC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-says-many-many-many-people-are-urging-her-to-run-for-president-in-2020/2019/11/12/ec690f66-059d-11ea-ac12-3325d49eacaa_story.html

******

Clinton's strategy was to get Trump impeached and convicted and run again in 2020 as the person who was cheated out of the 2016 election. It was never a real concession, hence why you hear the same "tagline" of "illegitimate President"

She was so arrogant that she had preemptively set up celebrations for victory before Election Day and so blindsided and destroyed that she couldn't even go to face her supporters. The same arrogance that told her she could keep using her Blackberry on a private server when everyone in DHS/Secret Service told her not to do it. The same arrogance that gave Debbie Wasserman Schwartz a job on her campaign immediately after DWS was fired from the DNC for setting up the most comprehensive money laundering operation ever seen in modern politics. The same arrogance over Benghazi. The same arrogance where she and Good Old Bill basically sold overnight stays at the White House for money.

She was arrogant enough to believe a six person hearsay chain from a single phone call was going to torpedo Trump forever and make her the Comeback Queen.

It was many things, it was no concession. If Obama got treated the way Trump was treated, most of you lefties would be crawling up the walls now.

OK, let's say you were a cop and chasing me. And I shout, I give up! I give up!  And you stop and realize my words and my hands are not doing the same thing. Then I take my Glock 26 and blow off the top of you skull. Your face turns into a pink mist. Then as you barely limp away, I keep firing. I reload 34 more times. Dumping hundreds of rounds downrange at you. And I keep shouting, I give up! I give up!

Would you find comfort that I technically conceded with a bunch of words?

Don't get me wrong, I get your point, I respect your free speech, I understand your position, but words and deeds are two different things.

 

[squistion]

Hillary Clinton says ‘many, many, many people’ are urging her to run for president in 2020

Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton speaks during an event at the Southbank Centre in London on Nov. 10, 2019. “I’d never say never to anything,” Clinton told a British radio interviewer when asked if she would run for president in 2020. (Simon Dawson/Reuters)

By Felicia Sonmez and  Robert Costa November 12, 2019 at 11:46 p.m. UTC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-says-many-many-many-people-are-urging-her-to-run-for-president-in-2020/2019/11/12/ec690f66-059d-11ea-ac12-3325d49eacaa_story.html

******

Clinton's strategy was to get Trump impeached and convicted and run again in 2020 as the person who was cheated out of the 2016 election. It was never a real concession, hence why you hear the same "tagline" of "illegitimate President"

'Clinton's strategy was to get Trump impeached and convicted and run again in 2020 as the person who was cheated out of the 2016 election. "

There is no evidence of that strategy. None. And saying she would not rule out running in 2020 doesn't change that. 

 

[Redwes25]

Says the guy that spent four years copying and pasting tweets with no context.  You can't make this stuff up

Honestly, he has spent more than 4 years doing that.  

 

[renesauz]

The Steele Dossier and the perils of political insurance policies

By Jonathan Turley, 12/22/18 10:30 AM EST

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/422592-steeles-curious-comments-suggest-dossier-was-insurance-plan

Ex-British spy paid $168,000 for Trump dossier, U.S. firm discloses

By Mark Hosenball

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-dossier/ex-british-spy-paid-168000-for-trump-dossier-u-s-firm-discloses-idUSKBN1D15XH

Here's What We Know About How Much the Mueller Report Cost

Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy, But Stops Short of Exonerating Trump on Obstruction: Attorney General

By Abby Vesoulis Updated: July 24, 2019 12:45 PM

https://time.com/5557693/mueller-report-cost/

Warren, Klobuchar, Wyden, and Pocan Investigate Vulnerabilities and Shortcomings of Election Technology Industry with Ties to Private Equity

Three private equity-owned election technology vendors serve 90% of eligible voters but fail to sufficiently innovate, improve, and protect deteriorating voting systems; Election security experts have noted for years that our nation's voting systems and election infrastructure are under serious threat / December 10, 2019

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity

Changes to absentee/mail-in voting procedures in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020

https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_to_absentee/mail-in_voting_procedures_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

************

I would not call Clinton continuing to say to the press multiple times over years, and even to this day, that Trump was an illegitimate POTUS, then pushing for the Steele Dossier ( cost 5.6 million, but only to the portion that was uncovered, some estimates say 12 million, Podesta lied about the Clinton Campaign funding the Dossier. Those funds came from contributions from citizens expecting that money to be spent in good faith) that turned up nothing and then the Mueller Report, which spent 2 and a half years and anywhere from 32-35 million dollars of OUR TAX MONEY to come up with a Nothing Burger. The Steele Dossier and Mueller Report dominated the daily media cycle for YEARS. And the Mueller Report cost doesn't factor in the opportunity cost in money/time/resources/personnel nor the expenditure to mount a defense, that also came from tax dollars.

Trump said he had concerns with Dominion and with absentee ballots. FORTY FOUR STATES had lawsuits regarding mail in ballots prior to the 2020 election over adjustments to the pandemic. Trump had more than fair reasons to question the safety of the election. Close to 90 percent of all states agreed with him based on the ensuing legal battles. Ranking DNC power hitters Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren went forward to call Dominion systems as vulnerable and posing a threat to our voting and democracy. Lots of woke cancel culture lefty lawyers on this site who will now go full crickets. Why did the DNC sent a ranking actual POTUS contender in Klobuchar to spearhead this? Because if the DNC lost Georgia in 2020, they would plan to contest the results. They were creating a foothold and narrative for possible future litigation. If the DNC has problems with Dominion, why can't the RNC? Stacey Abrams literally accused SOS Raffensperger of Georgia of voter suppression and demanded he resign during the Georgia primaries when the DVS units were failing and had massive logistical problems. But we should all pretend none of that happened since the MSM wants to suppress that. So Klobuchar and Warren, actual contenders, and DNC Georgia hero Abrams don't believe the elections are safe, but Donald Trump is evil because he thinks and says the same things?

There was no concession, from the minute Trump was inaugurated, the DNC pushed forward whatever means possible to try to force him out of office. They literally sued to say the election was corrupted by Russia.

I know Obama is some kind of political deity to some here so what if Obama got treated this way? Would you call that a concession if the minute he stepped into office, he would spend 2 and a half years defending himself, at 35 million of our direct tax dollars no less, against claims that were never actually proven. If he faced multiple calls saying he was illegitimate, had Kathy Griffin post a picture with his severed mock up fake head, had celebrities make videos to ask electors to vote differently, had elements of Big Tech demanding a recount in multiple states, be called a Pro Hitler type campaign and found out your entire campaign could have been spied on by the opposition, the same opposition who are openly acknowledged to cheating Bernie Sanders out of the 2016 DNC ticket and engaged in the largest single act of modern money laundering since the Pablo Escobar era.  Most of you would be up in arms if Obama got treated that way. In no way would you believe the RNC conceded anything if they did all that.

And what did I say before?

According to the new rules of modern politics, backed by the left leaning MSM, Big Tech, Big Social Media, Big Education, Hollywood and the DNC - You are only allowed to criticize and have real doubt about the outcome of U.S. elections if you are a Democrat.

Mueller report didn't come up with a nothing burger. Dozens of convictions, and left it up to congress to decide whether or not to prosecute the President.

 

[BladeRunner]

Mueller report didn't come up with a nothing burger. Dozens of convictions, and left it up to congress to decide whether or not to prosecute the President.

The goal of the Mueller report was to get Trump.  Anything short of that is failure - not to mention they just got a bunch of nobodies on process crimes.  

It wasn't the gotcha' you thought it was at all.  Not even close.

 

[renesauz]

The goal of the Mueller report was to get Trump.  Anything short of that is failure - not to mention they just got a bunch of nobodies on process crimes.  

It wasn't the gotcha' you thought it was at all.  Not even close.

It was also a VERY VERY long way from clearing TRUMP of any wrongdoing, as he and his supporters like to claim.

 

[BladeRunner]

It was also a VERY VERY long way from clearing TRUMP of any wrongdoing, as he and his supporters like to claim.

Fortunately, in this country, the burden of proof lies upon the prosecutors to prove guilt.  If you can't prove guilt then, by law, they're are innocent.

 

[tymarsas]

The actual purpose of the Mueller report was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election. Pretty much the first sentence is "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion." I know that many people had other expectations of the report (such as "get Trump") but it certainly wasn't a nothing burger. I would hope that everyone can agree that foreign influence in US elections is bad, just as I hope that everyone would agree that election fraud is bad.

 

[BladeRunner]

The actual purpose of the Mueller report was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election. Pretty much the first sentence is "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion." I know that many people had other expectations of the report (such as "get Trump") but it certainly wasn't a nothing burger. I would hope that everyone can agree that foreign influence in US elections is bad, just as I hope that everyone would agree that election fraud is bad.

I can agree to that. 

 

[tommyGunZ]

The goal of the Mueller report was to get Trump.  Anything short of that is failure - not to mention they just got a bunch of nobodies on process crimes.  

It wasn't the gotcha' you thought it was at all.  Not even close.

LOL.  The Mueller team adhered to guidance stating the exact opposite - that they couldn’t indict a sitting President.  Do you just make up facts that are completely the opposite of what happened often, or just on these boards? 

 

[BladeRunner]

LOL.  The Mueller team adhered to guidance stating the exact opposite - that they couldn’t indict a sitting President.  Do you just make up facts that are completely the opposite of what happened often, or just on these boards? 

No indictment = not guilty in the eyes of the law.  All I can say is you need to deal with it.  You all thought it was going to finally bring down Trump (prior to the election) and it failed miserably.  But you did get some mules on process crimes.  Yay?

 

[Thunderlips]

Meh.  Much like in football....it's the SECOND guy in an altercation that draws the penalty.  

 

[Thunderlips]

And I'd imagine that one could make the argument that, even if you think Trump was railroaded by the powers that be in 2020, you'd have to, in hindsight, have to admit that Hillary was railroaded in 16.

 

[bigbottom]

No indictment = not guilty in the eyes of the law.  All I can say is you need to deal with it.  You all thought it was going to finally bring down Trump (prior to the election) and it failed miserably.  But you did get some mules on process crimes.  Yay?

What would be your response if he was now indicted for the actions described in the Mueller Report?  I’m not expecting that to happen, but it could. 

 

[BladeRunner]

What would be your response if he was now indicted for the actions described in the Mueller Report?  I’m not expecting that to happen, but it could. 

An indictment that led to a conviction?  If that's the case, then he's guilty in the eyes of the law and then and only then would the Mueller Report be the "gotcha" the entirety of the left thought it would be.  But, still, it would be a small, thankless "gotcha" because it's purpose for the left was to throw him out of office in the middle of his term.

 

[bigbottom]

An indictment that led to a conviction?  If that's the case, then he's guilty in the eyes of the law and then and only then would the Mueller Report be the "gotcha" the entirety of the left thought it would be.  But, still, it would be a small, thankless "gotcha" because it's purpose for the left was to throw him out of office in the middle of his term.

I thought the Mueller investigation was initiated by Republicans. 

 

[dawgtrails]

The goal of the Mueller report was to get Trump.  Anything short of that is failure - not to mention they just got a bunch of nobodies on process crimes.  

Campaign chair and personal attorney to the president are nobodies?

 

[BladeRunner]

Campaign chair and personal attorney to the president are nobodies?

Yep.

Can you even tell me their names without looking?

 

[dawgtrails]

Yep.

Can you even tell me their names without looking?

Seriously? I mean, I guess a good chunk of the populace doesn't know exactly what Manafort did for Trump, but his name is pretty recognizable. And everyone knows the slime ball Cohen

 

[BladeRunner]

Seriously? I mean, I guess a good chunk of the populace doesn't know exactly what Manafort did for Trump, but his name is pretty recognizable. And everyone knows the slime ball Cohen

I disagree. If you asked 100 people who they were 99 of them wouldn't have any idea.

So, once again, nobodies.

 

[zoonation]

“Massive” legal disputes were not filed.  Vexatious ones were. 

And this topic, despite the considerable effort you put into it (kudos), is yet another strawman argument at its core.