I don't get this trade (1 Viewer)

[Blackjacks]

I know it comes down to $ but am I missing something here where a guy like Wes Walker goes for a 2nd and 7th and Randy Moss is only going to take a 2nd or 3rd? I didn't even think Welker was that good. He is a nice wr and return man but I definetly didn't he would go for that. Can someone educate me on why the Pats gave up this much for Welker.

(I really respect how the Pats do deals that what leaves me more than anything.)

Patriots Trade For Dolphins WR Welker

Peter King, CNN/Sports Illustrated - [Full Article]

Instead of signing WR/PR Wes Welker to a restricted-free-agent offer sheet, the Patriots acquired Welker on Monday afternoon for two picks in the 2007 draft. The Patriots will give up their second- and seventh-round choices. It's also likely under this scenario that New England will have to lay out less cash to sign Welker long term.

 

[cobalt_27]

I know it comes down to $ but am I missing something here where a guy like Wes Walker goes for a 2nd and 7th and Randy Moss is only going to take a 2nd or 3rd? I didn't even think Welker was that good. He is a nice wr and return man but I definetly didn't he would go for that. Can someone educate me on why the Pats gave up this much for Welker.(I really respect how the Pats do deals that what leaves me more than anything.)Patriots Trade For Dolphins WR WelkerPeter King, CNN/Sports Illustrated - [Full Article]Instead of signing WR/PR Wes Welker to a restricted-free-agent offer sheet, the Patriots acquired Welker on Monday afternoon for two picks in the 2007 draft. The Patriots will give up their second- and seventh-round choices. It's also likely under this scenario that New England will have to lay out less cash to sign Welker long term.

Randy's "worth" is negated somewhat by that price tag that comes along for the ride.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Moss is 30, costs around $10 million, and has sucked and been hurt for the past two seasons. he's also a malcontent and quites in the middle of plays in which he's not getting the ball.

by all accounts, welker is a gamer, is tough, quick, decent hands, and can play on special teams. he's the mold of the kind of WR's that the Patriots use quite well. he's also much younger and has much less baggage.

if the 7th round pick means that they save $ on him, then i'm okay letting a 7th round pick go. esp. since the pats will get a couple of comp picks this season.

 

[cstu]

1. Money

2. Lack of ego

 

[David Yudkin]

I know it comes down to $ but am I missing something here where a guy like Wes Walker goes for a 2nd and 7th and Randy Moss is only going to take a 2nd or 3rd? I didn't even think Welker was that good. He is a nice wr and return man but I definetly didn't he would go for that. Can someone educate me on why the Pats gave up this much for Welker.

(I really respect how the Pats do deals that what leaves me more than anything.)

Patriots Trade For Dolphins WR Welker

Peter King, CNN/Sports Illustrated - [Full Article]

Instead of signing WR/PR Wes Welker to a restricted-free-agent offer sheet, the Patriots acquired Welker on Monday afternoon for two picks in the 2007 draft. The Patriots will give up their second- and seventh-round choices. It's also likely under this scenario that New England will have to lay out less cash to sign Welker long term.

I suspect the answer lies in the last part. NE likely will save some coin by not paying out the inflated contract they would have otherwise had to pay Welker in the offer sheet. I wonder what Welker's contract will be like coming to the Pats--seeing how he technically now has no contract or a contract offer from the Pats.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

That is a TON compared to what Thomas Jones just got traded for...

 

[Pat Patriot]

I know it comes down to $ but am I missing something here where a guy like Wes Walker goes for a 2nd and 7th and Randy Moss is only going to take a 2nd or 3rd? I didn't even think Welker was that good. He is a nice wr and return man but I definetly didn't he would go for that. Can someone educate me on why the Pats gave up this much for Welker.(I really respect how the Pats do deals that what leaves me more than anything.)Patriots Trade For Dolphins WR WelkerPeter King, CNN/Sports Illustrated - [Full Article]Instead of signing WR/PR Wes Welker to a restricted-free-agent offer sheet, the Patriots acquired Welker on Monday afternoon for two picks in the 2007 draft. The Patriots will give up their second- and seventh-round choices. It's also likely under this scenario that New England will have to lay out less cash to sign Welker long term.

Randy's "worth" is negated somewhat by that price tag that comes along for the ride.

And the Patriots are trying to get Moss for 30 cents on the dollar. His value is at its lowest now. Welker actually out-produced Moss last year. Plus Welker is going to return kicks. Welker is a great fit for the Pats and to get them the rules say the price is a 2nd rounder.

 

[Native]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

 

[LHUCKS]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

truer words have never been spoken

 

[rabidfireweasel]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

I can't disagree.Two things- The Browns second would be much higher.The Patriots have drafted 2 wr's in the second round that have accomplished little: Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson. I think they wanted someone they could count on to produce immediately and felt that the loss in upside was worth the flexibility and guaranteed moderate success of Welker. New England was a collapsed second half away from a Superbowl and they are trying to improve.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I got the answer.

Adam Schefter reported this.

The Pats were prepared to offer a 7 year, $38.5M offer sheet with $10.5M signing bonus. There was a nasty poison pill in the contract that NE was tendering Wes Welker - namely that if he played 4 games in the state of Florida the entire contract (all $38.5M) would become guaranteed. Huizenga and Robert Kraft worked it out after the Dolphins' owner took offense to that contract and the 7th rounder was used to placate Miami.

 

[Blackjacks]

Moss is 30, costs around $10 million, and has sucked and been hurt for the past two seasons. he's also a malcontent and quites in the middle of plays in which he's not getting the ball.by all accounts, welker is a gamer, is tough, quick, decent hands, and can play on special teams. he's the mold of the kind of WR's that the Patriots use quite well. he's also much younger and has much less baggage.if the 7th round pick means that they save $ on him, then i'm okay letting a 7th round pick go. esp. since the pats will get a couple of comp picks this season.

Are you really saying you'd rather your team acquire Wes Welker than Randy "freaking" Moss?Just like TO everyone will hate him and say he is a malcontent yet pray in their basement that their team or their fantasy quarterback gets him.I know he is more $ but this is humorish. I agree with the guy earlier that said if the Browns made this move they would be laughed at. By the way 2 years ago Moss was alittle hurt but he didn't have a horrible year (over 1,000 yards and 8 td's)He just gave up this year cause the team was such a joke. Whoever gets his services (as long as a competitor) is going to get a steal.

 

[MSULions]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

 

[stevegamer]

It really depends on what you want out of a WR2. I consider Moss a WR2, because I don't want a WR1 who isn't going to play hard. If he's you're #1, you better have a really soild #2.

It really depends if your team needs a PR/KR, or if you have alot of cap room you can waste or not.

Welker will almost certainly gain more yards this year than Moss - just not necessarily from scrimmage. Moss plays about half the time or less on offense when in the lineup, and he's been somewhat fragile lately.

If you've got $6M+ in cap room you need to eat up, Moss is your guy. If you want to use the $6M on other things or need a returner, Welker is your guy. Moss is also a great threat, but he's not a WR1 at this point, due to injury & simply not caring.

Frankly, right now, I'd rather have Welker than Moss on my NFL team, and depending ont he scoirng my FF team. If return yards/TD's count Welker>Moss.

 

[PatsWillWin]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

Do you need the difference between the Patriots and the Browns explained to you?

 

[Workhorse]

Actually, its a brilliant move by the Pats, if they value Welker enough to sign him to the offer sheet in the first place. Now whether you think a player of Wes Welkers caliber is worth a second round pick in the first place is CERTAINLY open for debate.

However, they can now sign Welker to a VERY cap friendly deal and won't lay out nearly as much guaranteed money as they would had the Dolphins declined to match. And a 7th rounder? Basically worthless.

We'll see if Welker is worth all the fuss.

 

[Bri]

Troy Brown's replacement seems expensive but Troy is so quietly important to the Pats that I'm torn here

 

[bigreese82]

DJ Hackett costs a 2nd... WELKER>HACKETT ??

 

[stevegamer]

DJ Hackett costs a 2nd... WELKER>HACKETT ??

I think Welker is a hair better, but I'm a Seahawks fan who thinks a lot of Hackett. Welker helps in more ways than Hackett.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

Do you need the difference between the Patriots and the Browns explained to you?

Similarity #1: Belichick lost his last playoff game with both teams.

 

[jurb26]

Outside of the finacial end of the deal, I really don't see anything great about this trade. If you ask me, NE has enough "role" players at WR. IMO, that is what Welker is, a role player. They need to give Brady a go to WR and WR1.

 

[plymkr]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.

This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

 

[Workhorse]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

 

[Wandering wookie]

Outside of the finacial end of the deal, I really don't see anything great about this trade. If you ask me, NE has enough "role" players at WR. IMO, that is what Welker is, a role player. They need to give Brady a go to WR and WR1.

Welker is a gamer and being surrounded by fellow Gamers on the Pats squad will just increase his likelyhood to over perform. Expect great things from this attitude and the fact that he will have one of the top NFL QBs to pass to him for the next couple years. I think that he has earned the respect from the NE vets with his play versus the pats over the past year or so and THAT is what is making him worth the 2nd and 7th. Nothing to prove to the vets, no question marks about being able to make it in the pros and no salary cap eating numbers that will bind the Pats in the next couple seasons of FA (which their cap space looks not just good but pretty freaking decent). On the Phins side, they get extra picks for a new guy to help build their team around...plus they have better opportunity to move up and down in the draft to set themselves up over the next couple years to improve the overall talent of the team. Win-win in my book.

 

[jurb26]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Outside of the finacial end of the deal, I really don't see anything great about this trade. If you ask me, NE has enough "role" players at WR. IMO, that is what Welker is, a role player. They need to give Brady a go to WR and WR1.

I agree that a number one would help, but I don't think it is essential. When the patriots have had offensive success, they haven't needed a great WR1. What they needed was enough decent wr's that 1 would get open against man coverage. Bransh was hard to cover man to man, but easy to cover in double coverage. However, if you committed two to Branch, Givens, the younger Troy Brown, or Patten could beat single coverage a decent amoun of the time. Welker upgrades the slot position significantly, and helps to create mismatches against others team's depth.. I don't think many nickel backs can cover him in the slot. He is an upgrade (for now) over Brown, Jackson, Kelvin Kight, or Bam Childress.I also think that his kick returning, which is overstated a bit, may put Kevin Faulk's job in jeapordy a bit. I think that they are looking to target a rb in rounds 3-5, and if they do- Faulk could be the odd man out. However, they couldn't release Faulk with have a starter quality return man ready to step in.

 

[The Shizzle]

Lets revisit this post a year from now. Moss or Welker. My money is Welker is more important.

 

[plymkr]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

I am sure Randy would renegotiate to get out of Alameda. Sure he costs more because he is 100 times better than Welker. Like I said, the Pats can't be perfect all of the time. By the way, ask Tom Brady, who signed his deal with a large hometown discount so the Pats can get more players and stay competitive, who he would rather have lined up outside?

 

[Kit Fisto]

Talent wins football games...

You're not another TommyGunz alias are you?Thought we went through this before.

 

[jurb26]

Outside of the finacial end of the deal, I really don't see anything great about this trade. If you ask me, NE has enough "role" players at WR. IMO, that is what Welker is, a role player. They need to give Brady a go to WR and WR1.

I agree that a number one would help, but I don't think it is essential. When the patriots have had offensive success, they haven't needed a great WR1. What they needed was enough decent wr's that 1 would get open against man coverage. Bransh was hard to cover man to man, but easy to cover in double coverage. However, if you committed two to Branch, Givens, the younger Troy Brown, or Patten could beat single coverage a decent amoun of the time. Welker upgrades the slot position significantly, and helps to create mismatches against others team's depth.. I don't think many nickel backs can cover him in the slot. He is an upgrade (for now) over Brown, Jackson, Kelvin Kight, or Bam Childress.I also think that his kick returning, which is overstated a bit, may put Kevin Faulk's job in jeapordy a bit. I think that they are looking to target a rb in rounds 3-5, and if they do- Faulk could be the odd man out. However, they couldn't release Faulk with have a starter quality return man ready to step in.

The probelm I have is this. There just isn't any WR on NE that scares me (speaking as a fan of the Steeler if we were playing NE). There is no guy I see as a difference maker. A guy that can force an D's hand and change the stratage and coverage. Branch did it at least a little bit. I guess what I'm really saying is that I don't see Welker as an upgrade really. He adds depth, yes. He will likley become a solid WR3 or slot guy, yes. Consider for a moment how bad NE's starting WR really were last year though. It is nearly impossible for them to have not upgraded them. Welker will not be a WR1 or WR2 in this O. At least NE better not hope so. That is where they REALLY need the upgrade if you ask me. There is still plenty of time and the draft. So I know they very well could do more. I guess I just find it surprising that so many are excited about this deal.

 

[Workhorse]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

 

[smcindoe]

The Pats were prepared to offer a 7 year, $38.5M offer sheet with $10.5M signing bonus. There was a nasty poison pill in the contract that NE was tendering Wes Welker - namely that if he played 4 games in the state of Florida the entire contract (all $38.5M) would become guaranteed. Huizenga and Robert Kraft worked it out after the Dolphins' owner took offense to that contract and the 7th rounder was used to placate Miami.

Wait, you can still do this? I thought the NFL closed the loophole after last year's fiasco with the Vikes and Seahawks.

 

[Aaronstory]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Consider for a moment how bad NE's starting WR really were last year though.

Also consider for a moment that said crappy wideouts were a first down away from returning to the Super Bowl.

 

[Aaronstory]

The Pats were prepared to offer a 7 year, $38.5M offer sheet with $10.5M signing bonus. There was a nasty poison pill in the contract that NE was tendering Wes Welker - namely that if he played 4 games in the state of Florida the entire contract (all $38.5M) would become guaranteed. Huizenga and Robert Kraft worked it out after the Dolphins' owner took offense to that contract and the 7th rounder was used to placate Miami.

Wait, you can still do this? I thought the NFL closed the loophole after last year's fiasco with the Vikes and Seahawks.

They tried, but couldn't get all sides to agree on all aspects. (Shocker).The "poison pill" is still very much alive...

 

[smcindoe]

They tried, but couldn't get all sides to agree on all aspects. (Shocker).The "poison pill" is still very much alive...

Wow...OK, follow-up question: why doesn't every team do this, for every RFA they sign?

 

[Wandering wookie]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

I am sure Randy would renegotiate to get out of Alameda. Sure he costs more because he is 100 times better than Welker. Like I said, the Pats can't be perfect all of the time. By the way, ask Tom Brady, who signed his deal with a large hometown discount so the Pats can get more players and stay competitive, who he would rather have lined up outside?

I don't think that the Pats are perfect ever but they do seem to pull up A's over K's or K's over Q's a majority of the time despite their Monty Beisels and Donald Hayes moves. This move is about one thing and one thing alone which has nothing to do with Randy Moss. This has to do with the patriots in need of a slot reciever/special teamer/football player to prepare for the eventual departure of Troy Brown who was drafted out of Marshall some 14+ years ago. The role of Welker is completely different than that of Moss not to mention that Moss is growing longer in the tooth and Welker is scrapping on the upside of the hill. Would I like to have Moss at Welkers price, heck yes, is it going to happen, probably not. Revisit this one after the season and see what you have. Besides, who is to say that the Pats are even done in FA or attempting to get Moss.And another thing, I don't believe that Welker has a new contract yet and I believe that the contract offered during the RFA phase of this deal is not the contract that he is currently on.

 

[jurb26]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

And Robert Meachem had more receving yds than Calvin Johnson last year. Who is the #1 prospect in the draft at WR?

 

[plymkr]

Talent wins football games...

You're not another TommyGunz alias are you?Thought we went through this before.

Umm...No.

 

[Couch Potato]

The only reason the deal isnt being torn to shreds is because its the Patriots. If the Browns gave a 2nd and a 7th for Welker, theyd be the laughing stocks of the League.

Wouldn't the Browns have to begin stopping teams first before they would need to invest in a talented punt returner?

 

[BigTex]

I know it comes down to $ but am I missing something here where a guy like Wes Walker goes for a 2nd and 7th and Randy Moss is only going to take a 2nd or 3rd? I didn't even think Welker was that good. He is a nice wr and return man but I definetly didn't he would go for that. Can someone educate me on why the Pats gave up this much for Welker.(I really respect how the Pats do deals that what leaves me more than anything.)Patriots Trade For Dolphins WR WelkerPeter King, CNN/Sports Illustrated - [Full Article]Instead of signing WR/PR Wes Welker to a restricted-free-agent offer sheet, the Patriots acquired Welker on Monday afternoon for two picks in the 2007 draft. The Patriots will give up their second- and seventh-round choices. It's also likely under this scenario that New England will have to lay out less cash to sign Welker long term.

I'm with you, there's really no justifiable way to spin this and actually believe it.

 

[Workhorse]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

And Robert Meachem had more receving yds than Calvin Johnson last year. Who is the #1 prospect in the draft at WR?

Calvin Johnson, clearly.But if the analogy made any sense, Johnson would carry all of that Moss baggage and be about 5 years older than Meachem with years of NFL wear and tear on him.

 

[jurb26]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

And Robert Meachem had more receving yds than Calvin Johnson last year. Who is the #1 prospect in the draft at WR?

Calvin Johnson, clearly.But if the analogy made any sense, Johnson would carry all of that Moss baggage and be about 5 years older than Meachem with years of NFL wear and tear on him.

Neither analogy makes any sense... that was my point.

 

[Workhorse]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

And Robert Meachem had more receving yds than Calvin Johnson last year. Who is the #1 prospect in the draft at WR?

Calvin Johnson, clearly.But if the analogy made any sense, Johnson would carry all of that Moss baggage and be about 5 years older than Meachem with years of NFL wear and tear on him.

Neither analogy makes any sense... that was my point.

Hey, I'm not the guy who brought Randy Moss into the discussion in the first place.However, when you factor in age, baggage and salary, I'd rather give up a late second round pick for Wes Welker than Randy Moss right now. However, I'm not sure I would give up the pick for EITHER guy if I'm the Pats.

 

[plymkr]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

I am sure Randy would renegotiate to get out of Alameda. Sure he costs more because he is 100 times better than Welker. Like I said, the Pats can't be perfect all of the time. By the way, ask Tom Brady, who signed his deal with a large hometown discount so the Pats can get more players and stay competitive, who he would rather have lined up outside?

I don't think that the Pats are perfect ever but they do seem to pull up A's over K's or K's over Q's a majority of the time despite their Monty Beisels and Donald Hayes moves. This move is about one thing and one thing alone which has nothing to do with Randy Moss. This has to do with the patriots in need of a slot reciever/special teamer/football player to prepare for the eventual departure of Troy Brown who was drafted out of Marshall some 14+ years ago. The role of Welker is completely different than that of Moss not to mention that Moss is growing longer in the tooth and Welker is scrapping on the upside of the hill. Would I like to have Moss at Welkers price, heck yes, is it going to happen, probably not. Revisit this one after the season and see what you have. Besides, who is to say that the Pats are even done in FA or attempting to get Moss.And another thing, I don't believe that Welker has a new contract yet and I believe that the contract offered during the RFA phase of this deal is not the contract that he is currently on.

Is Welker going to play DB too? Guys like Welker are a lot easier to find (with 2 draft picks no less) than guys like Randy Moss. Everybody makes mistakes. The Pats are getting so arrogant they think they can plug in an Tom, ****, Harry, or Wes and come out smelling like roses. Sure, they were not far from the Super Bowl last year, but I think Welker nets the same result where a Moss makes the difference.

 

[jurb26]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

And Robert Meachem had more receving yds than Calvin Johnson last year. Who is the #1 prospect in the draft at WR?

Calvin Johnson, clearly.But if the analogy made any sense, Johnson would carry all of that Moss baggage and be about 5 years older than Meachem with years of NFL wear and tear on him.

Neither analogy makes any sense... that was my point.

Hey, I'm not the guy who brought Randy Moss into the discussion in the first place.However, when you factor in age, baggage and salary, I'd rather give up a late second round pick for Wes Welker than Randy Moss right now. However, I'm not sure I would give up the pick for EITHER guy if I'm the Pats.

I don't know who brought up Moss in this thread and don't really care to look back and find out. To me Moss was just a name attatched to a figure of a WR1. Nothing more. The name of Moss may actually be hurting that arguement because of the hate directed towards Moss. All I am saying is that IMO, NE would be best served finding a WR1 rather than another role player WR like Welker. I fully understand that Wleker was traded for to fill a purpose. He adds depth, can be a nice slot weapon and is a fantastic ST player. I just don't think that is were the real problem with the NE WRs is.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm a Pats fan, I don't need to sugar coat it.

First - I don't mind the 2nd + 7th for Welker on its own. He fits a need for us, I like the way he's played in games against the Pats, and is the type of WR that we can get a lot out of. I think he's better than what the Patriots could've gotten late 2nd round at the WR position.

Secondly - IF the following are true:

1. Randy Moss is available for a late 2nd round pick

2. Randy Moss is willing to restructure his contract to be traded to NE.

Then the trade for Welker is BAD.

So if you have any evidence/proof of those two premises, put me down as a Pats fan who thinks they made a mistake.

 

[PhD]

Seriously. New England fans can say what they want and buy in to the BS the Pats front office is spewing, but if you could get Randy Moss for the same price it was a bad deal. Like someone said earlier, we are talking about Randy Freaking Moss! Talent wins football games...it is the coach's responsibility to utilize that talent. Moss is 100 times better than Welker dreamed he would be growing up.This was not a great deal for the Pats. Please stop sugar coating it. They can't be perfect all of the time.

I'm not saying that Welker is neccessarily worth a (late) second round pick. But your comparison to Moss is a little skewed: Welker's contract is a fraction of Moss's. The average annual value of Welker's deal is reportedly around $3 million per year. Moss makes nearly 3 times that much per season. So, in essence, this isn't really "the same price as Moss".

Moss = WR1Welker = Role playerOf course Moss "cost" more. He is what they need though.

Who had more receving yards last year? The "role player" or the "WR1"?

If both players are motivated this comparison is ridiculous. Yes, Moss is expensive, but if he is healthy and motivated he is worth it, as he is basically "uncoverable". Yes, Moss has motivation problems, but weren't recent reports suggesting that Belichick and the famed leadership in the almighty Patriot locker room could tame Moss and bring his A-game to the field - ala Dillon? What happened to that confidence?This is nothing more than Patriot fans spinning. If they had signed Moss instead of Welker you would find a completely different spin suggesting that Moss would have a career year and that Welker is nothing more than a energetic back-up - a Wayne Chrebet wanna-be.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Is Welker going to play DB too? Guys like Welker are a lot easier to find (with 2 draft picks no less) than guys like Randy Moss. Everybody makes mistakes. The Pats are getting so arrogant they think they can plug in an Tom, ****, Harry, or Wes and come out smelling like roses. Sure, they were not far from the Super Bowl last year, but I think Welker nets the same result where a Moss makes the difference.

FYI, the overplaid "Belichick is arrogant and thinks he can win with anyone" card flew out the window when the Patriots went out and signed the best defensive free agent on the market to a blockbuster contract.Just FYI.

 

[PatsWillWin]

If both players are motivated this comparison is ridiculous. Yes, Moss is expensive, but if he is healthy and motivated he is worth it, as he is basically "uncoverable". Yes, Moss has motivation problems, but weren't recent reports suggesting that Belichick and the famed leadership in the almighty Patriot locker room could tame Moss and bring his A-game to the field - ala Dillon? What happened to that confidence?

This is nothing more than Patriot fans spinning. If they had signed Moss instead of Welker you would find a completely different spin suggesting that Moss would have a career year and that Welker is nothing more than a energetic back-up - a Wayne Chrebet wanna-be.

Yeah us Pats fans are spinning.The Pats haters are calling the Patriot fans lapdogs and homerst because the Patriots didn't take a magical Randy Moss trade that never existed.

Link to where the Pats turned down Moss for Welker? TIA.