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I feel sorry for Derrick Ward (1 Viewer)

gradin123

Footballguy
He clearly outperforms Jacobs on Sunday night and runs for 215 yards yet Jacobs get more credit for the win by most people. Even Jacobs admits Ward was the better back on the night but everyone says he only got 200 yards because Jacobs loosened up the defense. That oversimplifies things and ignores the fact Ward was the more explosive running back all night. Ward is a very good receiver, a good blocker and a more capable running back than most people recognize.

People say Ward isn't an every down back and that might be true but neither is Jacobs. Jacobs wears down and gets hurt because of his running style. He is a lot like Jerome Bettis really but not as durable probably because he is taller and gets hit in the knees more. Between 1998 and 2005 Bettis never had more than 1412 combined yards and only had more than 1000 combined yards once 4 times. Regardless if Ward is back or not I don't think Jacobs will ever have more than 1400 combined yards. His value as a fantasy back will always be dependent on his TD's because he'll never have big yardage.

Back to Ward though, I really don't think he will get a big contract because he is too old and the consensus everywhere(unjustifiably in my view) is that Jacobs makes him. I think Ward will either be back with the Giants or perhaps end up with a team like New England who specializes in getting undervalued players but either way he won't get paid.

 
Ward's YPC when Jacobs plays: 6.2

Ward's YPC when Jacobs doesn't play: 3.6

Just sayin'...

 
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Ward's YPC when Jacobs plays: 6.2

Ward's YPC when Jacobs doesn't play: 3.6

Just sayin'...
Based on 2 games. Look at 2007 and I could turn those stats around on you.Games in which Jacobs played and Ward didn't in 2007.

Jacobs YPC when Ward plays 5.6

JacobsYPC when Ward doesn't play(including playoffs) 4.3

Don't get me wrong. I think Ward does benefit from Jacobs brutal work but Ward also is a much more explosive back than Jacobs is.

 
Ward's YPC when Jacobs plays: 6.2Ward's YPC when Jacobs doesn't play: 3.6Just sayin'...
And the Giants OL played horrible in Dallas. But that stat and the fact he'll be 29 next season is why Ward won't get big money. He'll be a Giant or Patriot next year. Bank on it.
 
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Must suck being paid $1 mil to play football for a living.

 
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup. Now, this year, he has to fight his own teammate for free agent money and there's simply not many teams that need a starting RB.

The Giants had the top rushing unit in the NFL, by a good margin, before their 300 yard game.

I'm very curious what happens in FA this year.

 
Must suck being paid $1 mil to play football for a living.
yeah, i don't feel sorry for any professional athlete (who has his health).
never heard this mindset with regards to Ward. I don't disagree it's just...well it doesn't cross my mind when a practice squad player works his keyster off to become (hopefully) a starting RB years later. Ward is very easy to root for and hasn't really had the big(relative) pay day.***ETA I think Ward was a practice squad player with the Jets. He might have been cut and not even made their PS. Regardless he worked hard from nothing to something in the NFL.
 
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Ward's YPC when Jacobs plays: 6.2Ward's YPC when Jacobs doesn't play: 3.6Just sayin'...
:unsure: When Jacobs plays, the Giants are a completely different team with a completely different mindset. He punishes defenses and wears them down and makes it easier for the other RBs. I don't want to take anything away from Ward because he is solid, but Jacobs makes a huge difference in the Giants.
 
Watching the game the other night I commented to my boy that I could run for big yardage through the holes that Ward had and I'm 46 years old. Now don't get me wrong Ward does a good job but with that offensive line most backs would. In fact I would have liked to see how Bradshaw would have fared this year as I still think he is the most talented pure runner on that team.

 
If DeAngelo Williams were a New York Giant, his yards per carry would be limited only by the delta between the line of scrimmage and the end zone. It'd be supernatural. I don't feel bad for Ward at all. He wears #34.

 
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup.
Yeah, I'll never understand why there's not a big free agent market for 28-year old injury prone (no complete seasons) running backs with 725 yards rushing over 3 seasonsYR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD2005 NYG 14 35 123 3.5 0 5 2 13 6.5 0 2006 NYG 8 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 02007 NYG 8 125 602 4.8 3 40 26 179 6.9 12008 NYG 15 167 948 5.7 2 52 39 370 9.5 0TOT 45 327 1673 5.1 5 97 67 562 8.4 1 Jacobs doesn't make Ward a better player and Ward doesn't make Jacobs better players, they make each other better players.
 
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup.
Yeah, I'll never understand why there's not a big free agent market for 28-year old injury prone (no complete seasons) running backs with 725 yards rushing over 3 seasonsYR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD2005 NYG 14 35 123 3.5 0 5 2 13 6.5 0 2006 NYG 8 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 02007 NYG 8 125 602 4.8 3 40 26 179 6.9 12008 NYG 15 167 948 5.7 2 52 39 370 9.5 0TOT 45 327 1673 5.1 5 97 67 562 8.4 1 Jacobs doesn't make Ward a better player and Ward doesn't make Jacobs better players, they make each other better players.
I disagree with that. Jacobs physically punishes a defense and they eventually wear down, then the Wards and Bradshaws of the world can come in and take advantage of it. I'm not saying those 2 aren't talented, but there is no denying Jacobs makes them better.
 
Ward's YPC when Jacobs plays: 6.2Ward's YPC when Jacobs doesn't play: 3.6Just sayin'...
:jawdrop: When Jacobs plays, the Giants are a completely different team with a completely different mindset. He punishes defenses and wears them down and makes it easier for the other RBs. I don't want to take anything away from Ward because he is solid, but Jacobs makes a huge difference in the Giants.
true:thumbup: One of the leagues most "valuable" players this year, even if hes not a well discussed MVP candidate. Giants are a completely different team with him in the lineup.
 
Two Deep said:
Watching the game the other night I commented to my boy that I could run for big yardage through the holes that Ward had and I'm 46 years old. Now don't get me wrong Ward does a good job but with that offensive line most backs would. In fact I would have liked to see how Bradshaw would have fared this year as I still think he is the most talented pure runner on that team.
Well I guess you are better than Jacobs then because he wasn't breaking off big runs behind that same line. He averaged 3.6 yards per carry
 
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phillyphan07 said:
Bri said:
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup.
Yeah, I'll never understand why there's not a big free agent market for 28-year old injury prone (no complete seasons) running backs with 725 yards rushing over 3 seasonsYR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD2005 NYG 14 35 123 3.5 0 5 2 13 6.5 0 2006 NYG 8 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 02007 NYG 8 125 602 4.8 3 40 26 179 6.9 12008 NYG 15 167 948 5.7 2 52 39 370 9.5 0TOT 45 327 1673 5.1 5 97 67 562 8.4 1 Jacobs doesn't make Ward a better player and Ward doesn't make Jacobs better players, they make each other better players.
Ryan Grant was the 4th RB how much does he make?The 28 year old part and the injury part I hear ya but Ward didn't get offers-not a vet minimum not 1.5 mil when everyone makes 4mil(just throwing # out there) ....at some point the market was so bleak you'd figure a team could have him at a discounted rate, still just one offer. Even if just at the latter point, I'd figure you'd agree
 
Anthony Borbely said:
phillyphan07 said:
Bri said:
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup.
Yeah, I'll never understand why there's not a big free agent market for 28-year old injury prone (no complete seasons) running backs with 725 yards rushing over 3 seasonsYR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD2005 NYG 14 35 123 3.5 0 5 2 13 6.5 0 2006 NYG 8 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 02007 NYG 8 125 602 4.8 3 40 26 179 6.9 12008 NYG 15 167 948 5.7 2 52 39 370 9.5 0TOT 45 327 1673 5.1 5 97 67 562 8.4 1 Jacobs doesn't make Ward a better player and Ward doesn't make Jacobs better players, they make each other better players.
I disagree with that. Jacobs physically punishes a defense and they eventually wear down, then the Wards and Bradshaws of the world can come in and take advantage of it. I'm not saying those 2 aren't talented, but there is no denying Jacobs makes them better.
Few things-Both of the Giants RBs are in the top 10 with runs for more than 10 yards. Jacobs has always been mistakenly thought of as not fast or not elusive. For the most part, Bradshaw doesn't really play RB til the 4th Q. Take him out of the equation here for a minute.This is a repeat of something I've posted over and over but people just don't believe it or remember it. It is going to be copied in 09, I am so "sure" I feel I can almost guarantee it. Coughlin's plan is to beat up the D with not one but two big RBs-Ward is big too, just not enormous like Jacobs, then Bradshaw cleans up.First Quarter-Jacobs 74 for 283 yards 2 rec 14 yardsWard 29 for 106 yards 6 rec 55 yardsBradshaw 2 carries...Second QuarterJacobs 53 for 244 yards 3 rec 14 yardsWard 57 for 324 yards 22 rec 198 yards(note this has risen a bit in Ward's favor lately due to injury)Bradshaw 2 carries...Third QuarterJacobs 56 for 314 yards 1 rec 8 yardsWard 34 for 145 yards 6 rec 95 yardsBradshaw 6 for 41Fourth QuarterJacobs 33 for 146 0 recWard 41 for 276 4 rec 21 yardsBradshaw 46 for 281 3 rec 28 yardsIt's even better by average...hang on a secJacobs1st 5.182nd 4.603rd-5.614th-4.42Ward 1st 3.662nd 5.683rd-4.264th 6.73Bradshaw 4th Q average is 6.11 YPCSo Coughlin can go from a RB averaging 5.18 to 5.68 to 5.61 (so all 5+ yard average in the first 3 Qs to breaking the other teams back with 6.73 average in the 4th. This is the top rushing offense in the NFL.If you take one out of this system it breaks down. Bradshaw may be able to replace Ward yardage wise but it won't be the pounding and it just won't be the same. It's efficient, well thought out, helps keep guys healthy, and yet doesn't hurt em' too much stat-wise(which many FFers probably care about but not nec Coughlin). It's brilliantly simple from the guy that had Natrone and James Stewart, James Stewart and Fred Taylor, Stacey Mack and Fred Taylor, and then Tiki and Brandon. This is how he hashed it out to be the best system over the years and as you can see it's a gem.
 
Ryan Grant was the 4th RB how much does he make?The 28 year old part and the injury part I hear ya but Ward didn't get offers-not a vet minimum not 1.5 mil when everyone makes 4mil(just throwing # out there) ....at some point the market was so bleak you'd figure a team could have him at a discounted rate, still just one offer. Even if just at the latter point, I'd figure you'd agree
Most teams like drafting young running backs of their own. The one team that seems content in offering older players contracts when they think they are undervalued is the Patriots.I don't think Bradshaw is an adequate replacement for Ward. Danny Ware I'm not sure of though. There is a chance Ware might replace Ward not Bradshaw.I don't think Ward will get any big offers and may re-sign with the Giants unless they decide to go with Ware instead. Then I think the Patriots swoop in and make a late offer.Maroney is a bust for Patriots and I could easily see Ward being a feature back for them. They seem to be the only team that doesn't dismiss players based simply on age.
 
Bri said:
eagles2007 said:
awesomeness said:
Must suck being paid $1 mil to play football for a living.
yeah, i don't feel sorry for any professional athlete (who has his health).
never heard this mindset with regards to Ward. I don't disagree it's just...well it doesn't cross my mind when a practice squad player works his keyster off to become (hopefully) a starting RB years later. Ward is very easy to root for and hasn't really had the big(relative) pay day.***ETA I think Ward was a practice squad player with the Jets. He might have been cut and not even made their PS. Regardless he worked hard from nothing to something in the NFL.
i worked my butt off to improve my lot in life as well. that doesn't draw him more praise from me. he's still making a hell of a lot more money than i am.
 
phillyphan07 said:
Bri said:
I was shocked Ward got next to no interest last year as a free agent. IIRC it was one team(Cleveland?) wanting him to come be a backup. He's not Turner(not close) but he's in that "same vein" where he should get a starting job for being a top backup.
Yeah, I'll never understand why there's not a big free agent market for 28-year old injury prone (no complete seasons) running backs with 725 yards rushing over 3 seasonsYR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD2005 NYG 14 35 123 3.5 0 5 2 13 6.5 0 2006 NYG 8 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 02007 NYG 8 125 602 4.8 3 40 26 179 6.9 12008 NYG 15 167 948 5.7 2 52 39 370 9.5 0TOT 45 327 1673 5.1 5 97 67 562 8.4 1 Jacobs doesn't make Ward a better player and Ward doesn't make Jacobs better players, they make each other better players.
Ward, injury prone???... I don't think you understand the concept of an "injury prone" player. Ward broke his leg last year, it was a freak accident that nobody can avoid. That's not being injury prone.. when your bones snap. Injury prone is constantly pulling a groin, a hamstring, muscles. Steven Jackson is injury prone... Ward... not so much. He hasn't missed a game this whole season... and this has been the highest workload of his career. Personally, as a NYG homer/fan... I'd call Jacobs injury prone before I'd say that about Ward. Jacobs also has his own running style and anybody that takes that much contact is bound to miss one or two or three games a season.
 
I don't think Ward is in a corner of a bedroom crying because some suggested that his 200+ yards game was a fluke. I'm guessing his teammates are proud of him, the Giants fans are proud of him and he's proud of himself for that effort. That's all that matters.

 
Back to Ward though, I really don't think he will get a big contract because he is too old and the consensus everywhere(unjustifiably in my view) is that Jacobs makes him. I think Ward will either be back with the Giants or perhaps end up with a team like New England who specializes in getting undervalued players but either way he won't get paid.
First anyone who think Ward isn't that explosive, or only succeeds when Jacobs plays just doesn't know anything about football. Ward has always been a very good running back, but he's been really really injury prone.Second, he won't get a big contract for exactly that reason, he just isn't durable at all.
 
Ward, injury prone???... I don't think you understand the concept of an "injury prone" player. Ward broke his leg last year, it was a freak accident that nobody can avoid. That's not being injury prone.. when your bones snap. Injury prone is constantly pulling a groin, a hamstring, muscles. Steven Jackson is injury prone... Ward... not so much. He hasn't missed a game this whole season... and this has been the highest workload of his career. Personally, as a NYG homer/fan... I'd call Jacobs injury prone before I'd say that about Ward. Jacobs also has his own running style and anybody that takes that much contact is bound to miss one or two or three games a season.
You DO realize that last year was NOT Ward's first season, right?In college, Ward had back to back season's at Fresno with injuries. First a broken hand, then he tore up a knee.He was drafted by the Jets in '04, got injured, and put on the practice squad. The Giants signed him off that squad. He appeared in 5 games.He has never played a complete season for the Giants since.... as he has had injuries every year.Ward IS injury prone. Period.BTW, so is Jacobs.
 
Ward IS injury prone. Period.BTW, so is Jacobs.
Jacobs seems fairly normal to me, if not on the "healthy" side (Merry Christmas switz)
Jacobs is by no means injury prone... there is no other running back in the league that runs like him. It would be superhuman for him to run like that and not miss one or two games a season. He's never suffered a lengthy injury, it's normal wear and tear for a running back that looks for contact. Marion Barber is the closest thing to Jacobs in the NFL... I was counting down the days until he missed a game, if your going to run that hard.. your going to miss a few, period.
 

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