I hate our country's drug policies (1 Viewer)

[dutch]

ridiculous

The use of helicopters to snoop in my backyard is another one of those horrible ideas that police got a hold of and are now using for over reaching ends.  I miss not being a potential suspect whenever I am out in public.

 

[Bucky86]

That's one cool granny

 

[Steve Tasker]

“The pilots fly within federal guidelines for altitude,” he said. “Probable cause to search the property is usually established by the trained spotter.”

 yeah, okay.

 

[dutch]

 yeah, okay.

ya know!!??

 

[dutch]

That's one cool granny

She said she uses for both medical and recreational.  Love it.

 

[Waingro]

Hey, at least the black market is thriving!!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

They may trot out flawed candidates, but the libertarians have the right idea.

 

[cstu]

They may trot out flawed candidates, but the libertarians have the right idea.

The new U.N. Secretary Antonio Guterres was behind the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal.  

My hope is that he helps spread that around the world.

 

[Jayrod]

They may trot out flawed candidates, but the libertarians have the right idea.

Yes, because Hillary & Trump are not flawed.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yes, because Hillary & Trump are not flawed.

I thought that they being flawed went without saying.

 

[mquinnjr]

I thought that they being flawed went without saying.

LOL, yeah it did. Weed at least, dumb that it's not legal across the country and taxed at this point. I can see the case against harder drugs, but show your work if legalizing weed is an issue.

 

[Johnnymac]

I think all drugs should be legal.  I dont get the mentality of punishing drug users with prison.  If people cant use responsibly they should be treated in a hospital or rehab center.  This country could have some amazing facilities to treat people with problems if they would just shift the focus from punishment to treatment.  I would feel better if our tax dollars were going to help people rather than punish them.  The whole thing is just plain stupid and it shows how we are still nowhere as a society.  I should have a right to put any substance I want into my body without the government sniffing around my business.  I'm not talking about people who use and then drive a car down a crowded sidewalk.  I'm talking about me, as a responsible user, who will not endanger anyone else while high.  I stay home on my couch and use (just weed)-- but this is illegal and I could be arrested for it.  People think we have advanced with all the technology, etc but there will come a time when people will look back on this time in history and shake their head at how stupid and unnecessary this whole drug policy of the last 35 years and counting.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

War on Drugs likely to get much much worse now

 

[Apple Jack]

War on Drugs likely to get much much worse now

Wouldn't be heartbroken if that guy got hit by a bus.

 

[Grahamburn]

I think all drugs should be legal.  I dont get the mentality of punishing drug users with prison.  If people cant use responsibly they should be treated in a hospital or rehab center. 

The reasoning behind punishing drug users with prison isn't necessarily for their drug use.  The users who can't do it responsibly are the same people committing the vast majority of crimes in this country so they can pay for their habit.  The guy mugging people for their wallet or breaking into your house is typically doing that to buy drugs.  You may not catch him in the act for those crimes, but you can catch him with dope in his car or on his person during a traffic stop.

A guy like you who is responsibly smoking a little pot in his basement once in a while isn't ending up in prison. 

 

[Jayrod]

I'm still not comfortable with lumping all drugs together.  Pot is less dangerous than alchohol, but heroine and meth are dangerous for society in general.

How do you control the damage without making them illegal?  

I could be convinced otherwise, but how can we allow the hard stuff on the streets even in a regulated capacity?  There are a lot of prescription drugs that get abused, imagine if recreational drugs were legal to make and sell?  How would that even work?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I'm still not comfortable with lumping all drugs together.  Pot is less dangerous than alchohol, but heroine and meth are dangerous for society in general.

How do you control the damage without making them illegal?  

I could be convinced otherwise, but how can we allow the hard stuff on the streets even in a regulated capacity?  There are a lot of prescription drugs that get abused, imagine if recreational drugs were legal to make and sell?  How would that even work?

What do you mean by "how would it work?"  There's a recreational drug called alcohol that is legal to make and sell.  It would work like that.

 

[Johnnymac]

The reasoning behind punishing drug users with prison isn't necessarily for their drug use.  The users who can't do it responsibly are the same people committing the vast majority of crimes in this country so they can pay for their habit.  The guy mugging people for their wallet or breaking into your house is typically doing that to buy drugs.  You may not catch him in the act for those crimes, but you can catch him with dope in his car or on his person during a traffic stop.

A guy like you who is responsibly smoking a little pot in his basement once in a while isn't ending up in prison. 

True, but how many are in prison for dealing or buying drugs?  I agree we should punish burglars and muggers.  I dont agree that someone should be given prison time simply for the act of selling or buying drugs.  I want prisons for violent criminals. 

 

[Grahamburn]

True, but how many are in prison for dealing or buying drugs?  I agree we should punish burglars and muggers.  I dont agree that someone should be given prison time simply for the act of selling or buying drugs.  I want prisons for violent criminals. 

My point is, of those people actually in prison for dealing or buying drugs, how many of them would you say are only guilty of using/buying or selling?  It may not be what they were ultimately convicted of, but the majority of them have committed plenty of other crimes.  Many of them violent.  If you land in prison for a drug offense you likely have a rap-sheet a mile long, multiple other related or unrelated offenses, parole violations, etc. 

If you legalize all drug use it will negatively impact law enforcement's ability to remove these less productive members of society.

 

[joffer]

What do you mean by "how would it work?"  There's a recreational drug called alcohol that is legal to make and sell.  It would work like that.

brilliant! 

 

[roadkill1292]

My point is, of those people actually in prison for dealing or buying drugs, how many of them would you say are only guilty of using/buying or selling?  It may not be what they were ultimately convicted of, but the majority of them have committed plenty of other crimes.  Many of them violent.  If you land in prison for a drug offense you likely have a rap-sheet a mile long, multiple other related or unrelated offenses, parole violations, etc. 

If you legalize all drug use it will negatively impact law enforcement's ability to remove these less productive members of society.

This is the kind of messed up logic we've been battling for 60 years.

 

[Cjw_55106]

This is the kind of messed up logic we've been battling for 60 years.

Good for you. You've lived a life without seeing the affects of crack or meth. You should be happy. 

 

[Grahamburn]

This is the kind of messed up logic we've been battling for 60 years.

Brother in law is on a special drug task force unit. 

 

[roadkill1292]

Good for you. You've lived a life without seeing the affects of crack or meth. You should be happy. 

Sounds like more of a medical problem than a criminal one to me.

Brother in law is on a special drug task force unit. 

Hammer meets nail with all the associated thought processes.

 

[whoknew]

My point is, of those people actually in prison for dealing or buying drugs, how many of them would you say are only guilty of using/buying or selling?  It may not be what they were ultimately convicted of, but the majority of them have committed plenty of other crimes.  Many of them violent.  If you land in prison for a drug offense you likely have a rap-sheet a mile long, multiple other related or unrelated offenses, parole violations, etc. 

If you legalize all drug use it will negatively impact law enforcement's ability to remove these less productive members of society.

This is nuts. If you want to punish someone for committing a violent crime, then do it. Very few people will disagree.

But don't punish them for taking drugs because they probably committed another crime. That's insane.

 

[Grahamburn]

Hammer meets nail with all the associated thought processes.

Pretty much.  First hand knowledge of what some of these scumbags are capable of to get their fix.

 

[Grahamburn]

This is nuts. If you want to punish someone for committing a violent crime, then do it. Very few people will disagree.

But don't punish them for taking drugs because they probably committed another crime. That's insane.

If you land in prison for a drug offense you likely have a rap-sheet a mile long, multiple other related or unrelated offenses, parole violations, etc.

Nobody is in prison for smoking pot on their couch.

 

[whoknew]

Nobody is in prison for smoking pot on their couch.

1) You don't know that.

2) I'm not sure how that is relevant.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Pretty much.  First hand knowledge of what some of these scumbags are capable of to get their fix.

Approximately 60% of individuals arrested for most types of crimes test positive for illegal drugs at arrest.

 

[Slapdash]

Nobody is in prison for smoking pot on their couch.

Wrong!

 

[roadkill1292]

Approximately 60% of individuals arrested for most types of crimes test positive for illegal drugs at arrest.

Explain to me how keeping the drugs illegal reduces crime. If the rationale is that it's easier to get a first interdiction because of the drug use, that's pretty screwed up.

 

[Grahamburn]

Wrong!

I guess I'd love to read about these individual incidents, how the arrest was made, and how it was prosecuted then.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Explain to me how keeping the drugs illegal reduces crime. If the rationale is that it's easier to get a first interdiction because of the drug use, that's pretty screwed up.

Explain to me how the pros to making drugs legal outweighs the cons. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Approximately 60% of individuals arrested for most types of crimes test positive for illegal drugs at arrest.

My favorite kind of is the kind you don't even need to google to know it's

I googled it anyway, best I could find was two advocacy groups restating this fact without links or citation.  So I dug a little further, and the source of this appears to be this study, which surveys only adult males in ten urban areas. I suspect that including women and suburban/rural areas would lower that number significantly.

Also it's mostly marijuana that produces this result (45%, so approximately 3/4ths of the positive tests).  I bet if you polled adult men in their 20s and 30s in urban areas for regular use of marijuana the numbers might not be much lower than 45% regardless of criminal status.

 

[roadkill1292]

Explain to me how the pros to making drugs legal outweighs the cons. 

I don't know what the cons are. So everything.

 

[PIK95]

Start hiding weed.  We will definitely be going backwards now on this issue for a while.

 

[Grahamburn]

Explain to me how keeping the drugs illegal reduces crime. If the rationale is that it's easier to get a first interdiction because of the drug use, that's pretty screwed up.

Much easier to arrest, prosecute, and convict on a drug offense than it is to catch someone in the act of committing other crimes. 

 

[joffer]

Much easier to arrest, prosecute, and convict on a drug offense than it is to catch someone in the act of committing other crimes. 

you almost sound happy that we incarcerate one quarter of the world's prisoners.

 

[roadkill1292]

Much easier to arrest, prosecute, and convict on a drug offense than it is to catch someone in the act of committing other crimes. 

It doesn't sound like a good policy for U.S. citizens when we use a non-crime to arrest, prosecute and convict people because we want to get them for other crimes committed. That's pretty un-American.

 

[whoknew]

Much easier to arrest, prosecute, and convict on a drug offense than it is to catch someone in the act of committing other crimes. 

 

[Sabertooth]

I think all drugs should be legal.  I dont get the mentality of punishing drug users with prison.  If people cant use responsibly they should be treated in a hospital or rehab center.  This country could have some amazing facilities to treat people with problems if they would just shift the focus from punishment to treatment.  I would feel better if our tax dollars were going to help people rather than punish them.  The whole thing is just plain stupid and it shows how we are still nowhere as a society.  I should have a right to put any substance I want into my body without the government sniffing around my business.  I'm not talking about people who use and then drive a car down a crowded sidewalk.  I'm talking about me, as a responsible user, who will not endanger anyone else while high.  I stay home on my couch and use (just weed)-- but this is illegal and I could be arrested for it.  People think we have advanced with all the technology, etc but there will come a time when people will look back on this time in history and shake their head at how stupid and unnecessary this whole drug policy of the last 35 years and counting.

What really needs to happen is the higher ups in government need to be pushed by the medical lobby to do this.  Currently the prison lobby is stronger and thus we have the stupid laws we do.  If politicians can see the dollar signs, it will change.  If they can't, it won't.  We have the best laws money can buy.  The medical and prison industries have no stake in helping people.  They are there to make money just like agriculture or construction.  No altruistic intent exists.  It is a business.  Appeal to that. 

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

We have spent more than $1 trillion dollars on a failed war on drugs over the last 40 years.  In 1980 we had roughly 50,000 people behind bars for drug law violations and now we have more than 500,000.  Drugs are readily available to anyone that wants them.  Our drug policies in this country have been an abject failure.  It is completely insane not to be open to exploring a radically different approach.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It doesn't sound like a good policy for U.S. citizens when we use a non-crime to arrest, prosecute and convict people because we want to get them for other crimes committed. That's pretty un-American.

Or, in another respect, as American as apple pie.  Please enjoy this delightful Harper's excerpt:
 

In 1994, John Ehrlichman, the Watergate co-conspirator, unlocked for me one of the great mysteries of modern American history: How did the United States entangle itself in a policy of drug prohibition that has yielded so much misery and so few good results? Americans have been criminalizing psychoactive substances since San Francisco’s anti-opium law of 1875, but it was Ehrlichman’s boss, Richard Nixon, who declared the first “war on drugs” and set the country on the wildly punitive and counterproductive path it still pursues. I’d tracked Ehrlichman, who had been Nixon’s domestic-policy adviser, to an engineering firm in Atlanta, where he was working on minority recruitment. I barely recognized him. He was much heavier than he’d been at the time of the Watergate scandal two decades earlier, and he wore a mountain-man beard that extended to the middle of his chest.

At the time, I was writing a book about the politics of drug prohibition. I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

I must have looked shocked. Ehrlichman just shrugged. Then he looked at his watch, handed me a signed copy of his steamy spy novel, The Company, and led me to the door.

Nixon’s invention of the war on drugs as a political tool was cynical, but every president since — Democrat and Republican alike — has found it equally useful for one reason or another.

Worth keeping this quote in mind as we wait to see what direction Trump and Sessions will take with the War on Drugs.

 

[tonydead]

The users who can't do it responsibly are the same people committing the vast majority of crimes in this country so they can pay for their habit.  The guy mugging people for their wallet or breaking into your house is typically doing that to buy drugs. 

You know that we are all on the internet that is full of data that shows this is flat out wrong, don't you?  

 

[Grahamburn]

We have spent more than $1 trillion dollars on a failed war on drugs over the last 40 years.  In 1980 we had roughly 50,000 people behind bars for drug law violations and now we have more than 500,000.  Drugs are readily available to anyone that wants them.  Our drug policies in this country have been an abject failure.  It is completely insane not to be open to exploring a radically different approach.

And if we were to legalize all drug use and simultaneously release all 500,000 of those people who have been incarcerated for drug related offenses would our crime rates go up, down, or remain stagnant? 

 

[Grahamburn]

You know that we are all on the internet that is full of data that shows this is flat out wrong, don't you?  

Enlighten me.

 

[whoknew]

And if we were to legalize all drug use and simultaneously release all 500,000 of those people who have been incarcerated for drug related offenses would our crime rates go up, down, or remain stagnant? 

It would go down by 40%.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don't know what the cons are. So everything.

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? 

 

[tonydead]

Enlighten me.

Go take a look at crime rates in the Netherlands. 

 

[Grahamburn]

It would go down by 40%.

Why not just eliminate laws altogether?  We'd have the best crime rates on the planet.