What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

I like L. Jordan in 2005 (1 Viewer)

I did some more digging and looked into how RB have done on Minnesota while Moss was there . . .1998: Team Rank: 11th in rushing yards/9th in rushing TDTop Back: Robert Smith (12)1999: Team rank: 14th in rushing yards/11th in rushing TDTop Backs: Robert Smith (23)/Leroy Hoarde (22)2000: Team Rank: 6th in rushing yards/16th in rushing TDTop Back: Robert Smith (7)2001: Team Rank: 25th in rushing yards/21st in rushing TDTop Back: Michael Bennett (25)2002: Team Rank: 1st in rushing yards/1st in rushing TDTop Backs: Michael Bennett (17)/Moe Williams (29)2003: Team Rank: 4th in rushing/12th in rushing TDTop Backs: Moe Williams (13)2004: Team Rank: 18th in rushing yards/29th in rushing TDTop Back: Onterrio Smith (31)Not surprisingly, the year the Vikes dominated on the ground, Randy Moss had far and away his lowest total for TD (7) compared to all others years of 10 or more.And Minnesota's points allowed rankings were 6, 18, 24, 26, 30, 23, 26. On defense, Minnesota has been pretty poor--much like the Raiders have been.If this tells me anything, it's that it may be unlikely that BOTH Moss and Jordan have phenomenal seasons. I don't see both of them having big TD scoring seasons.(Yes, I know, that Minnesota was then and Oakland is now, and I also know that Turner has a different philosophy than the Vikings have.)

 
While I do agree that Jordan's not a lock to become a top 10-20 back, to even speculate that he "might not be able to carry the load" is silly. If that was the case, then we'd be skeptical of every rookie back entering the NFL. None of them has ever "carried the load" in the NFL either. Lamont played just as much in college as any other back. I look only at his situation and talent. I think his talent is above average (greater than Rudy, less than Deuce), but his situation is just ok. I love the O, but the D scares me a round or so. I'd take Lamont late 3rd.
Thank you. By saying you'd take him late 3rd kind of proved my point. He shouldn't be picked in the 2nd round, which was the point of my post. "might not be able to carry the load" was just one of the possible concerns I'd have about him and that there will be other backs in the 2nd round that will be better picks. And yes I would be "skeptical" about any rookie any rb in the 2nd round, especially this year when there are so many proven backs that aren't in a rbbc situation. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take them in the 3rd or 4th round, but in most cases there are 15 to 18 other rbs I'd take first that are less risky.
 
I'm not going to provide a prediction for Jordan (it's too early), but IMO we really have no idea how Jordan will perform as a featured back. His sample size is so distorted (very few carries over a long time frame). I will provide the information, and you all can come to your own conclusions.

Lamont Jordan has a 4.9 ypc in 262 carries in 4 years as a backup. Compare that to:

Guys that Looked Medicocre:

Rudi Johnson (3.9 ypc in 17 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Jamal Anderson (3.9 ypc in 41 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Tiki Barber (3.7 ypc in 250 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Reuben Droughns (2.4 ypc in 40 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Chris Warren (1.8 ypc in 30 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Guys that Looked Like Studs:

Lamar Smith (5.6 ypc in 38 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Napoleon Kaufman (5.3 ypc in 258 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Trung Canidate (5.1 ypc in 98 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Troy Hambrick (4.7 ypc in 198 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Amos Zereoue (4.6 ypc in 109 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Travis Minor (4.5 ypc in 144 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One:

Ahman Green (5.4 ypc in 61 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Deuce McAllister (5.7 ypc in 16 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Guys that Looked Great but Never Really Got a Shot:

Michael Wily (6.2 ypc in 81 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Maurice Morris (5.2 ypc in 100 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Najeh Davenport (5.1 ypc in 187 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Brian Mitchell (5.1 ypc in 388 carries in 14 years)

De'Mond Parker (5.0 ypc in 54 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Michael Basnight (5.0 ypc in 62 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Jerry Ellison (5.0 ypc in 74 carries in 4 years as a backup)

Kenny Watson (4.9 ypc in 142 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Richard Huntley (4.7 ypc in 365 carries in 6 years as a backup)

Dominic Rhodes (4.7 ypc in 323 carries in 4 seasons as a backup)

Terry Jackson (4.7 ypc in 68 carries in 4 seasons as a backup)

Sedrick Shaw (4.7 ypc in 55 carries in 4 years as a backup)

Kimble Anders (4.6 ypc in 495 carries in 10 years as a backup)

Derrick Blaylock (4.6 ypc in 156 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Aveion Cason (4.6 ypc in 77 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Verron Hayes (4.5 ypc in 85 carries in 3 years as a backup)

In 66 career games (including the post-season), Jordan has ONE game with 20 carries. And he's had only 2 others with 15 carries.
One thing that stands out are the type of RB's that are "Guys that Looked Like Studs" and "Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One" was the size. The ones who didn't turn into studs were small backs and the ones that did turn into studs (Green and McAllister) are bigger - like Jordan.
 
I'm not going to provide a prediction for Jordan (it's too early), but IMO we really have no idea how Jordan will perform as a featured back. His sample size is so distorted (very few carries over a long time frame). I will provide the information, and you all can come to your own conclusions.

Lamont Jordan has a 4.9 ypc in 262 carries in 4 years as a backup. Compare that to:

Guys that Looked Medicocre:

Rudi Johnson (3.9 ypc in 17 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Jamal Anderson (3.9 ypc in 41 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Tiki Barber (3.7 ypc in 250 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Reuben Droughns (2.4 ypc in 40 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Chris Warren (1.8 ypc in 30 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Guys that Looked Like Studs:

Lamar Smith (5.6 ypc in 38 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Napoleon Kaufman (5.3 ypc in 258 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Trung Canidate (5.1 ypc in 98 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Troy Hambrick (4.7 ypc in 198 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Amos Zereoue (4.6 ypc in 109 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Travis Minor (4.5 ypc in 144 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One:

Ahman Green (5.4 ypc in 61 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Deuce McAllister (5.7 ypc in 16 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Guys that Looked Great but Never Really Got a Shot:

Michael Wily (6.2 ypc in 81 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Maurice Morris (5.2 ypc in 100 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Najeh Davenport (5.1 ypc in 187 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Brian Mitchell (5.1 ypc in 388 carries in 14 years)

De'Mond Parker (5.0 ypc in 54 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Michael Basnight (5.0 ypc in 62 carries in 1 year as a backup)

Jerry Ellison (5.0 ypc in 74 carries in 4 years as a backup)

Kenny Watson (4.9 ypc in 142 carries in 2 years as a backup)

Richard Huntley (4.7 ypc in 365 carries in 6 years as a backup)

Dominic Rhodes (4.7 ypc in 323 carries in 4 seasons as a backup)

Terry Jackson (4.7 ypc in 68 carries in 4 seasons as a backup)

Sedrick Shaw (4.7 ypc in 55 carries in 4 years as a backup)

Kimble Anders (4.6 ypc in 495 carries in 10 years as a backup)

Derrick Blaylock (4.6 ypc in 156 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Aveion Cason (4.6 ypc in 77 carries in 3 years as a backup)

Verron Hayes (4.5 ypc in 85 carries in 3 years as a backup)

In 66 career games (including the post-season), Jordan has ONE game with 20 carries. And he's had only 2 others with 15 carries.
One thing that stands out are the type of RB's that are "Guys that Looked Like Studs" and "Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One" was the size. The ones who didn't turn into studs were small backs and the ones that did turn into studs (Green and McAllister) are bigger - like Jordan.
:thumbup: good post. I know I am extremely high on L.Jordan but watching this guy run I can't help but see how he won't turn into a stud. He is explosive, quick and barring injuries I see him in the top 15 for sure next year.I still have not read one good post as to why he will not be a top 15 back next season. I want someone to justify L.Jordan not being a top 15 back next season. Please take into account everything. His size, speed, skill, recieving capablities, NFL experience (compared to rookies and other young backs), coach, offense he will be playing in, goal line work etc. I have seen many of you put backs like S.Jackson etc, ahead of him, please justify this???

 
I'm not going to provide a prediction for Jordan (it's too early), but IMO we really have no idea how Jordan will perform as a featured back.  His sample size is so distorted (very few carries over a long time frame).  I will provide the information, and you all can come to your own conclusions.

Lamont Jordan has a 4.9 ypc in 262 carries in 4 years as a backup.  Compare that to:

Guys that Looked Medicocre:

Rudi Johnson (3.9 ypc in 17 carries in 1 year as a backup) 5'10", 220

Jamal Anderson (3.9 ypc in 41 carries in 2 years as a backup) 5'11", 237

Tiki Barber (3.7 ypc in 250 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'10", 220

Reuben Droughns (2.4 ypc in 40 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'11", 207

Chris Warren (1.8 ypc in 30 carries in 2 years as a backup) 6'2", 227

Guys that Looked Like Studs:

Lamar Smith (5.6 ypc in 38 carries in 2 years as a backup) 5'11", 235

Napoleon Kaufman (5.3 ypc in 258 carries in 2 years as a backup) 5'9", 185

Trung Canidate (5.1 ypc in 98 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'11", 205

Troy Hambrick (4.7 ypc in 198 carries in 3 years as a backup) 6'1", 233

Amos Zereoue (4.6 ypc in 109 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'8", 205

Travis Minor (4.5 ypc in 144 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'10", 205

Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One:

Ahman Green (5.4 ypc in 61 carries in 2 years as a backup) 6'0", 218

Deuce McAllister (5.7 ypc in 16 carries in 1 year as a backup) 6'1", 232

Guys that Looked Great but Never Really Got a Shot:

Michael Wiley (6.2 ypc in 81 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'11", 203

Maurice Morris (5.2 ypc in 100 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'11", 202

Najeh Davenport (5.1 ypc in 187 carries in 3 years as a backup) 6'1, 250

Brian Mitchell (5.1 ypc in 388 carries in 14 years) 5'11, 225

De'Mond Parker (5.0 ypc in 54 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'10", 185

Michael Basnight (5.0 ypc in 62 carries in 1 year as a backup) 6'1", 235

Jerry Ellison (5.0 ypc in 74 carries in 4 years as a backup) 5'10, 207

Kenny Watson (4.9 ypc in 142 carries in 2 years as a backup) 5'11. 218

Richard Huntley (4.7 ypc in 365 carries in 6 years as a backup) 5'11", 225

Dominic Rhodes (4.7 ypc in 323 carries in 4 seasons as a backup) 5'9", 203

Terry Jackson (4.7 ypc in 68 carries in 4 seasons as a backup) 6'0", 232

Sedrick Shaw (4.7 ypc in 55 carries in 4 years as a backup) 6'0", 214

Kimble Anders (4.6 ypc in 495 carries in 10 years as a backup) 5'11", 218

Derrick Blaylock (4.6 ypc in 156 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'9", 195

Aveion Cason (4.6 ypc in 77 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'10", 204

Verron Hayes (4.5 ypc in 85 carries in 3 years as a backup) 5'10", 224

In 66 career games (including the post-season), Jordan has ONE game with 20 carries.  And he's had only 2 others with 15 carries. 5'10", 230
One thing that stands out are the type of RB's that are "Guys that Looked Like Studs" and "Guys that Looked Like Studs and Turned into One" was the size. The ones who didn't turn into studs were small backs and the ones that did turn into studs (Green and McAllister) are bigger - like Jordan.
I went ahead and added the heights and weights of each player. Upon further review, I'm not sure that tells us much. It seems like there was a pretty diverse range in each grouping. There were 2 of 7 in the "made it" category that were 230 lbs. There were 5 of 22 in the other 2 categories that were 230 lbs. I'm not sure we can make any conclusions one way or another.
 
:thumbup: good post. I know I am extremely high on L.Jordan but watching this guy run I can't help but see how he won't turn into a stud. He is explosive, quick and barring injuries I see him in the top 15 for sure next year.

I still have not read one good post as to why he will not be a top 15 back next season. I want someone to justify L.Jordan not being a top 15 back next season. Please take into account everything. His size, speed, skill, recieving capablities, NFL experience (compared to rookies and other young backs), coach, offense he will be playing in, goal line work etc. I have seen many of you put backs like S.Jackson etc, ahead of him, please justify this???

Because S. Jackson is just as big, fast and skilled as Lamont Jordan. If you went to live CFFL trip for the Rams vs Seahawks game last year you would have seen just how good Jackson is :D . We haven't really seen Jordan's receiving skills btw since he hasn't played that much. Jackson has a year in the Rams offense so he will be better prepared.

Most people are saying that Jordan could be a top 15 back next, it's just that there are 20-25 backs that have just as good of a chance to be top 15. And most of the have proven themselves. Also the Raiders oline, including mediocre rbs, was part of the reason they were the worst rushing team last year and there is no guarantee that they'll be that much better next even with their two high draft picks last year. You're basing your predictions on Jordan on his potential. While people who are down on him are making their predictions based on the history of backs who had potential and failed. History is not on your side.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I might have to agree with you that Steven Jackson may be as talented as Jordan, although I don't think he runs quite as hard. Their situation is what separates them . Jackson will be lucky to receive 20 touches a game next year. Faulk will steal at least 5 carries a game, and will be on the field for third downs. Although Jackson is decent out of the backfield, there is no way he has receiving skills comparable to Faulk. Also, Martz has always been a pass first coach, and has been known to abandon the run for long stretches, even when leading. Jordan will possibly have 400 touches this season. There is no one to steal carries or receptions from him, and he will never leave the field. Also, Norv has always been a run first coach, and loves to establish a power running game. Jordan fits in this system perfectly. As usual, it comes down to situation rather than talent. Put Jackson on the Raiders, and Jordan on the Rams, and I would rank Jackson in the top 10 and Jordan in the second tier. But that is not the case.

 
I might have to agree with you that Steven Jackson may be as talented as Jordan, although I don't think he runs quite as hard. Their situation is what separates them .

Jackson will be lucky to receive 20 touches a game next year. Faulk will steal at least 5 carries a game, and will be on the field for third downs. Although Jackson is decent out of the backfield, there is no way he has receiving skills comparable to Faulk. Also, Martz has always been a pass first coach, and has been known to abandon the run for long stretches, even when leading.

Jordan will possibly have 400 touches this season. There is no one to steal carries or receptions from him, and he will never leave the field. Also, Norv has always been a run first coach, and loves to establish a power running game. Jordan fits in this system perfectly.

As usual, it comes down to situation rather than talent. Put Jackson on the Raiders, and Jordan on the Rams, and I would rank Jackson in the top 10 and Jordan in the second tier. But that is not the case.
This is exactly my point. I know how talented Jackson is and he is going to be a stud someday but like mentioned byJedi he just is not in the same circumstance as L.Jordan. That is specifically why I asked how anyone can Jackson's situation is better then L. Jordans. Also, I have Jordan ranked ahead of J.Jones, T. Barber, C. Brown all guys who are good backs but don't have the same situation as Jordan is walking into.
 
What about Norv changing his own philosophy and playing his offensive scheme to the players he has now?  There's a lot of talk about Turner riding RBs, but bottom line is you don't run the ball the majority of the time with Moss and Porter lining up at WR.  He knew he had no running game last year so he started to throw the ball around in the 2nd half.

Same way Billick was an offensive guy, but his personnel now forces him to play conservative on O and win with defense.

Jordan will not be relied upon as the guy on that offense.  IMO Collins will be relied upon to get the ball downfield to Moss/Porter more than Jordan's legs will be.
:rotflmao: You're trying to tell me that after Norv got fired in Washington and led the Dolphins to two straight years out of the playoffs due to not adjusting his offense to the players he has, Norv is going to change his tune?

That's classic.

Norv is a zebra whose stripes will not change. He's not half the coach Billick is, either. The signing of Jordan proves that Norv believes he needs to run first *even* when he has the likes of Porter and Moss.
Yes, after Wash and Miami, why wouldn't he learn? I'm not saying he will learn, but one has to take that possibility into account.Oak's run/pass ratio was approx. 35/65 last year. While it is difficult to isolate the effect of a poor run-blocking line, you'd have to assume at least part was due to play calling choice - they had a better passing v. running game.

 
I might have to agree with you that Steven Jackson may be as talented as Jordan, although I don't think he runs quite as hard. Their situation is what separates them .

Jackson will be lucky to receive 20 touches a game next year. Faulk will steal at least 5 carries a game, and will be on the field for third downs. Although Jackson is decent out of the backfield, there is no way he has receiving skills comparable to Faulk. Also, Martz has always been a pass first coach, and has been known to abandon the run for long stretches, even when leading.

Jordan will possibly have 400 touches this season. There is no one to steal carries or receptions from him, and he will never leave the field. Also, Norv has always been a run first coach, and loves to establish a power running game. Jordan fits in this system perfectly.

As usual, it comes down to situation rather than talent. Put Jackson on the Raiders, and Jordan on the Rams, and I would rank Jackson in the top 10 and Jordan in the second tier. But that is not the case.
This is exactly my point. I know how talented Jackson is and he is going to be a stud someday but like mentioned byJedi he just is not in the same circumstance as L.Jordan. That is specifically why I asked how anyone can Jackson's situation is better then L. Jordans. Also, I have Jordan ranked ahead of J.Jones, T. Barber, C. Brown all guys who are good backs but don't have the same situation as Jordan is walking into.
Steven Jackson had 134 carries for 673 for 5.0 yds/carry last year in a passing team and behind a hall of famer. Similar stats to Jordan's. He's been promoted to starter and while he may not be in 3rd down situations, he'll be at the goalline the majority of the time. Marshall Faulk thrived in this type of offfense when he was healthy getting his rushing yards and tds. Look at the last few games of last season when they were in the playoff hunt. Jackson did pretty damn well. Jackson won't get the receiving yards but he will get his rushing yds and tds. Just like you guys are high on Jordan, I don't think it's unreasonable for Jackson to get 1200-1300 yds and 8-10 tds. Jordan could get that as well but his situation is no guarantee that he will. I think people overrate the team situation too much. Just because a team looks good on paper doesn't mean that they will function that way on the field. Duce Staley is in a power running situation, where do you rank him w/o Jerome Bettis? I don't think anyone predicted C. Martin and T. Barber would have finished in the top 5 last year so it's all possible for you to be right about Jordan, but you act like it's a guarantee for him to be awesome when he has the same question marks as everyone else.Also there is no compelling reason why Jordan should be ranked ahead of guys like Jackson, J. Jones, Barber and Brown. Jones will be ridden like a horse by Parcells. No difference in situation from Norv Turner. Tiki Barber has shown he can thrive in bad situations like Warner and Manning. Manning can only get better next year just like you guys are saying Oak defense and Oline will get better. And if C. Brown were healthy last year, he might have won the rushing title in any situation. He'll be healthier this year as he learns to take care of his body. It just doesn't make any sense to rank Jordan higher than these guys.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I might have to agree with you that Steven Jackson may be as talented as Jordan, although I don't think he runs quite as hard. Their situation is what separates them .

Jackson will be lucky to receive 20 touches a game next year. Faulk will steal at least 5 carries a game, and will be on the field for third downs. Although Jackson is decent out of the backfield, there is no way he has receiving skills comparable to Faulk. Also, Martz has always been a pass first coach, and has been known to abandon the run for long stretches, even when leading.

Jordan will possibly have 400 touches this season. There is no one to steal carries or receptions from him, and he will never leave the field. Also, Norv has always been a run first coach, and loves to establish a power running game. Jordan fits in this system perfectly.

As usual, it comes down to situation rather than talent. Put Jackson on the Raiders, and Jordan on the Rams, and I would rank Jackson in the top 10 and Jordan in the second tier. But that is not the case.
This is exactly my point. I know how talented Jackson is and he is going to be a stud someday but like mentioned byJedi he just is not in the same circumstance as L.Jordan. That is specifically why I asked how anyone can Jackson's situation is better then L. Jordans. Also, I have Jordan ranked ahead of J.Jones, T. Barber, C. Brown all guys who are good backs but don't have the same situation as Jordan is walking into.
Steven Jackson had 134 carries for 673 for 5.0 yds/carry last year in a passing team and behind a hall of famer. Similar stats to Jordan's. He's been promoted to starter and while he may not be in 3rd down situations, he'll be at the goalline the majority of the time. Marshall Faulk thrived in this type of offfense when he was healthy getting his rushing yards and tds. Look at the last few games of last season when they were in the playoff hunt. Jackson did pretty damn well. Jackson won't get the receiving yards but he will get his rushing yds and tds. Just like you guys are high on Jordan, I don't think it's unreasonable for Jackson to get 1200-1300 yds and 8-10 tds. Jordan could get that as well but his situation is no guarantee that he will. I think people overrate the team situation too much. Just because a team looks good on paper doesn't mean that they will function that way on the field. Duce Staley is in a power running situation, where do you rank him w/o Jerome Bettis? I don't think anyone predicted C. Martin and T. Barber would have finished in the top 5 last year so it's all possible for you to be right about Jordan, but you act like it's a guarantee for him to be awesome when he has the same question marks as everyone else.Also there is no compelling reason why Jordan should be ranked ahead of guys like Jackson, J. Jones, Barber and Brown. Jones will be ridden like a horse by Parcells. No difference in situation from Norv Turner. Tiki Barber has shown he can thrive in bad situations like Warner and Manning. Manning can only get better next year just like you guys are saying Oak defense and Oline will get better. And if C. Brown were healthy last year, he might have won the rushing title in any situation. He'll be healthier this year as he learns to take care of his body. It just doesn't make any sense to rank Jordan higher than these guys.
It makes perfect sense to rank him ahead of these guys, just as it makes a little bit of sense for you to rank those guys ahead of him. You see it one way and I see it another way. Its just hard justifying how these guys will get more fantasy points then him next season for these reasons:

Jackson is great but will only be a true stud once M.Faulk retires. Because, St.Louis throws the ball with a greater ratio probably more then any other team in the nfl and when you are throwing the ball would you rather have M.Faulk coming out of the backfield to catch it or S.Jackson??

J.Jones only had three good games last year and is playing in a system where he will get a lot of touches but his question marks are high, especially with R.Lee and E.George there, both of these guys are vouchers. I don't know if E.George will still be there or what Dallas' situation is with him but I know Parcells likes R.Lee who is also a young back with some potential.

T.Barber had a great fantasy season last year, however; he is one year older and Coughlin last year wanted to use a goal line back other then Barber but R.Dayne failed miserably so I am assuming the Giants will bring some one in for that role to keep Tiki fresh as what was supposed to happen last year. In 2003 Tiki had only 5 TD's combined and only 2 were rushing so I assume his role at the goal line will again be diminished with one more year on his legs.

C.Brown is a good back but his up straight up running stlye has caused him injury ever since college and this trend occured again last season in his first year as a starter. I know one of his injuries was turf toe which has nothing to do with straight up running style but this was not his only injury last season and his toughness is definelty in question. He proved that he is a good back but gambling with his injuries is something I don't want to do.

LaMont Jordan things going for him. Hungry to prove himself, and is playing for a team that will show why they went out and aquired him. He is someone who I feel comfortable drafting before any of the above rb's.

 
Ha ha. Wow Vince Can Fly, I didn't realize how much having Lamont Jordan as a keeper is clouding your judgment on this subject, heck look at your avatar for pete sake. Get a grip already. You really need to seperate your ownership of Lamont from your decision making, its getting outta hand. Yes you are excited about having Jordan, but saying he is "a top 15 back and 2nd rounder FOR SURE"? LOLI laugh at Oakland. They went and signed Lamont Jordan for 5 years at 27.5 million and then the Jets just go around and sign Blaylock for 5 years for 11 million. Lamont Jordan is worth 16.5 more million dollars than Blaylock?? I think not. In a time when Oakland needed to strengthen their team on defense, they go out and sign a backup RB for 27.5 million. Thats some nice decision making.

I still have not read one good post as to why he will not be a top 15 back next season. I want someone to justify L.Jordan not being a top 15 back next season.
I have not read one convincing post about how Lamont will be a top 15 back. Could you show me your rankings of where Lamont lands and who you put him above, I am curious. You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.AlexanderHolmesTomlinsonEdgerrinJ. LewisDillonDeuce GreenF. TaylorBarberMartinDavisPortisRudiWestbrookMcGaheeAnd Other RBs who would be ranked around the same.Julius JonesDuce StaleyBrownJacksonDunnKevin JonesThomas JonesPittmanTatum BellFosterAny of the 3 big RB rookies who get drafted into a starter positionThats 28 RBs right there who could very well do better than Lamont and that wouldn't even be a stretch if many of them were. I can't believe you are honestly sitting there and saying that Lamont will be a top 15 back FOR SURE. You need to stop ranking him on "potential". Now add in the Premiere WRs and Premiere QBs and you are getting to around the end of the 3rd round. In no way is Lamont a 2nd round selection, well I guess if its a 30 team league. :)
J.Jones only had three good games last year and is playing in a system where he will get a lot of touches but his question marks are high, especially with R.Lee and E.George there, both of these guys are vouchers. I don't know if E.George will still be there or what Dallas' situation is with him but I know Parcells likes R.Lee who is also a young back with some potential.
YOU JUST LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!!! LOLYou are saying that Rashard Lee will see playing time with Julius Jones healthy? Ha ha. Ummm....What the heck would you know about Parcells liking Rashard Lee..... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I can't believe how much Lamont Jordan changing teams has made you think like a guppy now.
Jackson is great but will only be a true stud once M.Faulk retires. Because, St.Louis throws the ball with a greater ratio probably more then any other team in the nfl and when you are throwing the ball would you rather have M.Faulk coming out of the backfield to catch it or S.Jackson??
Guess what team will throw the ball tons with randy Moss and Jerry Porter as their WRs? Oh thats right, the team that Jordan plays for. And guess who is a great back in receiving situations....Zereoue. Oakland passed the ball 65 out of 100 plays last year. This may decline due to Lamont coming in, but whos to say it would change with Moss coming in as well.
C.Brown is a good back but his up straight up running stlye has caused him injury ever since college and this trend occured again last season in his first year as a starter..
What injuries has his upright running style caused? I think I must have you mistaken for someone who pretends they know what they are talking about and makes stuff up to prove their point.
LaMont Jordan things going for him. Hungry to prove himself, and is playing for a team that will show why they went out and aquired him. He is someone who I feel comfortable drafting before any of the above rb's.
But Oakland probably won't want to show off their other signings in one of the best WRs in the game and Porter...right? And I'm sure other players in the NFL aren't hungry or out there to prove themselves. LOL
T.Barber had a great fantasy season last year, however; he is one year older and Coughlin last year wanted to use a goal line back other then Barber but R.Dayne failed miserably so I am assuming the Giants will bring some one in for that role to keep Tiki fresh as what was supposed to happen last year. In 2003 Tiki had only 5 TD's combined and only 2 were rushing so I assume his role at the goal line will again be diminished with one more year on his legs.
You are ranking a Backup RB going into the worst rushing team in the league ahead of the 2nd best fantasy RB in the league last year. :thumbup: Good thinking!!Tiki has quashed his fumbling problems and has done fine on the goaline. Oakland may have released Wheatley, but they still have Crockett, the goal line and short yardage machine.
I know I am extremely high on L.Jordan but watching this guy run I can't help but see how he won't turn into a stud
Stop talking like you are a scout and know Jordan from watching him play. I was there with you on every Sunday and it was very rare to have any Jets games on the tv. You are not a "professional" :rotflmao: Thanks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ha ha. Wow Vince Can Fly, I didn't realize how much having Lamont Jordan as a keeper is clouding your judgment on this subject, heck look at your avatar for pete sake. Get a grip already. You really need to seperate your ownership of Lamont from your decision making, its getting outta hand. Yes you are excited about having Jordan, but saying he is "a top 15 back and 2nd rounder FOR SURE"? LOL

I laugh at Oakland. They went and signed Lamont Jordan for 5 years at 27.5 million and then the Jets just go around and sign Blaylock for 5 years for 11 million. Lamont Jordan is worth 16.5 more million dollars than Blaylock?? I think not. In a time when Oakland needed to strengthen their team on defense, they go out and sign a backup RB for 27.5 million. Thats some nice decision making.

I still have not read one good post as to why he will not be a top 15 back next season. I want someone to justify L.Jordan not being a top 15 back next season.
I have not read one convincing post about how Lamont will be a top 15 back. Could you show me your rankings of where Lamont lands and who you put him above, I am curious. You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee

And Other RBs who would be ranked around the same.

Julius Jones

Duce Staley

Brown

Jackson

Dunn

Kevin Jones

Thomas Jones

Pittman

Tatum Bell

Foster

Any of the 3 big RB rookies who get drafted into a starter position

Thats 28 RBs right there who could very well do better than Lamont and that wouldn't even be a stretch if many of them were. I can't believe you are honestly sitting there and saying that Lamont will be a top 15 back FOR SURE. You need to stop ranking him on "potential".

Now add in the Premiere WRs and Premiere QBs and you are getting to around the end of the 3rd round. In no way is Lamont a 2nd round selection, well I guess if its a 30 team league. :)

J.Jones only had three good games last year and is playing in a system where he will get a lot of touches but his question marks are high, especially with R.Lee and E.George there, both of these guys are vouchers. I don't know if E.George will still be there or what Dallas' situation is with him but I know Parcells likes R.Lee who is also a young back with some potential.
YOU JUST LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!!! LOLYou are saying that Rashard Lee will see playing time with Julius Jones healthy? Ha ha. Ummm....What the heck would you know about Parcells liking Rashard Lee..... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I can't believe how much Lamont Jordan changing teams has made you think like a guppy now.

Jackson is great but will only be a true stud once M.Faulk retires. Because, St.Louis throws the ball with a greater ratio probably more then any other team in the nfl and when you are throwing the ball would you rather have M.Faulk coming out of the backfield to catch it or S.Jackson??
Guess what team will throw the ball tons with randy Moss and Jerry Porter as their WRs? Oh thats right, the team that Jordan plays for. And guess who is a great back in receiving situations....Zereoue. Oakland passed the ball 65 out of 100 plays last year. This may decline due to Lamont coming in, but whos to say it would change with Moss coming in as well.
C.Brown is a good back but his up straight up running stlye has caused him injury ever since college and this trend occured again last season in his first year as a starter..
What injuries has his upright running style caused? I think I must have you mistaken for someone who pretends they know what they are talking about and makes stuff up to prove their point.
LaMont Jordan things going for him. Hungry to prove himself, and is playing for a team that will show why they went out and aquired him. He is someone who I feel comfortable drafting before any of the above rb's.
But Oakland probably won't want to show off their other signings in one of the best WRs in the game and Porter...right? And I'm sure other players in the NFL aren't hungry or out there to prove themselves. LOL
T.Barber had a great fantasy season last year, however; he is one year older and Coughlin last year wanted to use a goal line back other then Barber but R.Dayne failed miserably so I am assuming the Giants will bring some one in for that role to keep Tiki fresh as what was supposed to happen last year.  In 2003 Tiki had only 5 TD's combined and only 2 were rushing so I assume his role at the goal line will again be diminished with one more year on his legs.
You are ranking a Backup RB going into the worst rushing team in the league ahead of the 2nd best fantasy RB in the league last year. :thumbup: Good thinking!!Tiki has quashed his fumbling problems and has done fine on the goaline. Oakland may have released Wheatley, but they still have Crockett, the goal line and short yardage machine.

I know I am extremely high on L.Jordan but watching this guy run I can't help but see how he won't turn into a stud
Stop talking like you are a scout and know Jordan from watching him play. I was there with you on every Sunday and it was very rare to have any Jets games on the tv. You are not a "professional" :rotflmao: Thanks.
Finally someone is making sense. Good luck convincing him with this logic though. I tried to list rb's that were better or safer picks and the comeback to that is apparently "you see it one way and I see it another" but I'm still right.
 
Interesting debate so far.What I get from this:Jordan will have a good YPC average, because the opposing D won't stack the box.Jordan won't get the majority of the goal line carries.Jordan won't get more than 20-25 carries a night.Let's say he has a 4.5 or even 5 YPC average, with 20-25 carries per game = 100 yards per game. We still haven't seen this 27 year old start, so we don't know if he can survive a season.He has "big play potential", at least when picking up after CMart has worn out the defense.Some will rank him as a "sure-thing" top 15 back.He'll go too early for me to get him in most leagues. Do any of these statements warrant debate?

 
Interesting debate so far.

What I get from this:

Jordan will have a good YPC average, because the opposing D won't stack the box.

Jordan won't get the majority of the goal line carries.

Jordan won't get more than 20-25 carries a night.

Let's say he has a 4.5 or even 5 YPC average, with 20-25 carries per game = 100 yards per game.

We still haven't seen this 27 year old start, so we don't know if he can survive a season.

He has "big play potential", at least when picking up after CMart has worn out the defense.

Some will rank him as a "sure-thing" top 15 back.

He'll go too early for me to get him in most leagues.

Do any of these statements warrant debate?
Maybe the point about the goal line carries, but overall that's about where I stand. With the 2005 season looking to be very deep at RB, I'll take a pass until the 3rd or 4th round.
 
QUOTE(Banger @ Mar 4 2005, 08:34 AM)QUOTE(chewybip @ Mar 4 2005, 07:37 AM)i can see jordan with 18+ tds this year. this is norv we are talking about here. this is one of the best situations for a rb IN THE HISTORY of the nfl if all (alot) of pieces fall into place...and they have.----18 TD's is crazy talk. Did they all the sudden get one of the best lines in the league? By the way only 2 rb's scored 18 TD or more last year, LT and Alexander.---I agree it would be crazy to predict Jordan having 18 TDs, but he's just saying that he could see it happening. Under Norv, either as an OC or a HC, there have been five backs get 17+ TDs (rushing and receiving).Terry Allen 21Emmitt Smith 19Stephen Davis 17Ricky Williams 17Ladainian Tomlinson 17Terry Allen, Stephen Davis, Ricky Williams, and Ladainian Tomlinson, so far, all had their best single season VBD under Norv. Emmitt had his second highest VBD season under Norv.
-------First off, the LT season of 17 TDs was not a season that Norv was with the Chargers. Norv was around for the previous season, LT's rookie year - 10Tds, but in 2002, he was with the Phins, mind you, that is when Ricky got 17Tds. Marty came in 2002 for that 17 TD season for LT.I was interested by these stats though that someone posted so looked at Run vs. Pass stats for the team leader in each position a bit closer during Norv's reigns in those great RB seasons:1992 Norv is OC of Cowboys: Emmitt Smith 1713/19- Michael Irvin - 1396/7 (not a career season for Irvin)1996 HC Redskins - Terry Allen 1353/21 - Henry Ellard 1014/2Tds only1999 HC Redskins - Stephen Davis 1405/17 - Westbrook - 1191/9, Connell 1132/72001 His Lone Season as OC for Chargers - LT - 1236/10 - Conway - 1125/62002 OC Dolphins - Ricky Williams - 1853/17 - Chambers - 734/3 onlyFor the most part, the seasons that Norv's RBs had great years, his WRs did not. But then again, he never really had the like of a Moss and Porter at the same time.1999 was the exception and the closest comparison to the current situation. For Lamont to have 17+ TDs as someone mentioned though, Norv will have to look at 1999 when he got production from his RB and two top WRs.I'm a Lamont owner and would love for him to have 17+TDs next season, but with Moss averaging 15TDs a season and Porter 8TDs, I think Lamont owners should expect closer to 8-10TDs, not 17+. The only way I could see it happening is if Moss goes down with an injury early.Regardless, the Raiders will be an exciting team to watch!
 
The only thing we know for sure about ranking the rb's this year and where lamont jordan fits in is that NOONE knows which rb's will do well and which ones will do horribly. Example: how many fbg's had tiki barber and curtis martin in the top 5 of their rankings going into last year?? Both of those guys were late 2nd early 3rd round picks in my semi-keeper/redraft league. The one thing about Lamont that noone is talking about is his lack of competition at that position. Fargas can't stay healthy EVER. Crockett is no longer the goal line back now that Norv is there. What did he have 2 rushing td's last year??You don't pay a back to a 27million dollar contract to have him riding pine. So what makes fantasy success? Talent and OPPORTUNITY....we don't know a whole lot about his talent yet, but he has a huge opportunity here.Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:S.Jackson--Faulk limits his opportunity someW.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QBM.Pittman--Gruden loves RBBC and Garner and Alstott is back. Not to mention they could be drafting a rbR.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.D.Foster--too many rb's in that system for him to get enough opportunity to do wellC.Brown--Tennesee just lost plenty of playmakers on offense not to mention he is injury proneA.Green--just lost 2 linemen and Favre may retireW.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crapC.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylockD.Staley--If Bettis is there you get nothing but yardage from DuceWith those questionmarks I could see taking Lamont in the 2nd round as rb2. He has the most opportunity, good enough talent around him...talent is still in question but that is what makes ff fun. Taking a risk and hoping it pans out.Funny thing is some of you want to insult people based on where they stand on an issue about ranking rb's but until any of you show me a link to your rankings that had C.Mart and Tiki in the top 5 last year then we all have no insight as to where to rank everyone. Its all just opinion and the insults should cease.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The only thing we know for sure about ranking the rb's this year and where lamont jordan fits in is that NOONE knows which rb's will do well and which ones will do horribly. Example: how many fbg's had tiki barber and curtis martin in the top 5 of their rankings going into last year??

Both of those guys were late 2nd early 3rd round picks in my semi-keeper/redraft league.

The one thing about Lamont that noone is talking about is his lack of competition at that position. Fargas can't stay healthy EVER. Crockett is no longer the goal line back now that Norv is there. What did he have 2 rushing td's last year??

You don't pay a back to a 27million dollar contract to have him riding pine.

So what makes fantasy success? Talent and OPPORTUNITY....we don't know a whole lot about his talent yet, but he has a huge opportunity here.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

S.Jackson--Faulk limits his opportunity some

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

M.Pittman--Gruden loves RBBC and Garner and Alstott is back. Not to mention they could be drafting a rb

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

D.Foster--too many rb's in that system for him to get enough opportunity to do well

C.Brown--Tennesee just lost plenty of playmakers on offense not to mention he is injury prone

A.Green--just lost 2 linemen and Favre may retire

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock

D.Staley--If Bettis is there you get nothing but yardage from Duce

With those questionmarks I could see taking Lamont in the 2nd round as rb2. He has the most opportunity, good enough talent around him...talent is still in question but that is what makes ff fun. Taking a risk and hoping it pans out.

Funny thing is some of you want to insult people based on where they stand on an issue about ranking rb's but until any of you show me a link to your rankings that had C.Mart and Tiki in the top 5 last year then we all have no insight as to where to rank everyone. Its all just opinion and the insults should cease.
:thumbup: thanks for the help! Some people will take Lamont in the second round while others will not. Those of us who feel he will go in the second round have are reasons while some of you guys don't. RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.

 
You can take Lamont in the 1st round. The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds. If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will.

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default? You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.
Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QBR.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crapC.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league. W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.
All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Friday_Frenzy"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.AlexanderHolmesTomlinsonEdgerrinJ. LewisDillonDeuce GreenF. TaylorBarberMartinDavisPortisRudiWestbrookMcGahee"Well Friday_FrenzyHis risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick. There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. . What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:1 S. Alexander, sea 2 T. Barber, nyg 3 L. Tomlinson, sd 4 C. Martin, nyj 5 E. James, ind 6 D. Davis, hou 7 C. Dillon, ne 8 R. Johnson, cin 9 W. McGahee, buf 10 P. Holmes, kc 11 B. Westbrook, phi 12 C. Portis, was 13 R. Droughns, den 14 A. Green, gb 15 W. Dunn, atlRoughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season. So,You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????

 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick.

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. .

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea

2 T. Barber, nyg

3 L. Tomlinson, sd

4 C. Martin, nyj

5 E. James, ind

6 D. Davis, hou

7 C. Dillon, ne

8 R. Johnson, cin

9 W. McGahee, buf

10 P. Holmes, kc

11 B. Westbrook, phi

12 C. Portis, was

13 R. Droughns, den

14 A. Green, gb

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
Would you draft Lamont Jordan ahead of Deuce this year? Howabout Fred Taylor? Julius Jones? Jamal Lewis? All those guys weren't in the top 15 last year. I am still waiting to see your rankings of how Lamont Jordan is a top 15 back.

Do you draft solely on where you think they will finish at the end of the season?

If you thought he was a top 15 back and no one else did, would you draft him really high? If the ADP of Jordan is in the 3rd or 4th round, why would you pick him so high when you can get him later on. You have to look at value based on the draft position, not solely on your own rankings. If my personal opinion is that Ronald Curry wil be the 15th ranked WR, is it smart for me to draft him as the 15th ranked WR in the draft? Not at all..same idea.

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????
If someone drafted Barber and Martin 2nd and 4th overall, yes I would laugh at them. I would laugh cause its a stupid pick. If you honestly had Barber as the 2nd overall back, that doesn't mean you draft him 2nd overall.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can take Lamont in the 1st round.

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds. If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will.

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.

 
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan
Drew Bledsoe was brutal last year.Were the Chiefs and Colts ranked DEAD last in rushing last year, both in attempts and yards?
 
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan
Drew Bledsoe was brutal last year.Were the Chiefs and Colts ranked DEAD last in rushing last year, both in attempts and yards?
Did the Colts/Chiefs have Wheatley/Zeroue at rb last year?? There is a reason the Raiders were last in attempts and rushing....its called not having a capable back to tote the rock....Now you have Moss/Porter/Curry keeping safeties honest so No defense will have more then 7 in the box at one time. I would bet anything the Raiders won't be dead last in rush attempts and yardage this year. You dont dish out 27 million not to use him.

 
You can take Lamont in the 1st round.

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds. If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will.

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.
So Cmart has a career year and you place higher value for a guy who hasn't proven anything for four years, and got a fat contract for proving nothing. No one is saying Cmart is going to repeat last year but he is annually drafted within rounds 2-4 every year. Same with Tiki Barber. Ridiculous to even consider Lamont Jordan to be ranked higher than these two.R. Johnson broke out from C. Dillon and puts up numbers worthy of a top 15 draft pick and all of a sudden Lamont Jordan is better than him because of someones hunch that he can carry the load. Johnson was in the same position last year as you are arguing about McGahee. Unproven qb thrown into the spotlight.

And how does it make Jordan more hungry now that he has a $14million in guaranteed money or whatever he got. Was he not hungry during his four years on the bench? If anything you should be worried about him not living up to expectations now that he doesn't have to prove that he can get a big contract.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan
Drew Bledsoe was brutal last year.Were the Chiefs and Colts ranked DEAD last in rushing last year, both in attempts and yards?
Did the Colts/Chiefs have Wheatley/Zeroue at rb last year?? There is a reason the Raiders were last in attempts and rushing....its called not having a capable back to tote the rock....Now you have Moss/Porter/Curry keeping safeties honest so No defense will have more then 7 in the box at one time. I would bet anything the Raiders won't be dead last in rush attempts and yardage this year. You dont dish out 27 million not to use him.
They were last in rushing cause of a combination of backs, O-LINE and getting killed. Two of those three things will not change to this year.

It may not be that they don't want to use him , it may be they won't get to use him if they can never stay in a game and have to abandon the run.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can take Lamont in the 1st round. 

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds.  If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will. 

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.
So Cmart has a career year and you place higher value for a guy who hasn't proven anything for four years, and got a fat contract for proving nothing. No one is saying Cmart is going to repeat last year but he is annually drafted within rounds 2-4 every year. Same with Tiki Barber. Ridiculous to even consider Lamont Jordan to be ranked higher than these two.R. Johnson broke out from C. Dillon and puts up numbers worthy of a top 15 draft pick and all of a sudden Lamont Jordan is better than him because of someones hunch that he can carry the load. Johnson was in the same position last year as you are arguing about McGahee. Unproven qb thrown into the spotlight.

And how does it make Jordan more hungry now that he has a $14million in guaranteed money or whatever he got. Was he not hungry during his four years on the bench? If anything you should be worried about him not living up to expectations now that he doesn't have to prove that he can get a big contract.
I never said I ranked Jordan higher then C.Mart....you yourself said CMart generally goes in rds 2-4 every year....I don't think its a stretch for L. Jordan to be in the same area come draft day.
 
You can take Lamont in the 1st round.

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds. If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will.

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.
So Cmart has a career year and you place higher value for a guy who hasn't proven anything for four years, and got a fat contract for proving nothing. No one is saying Cmart is going to repeat last year but he is annually drafted within rounds 2-4 every year. Same with Tiki Barber. Ridiculous to even consider Lamont Jordan to be ranked higher than these two.R. Johnson broke out from C. Dillon and puts up numbers worthy of a top 15 draft pick and all of a sudden Lamont Jordan is better than him because of someones hunch that he can carry the load. Johnson was in the same position last year as you are arguing about McGahee. Unproven qb thrown into the spotlight.

And how does it make Jordan more hungry now that he has a $14million in guaranteed money or whatever he got. Was he not hungry during his four years on the bench? If anything you should be worried about him not living up to expectations now that he doesn't have to prove that he can get a big contract.
I never said I ranked Jordan higher then C.Mart....you yourself said CMart generally goes in rds 2-4 every year....I don't think its a stretch for L. Jordan to be in the same area come draft day.
Can I see your current rankings of where you would place Jordan for next year? Thanks.People say they have him as a top 15 back, but I have yet to see what your rankings are and to see you have him ranked ahead of.

 
You can take Lamont in the 1st round.

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds. If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will.

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.
So Cmart has a career year and you place higher value for a guy who hasn't proven anything for four years, and got a fat contract for proving nothing. No one is saying Cmart is going to repeat last year but he is annually drafted within rounds 2-4 every year. Same with Tiki Barber. Ridiculous to even consider Lamont Jordan to be ranked higher than these two.R. Johnson broke out from C. Dillon and puts up numbers worthy of a top 15 draft pick and all of a sudden Lamont Jordan is better than him because of someones hunch that he can carry the load. Johnson was in the same position last year as you are arguing about McGahee. Unproven qb thrown into the spotlight.

And how does it make Jordan more hungry now that he has a $14million in guaranteed money or whatever he got. Was he not hungry during his four years on the bench? If anything you should be worried about him not living up to expectations now that he doesn't have to prove that he can get a big contract.
I never said I ranked Jordan higher then C.Mart....you yourself said CMart generally goes in rds 2-4 every year....I don't think its a stretch for L. Jordan to be in the same area come draft day.
Well, I'm not saying that Jordan couldn't be drafted in those rounds. Round 2 is a stretch. He's more of a late 3rd to 4th rounder, IMO. You were talking about Cmart's risk and I don't think that he has more risk than Jordan. My point about Martin going in those rounds was to point out that you don't normally discount a guy when he just had a great year. If he went in rounds 2 or 3 last year, you would bump him up this year or at least keep him around the same as last year. You wouldn't put him in the top 5, but you wouldn't drop him lower than last year. Where do you think Martin will be drafted? Most likely in the first 2 rounds.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan
Drew Bledsoe was brutal last year.Were the Chiefs and Colts ranked DEAD last in rushing last year, both in attempts and yards?
Did the Colts/Chiefs have Wheatley/Zeroue at rb last year?? There is a reason the Raiders were last in attempts and rushing....its called not having a capable back to tote the rock....Now you have Moss/Porter/Curry keeping safeties honest so No defense will have more then 7 in the box at one time. I would bet anything the Raiders won't be dead last in rush attempts and yardage this year. You dont dish out 27 million not to use him.
They were last in rushing cause of a combination of backs, O-LINE and getting killed. Two of those three things will not change to this year.

It may not be that they don't want to use him , it may be they won't get to use him if they can never stay in a game and have to abandon the run.
Combination of Backs: changedO-Line: I disagree with their O-Line was bad....the Raiders were the 6th best team in terms of sacks allowed...considering they passed 65% of the time last year...their o-line is rather good...

Getting Killed: I would venture to guess with the offensive weapons they aquired they won't be getting killed all the time...in fact they May actually have some leads for a change.

The Raiders were last in rushing last year:

1. Because their offense wasn't good enough to stay on the field...they lost the time of posession battle in 11 of 16 games last year.

2. Their defense was on the field 60%-70% of the entire game because their offense was inept. Doesn't exactly give many opportunities to run the ball.

so, IMO if the Raiders improve their offense enough(which I think they have) then that unit should be on the field more which will create more opportunity to run the ball.

Again, They will not be last in rushing yards and rushing attempts this year.

 
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan
Drew Bledsoe was brutal last year.Were the Chiefs and Colts ranked DEAD last in rushing last year, both in attempts and yards?
Did the Colts/Chiefs have Wheatley/Zeroue at rb last year?? There is a reason the Raiders were last in attempts and rushing....its called not having a capable back to tote the rock....Now you have Moss/Porter/Curry keeping safeties honest so No defense will have more then 7 in the box at one time. I would bet anything the Raiders won't be dead last in rush attempts and yardage this year. You dont dish out 27 million not to use him.
They were last in rushing cause of a combination of backs, O-LINE and getting killed. Two of those three things will not change to this year.

It may not be that they don't want to use him , it may be they won't get to use him if they can never stay in a game and have to abandon the run.
Combination of Backs: changedO-Line: I disagree with their O-Line was bad....the Raiders were the 6th best team in terms of sacks allowed...considering they passed 65% of the time last year...their o-line is rather good...

Getting Killed: I would venture to guess with the offensive weapons they aquired they won't be getting killed all the time...in fact they May actually have some leads for a change.

The Raiders were last in rushing last year:

1. Because their offense wasn't good enough to stay on the field...they lost the time of posession battle in 11 of 16 games last year.

2. Their defense was on the field 60%-70% of the entire game because their offense was inept. Doesn't exactly give many opportunities to run the ball.

so, IMO if the Raiders improve their offense enough(which I think they have) then that unit should be on the field more which will create more opportunity to run the ball.

Again, They will not be last in rushing yards and rushing attempts this year.
They may not be in last, but they won't be in the top 15. Its not like they are going to make a huge change to warrant Jordan to be a top 15 back next year.
 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick.

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. .

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea

2 T. Barber, nyg

3 L. Tomlinson, sd

4 C. Martin, nyj

5 E. James, ind

6 D. Davis, hou

7 C. Dillon, ne

8 R. Johnson, cin

9 W. McGahee, buf

10 P. Holmes, kc

11 B. Westbrook, phi

12 C. Portis, was

13 R. Droughns, den

14 A. Green, gb

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can take Lamont in the 1st round. 

The point is that his average draft position will not be in the top 2 rounds.  If you take him before the 2nd round, doesn't mean that everyone else will. 

RB's are had to judge as pointed out with Martin and Barber finishing top 5 last year while both of those backs probably would have been taken at the earliest in the late second round or early third.
I would have to say that RBs would be one of the easier positions to judge how will they finish compared to the other positions. Simply because you show two aberrations from last year does not mean that they are more difficult to judge than a QB, WR, K, TE, D. Lamont Jordan does have opportunityy, but since when does opportunity translate into a top 15 back by default?

You have to read into the situation more than just his opportunity. Opportunity doesn't directly trsnlate into production like you are suggesting.

Compared to other backs I would put him around or above this year:

W.McGahee--just lost 1 more piece of their OL and they are going with a rookie QB

R.Johnson--didn't exactly shine with the starting gig last year.

W.Dunn--As long as Duckett is there his opportunity is crap

C.Martin--1 year older...would be a gamble relying on him as my number 2 unless I handcuffed with blaylock
McGahee is the man in Buffalo's offense, unlike Jordan. Buffalo also has a pretty good defense to stay in the game and not have to jump into passing from behind.R. Johnson didn't exactly shine in the starting giglast year? Where were you? He was the 8th ranked RB in my league.

W. Dunn had Duckett there last year and was the 15th ranked RB.

The #1 rusher last year would be a gamble for you as your #2 RB. LOL. Wow.

All I am saying is he is just as high probablilty to produce as those other backs so it is by no means a stretch for him to go in the second round.
It may not be a stretch to see him go in the late 2nd round cause someone is taking a chance, but for the most part he will not go in the 2nd round or be ranked a top 15 back. I think you are mistaking what you would do and what will be the average consensus.
McGahee may be the man in Buffalo's offense, but J.P. Losman at QB won't prevent defenses from stacking the box. At least not until he proves himself as a capable QB. Also, you don't need to have a top notch defense to be a solid #2 rb. Hell the Colts and Chiefs are producing #1 rb's for ff squads and their defense is crap. Why?? Because their offense keeps them in games...Oakland's offense should keep them in games this year with the addition of Moss, Porter and Jordan.R.Johnson was 8th last year but if you look more in depth at his stats...he had 5 100 yd rushing games...11 games in which he didn't even average 4.0 yds/carry Not exactly the consistency you would look for in a rb

W.Dunn had 4 games last year without Duckett in which he scored 85 of his 243 total fantasy points in my league......which is roughly 35% of his total fantasy production. Obviously if Duckett wasn't in Atl rb situation then I would not put him in the same tier as Jordan

C.Mart was the #1 rusher last year but I seem to recall you calling it an abberation in the same post. Lets face it C. Mart should be on the downside of his career...whether that happens or not this year remains to be seen. But you can't say it isn't a risk. I personally think last year was the highest C.Mart will score for the rest of his career.
So Cmart has a career year and you place higher value for a guy who hasn't proven anything for four years, and got a fat contract for proving nothing. No one is saying Cmart is going to repeat last year but he is annually drafted within rounds 2-4 every year. Same with Tiki Barber. Ridiculous to even consider Lamont Jordan to be ranked higher than these two.R. Johnson broke out from C. Dillon and puts up numbers worthy of a top 15 draft pick and all of a sudden Lamont Jordan is better than him because of someones hunch that he can carry the load. Johnson was in the same position last year as you are arguing about McGahee. Unproven qb thrown into the spotlight.

And how does it make Jordan more hungry now that he has a $14million in guaranteed money or whatever he got. Was he not hungry during his four years on the bench? If anything you should be worried about him not living up to expectations now that he doesn't have to prove that he can get a big contract.
I never said I ranked Jordan higher then C.Mart....you yourself said CMart generally goes in rds 2-4 every year....I don't think its a stretch for L. Jordan to be in the same area come draft day.
Can I see your current rankings of where you would place Jordan for next year? Thanks.People say they have him as a top 15 back, but I have yet to see what your rankings are and to see you have him ranked ahead of.
I use the tier system when it comes to RB's so here are my tiers so far for this year...things could change based on free agency, trading and the draft...tier 1:

L.T.

Priest

S.Alex

D. McCallister

C.Portis

Tier 2:

C.Dillon

F.Taylor

Edge

J.Lewis

Tier 3:

T.Barber

D.Davis

A.Green--horrible offseason so far for the Pack

J.Jones

K.Jones

Tier 4:

W.McGahee

C.Martin

R.Johnson

S.Jackson

L.Jordan

B.Westbrook--Could end up lower if Phi gets another rb

C.Brown

T. Bell

Tier 5:

W.Dunn

M.Pittman

D.Foster

T.Jones

D.Staley

IMO anyone of the tier 4 rb's could be top 15. Usually for me Opportunity is a big factor in my tiering so the situations where there is questions on who is going to be the back I like to avoid. Also, the situations where backs get pulled at goal line etc.. which are my tier 5 guys.

None of my tiers are ranked...i just lump them together and decide from there ;)

 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc.  He IMO is worth a gamble pick. 

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. . 

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round.  Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan.  Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO.  So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea   

2 T. Barber, nyg   

3 L. Tomlinson, sd     

4 C. Martin, nyj   

5 E. James, ind   

6 D. Davis, hou   

7 C. Dillon, ne   

8 R. Johnson, cin   

9 W. McGahee, buf   

10 P. Holmes, kc 

11 B. Westbrook, phi   

12 C. Portis, was   

13 R. Droughns, den     

14 A. Green, gb     

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....

 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick.

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. .

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea

2 T. Barber, nyg

3 L. Tomlinson, sd

4 C. Martin, nyj

5 E. James, ind

6 D. Davis, hou

7 C. Dillon, ne

8 R. Johnson, cin

9 W. McGahee, buf

10 P. Holmes, kc

11 B. Westbrook, phi

12 C. Portis, was

13 R. Droughns, den

14 A. Green, gb

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?

 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc.  He IMO is worth a gamble pick. 

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. . 

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round.  Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan.  Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO.  So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea   

2 T. Barber, nyg   

3 L. Tomlinson, sd     

4 C. Martin, nyj   

5 E. James, ind   

6 D. Davis, hou   

7 C. Dillon, ne   

8 R. Johnson, cin   

9 W. McGahee, buf   

10 P. Holmes, kc 

11 B. Westbrook, phi   

12 C. Portis, was   

13 R. Droughns, den     

14 A. Green, gb     

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?
No neither of them were in my top 15....I would venture to guess that C.Mart and Tiki weren't in many top 15's either last year....That is the point...the top 15 can change from year to year rather easily.
 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick.

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. .

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea

2 T. Barber, nyg

3 L. Tomlinson, sd

4 C. Martin, nyj

5 E. James, ind

6 D. Davis, hou

7 C. Dillon, ne

8 R. Johnson, cin

9 W. McGahee, buf

10 P. Holmes, kc

11 B. Westbrook, phi

12 C. Portis, was

13 R. Droughns, den

14 A. Green, gb

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?
No neither of them were in my top 15....I would venture to guess that C.Mart and Tiki weren't in many top 15's either last year....That is the point...the top 15 can change from year to year rather easily.
It can change but you are automatically projecting Lamont in that category.
 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc.  He IMO is worth a gamble pick. 

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. . 

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round.  Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan.  Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO.  So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea   

2 T. Barber, nyg   

3 L. Tomlinson, sd     

4 C. Martin, nyj   

5 E. James, ind   

6 D. Davis, hou   

7 C. Dillon, ne   

8 R. Johnson, cin   

9 W. McGahee, buf   

10 P. Holmes, kc 

11 B. Westbrook, phi   

12 C. Portis, was   

13 R. Droughns, den     

14 A. Green, gb     

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?
No neither of them were in my top 15....I would venture to guess that C.Mart and Tiki weren't in many top 15's either last year....That is the point...the top 15 can change from year to year rather easily.
It can change but you are automatically projecting Lamont in that category.
Yes I am...but that is just my opinion based on his surroundings and the situation he is in.Just like I am sure had Lamont went to Seattle and Shaun Alexander had left via free agency you would have Jordan in your top 10 :P

 
Yes I am...but that is just my opinion based on his surroundings and the situation he is in.

Just like I am sure had Lamont went to Seattle and Shaun Alexander had left via free agency you would have Jordan in your top 10 :P

Oooo, Low blow. :thumbdown:

 
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc. He IMO is worth a gamble pick.

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. .

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round. Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan. Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO. So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea

2 T. Barber, nyg

3 L. Tomlinson, sd

4 C. Martin, nyj

5 E. James, ind

6 D. Davis, hou

7 C. Dillon, ne

8 R. Johnson, cin

9 W. McGahee, buf

10 P. Holmes, kc

11 B. Westbrook, phi

12 C. Portis, was

13 R. Droughns, den

14 A. Green, gb

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?
No neither of them were in my top 15....I would venture to guess that C.Mart and Tiki weren't in many top 15's either last year....That is the point...the top 15 can change from year to year rather easily.
It can change but you are automatically projecting Lamont in that category.
Yes I am...but that is just my opinion based on his surroundings and the situation he is in.Just like I am sure had Lamont went to Seattle and Shaun Alexander had left via free agency you would have Jordan in your top 10 :P
Quite a bit different. Seattle's RB was 2nd in the league last year in rushing and have an awesome O-line. If Lamont did in fact go to Seattle he would be higher than his situation is now thats for sure.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Friday_Frenzy

"You speak how Jordan is a Top 15 back or a even a second rounder for that matter.

RBS who are ranked ahead of Jordan.

Alexander

Holmes

Tomlinson

Edgerrin

J. Lewis

Dillon

Deuce

Green

F. Taylor

Barber

Martin

Davis

Portis

Rudi

Westbrook

McGahee"

Well Friday_Frenzy

His risk and reward is just as good as Rudi, Martin, Barber, Davis, Green etc.  He IMO is worth a gamble pick. 

There is no way that at the start of last season I would have had Duece Mcalister finishing as the 18th best rb behind guys like J.Bettis, R.Droughns etc. . 

What if someone gambled and drafted McGahee last year in the 3rd - 5th round.  Would you have laughed at them by the end of the year??? I know you would have been disagreeing with it as is the case with L.Jordan.  Would you have slated Rudi Johnson to be drafted as a top 10 RB last year? NO.  So what if someone picked him to finish as a top 10 back would you have laughed at them????

Here is the top 15 backs last season from a standard scoring system:

1 S. Alexander, sea   

2 T. Barber, nyg   

3 L. Tomlinson, sd     

4 C. Martin, nyj   

5 E. James, ind   

6 D. Davis, hou   

7 C. Dillon, ne   

8 R. Johnson, cin   

9 W. McGahee, buf   

10 P. Holmes, kc 

11 B. Westbrook, phi   

12 C. Portis, was   

13 R. Droughns, den     

14 A. Green, gb     

15 W. Dunn, atl

Roughly around 5-7 of these guys would not have been ranked in the top 15 RB's before the start of last season.

So,

You are trying to unjustify taking L.Jordan as a top 15 back when in actuality he has just as good as chance to finish there as those guys you are ranking ahead of him. In my eyes he is worth a gamble pick, how can you argue with that when you see this list??????
We understand that some guys will fall out of the top 15, but those are 15 guys who have shown they have what it takes to be there. Then you add guys like rookies and guys that did poorly last year but have just as much opportunity and talent to be in the top 15 and you can see that the math that does not include Jordan. And not many people will have Droughns or Dunn in their top 15, but the other guys in that list would be in a lot of top 15 rankings.
I disagree, every year backs jump into the top 15 that have never been there before...it is the nature of the NFL now adays with the salary cap etc...In my league last year 3 backs jumped into the top 15 that weren't there before:

Droughns, McGahee and Westbrook....what is common about those 3? They all got the opportunity to start.

I'm not saying that every back that gets the opportunity to start does well...but you have to like the situation that Jordan is in. The only hb left to compete with Jordan in Oakland is Fargas....I would be surprised if Zeroue is resigned and Wheatley was cut.....this all adds up to a very good chance Lamont could be one of the new backs to break into the top 15....
But that's the thing, I'm not saying the top 15 doesn't fluctuate every year. I know there will be some surpises. If I knew what the top 15 was next year, i wouldn't care where I drafted players. As long as I get my players I'm happy. But I don't know what will happen so I have to place a value on players that I want. So in my case I put less value on guys like Jordan. You and Vince Carter put more value on him. But it's the reasons that you put more value on him, that I disagree with. Did you have Droughns and McGahee ranked anywhere near the top 15 last year?
No neither of them were in my top 15....I would venture to guess that C.Mart and Tiki weren't in many top 15's either last year....That is the point...the top 15 can change from year to year rather easily.
It can change but you are automatically projecting Lamont in that category.
Yes I am...but that is just my opinion based on his surroundings and the situation he is in.Just like I am sure had Lamont went to Seattle and Shaun Alexander had left via free agency you would have Jordan in your top 10 :P
Quite a bit different. Seattle's RB was 2nd in the league last year in rushing and have an awesome O-line. If Lamont did in fact go to Seattle he would be higher than his situation is now thats for sure.
yes but If you were to swap rb's from Oakland to Seattle prior to last year(Shaun in Oakland, Wheatley/Zereoue/Fargas/scrub#4etc.) I doubt Seattle's rb would be 2nd in the league last year and the Raiders would not have been last in rushing attempts and yardage last year.Friday I think you are underestimating Oakland's O-Line...it is better then what you think.

 
"Would you draft Lamont Jordan ahead of Deuce this year? Howabout Fred Taylor? Julius Jones? Jamal Lewis? All those guys weren't in the top 15 last year.I am still waiting to see your rankings of how Lamont Jordan is a top 15 back.Do you draft solely on where you think they will finish at the end of the season?If you thought he was a top 15 back and no one else did, would you draft him really high? If the ADP of Jordan is in the 3rd or 4th round, why would you pick him so high when you can get him later on. You have to look at value based on the draft position, not solely on your own rankings. If my personal opinion is that Ronald Curry wil be the 15th ranked WR, is it smart for me to draft him as the 15th ranked WR in the draft? Not at all..same idea."Oh Friday Frenzy,I would not draft L. Jordan ahead of Duece this year or Jamal Lewis. I would draft him ahead of J.Jones and F.Taylor though. Here is who I have ranked ahead of him in the teir 1:AlexanderTomlinsonPriestPortisLewisJamesDillonGreenMcalisterDavisMaybe's are Martin, Barber, K.Jones, R.JohnsonThen there is a bunch of backs that I feel can be grouped together in the next teir where some will emerge into the top 15 and even top 10 by the end of the season. It is trying to find the right player thats the problem hence why fantasy drafts are so much fun.Teir 2 guys:S.JacksonJ.JonesF.TaylorL.JordanT. BellC. BrownMaybes W.Dunn, M.Pittman and probably a couple of others like O.Smith etc.....This grouping is where fantasy teams will make the playoffs or end up sol. . Some people last year may have drafted T.Henry early in the second round over a guy like Dillion who may have been late in the second round or early third and this cost many fantasy teams a chance at the playoffs. I think L.Jordan's circumstance to get into the top 15 is just as good and better then most of those in the second teir of backs. So do I snag him in the second round thinking this??? Yes. I don't sit on it hoping that he will still be there come the third round and then gets drafted and has an amazing season for someone else's fantasy team. And all you are left to say is I was just about to pick that guy.I am not stupid and if I knew I could get a guy like L.Jordan in the 5 th round I am not going to draft him in the second round. But I am predicting him to go anywhere in the 2nd round and no later then the end of the 3rd round. I will gamble with him and it may pay off. If it doesen't I am sure I can find guys off a lot of teams rosters and say why did you draft them so high in hindsight. Just was the case with you with Barlow. IF Barlow has a good season then you look smart for keeping him, however; if he turns out to be a bust then you don't look as smart. Well Jordan will be a gamble pick for many rosters this year and it will either be I told you so, or I should have went with another back.

 
I am not comparaing Alexander and Lamont, that is just ridiculous and completely pointless.I am talking about Lamont's vaue next year and debating those who think he is a 2nd round pick and top 15 back next year for sure. I am debating those that are predicting greatness for a backup RB who is coming into his first year ever to have a starting role for the worst rushing team in the lague last year. My personal opinion is that he falls in the 21-25 range for RBs this upcoming year. Yes he does have the starting job, but he still plays for the Raiders one of the worst teams in football at this point in time. The addition of Moss and Jordan will not make a huge impact on this cause they needed to improve on defense to make headway, not offense.Explanation on Lamont Jordan's projection.1. Addition of Moss. Good and bad. It will allow the Raiders to stay on the field longer but it means Lamont will never be the focal point of their offense. Moss and Porter will get their touches. Everyone says that they will do wonders for a run game and keep the defense real, but Moss and Porter didn't sign major deals just to be decoys either, they will get alot of touches.2. O-line. This O-line was a largely responsible for being the worst ranked rushing offesne in the league last year. RBs or not, if a team has a medicore O-line, they will run the ball and many RBs can do well enough to be productive for the team. I understand that the lack of RB may have hurt them them last year as well, but the O-line was a major contributor. If you look at rushing stats, a common line in the rankings is the strength of the O-line. The Raiders were dead last and that says something about their O-line.3. Team as a Whole. The Raiders had a terrible defense last year and it has only gotten worse thus far with the offseason. Losing their starting LB and most likely Woodson. The Raiders have 9 wins in their last two seasons after going to the Superbowl and bad teams generally do not have good fantasy RBs. RBs ranked in the Top 15 from teams who do not win 6 games all season. The Raiders have not won 6 games in their past two seasons.2004- NONE2003- Tomlinson, Taylor2002- NONE2001 - Tomlinson2000 - NONE3 RBs have done it in the last 5 years, that isn't very good news for Lamont.4. Competition. This year there will be alot of good backs to choose from. It seems that there is a decrease in RBBC compared to a few years ago which means there is that many more RBs who will do well and more competition for Lamont to finish in the top 15. I am not a Lamont Jordan hater, but I look at the full scenario before shouting "Lamont will be top 15 back" when he is acquired by the Raiders. I agree that he will have opportunity, but opportunity simply does not mean a RB will be productive.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am not comparaing Alexander and Lamont, that is just ridiculous and completely pointless.

I am talking about Lamont's vaue next year and debating those who think he is a 2nd round pick and top 15 back next year for sure. I am debating those that are predicting greatness for a backup RB who is coming into his first year ever to have a starting role for the worst rushing team in the lague last year.

My personal opinion is that he falls in the 21-25 range for RBs this upcoming year. Yes he does have the starting job, but he still plays for the Raiders one of the worst teams in football at this point in time. The addition of Moss and Jordan will not make a huge impact on this cause they needed to improve on defense to make headway, not offense.

Explanation on Lamont Jordan's projection.

1. Addition of Moss. Good and bad. It will allow the Raiders to stay on the field longer but it means Lamont will never be the focal point of their offense. Moss and Porter will get their touches. Everyone says that they will do wonders for a run game and keep the defense real, but Moss and Porter didn't sign major deals just to be decoys either, they will get alot of touches.

2. O-line. This O-line was a largely responsible for being the worst ranked rushing offesne in the league last year. RBs or not, if a team has a medicore O-line, they will run the ball and many RBs can do well enough to be productive for the team. I understand that the lack of RB may have hurt them them last year as well, but the O-line was a major contributor. If you look at rushing stats, a common line in the rankings is the strength of the O-line. The Raiders were dead last and that says something about their O-line.

3. Team as a Whole. The Raiders had a terrible defense last year and it has only gotten worse thus far with the offseason. Losing their starting LB and most likely Woodson. The Raiders have 9 wins in their last two seasons after going to the Superbowl and bad teams generally do not have good fantasy RBs.

RBs ranked in the Top 15 from teams who do not win 6 games all season. The Raiders have not won 6 games in their past two seasons.

2004- NONE

2003- Tomlinson, Taylor

2002- NONE

2001 - Tomlinson

2000 - NONE

3 RBs have done it in the last 5 years, that isn't very good news for Lamont.

4. Competition. This year there will be alot of good backs to choose from. It seems that there is a decrease in RBBC compared to a few years ago which means there is that many more RBs who will do well and more competition for Lamont to finish in the top 15.

I am not a Lamont Jordan hater, but I look at the full scenario before shouting "Lamont will be top 15 back" when he is acquired by the Raiders. I agree that he will have opportunity, but opportunity simply does not mean a RB will be productive.
I really don't think most of the arguments you have made here are logical. 1. Anyone who thinks that the addition of the most talented WR in the league will not help a RB, does not know football. When you get an impact player on offense, it doesn't mean that they will get a larger piece of the pie than others. The pie gets larger, which means more opportunity for all players. Norv will send Moss and Porter down the field, and the defense will be forced to use both safeties in coverage. Besides, LaMont WILL be the first option, not Moss. Norv has always been a run first coach when his personnel allows it.

2. Oakland's line is not nearly as bad as you think. Their draft picks played solid football last year, and will only improve. Oakland's O-line is clearly a run blocking line, and they did not get to do much of that last year. The running game was not ineffective due to the line itself, it was because Oakland was always behind, and had nothing more than a committee of mediocre RBs. If you were their head coach, and had their backfield from last year, wouldn't you throw every down too?

3. I actually think the fact that they have a poor defense may even help Lamont. Due to their explosive offense, they will never be far behind, despite letting the other team score a lot of points. Lamont will be carrying the ball with frequency, as long as Oakland still has a chance in the game. Another factor you don't seem to grasp is that Jordan is also an excellent receiver. Even if they are behind, he will be on the field for their 2 minute drill. Lastly, the poorer a team's defense, the more they want to keep their offense on the field. This translates to more time of possession, and more carries for Lamont.

4. I also disagree with this. I don't see any significant increase in RBs that are not sharing the load. Please show me some info that backs up this point.

All in all, if these are your main arguments, they hold no weight in my opinion.

The bottom line is that even if I thought Lamont was not a talented back, his situation alone warrants top 15 consideration. I think he is a very solid pick in the second round of a redraft league. When I look at RB, I think that a RB's floor (statistically speaking) is just as important as his ceiling. This is why I love Jordan. Norv loves to run the ball when he has a horse, and I think Jordan is a lock for 400 touches. With that many touches, I think a Jordan is a very safe bet to be in the top 15, with the potential for much higher.

By the way, you are DEFINITELY a LaMont hater...

 
Yudkin - while you posted the MIN RB's total fantasy points, you didn't take into account that MIN often used RBBC, with players like L. Hoard and M. Williams getting the goalline carries, while R. Smith and Bennett got the yards. My main point is that the RBs often posted very good YPC numbers. Jordan has posted a solid career YPC, and may get both the yards and TDs in OAK. I get the feeling that enough people like Jordan that he won't be a great value pick, unless he turns out to be a top 10 RB.

 
Raiders opponents next year:Home-Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, Buffalo, Miami, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, ClevelandAway-Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, New England, N.Y. Jets, Philadelphia, Washington, TennesseeDoes this lower any expectations next year or just reaffirm what you were already thinking? The Jets game will be interesting.

 
Raiders opponents next year:

Home-Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, Buffalo, Miami, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, Cleveland

Away-Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, New England, N.Y. Jets, Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee

Does this lower any expectations next year or just reaffirm what you were already thinking? The Jets game will be interesting.
Like anything else, it's extremely tough to make a conclusion on team scheduling, as their are too many variables at play.Agreed though, the Jets game will be interesting, and I will be there :thumbup:

 
I picked up LaMont Jordon at the end of last season from the waiver wire in my keeper league. So i guess hes worth a last round draft pick?

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top