I'd Rather Let My Son Die... (1 Viewer)

[Soulfly3]

Here is the situation.

One of my best buds is in the hospital, and he's not doing to well. I've made a few treks out there and shot the breeze with him, making sure he doesn't need anything, etc.

So last night I'm there, and the people in the room (which includes some family and friends) are discussing getting their blood tested because my friend has a rare blood type and in case of an emergency or complications during surgery they want to be sure they have enough blood to cover the risks. Fair enough, I have NO idea what blood type I am so I say Im in... who wouldnt potentially want to save their best friend's life if they can?

I ask his mother jokingly if she'll hold my hand if they have to draw blood. She looks at me in semi disgust and says "are you kidding me?" I thought maybe I had crossed the line and she wasnt in a joking mood, so I apologized.

Another family member comes over to me and apologizes on the mother's behalf and tell me she is a Jehova's Witness and they are adamantly AGAINST blood transfusions. Not only this... but she is the ONLY match in the family for his blood type and she has refused to have any drawn to potentially save her sons life.

I'm all for folks believing what they want to believe, but there are limits of stupidity. A mother refusing to help save her sons life is one of them. She apparently told the room there is no way even if he was on his last breath that she was give some of her life oil up.

I know religious debate is frowned upon... But this woman has ALWAYS been a good mother. always been there, giving what she needed and thensome. But her conviction is so strong she wouldnt save her own son's life.

FBG lawyers - Is there a way we can legally tie her down to draw blood if need be? The defense being it was necessary to save a life?

 

[Super King]

Wow.... what a crazy ####

 

[beavers]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

 

[Soulfly3]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

This is what I dont understand.

If your God is supposed to be all loving and giving - and expects the same from hsi creations... would he not want you giving the ultimate gift (of life) to your child, if they were in need?

 

[Gawain]

There's a big difference legally/ethically/philosophically between determining what's best for a minor child and forcing an adult to submit to a medical procedure.

That being said, best wishes for you and your friend. Sounds like a terrible situation.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Does your friend share her belief? Does anyone know his thoughts, or is he able to communicate?

 

[Godsbrother]

If she believes that giving blood will condemn either her son or herself to hell then I can understand why she wouldn't.

That said it seems like a goofy thing to believe to me. A lot of religions seem to think God is a real jerk.

 

[Henry Ford]

What's his blood type?

 

[McGarnicle]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

 

[beavers]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

This is what I dont understand.

If your God is supposed to be all loving and giving - and expects the same from hsi creations... would he not want you giving the ultimate gift (of life) to your child, if they were in need?

Right. And wouldn't God be the one who created doctors, scientists, and advanced medicine? I don't get it either ...

 

[joffer]

FBG lawyers - Is there a way we can legally tie her down to draw blood if need be? The defense being it was necessary to save a life?

I sure hope not

 

[Soulfly3]

Does your friend share her belief? Does anyone know his thoughts, or is he able to communicate?

No, he does not share her belief

She "transferred" over to JH about 10-15yrs ago.

To whoever asked, he is B-

 

[beavers]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

 

[beavers]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

Amish family flees America to avoid court ordered chemo ...

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/03/19/family-flees-america-to-escape-forced-chemo-on-daughter/

 

[Scoresman]

If religious beliefs come between a mother and her son in a life threatening situation, then those religious beliefs are a bunch of bull####. This kind of thing legitimately infuriates me.

 

[McGarnicle]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

Amish family flees America to avoid court ordered chemo ...

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/03/19/family-flees-america-to-escape-forced-chemo-on-daughter/

Very creepy police-state vibe to this story. Think of the mechanics of this...nurses strapping the girl down to administer treatment, the family screaming the whole time.

U! S! A!

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Does your friend share her belief? Does anyone know his thoughts, or is he able to communicate?

No, he does not share her belief

She "transferred" over to JH about 10-15yrs ago.

To whoever asked, he is B-

How would she feel if someone were to provide him with the blood?

Honestly, I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just asking questions out of curiosity. I wish everyone the best.

 

[timschochet]

If she believes that giving blood will condemn either her son or herself to hell then I can understand why she wouldn't.

That said it seems like a goofy thing to believe to me. A lot of religions seem to think God is a real jerk.

FWIW, I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Hell.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Religion

 

[Soulfly3]

How would she feel if someone were to provide him with the blood?

Honestly, I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just asking questions out of curiosity. I wish everyone the best.

She doesnt agree with it, but wtf can she do to stop it? nothing. id rub it in her face

If she believes that giving blood will condemn either her son or herself to hell then I can understand why she wouldn't.

That said it seems like a goofy thing to believe to me. A lot of religions seem to think God is a real jerk.

FWIW, I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Hell.

Nope.. just armageddon that "cleanses the earth"

 

[Buckfast 1]

####### morons.

 

[beavers]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

Amish family flees America to avoid court ordered chemo ...

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/03/19/family-flees-america-to-escape-forced-chemo-on-daughter/

Very creepy police-state vibe to this story. Think of the mechanics of this...nurses strapping the girl down to administer treatment, the family screaming the whole time.

U! S! A!

I get it. But how is this any different than removing a child from the care of a parent who does not provide a safe, non-abusive environment?

 

[comfortably numb]

####### morons.

Jehovah Witness he said, not Mormons.

 

[Cjw_55106]

If she believes that giving blood will condemn either her son or herself to hell then I can understand why she wouldn't.

That said it seems like a goofy thing to believe to me. A lot of religions seem to think God is a real jerk.

FWIW, I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Hell.

while that's true, it's splitting hairs. They believe in heaven as well as heaven on earth. If you don't make it to either of those, you are simply dead and buried. So while not quite as harsh as hell, you wouldn't make it to heaven.

 

[chet]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

How would she feel if someone were to provide him with the blood?

Honestly, I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just asking questions out of curiosity. I wish everyone the best.

She doesnt agree with it, but wtf can she do to stop it? nothing. id rub it in her face

I'm with you. Like I said, good luck to all involved.

 

[Soulfly3]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

I dont know how many folks donate blood... and the ones that do are more than likely not B-

they do have the blood available, but there is a shortage, and they just wanted "cover"

odds are he wont need it at all... But the point of the story was above and beyond that - and how a believe in something is so strong that she would stick to that conviction over her sons life.

 

[Black Box]

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where blood is not forcibly drawn from a person, no matter the justification for it.

But that's just me.

P.S. The mother is being selfish, obviously.

 

[Soulfly3]

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where blood is not forcibly drawn from a person, no matter the justification for it.

But that's just me.

P.S. The mother is being selfish, obviously.

I agree with that sentiment.

But say someone was to hold her down... forcibly... draw the blood and use it to save someone's life.

Honestly, wtf are the courts gonna charge you with? Especially in Canada... you egt slaps on the wrist for everything here... I cant see anything more than community service.. maybe

 

[chet]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

I dont know how many folks donate blood... and the ones that do are more than likely not B-

they do have the blood available, but there is a shortage, and they just wanted "cover"

odds are he wont need it at all... But the point of the story was above and beyond that - and how a believe in something is so strong that she would stick to that conviction over her sons life.

I agree that she's a selfish #### but this is nowhere a 1/1,000,000 bone marrow match.

 

[Soulfly3]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

I dont know how many folks donate blood... and the ones that do are more than likely not B-

they do have the blood available, but there is a shortage, and they just wanted "cover"

odds are he wont need it at all... But the point of the story was above and beyond that - and how a believe in something is so strong that she would stick to that conviction over her sons life.

I agree that she's a selfish #### but this is nowhere a 1/1,000,000 bone marrow match.

definitely not.

but the match was sitting right in the room. his damn MOTHER. and she says no. further more says not even if his life hung in her hands.

it's more the situation than the "desperate need" to find the blood. Im sure it wouldnt be too difficult.

 

[joffer]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

I dont know how many folks donate blood... and the ones that do are more than likely not B-

they do have the blood available, but there is a shortage, and they just wanted "cover"

odds are he wont need it at all... But the point of the story was above and beyond that - and how a believe in something is so strong that she would stick to that conviction over her sons life.

I agree that she's a selfish #### but this is nowhere a 1/1,000,000 bone marrow match.

sounds like it wouldn't matter

She apparently told the room there is no way even if he was on his last breath that she was give some of her life oil up.

 

[McGarnicle]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

Amish family flees America to avoid court ordered chemo ...

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/03/19/family-flees-america-to-escape-forced-chemo-on-daughter/

Very creepy police-state vibe to this story. Think of the mechanics of this...nurses strapping the girl down to administer treatment, the family screaming the whole time.

U! S! A!

I get it. But how is this any different than removing a child from the care of a parent who does not provide a safe, non-abusive environment?

It's an interesting question. Refusing a blood transfusion that could save a life seems pretty awful, since it's a pretty simple, low-risk and routine procedure. Chemo is anything but. Where should we draw the line? I'm probably in the minority but I believe the right to self-determination is the most basic right we have as humans. These religious beliefs seem insane to us, but we have freedom of religion in this country. It's these types of cases that certainly test those boundaries though.

 

[Koya]

My wife was raised in a household run by her grandmother who is a Jehovah's. This issue runs deep. Something about a firm believe that blood transfusion would taint their chance for an afterlife. To me its hogwash and irresponsible in some cases, but if I REALLY believed that I was to live in heaven and your asking me to shortsightedly get a few more years as a mortal in exchange for losing out on immortality, that puts things in a different light. That said, you'd hope a parent would be willing to risk their immortality for the betterment of their child, though wouldn't you prefer your child had a chance for heaven too?

For my wife, she never bought into the religion, but it took me a year to convince her to not have an automatic DNR or allow a blood transfusion. Drove me crazy and honestly scared me to think of losing her for no good reason. Thank god she's evolved that position.

One last point - I know that Jehovah's are not allowed to GET a transfusion ( ruins the blood or something to that effect) but didn't know they couldn't even GIVE blood

 

[simey]

What am I missing?

B, Rh Negative, 1 person in 67, 1.5%

Test another 67 people to find a match. Or is it more complicated than that?

I dont know how many folks donate blood... and the ones that do are more than likely not B-

they do have the blood available, but there is a shortage, and they just wanted "cover"

odds are he wont need it at all... But the point of the story was above and beyond that - and how a believe in something is so strong that she would stick to that conviction over her sons life.

Type O- can donate to B-. My best friend is O-, and she donates blood all the time since she is a universal donor. She can only receive blood from an O- person.

 

[Soulfly3]

Type O- can donate to B-. My best friend is O-, and she donates blood all the time since she is a universal donor. She can only receive blood from an O- person.

Good to know.

 

[NCCommish]

I guess this is no different than a case here in Ohio, where an Amish family refused chemo for their daughter. With chemo, she has a 90%+ survival rate. Without, it's significantly less. The hospital tried to fight the refusal, was granted temporary guardianship then the Amish family fled. The hospital ultimately ended up giving up the fight. As a mother, I would do anything and everything to save my child. But then again, I don't have strong religious beliefs that would be a potential barrier.

That is pretty scary that the hospital won temporary guardianship. I take it the daughter is a minor? I've often thought that I wouldn't want chemotherapy. Just load me up on opiates and put on a Breaking Bad marathon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-hospital-force-chemo-amish-girl-court/story?id=20513841

Amish family flees America to avoid court ordered chemo ...

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/03/19/family-flees-america-to-escape-forced-chemo-on-daughter/

Very creepy police-state vibe to this story. Think of the mechanics of this...nurses strapping the girl down to administer treatment, the family screaming the whole time.

U! S! A!

I get it. But how is this any different than removing a child from the care of a parent who does not provide a safe, non-abusive environment?

It's an interesting question. Refusing a blood transfusion that could save a life seems pretty awful, since it's a pretty simple, low-risk and routine procedure. Chemo is anything but. Where should we draw the line? I'm probably in the minority but I believe the right to self-determination is the most basic right we have as humans. These religious beliefs seem insane to us, but we have freedom of religion in this country. It's these types of cases that certainly test those boundaries though.

You don't have the right to kill a minor child because you don't believe in medicine.

 

[RUSF18]

You hear stories like this and remember why it makes sense for some people to strap a bomb to their chest and walk into a school before detonating themselves, all in the name of religion.

 

[Henry Ford]

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where blood is not forcibly drawn from a person, no matter the justification for it.

But that's just me.

P.S. The mother is being selfish, obviously.

I agree with that sentiment.

But say someone was to hold her down... forcibly... draw the blood and use it to save someone's life.

Honestly, wtf are the courts gonna charge you with? Especially in Canada... you egt slaps on the wrist for everything here... I cant see anything more than community service.. maybe

Assault. Battery. Unlawful detention. Kidnapping. Conspiracy.

 

[Soulfly3]

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where blood is not forcibly drawn from a person, no matter the justification for it.

But that's just me.

P.S. The mother is being selfish, obviously.

I agree with that sentiment.

But say someone was to hold her down... forcibly... draw the blood and use it to save someone's life.

Honestly, wtf are the courts gonna charge you with? Especially in Canada... you egt slaps on the wrist for everything here... I cant see anything more than community service.. maybe

Assault. Battery. Unlawful detention. Kidnapping. Conspiracy.

all wrist slaps here.

Thanks

 

[Black Box]

It's an interesting question. Refusing a blood transfusion that could save a life seems pretty awful, since it's a pretty simple, low-risk and routine procedure. Chemo is anything but. Where should we draw the line? I'm probably in the minority but I believe the right to self-determination is the most basic right we have as humans. These religious beliefs seem insane to us, but we have freedom of religion in this country. It's these types of cases that certainly test those boundaries though.

You don't have the right to kill a minor child because you don't believe in medicine.

They seemed to believe in the medicine when they started treatment. They wanted to stop because of the side effects. At least that is how the articles describe it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'm sure someone has mentioned, but anyone with O Positive can also contribute.

GL.

 

[rick6668]

Crazy.

What this also shows is how important it is to give blood, just not when someone we know is in the hospital.

I give every 56 days (the limit) for whole blood. I'm O negative and CMV negative (pretty rare, I've seen as low as 1.4% of the population), so my blood is used primarily for premature babies.

Kinda hard not to donate once you know you're saving multiple lives.

 

[Tom Servo]

Some information on JWs and blood transfusions.

Just as the Watchtower revoked its ruling that organ transplants are wrong in the 1980's, over the last few years it has made significant changes to the acceptable use of blood. Every Jehovah's Witness should seriously consider the implications of the Watchtower making such life and death doctrinal changes before deciding to refuse blood, when lives are at stake.

 

[Soulfly3]

Some information on JWs and blood transfusions.

Just as the Watchtower revoked its ruling that organ transplants are wrong in the 1980's, over the last few years it has made significant changes to the acceptable use of blood. Every Jehovah's Witness should seriously consider the implications of the Watchtower making such life and death doctrinal changes before deciding to refuse blood, when lives are at stake.

"But suppose one's wife or child were near death. Giving blood, no matter who the loved one might be, would still constitute a violation of God's law. Just because one is near death, this does not give one liberty to break God's commands. When one is near death is no time to tamper with or violate the law of God, but a time to draw as near as possible to God by remaining faithful. Everlasting life is the reward for faithfulness. How foolish it would be to gamble away the prospect of life eternal for the very uncertain promise of a cure by blood transfusion!" Watchtower 1970 Apr 15 p.249

Why I hate organized religion, 101.

 

[Guest]

Roofie

Draw Blood

???

Profit!

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I refuse to give my kids antibiotics or insulin because magical forest elf told me not to.

 

[Tom Servo]

Some information on JWs and blood transfusions.

Just as the Watchtower revoked its ruling that organ transplants are wrong in the 1980's, over the last few years it has made significant changes to the acceptable use of blood. Every Jehovah's Witness should seriously consider the implications of the Watchtower making such life and death doctrinal changes before deciding to refuse blood, when lives are at stake.

"But suppose one's wife or child were near death. Giving blood, no matter who the loved one might be, would still constitute a violation of God's law. Just because one is near death, this does not give one liberty to break God's commands. When one is near death is no time to tamper with or violate the law of God, but a time to draw as near as possible to God by remaining faithful. Everlasting life is the reward for faithfulness. How foolish it would be to gamble away the prospect of life eternal for the very uncertain promise of a cure by blood transfusion!" Watchtower 1970 Apr 15 p.249

Why I hate CULTS organized religion, 101.

Fixed

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Some information on JWs and blood transfusions.

Just as the Watchtower revoked its ruling that organ transplants are wrong in the 1980's, over the last few years it has made significant changes to the acceptable use of blood. Every Jehovah's Witness should seriously consider the implications of the Watchtower making such life and death doctrinal changes before deciding to refuse blood, when lives are at stake.

"But suppose one's wife or child were near death. Giving blood, no matter who the loved one might be, would still constitute a violation of God's law. Just because one is near death, this does not give one liberty to break God's commands. When one is near death is no time to tamper with or violate the law of God, but a time to draw as near as possible to God by remaining faithful. Everlasting life is the reward for faithfulness. How foolish it would be to gamble away the prospect of life eternal for the very uncertain promise of a cure by blood transfusion!" Watchtower 1970 Apr 15 p.249

Why I hate CULTS organized religion, 101.

Fixed

Any religion = Cult. HTH.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Some information on JWs and blood transfusions.

Just as the Watchtower revoked its ruling that organ transplants are wrong in the 1980's, over the last few years it has made significant changes to the acceptable use of blood. Every Jehovah's Witness should seriously consider the implications of the Watchtower making such life and death doctrinal changes before deciding to refuse blood, when lives are at stake.

"But suppose one's wife or child were near death. Giving blood, no matter who the loved one might be, would still constitute a violation of God's law. Just because one is near death, this does not give one liberty to break God's commands. When one is near death is no time to tamper with or violate the law of God, but a time to draw as near as possible to God by remaining faithful. Everlasting life is the reward for faithfulness. How foolish it would be to gamble away the prospect of life eternal for the very uncertain promise of a cure by blood transfusion!" Watchtower 1970 Apr 15 p.249

Why I hate CULTS organized religion, archaic, superstitions that should have died out 1000 years ago 101.

Fixed

Fixed