IDP dynasty polls (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

I want to appologise for not continuing the IDP dynasty polls over the past week or so here. There is a reason why.

I was noticing that in the polls we were not getting a lot of votes even though the polls have not gotten to the point where they are past the top 10 yet.

It may be that there are only a handfull of us who participate in the IDP forum on a weekly basis as the reason why.

Please let me know if you think it would be better to run these polls in the Shark Pool where more people participate on a daily basis or if you think it's better to keep the polls in the IDP forum where we may not get as many votes to reach as definitive conclushion as we would with more voting but we would be assured of more informed opinions from those who are voting.

Thanks for the feedback on this I will take all comments on the situation into consideration and then once peoples ideas on this are known I will reopen the polling based on what people think is best here.

 

[stevegamer]

I've been active here, but have been out of touch on-line most of the last week to 10 days. I have voted on what I saw wasn't closed out in the Shark Pool.

I think you'll get 2 different answers, depending on where they are.

If you post them only here, you'll get a smaller sample, but it will be more experienced. Possibly more accurate assessment of where players should be, but less accurate assessment of where they are generally valued.

If you post it in the SP, more answers, but less experience, so things may be less accurate with what they will do, but better on what a consensus is.

A good idea might be to post the poll in the SP & a link to it here.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think you'll get 2 different answers, depending on where they are.If you post them only here, you'll get a smaller sample, but it will be more experienced. Possibly more accurate assessment of where players should be, but less accurate assessment of where they are generally valued.If you post it in the SP, more answers, but less experience, so things may be less accurate with what they will do, but better on what a consensus is.

This is kind of what I was thinking. That it is better to have a more informed opinion/vote that would be generated here. The drawback is for a poll only having say 25 votes divided amoungst many players a clear winner is harder to determine with the leader of the poll only having 6 or 8 votes for them.

A good idea might be to post the poll in the SP & a link to it here.

I assume that everyone who participates in the IDP forum uses the Shark Pool also? So I am guessing that people who would vote in them here would vote in them there as well. But thier informed votes would not carry as much weight. And that to me would be a downside. But we would have a larger sample size of votes to draw on. I am still undecided if the larger sample size is worth dilluting the accuracy of those voting or not yet.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I know you're already some number of players into this but I think a possible solution would be to ask for folks to rank their top 25 (or some other arbitrary number but the smaller the better) players at each position and come up with a metric to weight the votes to generate a consensus list.

With 20-40 active IDPers/trusted votes and so many close decisions, you're rarely going to get a clear consensus between slots. The poll process could be left up over a couple week period and if it only gets 10-15 "votes" will still form a pretty solid consensus.

 

[pacman_fl]

I know you're already some number of players into this but I think a possible solution would be to ask for folks to rank their top 25 (or some other arbitrary number but the smaller the better) players at each position and come up with a metric to weight the votes to generate a consensus list.With 20-40 active IDPers/trusted votes and so many close decisions, you're rarely going to get a clear consensus between slots. The poll process could be left up over a couple week period and if it only gets 10-15 "votes" will still form a pretty solid consensus.

I agree with Jene here. Individual rankings will create a more "fluid system" as you will get a consistent number of votes with a knowledgable group. As a side note - even though it would be a PITA, if you combined rankings from this forum along with polls in the Shark Pool, I believe we would derive a dual benefit. The Shark Pool, I feel, will yield a closer resemblance to ADP rather than actual value/ranking. This forum would probably create a more accuate value. This would help those of us that use both forums by giving us an idea of where we can "sell high" or draft talent below the normal ADP. Last note - Biabreakable, you have a terrific thread in the Shark Pool about building a dynasty team but the responses appear geared toward the offensive side. I would be interested to see something similar in this forum as well.

 

[lord_helmet]

I think the polls on the offensive players in the SP has been surprising to put it politely, defensive players results with this in mind would be pretty much worthless I imagine

 

[stevegamer]

Even surprising data has value. Different people think differently, and sometimes it good to what others think - because you can use it to your advantage.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think the polls on the offensive players in the SP has been surprising to put it politely, defensive players results with this in mind would be pretty much worthless I imagine

 

[Biabreakable]

With 20-40 active IDPers/trusted votes and so many close decisions, you're rarely going to get a clear consensus between slots. The poll process could be left up over a couple week period and if it only gets 10-15 "votes" will still form a pretty solid consensus.

This is the issue I was struggling with. 6 votes for one player and 7 votes for another doesen't give me a very clear picture of a winner. But I guess I can learn to work with it. Leaving the polls open for a longer period of time like a week may allow for more votes from people who don't come here on a daily basis.

 

[Jene Bramel]

With 20-40 active IDPers/trusted votes and so many close decisions, you're rarely going to get a clear consensus between slots. The poll process could be left up over a couple week period and if it only gets 10-15 "votes" will still form a pretty solid consensus.

This is the issue I was struggling with. 6 votes for one player and 7 votes for another doesen't give me a very clear picture of a winner. But I guess I can learn to work with it. Leaving the polls open for a longer period of time like a week may allow for more votes from people who don't come here on a daily basis.

Actually, that paragraph was referring to the first in my post. I think you may need to leave up and bump a "Rank your top XX DL" thread for a week or two to get the numbers you want. Leaving up a "Who's the #5 DL?" thread for an extra few days isn't likely to get the separation you want and will probably lengthen the process too much too.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Shark Pool, I feel, will yield a closer resemblance to ADP rather than actual value/ranking. This forum would probably create a more accuate value. This would help those of us that use both forums by giving us an idea of where we can "sell high" or draft talent below the normal ADP. Last note - Biabreakable, you have a terrific thread in the Shark Pool about building a dynasty team but the responses appear geared toward the offensive side. I would be interested to see something similar in this forum as well.

My initial thought when starting the polls was that they belong here and would be better having informed voters who at least play in IDP leagues. Many of the people in the Shark Poll do not, they still play team defense.The low number of votes is then what concerned me because I wasn't sure if I was getting a large enough sample for a good ranking or not. I have a limited knowledge and experience with control groups and sampling from some canvasing and lobying I did a pretty long time ago.But what I am hearing here is that most probobly agree with my initial choice of this being the best place to get accurate results even if the sample size is small.So what I am leaning towards is just starting them back up here then with the understanding that there may not be a large sample size to draw from.I think I would like to let these polls run thier course here 1st and then could do another set of polls in the SP after they have concluded and compare the 2. That might be entertaining. As far as your other suggestion about dynasty strategy in IDP leagues and how to determine player values comparativly between positions. This could include offense and defense as well.. I do have some ideas about that and some general observations that may be true or untrue that would be interesting and usefull to find out if people agree or disagree. And what strats they might have. I will think about this a bit but I agree it could be a very usefull thread. Perhaps this weekend I can get my halves together and hammer somthing out.

 

[jgb95]

I'd rather leave the polls up longer as well.

I've been involved in every poll and I've enjoyed the process!

 

[stevegamer]

You could ask people for their top 5 players in no order. Then your order the top 5 guys getting most mentions.

You then ask for 6-10, given the top 5. It would allow people to think in smaller chunks than a long list, while not taking forever like each rank spot being a week.

 

[Biabreakable]

The suggestions about having people list thier rankings is well taken. I am considering ways to do this. If someone else wants to kick that off feel free to do so. I am in a gathering information part of my proccess right now and so do not expect to have serious rankings I could post any time soon.

I reopened the polls and will let those run as suggested for a week or so. Or if voting is heavy and a clear winner is found I can move on more quickly than that also. But I have paitience and will see how that goes.

I thought about doing multi question polls also to possibly speed up the proccess.. but I am still undecided if that would work or not. Will give it more thought when I can. I have another 4 day weekend coming up so I should have some time again to dig deeper on this.

 

[Tick]

My thought last season when doing these was that speed was important. I don't remember my exact numbers, but I had some rules, like "After 30 votes, if a player has 10+, he wins. After 40 votes, if nobody has a three-vote lead, it's a runoff."

It seemed that when I left polls up longer, they didn't get a clear winner anyway, and I felt there was some value in getting through the polls quickly. If they drag out toward the draft or free agency periods, they lose some validity as player values jump or fall in the middle of the poll (for that reason, I also think they should start after the season ends - witness the injury to Kevin Jones).

In the end, any information is good information - what you're doing works.

 

[Biabreakable]

Hmmm I hadn't thought about that Tick. Perhaps faster results would be better just to have a completed product that can be useable quickly.

I was going for more accuracy based on a larger sample size rather than quick results from probobly a smaller percentage of participants.

I agree that significant injury such as what happened with Kevin Jones will definitly effect poll results and things like this are going to happen more the longer the polls take to complete. More changes will come from free agency in a couple months so I definitly want to be finished with the polls before that opens up.

I can see the merit of both methods of polling.

I think I will keep using my method of having paitience with the polls at least to a point where most of the starters have been ranked (for example after the top 25 for each position) and then I can try to speed them along after that.

Perhaps set a goal to have all polls completed by the end of this month.

 

[-OZ-]

Last note - Biabreakable, you have a terrific thread in the Shark Pool about building a dynasty team but the responses appear geared toward the offensive side. I would be interested to see something similar in this forum as well.

I know I usually can find talent, but have difficulty projecting how the system and supporting players will impact the IDP. I always assumed talent would win out in the end, but from year to year, this doesn't seem to hold true. Or maybe I'm just missing some keys to evaluating IDPs? Either way, the input from many here is invaluable.

 

[spec1alk]

Its a tought time of year. I think this week and next the IDP forum will return to life as more people come back to work from the holidays.

 

[houndirish]

I've always enjoyed voting in these threads but I can honestly say that with one league ending week 16 and another last weekend this is one of the rare times of year when I take a break from fantasy ball. My dynasty league doesn't start up again until February so I'm simply not here as often. I personally liked the dynasty rankings better when they were compiled in the offseason after free agency. Player movement will effect how I feel about some of the guys being voted on. For example, what happens to Lance Briggs value if the Bears don't re-sign him? Sometimes it's not even that clear. Think last year when Ray Lewis's value suddenly jumped back up again after Baltimore shored up the Defensive Tackle spot.

I love voting in the threads but I find the rankings to be more accurate and useful if we delay them until late winter.

 

[Biabreakable]

Point well taken about free agency coaching changes other news/circumstances possible injuries and the rookie draft all having a impact on how we will view players later on compared to now. I totaly agree.

Although I also strongly think that a dynasty ranking should do its best to try to take things like this into consideration and that we should have some conviction and commitment about how we rank/value a player long term.

The main purpose of doing these polls at this time is to generate a list that can be used in early offseason trading. So with that in mind perhaps my focus should be much less on accuracy/larger sample size and more on timeliness.

After sleeping on this suggestion (which I hadn't considered really before) I am leaning more that way. To have swift completion of the polls so they can be used more quickly.

Now how do I make a decision when two players have 6 votes and one player has 7?

That is as clear as mud.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Now how do I make a decision when two players have 6 votes and one player has 7?

I think Tick's "runoff" system is probably as good, if not better, than any other method. I believe it can generally be completed in a few days.