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IDP Dynasty Rebuild Thread (1 Viewer)

stevegamer

Footballguy
Jene: If this belongs in the AC forum, you can feel free to move it there, but my hope is to provide a look at one person's trials & tribulations with rebuilding a dynasty roster that never wquite got over the hump in the first place. I think the one I saw before wa int his forum, but it was off-season.

Intro:I was following someone else's dynasty rebuild thread in the off-season, and I decided a few weeks ago my team needed to be rebuilt. I thought I'd try and chronicle it here, so people could see my thought proceses, and learn from my mistakes, and (hopefully) succeses. I found this league through FBG, so I'm pretty sure everyone else in the league posts out here - so you won't get info on pending things too much, until they are final.

Also, I think it's easier in one respect to start rebuilding mid-eason. You have players who can help contenders,a nd you kno what you are. Since my team is not who i thought they wre, it's time to start rebuilding

Background:

12 team league, 45-man in season rosters starting QB,2RB,3WR,TE,PK,4DB, either a 3-4 OR 4-3 front

Full PPR, 4 pt pass TD's, all other TD's 6, Sack & Int = 6, FF/FR = 3/4, tackles are 2/1 solo/asst, except for DL, which is 3/2.

Team made the playoffs 2 seasons ago, and normally had a top 3-4 defense, and a top QB, but RB & WR have been a problem since I took it over.

Starting Roster:

QB

Anderson, Derek CLE QB

Brennan, Colt WAS QB ®

Manning, Peyton IND QB

Stanton, Drew DET QB

Manning should still be a force in 2 years - if he comes through this rough patch. His value is way down. Couldn't deal Anderson after last year for anything worthwhile, so he's still here. 2 prospect QB's.

RB

Buckhalter, Correll PHI RB

Forte, Matt CHI RB ®

Jones, Kevin CHI RB

Jones, Thomas NYJ RB

Parker, Willie PIT RB

Parmele, Jalen MIA RB ®

Sproles, Darren SDC RB

2 older backs who didn't score TD's last year, and Forte head up this group. Plan is to move Parker & TJones for younger players. No one else has much value here, except Forte, and I really don't want to deal a rookie who's producing this well.

WR

Breaston, Steve ARI WR

Bryant, Antonio TBB WR

Camarillo, Greg MIA WR

Clayton, Mark BAL WR

Curtis, Kevin PHI WR

Davis, Rashied CHI WR

Gage, Justin TEN WR (Q)

Higgins, Johnnie Lee OAK WR

Muhammad, Muhsin CAR WR

Porter, Jerry JAC WR

Robinson, Laurent ATL WR (P)

No WR1 in sight. really have never been able to solve the rpoblems I inherited at WR - Clayton & Charles Rogers never panned out, and Darrell Jackson helped for a while, but it's been at best a bunch of WR where I play matchups & hope. Would liek to dal Mushy for something, as he's playing well this season and can help a contender.

TE

Davis, Vernon SFO TE

Rosario, Dante CAR TE

Stevens, Jerramy TB TE

No real TE here. I draft KWII and he was hurt for his first 2 years. I dealt him away and took VDavis with a pick. davis won't blossom until I deal him. Major sore spot. Stevens needs to go as he's basically scum who mostly sucks.

PK

Kaeding, Nate SDC PK

Kaeding is a good young kicker.

DL

Kelly, Tommy OAK DT

Rogers, Shaun CLE DT

Stroud, Marcus BUF DT

Abraham, John ATL DE

Jenkins, Cullen GBP DE

Langford, Kendall MIA DE ®

Umenyiora, Osi NYG DE (I)

Osi & Abraham are very good DL in this league. Kelly & Rogers have had years when they are DL 1 or DL2, but Kelly has been underperforming. Osi's return next season makes this a good group again - but it can usie some paring down.

LB

Gaither, Omar PHI LB

Keiaho, Freddie IND LB

McIntosh, Roger WAS LB

Peterson, Mike JAC LB

Posluszny, Paul BUF LB

Rivers, Keith CIN LB ®

Thomas, Zach DAL LB

Zack & MPete are old, and not going to be good whn I get good again - but they have little value left. gaither lost the MLB job, and is basically no better than a bye week fill-in. Poz-Rivers looks like a decent twosome going forward, and McIntosh-Keiaho isn't

bad. No true LB1, but 4 solid options.

DB

Bell, Yeremiah MIA S

Milloy, Lawyer ATL S

Page, Jarrad KCC S

Whitner, Donte BUF S

Wilson, Gibril OAK S

Milloy is ancient, and was picked up this yar because I thought I could contend. He should be moved. Wilson is a DB1, and the other 3 are relatively young, and productive enough.

General

I was carrying more DL than I like, due to injury & byes. Need to find a solid WR somewhere - but that can wait until the off-season if needed.

Moves:

Add Durant, Justin JAC LB & drop Gaither, Omar PHI LB

- Durant was dropped, and I'm hoping to land the guy who lands in the middle for Jacksonville. Peterson has been good there, and Gaither's upside is very limited.

Traded Willie Parker for Bo Scaife, TE TEN, & a 1st round pick in 2009.

- the pick will likely be late, but Parker was hurt, and although he still had value, I felt this filled a gaping hole at TE, and netted me a pick.

Add Benson, Cedric CIN RB & drop Stevens, Jerramy TBB TE

- Exchang of knuckleheads, but Cincy had signd Benson, and he was out there, so I pounced. He's worth a flier, and I figured he could be starting in Cincy. I've already gotten offers for him, so it was definitely a move that adde value to the roster.

Add Bannan, Justin BAL DT, drop Jenkins, Cullen GBP DE

- Jenkins was out for the year, so I added a guy who was performing okay, and could get me through byes. Bannan won't be on the roster long.

Add Lowery, Dwight NYJ CB ®, drop Parmele, Jalen MIA RB ®

- Parmele leaves active roster, and I snagged benson, so I can try and get another young guy who is producing. He may only be good in his rookie season, but he's looked good when i saw him play.

Add McDonald, Shaun DET WR, drop Porter, Jerry JAC WR

- Porter is not in the the Jaguars' plans, and Detroit trades Roy Williams. A shot at a #2 WR - yeah, it's that bad. Hoping he plays well for a spurt.

Add Richardson, Jay OAK DE ® & Dobbins, Tim SDC LB drop Kelly, Tommy OAK DT & Bannan, Justin BAL DT

- Richardon has been pretty productive, and is a rookie. Dobbins was dropped, and should be more useful than Bannan.

Most of these moves have addressed the roster fringes, except for the acquisiton of the #1 pick & Scaife. Hopefully one of Benson & Durant will be a player that helps.

 
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Pretty interesting post and curious to see how it goes.

Not sure why you are so down on the Gaither but he's got more upside than Dobbins.

 
Pretty interesting post and curious to see how it goes.Not sure why you are so down on the Gaither but he's got more upside than Dobbins.
Being local to Philly, I have more Philly info. Gaither isn't going to be the MLB long-term, that's Stewart Bradley, since he replaced Gaither at MLB. The Eagles' WLB hasn't don't much traditionally.I expect to churn through some guys who get dropped, trying to keep the ones that seem better bets to me. I dropped Gaither for Durant, and I think Durant's got more upside.This week should be interesting, as I've got some guys who are in new roles or returning from injuries: Curtis, Benson, are the most prominent.Yet another waiver move:Add Kehl, Bryant NYG LB, Drop Stroud, Marcus BUF DT 6.Stroud is 30, and wasn't really useful for me this year - I grabbed him when I had injuries to Osi & Leonard Little (cut early in season). Kehl has a shot to be very productive, and is young. I liked what I saw of him when watching Giants games, and I was happy to see someone cut him.
 
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I applaud your efforts so far. The roster you inherited was in tough shape. This may be fundamental, but is worth saying in case a FYP (first year person) is reading.

Dynasty leagues are about positioning yourself to routinely make the playoffs and get hot or lucky during the playoffs to win it all.

That said, it is hard to objectively evaluate your chances because we all see the upside of the players we have on our roster (that is why they are on the roster in the first place).

The first step in rebuilding is the realizing that you can't compete on a regular basis to make the playoffs without significant luck. Congratulations, you figured this out.

The second step is setting a time frame for when you hope to be competitive. The reality is that the young players you acquire with trades or draft picks will need two or three years before they contribute to the point where you are competitive. Mentally, this is a real struggle for us fantasy guys because we do fantasy because we like to compete every game, right away. The objective during a 2008 rebuilding project is to be competitive in 2010 or 2011 and enjoy a good run of five or more years. Think about that for a minute; you won't be competitive the rest of this year or next year - make the short-term sacrifice for long-term success.

The third thing is to have a plan in mind for the players you have and the moves you make; keeping in mind the above stated goal - competitive in 2010 or 2011. Now this doesn't mean you go out today and make the best trades you can to get young players; you have two years to maximize value and it might mean adding a guy that you intend on trading later. This means you understand who is on your roster and who fits into your 2010 plan. The players who don't fit, evaluate when their value might peak and plan to propose trades at that time.

The fourth thing is to know the league. Only a limited number of owners in each league entertain trades while others think very highly of the players on their roster (easy to see only the upside). Figure out who responds to trades; who wastes your time with only lopsided counter-offers; but most importantly, know their record, where they stand in competing for playoff spots; who gets injured on their roster leaving certain positions weak; and know the hot trading periods - during preseason and mid-season when owners view their team as competitive and they try to plug any holes in their roster (injuries, byes).

The fifth thing is to maintain sound mental health:

* be patient with your players - it takes 2-3 years for them to develop

* don't look back - don't beat yourself up about stuff you did in the past - nothing you can do about it now, so stay focused on the future.

* never put fantasy above stuff thats really important like family, friends, and work

* have fun for god's sake - this is the real reason why we do this

 
I applaud your efforts so far. The roster you inherited was in tough shape. This may be fundamental, but is worth saying in case a FYP (first year person) is reading.
Unfortunately, this wasn't an recent inheritance - :confused: - I got this team about 6 years ago. It was in much worse shape then with no real solid dynasty RB or WR on the roster: Eddie George in his last year, Thomas Jones, Marty Booker as the WR 1. Finsihed with the #1 overall pick my first two seasons.
Dynasty leagues are about positioning yourself to routinely make the playoffs and get hot or lucky during the playoffs to win it all.

That said, it is hard to objectively evaluate your chances because we all see the upside of the players we have on our roster (that is why they are on the roster in the first place).

The first step in rebuilding is the realizing that you can't compete on a regular basis to make the playoffs without significant luck. Congratulations, you figured this out.
I understand that - there's a team that's been dominant in my division for as long as I've ben in the league - he's got mnultiple titles. For a couple years, I was somewhat threatening his hold on the division, and made the playoffs once, making it to the champioship & losing to him in close game.I built around defense & QB, since that what was easy to acquire (started with PManning), and it worked.

The second step is setting a time frame for when you hope to be competitive. The reality is that the young players you acquire with trades or draft picks will need two or three years before they contribute to the point where you are competitive. Mentally, this is a real struggle for us fantasy guys because we do fantasy because we like to compete every game, right away. The objective during a 2008 rebuilding project is to be competitive in 2010 or 2011 and enjoy a good run of five or more years. Think about that for a minute; you won't be competitive the rest of this year or next year - make the short-term sacrifice for long-term success.

The third thing is to have a plan in mind for the players you have and the moves you make; keeping in mind the above stated goal - competitive in 2010 or 2011. Now this doesn't mean you go out today and make the best trades you can to get young players; you have two years to maximize value and it might mean adding a guy that you intend on trading later. This means you understand who is on your roster and who fits into your 2010 plan. The players who don't fit, evaluate when their value might peak and plan to propose trades at that time.
This is the hardest thing for me. I have basically no idea who will still have value in 2010, besides the obvious candidates on my roster. Additionally, the two teams in my division that have been down, have been rebuilding, and at least one of them has seemed to always have more talent than I did, but just didn't quite apply it due to ownership changeovers. And the team thathas been dominant all this time is slumping worse than he ever has - so really the time to strike would be now; if I had the roster to do it. Due to a win last week, and the restof the divison losing, I'm just 2 games out.
The fourth thing is to know the league. Only a limited number of owners in each league entertain trades while others think very highly of the players on their roster (easy to see only the upside). Figure out who responds to trades; who wastes your time with only lopsided counter-offers; but most importantly, know their record, where they stand in competing for playoff spots; who gets injured on their roster leaving certain positions weak; and know the hot trading periods - during preseason and mid-season when owners view their team as competitive and they try to plug any holes in their roster (injuries, byes).

The fifth thing is to maintain sound mental health:

* be patient with your players - it takes 2-3 years for them to develop

* don't look back - don't beat yourself up about stuff you did in the past - nothing you can do about it now, so stay focused on the future.

* never put fantasy above stuff thats really important like family, friends, and work

* have fun for god's sake - this is the real reason why we do this
The bolded is something I try to remember when realizing how horrid my first round picks have been over the years. I'm awful at drafting from the 1.01 spot: Charles Rogers, Kevin Jones.Since I don't know any of the guys in the league in real life, I'm not as active as I am in local leagues, and it doesn't seem to have a whole lot of trading going on, so I try and scour the waiver wire for useful bits.

 
Staus update, currently sitting 9th out of 12 overall. 3rd in division, 2 games out.

Waiver Move:

Add Reggie Brown PHI WR, drop Rashied Davis CHI WR

- Borwn is younger, and plays on a more explosive offense. I was hoping to see mopre out of Davis, as he was one of my lseepers this year, but Orton isn't going his way a lot, so I'm giving up on him, as I don't think he'll be useful when I need him.

 
A pair of waiver moves that I think will help shore things up on D:

Add Harris, Napoleon MIN LB & Harper, Roman NOS S

Drop Rosario, Dante CAR TE & Milloy, Lawyer ATL S

Harper for Milloy is a no-brainer for a rebuilding team. When I saw him get dropped, I pounced - I had him his rookie year, but needed to drop him as I was contending, and got beaten to the punch getting him back late in the year. Harris has been productive as the MLB in MIN, and rosario hasn't done much. I've already Vernon Davis as a speculative TE, so I don't need Rosario so much.

I'm pretty happy with my DL & DB's at this point, since it's now:

Rogers, Shaun CLE DT

Abraham, John ATL DE

Langford, Kendall MIA DE ®

Richardson, Jay OAK DE

Umenyiora, Osi NYG DE (I)

- I got the excess numbers down, and have what should be 3 solid guys next season to start: Umeniyora/Abraham/Rogers. Still looking for a solid 4th guy who is fairly young. Abraham is old, but very productive - he & Rogers are DL1's in my league this year- and Osi has traditonally been one as well. Should be an above-average unit again next year, with a decent shot at being elite with Osi's return. We're #4 in DL scoring, and some teams start 4 DL, which I don't do except in extreme emergency.

Lowery, Dwight NYJ CB ®

Bell, Yeremiah MIA S

Harper, Roman NOS S

Page, Jarrad KCC S (P)

Whitner, Donte BUF S

Wilson, Gibril OAK S (P)

- I thought this group was pretty good with Wilson & Bell to start with - they are both DB1's in my league. Adding Harper helps make me younger. Bell is the greybeard here. I'm getting elite performance this year from this spot - #1 scoring DB group.

Overall, we're #5 in scoring, having had 2 very good weeks, both wins. We were the highest scoring team this week.

Next up is a focus on WR & LB.

 
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I'm not sure I understand the Nap. Harris move for a rebuilding team? I see the short term value as he fills in at MLB for Henderson but I see very little long term value. Is this a move to help with another future move?

 
I'm not sure I understand the Nap. Harris move for a rebuilding team? I see the short term value as he fills in at MLB for Henderson but I see very little long term value. Is this a move to help with another future move?
My thoughts exactly. Pick up a LB with future upside, like Durant, not Harris who most likely won't have a starting job next year, unless you plan to immediately start looking for trades with teams needing LB help. My other thoughts:Why is Langford on your roster? DE's in a 3-4 defense are not reliable as fantasy starters; drop him and pick up someone with more long-term potential. Should Page even be on a fantasy roster? He has scored better this year, but as a free safety his tackle numbers are too hit or miss for me. As a first round draft pick, Whitner has a better reputation than he does fantasy production - look to trade him; Buffalo's defensive scheme favors the CB's anyway, not the safeties.
 
To answer the questions above:

Langford is rostered because I saw one of the games where he got a sack, and he looked good. I realize he's a 3-4 DE, and honestly, he's likely to get cut so I can pick up some other prospects - with Rogers likely out, I need another DL to start, and he hasn't been good since i picked him up.

I think Page HAS to be on a roster in this league. Page is the #33 DB overall, and we have 12 teams starting 4 DB's - he's a bit lower down on weekly average, but some of those guys are on IR, but he's still scoring like a DB3-DB4. I could cut guys like that, I guess, but I figure cutting a guy who is a healthy DB3 or so in a start 4 league when the guy isn't old would be kind of dumb - it puts me further behind my competition. And I do have the #1 DB unit in the league by starter points. No one is carrying fewer DB's than my 6 rostered - it's a 45 man active roster. Whitner was in the DB3-4 range the last 2 years.

Trades in this league involving IDP's who aren't LB's or aren't studs are rare without more offensive players involved, and there are maybe 10-12 trades a year, total.

I was going to try and start sending out some deals offering up some of my LB's. Of course Peterson's little value he had is now shot. I already have Durant rostered.

Additionally, I've got no takers on my veteran guys like Mushin Muhammad & Thomas Jones.

 
The objective during a 2008 rebuilding project is to be competitive in 2010 or 2011 and enjoy a good run of five or more years. Think about that for a minute; you won't be competitive the rest of this year or next year - make the short-term sacrifice for long-term success.
Its not IDP specific, but I wanted to note that even in a dynasty league, I think all moves should be made with an eye towards one of two goals - win this year, or win next year. Putting your horizon at 2-3 years is too far. A team in rebuilding mode, and playing poorly, should be able to scour the waiver wire in Year 1 for decent IDP players who will develop into better players in Year 2 - WRs and TEs also fit this bill. A top pick in the rookie draft can net a good long-term starting RB or 2 if you have acquired extra picks in the draft. QBs can be tough to find, but you should have a couple of starting QBs on the roster - and I think the spread between good QBs and mediocre QBs is relatively small - if you find your self in contention - you can always trade for a Kurt Warner-type who has more short-term value than long-term value.I took over a dismal dynasty team in a 16-team league two years ago - first year was awful, drafted Peterson last year, picked up the likes of Marshall, Colston, R. Grant on the waiver wire - finished 2nd last year, and have a play-off bound team again this year. I have a contending team, that now has lots of depth (if not a stable QB) built almost exclusively on FAs. As mentioned, it still requires luck, avoiding too many injuries, etc., but nobody can control those factors.
 
The objective during a 2008 rebuilding project is to be competitive in 2010 or 2011 and enjoy a good run of five or more years. Think about that for a minute; you won't be competitive the rest of this year or next year - make the short-term sacrifice for long-term success.
Its not IDP specific, but I wanted to note that even in a dynasty league, I think all moves should be made with an eye towards one of two goals - win this year, or win next year. Putting your horizon at 2-3 years is too far. A team in rebuilding mode, and playing poorly, should be able to scour the waiver wire in Year 1 for decent IDP players who will develop into better players in Year 2 - WRs and TEs also fit this bill. A top pick in the rookie draft can net a good long-term starting RB or 2 if you have acquired extra picks in the draft. QBs can be tough to find, but you should have a couple of starting QBs on the roster - and I think the spread between good QBs and mediocre QBs is relatively small - if you find your self in contention - you can always trade for a Kurt Warner-type who has more short-term value than long-term value.I took over a dismal dynasty team in a 16-team league two years ago - first year was awful, drafted Peterson last year, picked up the likes of Marshall, Colston, R. Grant on the waiver wire - finished 2nd last year, and have a play-off bound team again this year. I have a contending team, that now has lots of depth (if not a stable QB) built almost exclusively on FAs. As mentioned, it still requires luck, avoiding too many injuries, etc., but nobody can control those factors.
I'm trying to respond to posts as they show up to generate converation.I don't think I have a definite time in mind to contend, because I think I can't magically say "this is my year" at some point in the future. I'm trying to remove guys from the roster who won't help much in the future, because if I don't contend next year, they are of little use to me. I agree with you, but there's been a team in my divison that has been absolutely stacked for a long time - so the playoff spot open is the wild card. I did manage to get to contention previously, notably through grabbing Parker off waivers, and would've been last year if it wasn't for a complete meltdown at RB: Parker/Jones/Jones combining for squat as far as TD's. You got lucky to have the 1.01 in ADP's year - he panned out very nicely. When your 1.01 or even high first busts or semi-busts, it causes problems. I seem to have trouble picking well in round 1. I'm hoping that Benson might turn out to be the same kind of find.This team's specific challenge is that the problem areas aren't really on defense, which is easier to fix. If you've got a problem area of RB or WR - you have trouble making headway. While some folks don't like my DB group, it's the #1 scoring DB group in the league and my DB group, even with some turnover, is normally a top 3-4 scoring DB group. I can plug holes there or at DL through waivers.Problem areas are QB, TE, WR, & LB this year - LB not really a big problem, but I'm not getting my usual advantages there. QB is fixed if Peyton returns to form.
 
A few things of note here for me...more observations than anything else...

I have 10 dynasty teams...but have only been playing in dynasty leagues 2 years...only 3 of my teams were picked by me....2 of those are strong contenders..one is not..

Of the remaining 7....I am only in contention in 2.....

Taking over a dynasty league team...Usually means taking one of the worst teams in the league....Some of theses teams are abysmal.....I am finding it not so easy to turn them around....I am making progress in most....but no huge leaps...

I have found at least for me...that a first RD pic..who does not pan out..is Extremly costly....Mendenhal for example killed me this year....

The other thing I have found...is finding a True WR1 ( qb's are easier to play matchups with and RB's have allot of turnover)...is the hardest spot to fill.....

WR2 can be had....in trade and on WW...but the # 1's are tough...

Guys dont want to trade them....and they just dont pop up on WW ( i did grab a bunch of possibles this year ..to see if any pan out next year..something i did not try last year..not to the extent i am this year anyway)...

I just offered Evans/Paker and a high first RD pick for Marshall...and was turned down..

I did just recently trade Warner for Bowe in one league(cutler/cassel are my others)..and seem to be in a good spot with some rookie WR picks from last year..with Avery and Morgan..but well see..

Lastly...it is not as easy as some would indicate here to rebuild D....guys say...u can do it through waivers...u can to a degree...but there is a reason these guys are on the WW....

Just my 2 cents....

 
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Lastly...it is not as easy as some would indicate here to rebuild D....guys say...u can do it through waivers...u can to a degree...but there is a reason these guys are on the WW....Just my 2 cents....
I have found it easier to rebuild IDP but it depends on the league. It takes a fair amount of time to read and understand defensive schemes, draft pick profiles, training camp reports, in-season injury reports, and personnel changes. Some twelve-team leagues seem to have nine knowledgeable owners while other leagues only have five. Its much easier to rebuild IDP when only four other owners have the same depth of knowledge that you do. Just review the rosters in your league and you can tell who knows what. I have found it most difficult to rebuild defensive lineman. It seems there are always linebackers and defensive backs coming up on the waiver wire, but so few DL become available.
 
Dirty Hairy said:
Lastly...it is not as easy as some would indicate here to rebuild D....guys say...u can do it through waivers...u can to a degree...but there is a reason these guys are on the WW....Just my 2 cents....
I have found it easier to rebuild IDP but it depends on the league. It takes a fair amount of time to read and understand defensive schemes, draft pick profiles, training camp reports, in-season injury reports, and personnel changes. Some twelve-team leagues seem to have nine knowledgeable owners while other leagues only have five. Its much easier to rebuild IDP when only four other owners have the same depth of knowledge that you do. Just review the rosters in your league and you can tell who knows what. I have found it most difficult to rebuild defensive lineman. It seems there are always linebackers and defensive backs coming up on the waiver wire, but so few DL become available.
I agree that fixing the IDP side of the ball, particularly in a league where you have a lot of starters is easier. I have foudn it pretty easy to rebuild my D through waivers, and non 1st round picks. Of course we start a full D in either 3-4 or 4-3.The only 1st rounder on D (the roster is above) I've taken was Poz. Rivers came to me in the 2nd this year. I've generally hit pretty well on DB picks, although sometimes they get hurt, and I cut them for the roster space (Dunta Robinson) or they stop producing (Michael Boulware) but there's short-term productivity and then turnover there at that spot. I don't like drafting DL - I've had a bad time with picks like Udeze.I'd try and treat your last DL spot & DB spot as places you just pick up wahtever guy interests you, if you have no fees for drop/add & can do it. My league is tackle-heavy for DL with a sack being 6, and a solo being 3, with an assist at 2. It makes good DT's more valuable.You might also try moving offense for defense, as people value O more.
 
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Due to some unforseen circumstances, and 0.20 point win to extend a 3-game win streak this week, things have gotten interesting. It's one of those decision points that every owner faces: are you a contender or a builder?

Here's how I'm reaching that decision - and to see if my prior decision of "builder" needs adjusting.

Data up to the moment:

My team is 5-5, and is one game behind in the wild card race, and 2 games behind in division - but current #1 team overall & wildcard are in division.

My team is #4 in scoring, but only 91 points sepaarate 2nd through 6th, average score in this league per week is around 240.

Games remain against #1 overall team & wildcard, plus another team which could be a tough matchup.

If I win out, I am not guaranteed the wildcard, since there are 2 teams with better records than me not leading their divisions.

If I go 2-1, it depends what game I lose; if I go 1-2, I will not make the playoffs under almost any scenarios.

I feel this decision is easy - and that I'm still a builder. If things break right, I will go to the playoffs, if not, I will still be continuing along the course of aiming for next season & the season after.

Given that decision, and since bye week are finished, there won't be teams looking for fill-in type talent much. Therefore any deals I make with an eye towards the future must involve players who can start for other teams and produce. Based on league scoring, the following older guys (29+) could have some value - overall points rank at position listed:

Peyton Manning - #7 QB

Thomas Jones - #6 RB

Mushin Muhammad - #30 WR

Shaun Rogers - #3 DL

John Abraham - #5 DL

Yeremiah Bell - #1 DB

Zach Thomas - #31 LB

I view Manning as still being an elite dynasty QB, so he stays - plus he's my only starter right now. Jones hasn't gotten too many nibbles, but it could be worth trying again. Muhammad is borderline, but would upgrade #3 WR for teams, likewise Thomas for LB - we can start 4. The 2 DL should have significant interst, and I think can offer one up with Osi coming back next year. Bell should also get some interest.

Time to see what I can come up with on the trade front.

Waiver move:

Add Pollard, Bernard KCC S, Drop Jarrad Page, KCC S

I think Pollard is likely the better prospect longer-term.

 
I have a couple guys who lost starting jobs in Derek Anderson & Mike Peterson, who I intend to hold. & hope forbetter opportunity next year. Neither have much value right now, and I know Peterson is older, but he's not far removed from being a very useful linebacker. Anderson will end up elsewhere, I'm hoping fighting for a starting job.

Durant might get to be the MLB in Jacksonville, so that could work out for me.

Waiver move:

Add Woodyard, Wesley DEN LB, drop McDonald, Shaun DET WR

Lions are a train wreck, and McDonald isn't really talented - plus I have enough other similar options - 6 guys on my roster are WR3's by weekly average - nobody higher, but I don't need a non-pspect who's not in that tier. Woodyard has loked good as a rookie, maybe he sticks in DEN in a good role.

 
Someitmes things don't go as planned. A couple things have made this rebuild plan become tricky:

1. Not getting nibbles on offers to deal away players to other teams for their stretch run. Right now, there is a divison with 4 teams tied for first (admittedly all at 5-7).

2. I'm currently holding down a playoff berth. The team has rolled off 5 straight wins, beating a couple teams who were ahead of me in the playoff pecking order.

With 2 weeks to go, I'm now in the dangerous positon sitting on the fence of contending while rebuilding. There are 2 teams that have the same record I do, but they both have scored less than I have, one of which is pretty far back, and would need a bunch of luck to catch up in scoring - he needs a lot of help to get the wild card, as I face the other team in 2 weeks, which will very likely decide the Wild Card. I don't need help to take this playoff spot, if I take care of business, it's mine. If things get really wacky, I could be in great shape, going into next week with an upset or two occuring.

So the plan for now is:

1. Don't give up any assets that I plan to be part of my future.

2. Make moves on the fringes, and play to try and secure that playoff berth.

With that in mind, I've made one move, and will be looking another waiver move or two to try and get some injury coverage depth:

Add Boiman, Rocky KCC LB; drop Dobbins, Tim SDC LB

Boiman is playing well, and while I doubt he's the future in KC - he' practically the defintion of replacement level talent - a LB who's producing can't be left on the wire right now. Dobbins seems pretty fungible - clearly I erred in dropping Gaither for him. Oh well.

 
Ah yes, the "perpetually mediocre" trap.

Good enough to compete for the playoffs and pray for luck once in the playoffs.

Rebuilding in not a half-way deal. Don't be tempted by the short-term benefits while postponing what you really need to do now - rebuild.

This is me, but I'd be shopping Thomas Jones for Mendenhall, Maroney, or Torrain.

 
Dirty Hairy said:
Ah yes, the "perpetually mediocre" trap. Good enough to compete for the playoffs and pray for luck once in the playoffs.Rebuilding in not a half-way deal. Don't be tempted by the short-term benefits while postponing what you really need to do now - rebuild.This is me, but I'd be shopping Thomas Jones for Mendenhall, Maroney, or Torrain.
I knew that I'd get some grief for goign his route, and I deliberately opened myself up to the criticism by posting the update. I could've waited to see what happenened, and then updated, but I thought it would be best for people to see how tempting that playoff run can be. I'm the #5 scoring team at this point, so while I'm a bit off the top scoring team's pace, I'm right in there with everyone else who would make the playoffs, or ahead of them. Maybe my lineup selection has been good to make up the difference.I hear you about the "perpetually mediocre" trap, but right now, my older players aren't valued. The division that is all below .500 certainly is hurting matters - as they have a couple teams farther away than I am from being consistently good. No one has had the least bit of interest in Jones - I couldn't move him for a 2nd & a 3rd rounder when I tried a week or two ago. At this point, I think he'll be a solid starter next year, so he's staying. I guess I could cut guys like Muhammad, Z. Thomas, etc, but that seems pointless to me - why toss something that helps someone on the wire, when right now, it helps me if I make the playoffs & hope to get a bit lucky. It's a 45 man roster, so there aren't a lot of flyers on the wire I like, and the rookie RB's who didn't pan out are on teams with poor records and are either toast or waiting for the lever to be pushed down.
 
Well, the regular season has ended and the playoffs are underway. I made a couple more small waiver moves to tweak the team:

Add Hartley, Garrett NOS PK, drop Kaeding, Nate SDC PK

Missed FG's are negative points in this league, and the Chargers' TD's are down, andhis FG mises are up. Hartley is the new Saints kicker, and they have a potent offense - he's #1 in PPG since he got the job.

Add Parmele, Jalen BAL RB, drop Celek, Brent PHI TE

Eagles righted the ship, and Celek didn't steal the job as I expected. He might take oer next yeror Smith might be back, or they might get a better TE. I'd rather take a chance on a RB prospect. I drafted Parmele, and now that he's on a team again, he's on my roster again.

Lookign at what I have going itno 2009 - the Offensive core going into 2009 is:

QB: Manning

RB: Forte, TJones

WR: Bryant

Manning is Manning. Forte should be solid, and I hope Jones can be a solid starter agin. He's had no value in the league before the trade deadline. we'll see what happens in the off-season. Bryant is my best WR, and that's not good. He's right now a WR1 in my league, but I'm thinking of him as really a #2 for my team. I really need a #1 WR. The rest of my WR are a bunch of WR2-WR4typoe guys, some wiht upside, and some are vets who provide depth. TE is VDavis & Scaife - below average starters, really more TE2 types. I hope Hartley helps my kicker problem.

Defensive core going into 2009:

DL: Umeniyora, Rogers, Abraham

LB: Posluzny, Rivers, Keiaho, Durant

DB: GWilson, Bell

My DL is really good, and my DB's are solid, with a bunch of DB3-4 types beihnd those 2 guys. I'm hoping 1 or 2 of those LB's can show to be consistent LB2 types or better.

Draft picks:

All my own picks plus an extra late 1st rounder (1.09 or 1.10 - not sure which it will be). This will give me 2 late 1st round picks.

Since waivers are still open, I intend to take a look and see if there's anyone else who can help my team for next year.

However, I have to balance that with the fact that I did make the playoffs, and am playing for the title this upcoming week - posted the high score in playoff round 1. I still think I need to retool this team, particularly to improve the WR & TE spots for the longer term. It jut gets put on hold for one more week.

 
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A few roster moves to clear out fungible players, and add 3 guys who might have increased roles or look promising.

Cut:

LB KCC Rocky Boiman

DL TEN Jacob Ford

DL OAK Jay Richardson

Add:

QB NYJ Kellen Clemens

RB TEN Quinton Ganther

RB MIA Patrick Cobbs

Clemens could be the QB post-Favre, and I need a bckup QB. Cobbs has shown some things in Miami, and he was on my roster previously. Ganther is a guy I saw flash in preseason, and I think he can flat out play. He's been under the radar, and I grabbed him before week 17, as I think he will show he can play in regular season action.

I still can make moves for a bit longer, but other than being heavy at DB, I'm not sure where I'm going to cut players at this point.

Here's the end of season roster after some waiver moves.

NOS PK Hartley, Garrett

CLE QB Anderson, Derek

NYJ QB Clemens, Kellen

IND QB Manning, Peyton

DET QB Stanton, Drew

CIN RB Benson, Cedric

PHI RB Buckhalter, Correll

MIA RB Cobbs, Patrick

CHI RB Forte, Matt

TEN RB Ganther, Quinton

CHI RB Jones, Kevin

NYJ RB Jones, Thomas

BAL RB Parmele, Jalen

SDC RB Sproles, Darren

SFO TE Davis, Vernon

TEN TE Scaife, Bo

ARI WR Breaston, Steve

PHI WR Brown, Reggie

TBB WR Bryant, Antonio

MIA WR Camarillo, Greg

BAL WR Clayton, Mark

PHI WR Curtis, Kevin

TEN WR Gage, Justin

OAK WR Higgins, Johnnie Lee

CAR WR Muhammad, Muhsin

ATL WR Robinson, Laurent

OAK WR Schilens, Chaz

ATL DL Abraham, John

CLE DL Rogers, Shaun

NYG DL Umenyiora, Osi

JAC LB Durant, Justin

IND LB Keiaho, Freddie

WAS LB McIntosh, Roger

JAC LB Peterson, Mike

BUF LB Posluszny, Paul

CIN LB Rivers, Keith

DAL LB Thomas, Zach

DEN LB Woodyard, Wesley

DEN DB Barrett, Josh

MIA DB Bell, Yeremiah

NOS DB Harper, Roman

NYJ DB Lowery, Dwight

KCC DB Pollard, Bernard

BUF DB Whitner, Donte

OAK DB Wilson, Gibril

I hold the 1.09 and the 1.12 picks in the first round in next years draft; I picked up the extra 1st rounder in a deal giving up Willie Parker. I have my own picks in the other rounds.

 
A few roster moves to clear out fungible players, and add 3 guys who might have increased roles or look promising.

Cut:

LB KCC Rocky Boiman

DL TEN Jacob Ford

DL OAK Jay Richardson

Add:

QB NYJ Kellen Clemens

RB TEN Quinton Ganther

RB MIA Patrick Cobbs

Clemens could be the QB post-Favre, and I need a bckup QB. Cobbs has shown some things in Miami, and he was on my roster previously. Ganther is a guy I saw flash in preseason, and I think he can flat out play. He's been under the radar, and I grabbed him before week 17, as I think he will show he can play in regular season action.

I still can make moves for a bit longer, but other than being heavy at DB, I'm not sure where I'm going to cut players at this point.

Here's the end of season roster after some waiver moves.

NOS PK Hartley, Garrett

CLE QB Anderson, Derek

NYJ QB Clemens, Kellen

IND QB Manning, Peyton

DET QB Stanton, Drew

CIN RB Benson, Cedric

PHI RB Buckhalter, Correll

MIA RB Cobbs, Patrick

CHI RB Forte, Matt

TEN RB Ganther, Quinton

CHI RB Jones, Kevin

NYJ RB Jones, Thomas

BAL RB Parmele, Jalen

SDC RB Sproles, Darren

SFO TE Davis, Vernon

TEN TE Scaife, Bo

ARI WR Breaston, Steve

PHI WR Brown, Reggie

TBB WR Bryant, Antonio

MIA WR Camarillo, Greg

BAL WR Clayton, Mark

PHI WR Curtis, Kevin

TEN WR Gage, Justin

OAK WR Higgins, Johnnie Lee

CAR WR Muhammad, Muhsin

ATL WR Robinson, Laurent

OAK WR Schilens, Chaz

ATL DL Abraham, John

CLE DL Rogers, Shaun

NYG DL Umenyiora, Osi

JAC LB Durant, Justin

IND LB Keiaho, Freddie

WAS LB McIntosh, Roger

JAC LB Peterson, Mike

BUF LB Posluszny, Paul

CIN LB Rivers, Keith

DAL LB Thomas, Zach

DEN LB Woodyard, Wesley

DEN DB Barrett, Josh

MIA DB Bell, Yeremiah

NOS DB Harper, Roman

NYJ DB Lowery, Dwight

KCC DB Pollard, Bernard

BUF DB Whitner, Donte

OAK DB Wilson, Gibril

I hold the 1.09 and the 1.12 picks in the first round in next years draft; I picked up the extra 1st rounder in a deal giving up Willie Parker. I have my own picks in the other rounds.
I would be dangling Antonio Bryant on the open market, sell high.
 
I agree with the Bryant comment, unlikely he repeats that performance, I also think he is 1 strike away from a year long suspension and I think if the NFL has proven 1 thing for sure, the bad guys stay bad and will eventually screw your fantasy team and their lives up. I would target teams that have weak wr'ers and hope for maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder or young guy you think may pan out.

 
I agree with the Bryant comment, unlikely he repeats that performance, I also think he is 1 strike away from a year long suspension and I think if the NFL has proven 1 thing for sure, the bad guys stay bad and will eventually screw your fantasy team and their lives up. I would target teams that have weak wr'ers and hope for maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder or young guy you think may pan out.
Bryant is a very difficult player to handle right now, but particularly for me due to 3 factors: 1. My team has close to the worst WR's in the league - maybe 1-2 worse teams.

2. Bryant was my best WR this year.

3. I couldn't trade Thomas Jones down the stretch for a 2nd rounder to teams in the playoff hunt and he was producing.

Trades don't seem to happen much in this league, particularly in the off-season, so we'll see. I might try and package him with another player who I think has some value.

 
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I agree with you keeping Bryant stevegamer unless someone wants to part with a pick in round 1. Sure, he may screw up again and fall quickly but as you pointed out you probably need him more than what someone will pay for him. If you can only get a 2nd or 3rd round pick he was already worth more than that with what he gave you this year.

I like a lot of what you did with your roster. I think you got kind of lucky in spots such as the big year by Thomas Jones but you are decent enough everywhere. You just need to hopefully hit with successful rookies in the draft. I am of the opinion of in leagues such as this it is more important to hit on your rookie picks above filling needs in position. Sure it is nice to hit on that RB spot but don't reach too deeply at a position and pass up on a player you feel has a great chance of becoming a starting player at his position.

 
I agree with the Bryant comment, unlikely he repeats that performance, I also think he is 1 strike away from a year long suspension and I think if the NFL has proven 1 thing for sure, the bad guys stay bad and will eventually screw your fantasy team and their lives up. I would target teams that have weak wr'ers and hope for maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder or young guy you think may pan out.
Bryant is a very difficult player to handle right now, but particularly for me due to 3 factors: 1. My team has close to the worst WR's in the league - maybe 1-2 worse teams.

2. Bryant was my best WR this year.

3. I couldn't trade Thomas Jones down the stretch for a 2nd rounder to teams in the playoff hunt and he was producing.

Trades don't seem to happen much in this league, particularly in the off-season, so we'll see. I might try and package him with another player who I think has some value.
Update: Bryant isn't fetching a TE upgrade or a 2nd round pick, even when packaged with an older LB3 type like Thomas. Oh well, he's staying on.
 
Okay, I've got some time so I would update this thread. I have a feeling this thread isn't going to be nearly as useful to people looking for things to do or avoid as I hoped. There aren't a lot of trades in my league. That means you can't see too many bold strokes - and I'd probably get them wrong anyway. Of course,. you can learn from my mistakes.

However, there is one thing I hope I can get people to understand, and that's how to make a playoff run without hurting a rebuild. I know that's counter-intuitive, so let me explain.

In the 2008 season, the formerly dominant team in my division was down somewhat, and the league was fairly balanced. I was losing and started rebuilding. After dealing away Willie Parker for a 1st round pick to the #1 team, I couldn't make more deals - trying to get a 2nd for Thomas Jones wasn't happening, no action on Antonio Bryant or Mushin Muhammad. My post looking to rebuild said "Looking to rebuild, since this team as currently constructed isn't going to cut it."

And then I started winning. When I made the decision to try simultaneously rebuild and contend, there were some comments like this:

Ah yes, the "perpetually mediocre" trap.

Good enough to compete for the playoffs and pray for luck once in the playoffs.

Rebuilding is not a half-way deal. Don't be tempted by the short-term benefits while postponing what you really need to do now - rebuild.

This is me, but I'd be shopping Thomas Jones for Mendenhall, Maroney, or Torrain.
I was offered a 3rd rounder for Jones. That's not good enough for how he was performing. I bolded the note about the half-way deal, because you can work the fringes of your roster to try and get into the playoffs, and still rebuild.The way I described that when I started doing it was:

1. Don't give up any assets that I plan to be part of my future.

2. Make moves on the fringes, and play to try and secure that playoff berth.

I had some luck in that I had a few core players who were playing well, and I didn't need to do anything - (Manning, Forte, TJones, Abraham, Rogers, Bell, GWilson) and could make fringe moves to get a matchup at DL3 or LB4 or WR3 and see what happened.

As we all know, getting to the playoffs is mostly skill, and once you get to the playoffs, the game swings heavily from skill to luck. I'm proud to say, my team came out on the winning end in both playoff games. So I got the title. Now to rebuild this team so I can contend a bit more efficiently.

Here's the current roster:

QB PManning,

DAnderson, Clemens, Stanton

RB Forte, TJones

Benson, Buckhalter, Cobbs, Forsett, Ganther, KJones, Parmele, Sproles

WR ABryant, Breaston, Muhammad

RBrown, Camarillo, MarkClayton, Curtis, Gage, Higgins, LRobinson, Schillens

TE Scaife

Celek, VDavis

PK Hartley

DL Abraham, SRogers, Umenyiora,

no reserves

LB Durant, Peterson, Posluszny, Rivers

Keiaho, McIntosh, ZThomas, Woodyard

DB Bell, Harper, Pollard, GWilson

Whitner, Donte

Picks:

1.09 and the 1.12 - 7.12

Clearly I need to address a few areas:

TE: I can't draft these guys to save my life properly. I drafted Winslow a couple years back and dealt him after his second injury, and rolled the dice on V Davis. I'd like to trade for a top TE. I got Scaife last year, and he helped, but he's simply okay.

WR: My WR pretty much suck every year, unless I catch lightning in a bottle - I'm hoping Bryant has more staying power than some of my prior one year wonders, like Drew Bennett. A good number of W3 candidates to play matchups with, at least.

RB: I could use another young one, but everyone always can in dynasty. I don't expect any of the top prospects to fall to me. I do have 3 starters, plus Sproles.

LB: Zach is essentially done, and Peterson's shelf life is very short. Durant/Rivers/Pozluzny is a nice trio, I think, and adding another player to it will help.

I will need to see who's available at 1.09, if I keep the pick. I could go any of a number of directions with it. It's more likely that I will go WR or LB, since I don't think there will be any good RB prospects left, and I can upgrade my "hoping to pan out" WR corps or replace Zach Thomas. I could also go QB if one of the big two I there, since that will give me a backup to Manning, and I happen to have a Lion & a Jet QB I could cut.

Trying to start working on some trade things, and we'll see how this goes.

 
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:goodposting: in some dynasty leagues it's darn near impossible to make the playoffs while rebuilding, so few teams make it and there's a wide disparity in quality of the teams. In others, it's not as difficult because there's a more even playing field. If I'm in a league where you can make the playoffs with a decent, but not spectacular team, I likely won't ever go into full rebuild mode. If the league is widely split, I won't half-attempt it.

Good luck

 

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