IDP vs. Team D (1 Viewer)

[NYCGangGreen]

I have a hard time when i look through some of these postings and see comments like...

"My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137."

C'mon, if you all are such FF fans and obviously spend so much time on sites like this...

Do yourself a favor, and UPGRADE TO IDP!!!!!!!!!

I have no respect for Team D leagues, they are in my eyes the most generic form of this game. IDP has been in my league for 5 years now, and every year we add more of them.

2 DL, 3 LB, 3DB....it helps to take away the "advantage" of a guy who drafts RB's with 5 of his first 7 picks.

Plus it makes you have to pay attention to each D player, not just know the Ravens D is good. But know that Bart Scott is an Animal, Ray Lewis is back to old form, and Chris McAllister while being a great CB will not earn you consistent fantasy points like Gibril Wilson does.

How many other people play IDP in their league and have been glad that you made the switch.

Is it just me that finds Team D to be Busch League?

 

[posty]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

 

[NYCGangGreen]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

 

[code]

When we formed our league 3 years ago I spent more than a month modeling the scoring system based on five years of historical scoring data...then just a week or two before the draft one owner made a really impassioned argument about including "defensive players"...the basis for his argument was (1) if team defense, why not just team offense, or worse just pick a team for the season and (2) more complexity makes fantasy football more fun...so in two days I modeled five years worth of defensive historical data and built an IDP scoring system that rated defensive players at about 80% of offensive players...everyone embraced the changes and now three years later, I couldn't be happier we made the decision...

I too now tend to be of the opinion that Team D is an antiquated idea, born of a lack of individual defensive stats when fatnasty football first took flight...but with today's stats, online management systems, and detailed fantasy information about defensive players, it's a shame if a league doesn't include defensive players in their system...

 

[NYCGangGreen]

When we formed our league 3 years ago I spent more than a month modeling the scoring system based on five years of historical scoring data...then just a week or two before the draft one owner made a really impassioned argument about including "defensive players"...the basis for his argument was (1) if team defense, why not just team offense, or worse just pick a team for the season and (2) more complexity makes fantasy football more fun...so in two days I modeled five years worth of defensive historical data and built an IDP scoring system that rated defensive players at about 80% of offensive players...everyone embraced the changes and now three years later, I couldn't be happier we made the decision...I too now tend to be of the opinion that Team D is an antiquated idea, born of a lack of individual defensive stats when fatnasty football first took flight...but with today's stats, online management systems, and detailed fantasy information about defensive players, it's a shame if a league doesn't include defensive players in their system...

my point also......with the amount of information, stats, realtime scoring these days..it seems historic to still use a team D.Once people make the switch, it is more than worth it. Just imagine how your draft goes when LB's are being taken in the 5-6 round....makes draft strategy and trades much more prominent.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Is it just me that finds Team D to be Busch Bush League?

If you're going to be inflammatory, get the spelling right. One is a beer brand. The other refers to being out in the middle of nowhere in a half-assed baseball league that's run badly.I play in both. I like both. Competition in both types has always been good -- and Team D leagues allow me to play with friends who are not as experianced as I am and don't have the time I do to be here and elsewhere looking at player news.

I think IDP will overtake (if it hasn't already) Team D -- but I don't think one way is the 'right' or 'manly' way to play and the other lame. Just different strokes for different folks. I also prefer Dynasty/Keeper leagues and auctions - but one isn't right or wrong. I'm glad you like how you do it.

Finally, I can't remember anyone ever posting something like "My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137" (although I am sure it's happened on occasion) in the brief time I've been here. So where the aggravation on that front come from, I dunno.

 

[PahtyTom]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

Some people prefer IDP, some don't.Why does it matter to *you* what kind of leagues other people are in?

 

[code]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I understand this argument, that the best defensive player's value is that teams don't throw/run in their direction, therefore reducing their stats and their value in a fantasy system...but I will say that stats like pass defenses and interceptions can be weighted in such a way that big play CB can be high scorers...for what that's worth...

 

[detfan782004]

This is my 6th year of IDP and it is the greatest.

It makes the drafts more interesting and if you fall short in one offensive area you can make it up on D.

12 Team Keeper League that you can start 2 different style packages.

Option 1.

2 DL

2 LB

2 DB

Option 2.

2 DL

1 LB

3 DB

 

[reg]

I have a hard time when i look through some of these postings and see comments like..."My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137."C'mon, if you all are such FF fans and obviously spend so much time on sites like this...Do yourself a favor, and UPGRADE TO IDP!!!!!!!!!I have no respect for Team D leagues, they are in my eyes the most generic form of this game. IDP has been in my league for 5 years now, and every year we add more of them.2 DL, 3 LB, 3DB....it helps to take away the "advantage" of a guy who drafts RB's with 5 of his first 7 picks.Plus it makes you have to pay attention to each D player, not just know the Ravens D is good. But know that Bart Scott is an Animal, Ray Lewis is back to old form, and Chris McAllister while being a great CB will not earn you consistent fantasy points like Gibril Wilson does.How many other people play IDP in their league and have been glad that you made the switch.Is it just me that finds Team D to be Busch League?

There are different leagues for everyone. No need to bash on the people that do not care for IDP leagues. Unless you are or just want to be flamed.

 

[code]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

Some people prefer IDP, some don't.Why does it matter to *you* what kind of leagues other people are in?

I think maybe the tone is wrong, but the sentiment is interesting (which is the reason I posted about our experience)...I suspect there are many people that don't use IDP simply because they don't really understand it or the opportunities it presents...sure, NYCGangGreen could probably pick a more persuasive tone, but the general notion that Team D is antiquated and there are better options out there is one that could generate some fruitful discussion...

 

[PahtyTom]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I understand this argument, that the best defensive player's value is that teams don't throw/run in their direction, therefore reducing their stats and their value in a fantasy system...but I will say that stats like pass defenses and interceptions can be weighted in such a way that big play CB can be high scorers...for what that's worth...

True, but what happens when a team doesn't throw at Champ all game like Sunday night? He turns into a boom or bust player, when in reality he is anything but. I realize that even offensive players are not always accurately depicted in the fantasy world in relation to their performance on the real field, but IDP maximizes this fault IMO. Team D rewards Champ for doing his job well, just as it does everyone else. And vice versa. I think Team D is very accurate in terms of the play on the field in relation to the fantasy world.

 

[Aaronstory]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

Kind of like how RB's are much more valuable than the most important position on the offense?

 

[GregR_2]

I have a hard time when i look through some of these postings and see comments like..."My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137."C'mon, if you all are such FF fans and obviously spend so much time on sites like this...Do yourself a favor, and UPGRADE TO IDP!!!!!!!!!I have no respect for Team D leagues, they are in my eyes the most generic form of this game. IDP has been in my league for 5 years now, and every year we add more of them.2 DL, 3 LB, 3DB....it helps to take away the "advantage" of a guy who drafts RB's with 5 of his first 7 picks.Plus it makes you have to pay attention to each D player, not just know the Ravens D is good. But know that Bart Scott is an Animal, Ray Lewis is back to old form, and Chris McAllister while being a great CB will not earn you consistent fantasy points like Gibril Wilson does.How many other people play IDP in their league and have been glad that you made the switch.Is it just me that finds Team D to be Busch League?

Do you think maybe going over the positives of IDPs without being insulting towards leagues who aren't using them would have maybe made them a little more receptive to the idea?

 

[PahtyTom]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

Kind of like how RB's are much more valuable than the most important position on the offense?

I know, but at least the values within a position are more accuarte. For example, Champ Bailey is worth less than Charles Woodson for DBs. That's like Kevin Jones being worth more than LT.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

This is working just how i hoped.

By being "nice" about it people glance over it and a good discussion is never started.

I didn't mean to be insulting, but i knew with a tone of "arrogance" it would spark the emotion in people and actually get a dialogue going.

I just want to see how many people use IDP as opposed to Team D. And this helps to have people voice their true opinion.

Being as my league started with team D years back, i understand the process of it, it's just with the seriousness some people here also have about this type of thing, i would have thought that IDP would be prominent in most leagues by now.

I also agree that Dynasty/Keeper leagues are much more enjoyable than re-drafts. Makes trades for players and draft picks something of merit. And it keeps you in touch year round with what is happening to free agents and such. No more drafting from cheatsheets printed in May in the Magazines.

I just wanted to spark a topic that i was sure almost everyone has an opinion on and see where it goes.

I think everyone here has great things to say for the most part and just like to hear what they are.

 

[code]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I understand this argument, that the best defensive player's value is that teams don't throw/run in their direction, therefore reducing their stats and their value in a fantasy system...but I will say that stats like pass defenses and interceptions can be weighted in such a way that big play CB can be high scorers...for what that's worth...

True, but what happens when a team doesn't throw at Champ all game like Sunday night? He turns into a boom or bust player, when in reality he is anything but. I realize that even offensive players are not always accurately depicted in the fantasy world in relation to their performance on the real field, but IDP maximizes this fault IMO. Team D rewards Champ for doing his job well, just as it does everyone else. And vice versa. I think Team D is very accurate in terms of the play on the field in relation to the fantasy world.

The same argument could be made for Team WRs...if a WR1 is so superior that he draws double or even triple coverage and therefore gets only a few targets in a game, his fantasy stats dip relative to the value he had in the game...or Team RB, or Team TE, etc...or how about run-oriented teams that are defensed with 9 in the box opening up the passing game, or vice versa?...At a certain point we all have to agree that it's fantasy and the statistics all have a degree of error where fantasy value is incongruent with football value...otherwise, as I said, you should just pick an entire NFL team where their performance in fantasy terms can be directly tied to their performance as a football team...Don't get me wrong, I understand the argument and I realize the value skew can be more extreme in IDP, but to me this isn't a sufficient deficiency of IDP to give up the advantages...

 

[PahtyTom]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I understand this argument, that the best defensive player's value is that teams don't throw/run in their direction, therefore reducing their stats and their value in a fantasy system...but I will say that stats like pass defenses and interceptions can be weighted in such a way that big play CB can be high scorers...for what that's worth...

True, but what happens when a team doesn't throw at Champ all game like Sunday night? He turns into a boom or bust player, when in reality he is anything but. I realize that even offensive players are not always accurately depicted in the fantasy world in relation to their performance on the real field, but IDP maximizes this fault IMO. Team D rewards Champ for doing his job well, just as it does everyone else. And vice versa. I think Team D is very accurate in terms of the play on the field in relation to the fantasy world.

The same argument could be made for Team WRs...if a WR1 is so superior that he draws double or even triple coverage and therefore gets only a few targets in a game, his fantasy stats dip relative to the value he had in the game...or Team RB, or Team TE, etc...or how about run-oriented teams that are defensed with 9 in the box opening up the passing game, or vice versa?...At a certain point we all have to agree that it's fantasy and the statistics all have a degree of error where fantasy value is incongruent with football value...otherwise, as I said, you should just pick an entire NFL team where their performance in fantasy terms can be directly tied to their performance as a football team...Don't get me wrong, I understand the argument and I realize the value skew can be more extreme in IDP, but to me this isn't a sufficient deficiency of IDP to give up the advantages...

Good points, and I just would like to say that my main league was originally IDP and it was definitely fun. But, about 5 years ago we made the switch over to Team D because of some of the things I mentioned.

I realize the value skew can be more extreme in IDP, but to me this isn't a sufficient deficiency of IDP to give up the advantages

Agree to disagree on this one I guess, because I feel like it is a significant enough deficiency to not use IDP.

 

[Chreesto]

I am in leagues that use IDP and it is OK BUT my favorite league is a scoring only, team D league. There is something really awesome about being able to know your score just listening to the game on the radio. What if the internet were down?

To me the most pure and enjoyable fantasy football format is scoring only with Team D. I don't accept the notion that more complexity makes the game more fun. You can ridicule that style all you want but it will have no effect on my preference. I'm seriously considering cutting down to 1 league next year and it will be the one without IDP.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I have no respect for Team D leagues,

I have no respect for people who assume the way they like things is the only right way to do things.

 

[Tommy Collins]

I can't see a TD only league moving from Team D to IDP

 

[NYCGangGreen]

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I have no respect for Team D leagues,

I have no respect for people who assume the way they like things is the only right way to do things.

If you would have kept reading, i go on to explain I did this to provoke responses from people to get the dialogue going. It's the D'Angelo Hall / Steve Smith theory.

 

[Robbie Cooper]

In the one league that I commish, we vote every year on whether or not to switch from team D to IDP. Every year it gets shot down 9-1.But mostly we don't switch to IDP just to spite NYCGangGreen.

 

[downsouth]

switched 2 years ago in my 16-team keeper league. start 1/1/1/flex. handled it well. then i got a bit excited and joined a 32-team redraft league where we start 2/3/2/flex. 8 IDPs a week to start is insane when everyone drafts 4/4/4. (do the math) i'm learning a lot, but i do welcome the simple side team defense leagues as a break.

 

[Bertha]

I like Team Def simply for the minor wildcard effect they throw into the whole mix. No need to multiply that 5X with IDPs.

 

[downsouth]

and to address the whole idea of the good defensive players being worth less because they don't get thrown on and the scrub guys get the high points, see the offensive likes of chris henry and TJ as a parallel to scrub guys getting points because the stud (CJ) gets double teamed all day. same shiot in my opinion.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I have no respect for Team D leagues,

I have no respect for people who assume the way they like things is the only right way to do things.

If you would have kept reading, i go on to explain I did this to provoke responses from people to get the dialogue going. It's the D'Angelo Hall / Steve Smith theory.

So you are trolling. I see. I have no respect for trolls either.

 

[Jene Bramel]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I like Team Def simply for the minor wildcard effect they throw into the whole mix. No need to multiply that 5X with IDPs.

IDP leagues will always have to swim upstream against views like this -- "IDP leagues award poor play, IDP leagues are a crapshoot". If you work your scoring system correctly, they absolutely do not and are not in relation to offensive positions. Many shutdown corners won't have good value because they're horrible in run support, many defensive tackles (nose tackles in particular) have little value because they aren't visible in the box score. Nearly every issue can be taken care of by system and scoring. Was Troy Aikman more valuable to his NFL team than fantasy team. Yep. Ricky Proehl? Kevin Faulk? The list goes on...This'll come off more condescending than it should but it's not intended to be in any way. Don't knock IDP leagues because shutdown corners don't score or because Joe LB gets tackles because he sucks and his team sucks. Sure, that happens. Happens to every position, offense and defense. There are scoring blemishes in every league -- football is more of a team sport than nearly every other sport that lends itself to statistics. But if you take the time to understand defensive football and how it affects fantasy production, you can tailor your league to how you want a given class of player to score. You can make Champ Bailey a stud or Shawne Merriman or nearly any other player valuable with the right tweaks.Some folks have no desire to make the extra effort an shark IDP owner must make. And that's totally cool. IDP isn't for everybody. But I firmly believe true football junkies, not folks who watch the quarterback take the snap and follow the ball but those who really get into the game, will really enjoy a competitive IDP league if they have the time to give it a legitimate chance.Oh, and BTW, Champ Bailey (career stats) was the 10th overall DB by FBG IDP scoring last season...Edited for readability...

 

[NoFBinLA]

Finally, I can't remember anyone ever posting something like "My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137" (although I am sure it's happened on occasion) in the brief time I've been here. So where the aggravation on that front come from, I dunno.

I found the thread I think you (the OP) were referring to.I stand corrected. That's incredible.Please resume the discussion....I will say I have found that you can build a quality IDP crew off the waiver wire - but you need a good solid core in the draft.It's a challenge no doubt - and sometimes a dude comes in with a couple of big plays that skew the view and all that, but overall, I think you win with consistent play, not streaky play. IMO.

 

[PahtyTom]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I like Team Def simply for the minor wildcard effect they throw into the whole mix. No need to multiply that 5X with IDPs.

IDP leagues will always have to swim upstream against views like this -- "IDP leagues award poor play, IDP leagues are a crapshoot". If you work your scoring system correctly, they absolutely do not and are not in relation to offensive positions. Many shutdown corners won't have good value because they're horrible in run support, many defensive tackles (nose tackles in particular) have little value because they aren't visible in the box score. Nearly every issue can be taken care of by system and scoring. Was Troy Aikman more valuable to his NFL team than fantasy team. Yep. Ricky Proehl? Kevin Faulk? The list goes on...This'll come off more condescending than it should but it's not intended to be in any way. Don't knock IDP leagues because shutdown corners don't score or because Joe LB gets tackles because he sucks and his team sucks. Sure, that happens. Happens to every position, offense and defense. There are scoring blemishes in every league -- football is more of a team sport than nearly every other sport that lends itself to statistics. But if you take the time to understand defensive football and how it affects fantasy production, you can tailor your league to how you want a given class of player to score. You can make Champ Bailey a stud or Shawne Merriman or nearly any other player valuable with the right tweaks.Some folks have no desire to make the extra effort an shark IDP owner must make. And that's totally cool. IDP isn't for everybody. But I firmly believe true football junkies, not folks who watch the quarterback take the snap and follow the ball but those who really get into the game, will really enjoy a competitive IDP league if they have the time to give it a legitimate chance.Oh, and BTW, Champ Bailey (career stats) was the 10th overall DB by FBG IDP scoring last season...Edited for readability...

Yes it happens at every position, but with IDP it happens to a more exaggerated extent. That's not good. And as far as tweaks go, what kind of tweaks do you make when a team simply won't throw a ball to Champ Bailey's side of the field? He could play his best possible game of the year, and get you 0 points. It makes him boom or bust, but doesn't even properly score his games because many of his best games won't be credited as such because he didn't have any passes thrown his way to defend or intercept. But all those arguments have been made and refuted in this thread if you have read it already.Football junkies who are also fantasy football sharks have given IDP a legit chance and prefer Team D. Football junkies who are also fantasy football sharks have given IDP a legit chance and prefer IDP. It doesn't make you more or less of a football junkie or fantasy shark to have a different opinion than the next guy.

I firmly believe true football junkies, not folks who watch the quarterback take the snap and follow the ball but those who really get into the game, will really enjoy a competitive IDP league

Possibly, but Team D credits the guys in the trenches and everyone else impacting a play, and the entire game in general, more than IDP ever can IMO.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Yes it happens at every position, but with IDP it happens to a more exaggerated extent. That's not good. And as far as tweaks go, what kind of tweaks do you make when a team simply won't throw a ball to Champ Bailey's side of the field? He could play his best possible game of the year, and get you 0 points. It makes him boom or bust, but doesn't even properly score his games because many of his best games won't be credited as such because he didn't have any passes thrown his way to defend or intercept. But all those arguments have been made and refuted in this thread if you have read it already.Possibly, but Team D credits the guys in the trenches and everyone else impacting a play, and the entire game in general, more than IDP ever can IMO.

I read the thread.Tweaks? Make passes defended and INT worth more than tackles. Force teams to start two corners in their starting lineup. Bailey would become a top 10-15 player in both situations, inconsistency or not. Nobody drafts Vonnie Holliday in your league? Split DT into a separate position and bump the tackle points for that position.What do you do when the Packers don't re-sign Brett Favre's stud OL? What do you do when the Pats hold 13 mil of cap space and give him Doug Gabriel to throw to? What do you do when Jason Witten has to stay in and block because the RTs for the Cowboys are terrible? What do you do when Randy Moss has Aaron Brooks behind a HS offensive line to throw him the ball? You downgrade them and take the inconsistency that goes with the situation. Don't think Hines Ward played a helluva game last week against the Bengals with a pittance in the boxscore? I strongly beg to differ. The inconsistency of stud argument being greater with IDP just doesn't wash.What do you do with Lorenzo Neal? Tony Richardson? How are you valuing Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson in your league? Pro Bowl talents on the waiver wire in your league or not even accounted for at all I'd wager. The notion that the most valuable NFL offensive players are more likely rostered and valued than defensive players is absolutely not true either.It goes both ways.I'm in a league right now where some of the most valuable players include the league's best defensive tackles and cornerbacks. It's possible. I'm not dismissing your arguments out of hand, they exist. But to say that they don't exist on the offensive side of the ball or are disproportionate to offensive fantasy leagues is wrong.And, as I said, I get that some junkies aren't into IDP. If you believe that team defenses are a better way to account for defensive play, that's cool. I have a hard time taking (in my current league that scores points allowed and yardage allowed proportionate to turnovers and sacks) the #14 ranked Atlanta Falcons defense over the #29 ranked Carolina Panther defense if I'm starting my NFL locker room from scratch though.I'm not trying to change your mind necessarily. I'm just passionate about IDP. Good discussion. Thanks.

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I like Team Def simply for the minor wildcard effect they throw into the whole mix. No need to multiply that 5X with IDPs.

IDP leagues will always have to swim upstream against views like this -- "IDP leagues award poor play, IDP leagues are a crapshoot". If you work your scoring system correctly, they absolutely do not and are not in relation to offensive positions. Many shutdown corners won't have good value because they're horrible in run support, many defensive tackles (nose tackles in particular) have little value because they aren't visible in the box score. Nearly every issue can be taken care of by system and scoring. Was Troy Aikman more valuable to his NFL team than fantasy team. Yep. Ricky Proehl? Kevin Faulk? The list goes on...This'll come off more condescending than it should but it's not intended to be in any way. Don't knock IDP leagues because shutdown corners don't score or because Joe LB gets tackles because he sucks and his team sucks. Sure, that happens. Happens to every position, offense and defense. There are scoring blemishes in every league -- football is more of a team sport than nearly every other sport that lends itself to statistics. But if you take the time to understand defensive football and how it affects fantasy production, you can tailor your league to how you want a given class of player to score. You can make Champ Bailey a stud or Shawne Merriman or nearly any other player valuable with the right tweaks.Some folks have no desire to make the extra effort an shark IDP owner must make. And that's totally cool. IDP isn't for everybody. But I firmly believe true football junkies, not folks who watch the quarterback take the snap and follow the ball but those who really get into the game, will really enjoy a competitive IDP league if they have the time to give it a legitimate chance.Oh, and BTW, Champ Bailey (career stats) was the 10th overall DB by FBG IDP scoring last season...Edited for readability...

 

[Chaos Commish]

And, as I said, I get that some junkies aren't into IDP.

Meh, they just think they're junkies.

 

[code]

I'm not dismissing your arguments out of hand, they exist. But to say that they don't exist on the offensive side of the ball or are disproportionate to offensive fantasy leagues is wrong.

Sounds like Jene and I are on the same page on this one

 

[BassNBrew]

Penned an article on this a couple of years ago for FBG.com. I developed an IDP lite league that really ups the strategy without lengthing the draft or the complexity of IDP. We start one DL, one LB, and one DB. The kicker is they come from your defense on your roster that you're not starting. Everyone takes two Ds. Each week you pick one to start as a team D and then you select your 3 IDPs from the other defense. The possible stratagies are endless. For example, sometimes a bad defense becomes very valuable because they have some stat hounds. We also allow lineup changes until kickoff so you can base your IDP selections on how you're doing v. your opponent.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

Kind of like how RB's are much more valuable than the most important position on the offense?

I know, but at least the values within a position are more accuarte. For example, Champ Bailey is worth less than Charles Woodson for DBs. That's like Kevin Jones being worth more than LT.

Not sure what you're smoking, Charles woodson is and has always been worthless in IDP leagues. The top DBS are pretty much Gibril Wilson, Polomolu & Adrian Wilson. I know what you're saying, just had to point out Woodson stinks for IDP and isn't even rostered usually. Bailey is avoided, so is D. Hall and if you get tackle points then they're not worth much at all, I really don't know ho you could make Bailey a worthwhile player, he needs to make actual plays that have stats for it to work, being avoided all day doesn't get him much.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

Kind of like how RB's are much more valuable than the most important position on the offense?

I know, but at least the values within a position are more accuarte. For example, Champ Bailey is worth less than Charles Woodson for DBs. That's like Kevin Jones being worth more than LT.

Not sure what you're smoking, Charles woodson is and has always been worthless in IDP leagues. The top DBS are pretty much Gibril Wilson, Polomolu & Adrian Wilson. I know what you're saying, just had to point out Woodson stinks for IDP and isn't even rostered usually. Bailey is avoided, so is D. Hall and if you get tackle points then they're not worth much at all, I really don't know ho you could make Bailey a worthwhile player, he needs to make actual plays that have stats for it to work, being avoided all day doesn't get him much.

Just read Jene's post, mentioned Passes defended and mandatory CB, makes perfect sense. Maybe try a league out like that?

 

[stevegamer]

I definitely prefer IDP leagues. I also like my leagues with a big IDP playing roster: 11 is best I think.

However, in my only non-dynasty league, we've had issues with players wanting to replace a kicker pre-week 1 becuase he's out (Vanderjagt, Vinatieri) so we almost went team PK to fix the problem of guys drafting guys who are hurt with no backups. It was followed up with a team QB idea, which starts to get into the where you have drafted Team QB, PK, & ST/D - why not team TE, WR, & RB as well.

It might be interesting with all team positions, start 1 of each & 2-3 flex basically the draft would be 16 rounds for a 12 team league, there's no waivers because the entire NFL is rostered, and you go from there.

 

[trader jake]

Good postings in this thread Jene.

A league should be fun and if owners have more fun using team D/ST more power to them. I love IDP and wouldn't be in a league without it.

I could be in a league without kickers though.

 

[Super King]

joined a IDP dynasty league (post-initial draft) 5 years ago. got to say, i love it. it makes you know every NFL team inside and out. its nice knowing that youre down 15 pts going into a monday night game, and have two defensive players going that could win you youre game, instead of just being done.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

joined a IDP dynasty league (post-initial draft) 5 years ago. got to say, i love it. it makes you know every NFL team inside and out. its nice knowing that youre down 15 pts going into a monday night game, and have two defensive players going that could win you youre game, instead of just being done.

Agreed.....i prefer to know who the backup CB is on the weak side on a team, maybe I am just a fanatic...Team defenses are fine for introductions to FF to me. It's just that i think most leagues, if they switch, would eventually see the true challenge that IDP brings into it.And as for guys like Champ not being worth anything, i think thats crazy.We have points for Pass Def., Int. Forced Fum. Fumble Rec. and all these add to a star CB or "Shutdown Corner" being worth as much as a LB like Vilma or Merriman.I do know it's not for everyone, it can make it a little to complex...but if yor league has been a stagnant competition for a few years now, by adding IDP it makes everyone start at square 1 again.Either way you play....I'm a fan of FF. I am just a big fan of IDP ever since we switched, and think that most would agree when/if they do.But good luck to everyone in their leagues....unless you are in mine....Then i hope you lose every game you ever play!!!!

 

[posty]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

Some people prefer IDP, some don't.Why does it matter to *you* what kind of leagues other people are in?

So GangGreen, do you use punters and OL as well?

 

[PahtyTom]

There are some great arguments and suggestions in this thread by everyone. I just want to make a few things clear about what I stated earlier.

1. I understand that you can make a player like Champ Bailey as valuable over the course of a season as anyone with the right tweaks. BUT, the fact that he can affect a game so much by shutting down almost half the field for the whole game and influencing an offense to not even throw to his side and not get any credit for it does not seem right. I know the weeks that he has an int for a TD or 4 passes defended can make up for it over the course of a year, but I don't think it accurately depicts what is going on in the game every week if some weeks he gets you 0 eventhough he has affected it more than almost anyone else in the league could. I understand things like this happen on offense with guys like offensive linemen and what not, but you're never going to say "Wow LT just played one of the best games a running back can play this year" and then look at the fantasy score board and see a zero. Over the course of a season Champ Bailey can have a ton of fantasy points with some scoring tweaks, but on a given week his performance on the field and his fantasy score can be so so SO far off that I don't think it is good.

2. I think that those drastic situations are disproportionately associated with the defensive side of fantasy football more so than the offensive side. Because of that, I believe Team D is a more accurate representation of what is going on out there on that side of the ball.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

Some people prefer IDP, some don't.Why does it matter to *you* what kind of leagues other people are in?

So GangGreen, do you use punters and OL as well?

Overall rushing yds vs. Sacks allowed.Punters no....thats just silly

 

[NoFBinLA]

Thanks for your opinion that I do not care about...

I take it your a cheesy Team D kind of guy Mr.Velveeta!

Some people prefer IDP, some don't.Why does it matter to *you* what kind of leagues other people are in?

So GangGreen, do you use punters and OL as well?

Overall rushing yds vs. Sacks allowed.Punters no....thats just silly

I know a league that uses punters. And the scoring is INSANE for them.

 

[The Gator]

I have a hard time when i look through some of these postings and see comments like..."My Sleeper pick was the Atlanta D at pick 137."C'mon, if you all are such FF fans and obviously spend so much time on sites like this...Do yourself a favor, and UPGRADE TO IDP!!!!!!!!!I have no respect for Team D leagues, they are in my eyes the most generic form of this game. IDP has been in my league for 5 years now, and every year we add more of them.2 DL, 3 LB, 3DB....it helps to take away the "advantage" of a guy who drafts RB's with 5 of his first 7 picks.Plus it makes you have to pay attention to each D player, not just know the Ravens D is good. But know that Bart Scott is an Animal, Ray Lewis is back to old form, and Chris McAllister while being a great CB will not earn you consistent fantasy points like Gibril Wilson does.How many other people play IDP in their league and have been glad that you made the switch.Is it just me that finds Team D to be Busch League?

Next step, split up CB/S. That way you can compair Wilson to other S, not to a CB.

 

[The Gator]

When we formed our league 3 years ago I spent more than a month modeling the scoring system based on five years of historical scoring data...then just a week or two before the draft one owner made a really impassioned argument about including "defensive players"...the basis for his argument was (1) if team defense, why not just team offense, or worse just pick a team for the season and (2) more complexity makes fantasy football more fun...so in two days I modeled five years worth of defensive historical data and built an IDP scoring system that rated defensive players at about 80% of offensive players...everyone embraced the changes and now three years later, I couldn't be happier we made the decision...I too now tend to be of the opinion that Team D is an antiquated idea, born of a lack of individual defensive stats when fatnasty football first took flight...but with today's stats, online management systems, and detailed fantasy information about defensive players, it's a shame if a league doesn't include defensive players in their system...

 

[The Gator]

IDP is fine and all, but until a guy like Champ Bailey has some value over scrubs who get thrown on all day and make garbage tackles I'm not buying into it.

It is not just the player. It is the system. The same way NFL GM's go after guys that fit their system. Ronde Barber, for example, is one of the better CB's in the league. He is consistantly one of the highest scoring CB's in my league (#2,#4,#1 last three years.)

 

[The Gator]

I dont like IDP because it is counter-intuitive."Joe Linebacker" gets a lot of tackles. Why does he get a lot of tackles? Because the D sucks and they are on the field all day.So he gets points for letting the other team march down the field.I will pass.

I understand what you mean, that is why I like the big play leagues. Where a sack/int is 4x a tackle. This helps the real playmakers get their due points.Top LB's the last three year in our scoring, Mike Peterson, Ray Lewis, Donnie Edwards. All not on bad defenses.